The Power of The Dog with Richard Lawson

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the neighborhood's shy with Blank Check How come you don't wear gloves? Uh, how about cause they're not needed?

[00:00:26] Castrate 1500 podcast that nicked your thumb on the last. Hard to do him. You need more gravel. I'm trying to think. But it's like it's nasally, but then he's got my banjo. No, I can't do it. It's really it right it to him, right? Can I try?

[00:00:44] I can't even hear I am an American cowboy. Is that it? Did I get it? Well, this is what's weird about him is that he's grumbly in this, but he also does his cumberbatch. I'm hitting American vowels too hard, right?

[00:00:57] I'm like, there's like a little bit of the like Nicholson, but then it's a southern thing. And then you get it sort of works. Oddly, it totally works because master stroke of casting.

[00:01:07] You think he's doing a bit of a performance and that's why he's so perfect for this film. Yeah. Yeah, and by other things like Doctor Strange are you're like, I don't mind this, but something's off like or whatever.

[00:01:21] I don't because I don't want to fucking talk about Marvel movies and can be an episode, but I just want to get this out of the way because I had this thought while rewatching this movie.

[00:01:31] I feel like we've talked about this David what that's like you're like, oh, he's so much better in Infinity War as Doctor Strange than he is the other movies as Doctor Strange and it's because the one that's the one movie that Robert Downey Jr.

[00:01:46] Is also in so he is fully relieved of being fucking Downey Jr. Snarkster. Yeah, I mean quickly. Oh, yeah, right, right. Yeah. And watching this I'm just like if he could have brought some more of this fucking menace. Yeah, I like like I like the doctor.

[00:02:03] Strange is like this arrogant prick and I know but those movies have to have some quotient like but the audience needs to like him because these are movies about you know, right people to root for get to the bar Billy.

[00:02:13] I mean that but that's that's why I'm like this guy Phil the longer you watch this movie you do start to develop weird sympathy for him. Oh completely. Cobra bratches a skilled enough actor that I think you could pull that off.

[00:02:25] But it just feels like Marvel is terrified of the calculation of like I was hoping after Infinity War they'd be like, you know what bright he doesn't need the jokes. It works his fucking moment holding up the finger him showing the tenderness whatever all of that works and

[00:02:37] then fucking like Spider-Man No Way Home. It's like man. Bam Scooby-Doo is a pampy and pampy and pampy and I agree with you that but maybe in the new in the movie than the new one. That's where I'm so Henry in the multiverse of madness. Correct.

[00:02:51] Brought what if Bronco Henry shows up? That would be good. I want like Bronco hair Henry variants. I want like six front. I think that's who Bill Murray is playing in the third Ant-Man movie. Maybe a small tiny tiny brother got that he's in that.

[00:03:04] I'm just imagining a portal opening and then like a lasso coming out. He's like what who's this now? I knew he was in that because I was listening to your Ghostbusters watch. Right? What if but wait, what if other kind of branches so you have Phil you Sherlock?

[00:03:21] He comes out with like a Blackberry or whatever Julian Assange Julian Assange Brexit man. Mr. Brexit you have Patrick Melrose. He's in a tub. I mean you obviously have fucking Alan Turing. Yeah, Alan Turing molester from Atonement besting computers the molester from Atonement. What's the character from Augusta?

[00:03:47] Oh God little little Charles Charles. He's Tom Thomas Edison Thomas Edison comes out as that with a light bulb or whatever today. We call it electricity and he can be both World War one characters from 1917

[00:04:02] and war horse Wow, too distinct but fairly similar kind of very very different very captains or whatever. Yeah smog smog con con con. He's played a lot of people David. I don't know we were talking about Pentecostal branches and he didn't play

[00:04:20] Connie played you're trying to remember the John Harrison. There you go. John Harrison. What about the Grinch? Oh, yes, it's me the Grinch. I hate Christmas apparently. He's never I'll never ever. I know I've been so many minutes of this podcast.

[00:04:37] I will never get over that the voice he did apparently. I am the Grinch. The young Matthew Morrison. Remember that guy? He's pit of the younger the famous Prime Minister in Amazing Grace apparently a really cumberbatch role. Okay, and of course sheer Khan from Andy circuses Mowgli.

[00:04:59] What's the subtitle on that movie? Jungle of the Dark Legend of the Jungle pretty lame pretty lame. Apparently he played Stephen Hawking in a TV movie. Yes, you know what? He talks about that a lot beat to Redman to the punch on this.

[00:05:14] Yeah, I watched about half of that thing. He's crazy good in them good and he's talked about that. He was like, this is it. This is the role that makes an actor's career and his career didn't go anywhere.

[00:05:24] And he had like a lot of resentment of like I fucking nailed Stephen Hawking. No one noticed. Yeah, and then like 10 years later the guy wins the Oscar for but thankfully he was he was very well established at that point the beats cumberbatch that year.

[00:05:39] I know right is the same year, right? Still I think if I think it Redman had won for playing Hawking before cumberbatch had even gotten nominated or had even more experience success, right? I'm sorry. Yeah, we're just doing a bit of a cumberbatch. We have to look.

[00:05:56] I just want to say this is a blank check the Christian David. I think read me. I'm David. I think Redman is the worst. We're going to go back to those nominees. Sure. Oh sure. That's I of those five. I think I put him last.

[00:06:07] I know you I think that was my was that 2014 2014. That was my first Toronto and I walked out of the premiere and I was like he's winning the Oscar and everyone was like Michael Keaton and Birdman is coming up and I was right.

[00:06:18] So yeah, yeah, you were right Redman cumberbatch. I think cumberbatch is good in the imitation game. I don't think that movie is particularly I think never liked him in anything until power the dog. Wow, really? Yeah, let me get the fucking name of the podcast out because we're

[00:06:32] going to talk about cumberbatch for like an hour. We have to an hour. Let's let's try and keep this episode. This is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I did we did do that. I know but then you interrupted it with the Redman thing.

[00:06:42] That has to be a how dare I interrupt the power of the flow. Yeah, okay, and this is a podcast. Well, no, I have to start over again. Now. This is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

[00:06:52] It's a podcast about filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks and make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bark baby. Boing. I said bark. Barf. Barf. Arf. Arf. Yeah.

[00:07:08] This is a mini series on the films of Jane Campion. It's called the podcastiano. The last time you're going to do that. Boof. I guess maybe you'll do it on China Girl. Oh sure, but that may be come out before this. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:21] Say we're talking power of the dog her most recent film a film that is at the time we're recording this consider the front runner winner best picture. It certainly got the most nominations to be a little bit undefeatable for best director.

[00:07:37] I think so early, but I think she could win three Oscars. Yeah, I think so too. She I would call her the front runner in all those category. There also used to be the thing of like the Oscars like to

[00:07:47] share the love they like to spread it around and recently we've had more of the like in Iraq to long June ho Chloe Zhao yeah where it's like they just let you win all of them. Yeah, why not?

[00:08:00] How one three maybe I guess she won two did someone else screenplay adapted? Yes went to the father. Okay, so she won two. Yeah, but wasn't she nominated for editing as well because that was such a you know, she's nominated for the Eternals

[00:08:13] that maybe that's what you're thinking of Fred right, but she was nominated for best director of the Eternals. Yeah, she was nominated for editing and lost to course to Sound of Metal. Oh, which is a good one.

[00:08:24] Oh, yeah, it's it is funny how much a year a year out now. It just feels like those Oscars kind of didn't exist. They feel bad for like especially Daniel Julia and it's like, oh no one remembers.

[00:08:36] I feel bad for like Lauren Holt getting hired on SNL in the covid season. Yeah, where I'm just like you had you did but it also kind of right. It's a weird Oscars because I think the winners are largely

[00:08:51] good, but you're right that they're sort of weird asterisk Oscars. Yeah, and they always will be right and they're just like people didn't watch them. I mean it was I look I knew when Nomadland came out, but it was staggering to see the number repeated of like, oh

[00:09:09] it did 3.4 million dollars like I understand. But yes, very weird this year. It does feel like Power of the Dog alone. It feels like has been watched by more of the general public than the movies nominated last year.

[00:09:26] Well when it first came out on Netflix, it was like in that top 10 like for a while, which was really surprising. Have you more traction than you might have predicted? Like it's because it's got a big star in it.

[00:09:36] It had the marriage story thing where you're like, well, this is a movie for the coastal elites and then like Netflix at large took to it more than you would imagine. Or memes, there were Bronco Henry memes. That's what I'm saying much like the punch in the wall.

[00:09:48] It was like it fucking worked. Have you guys settled on Bronco Hosley by the way? Is that I think it has to be and I think that's it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, because Power of the Haas is too obvious.

[00:09:57] Well, I mean you know, it's Bronco Hosley. Okay. Yeah, I'm mysterious. Tell me the other Ben says with his Invisalign. Tell me the other two nominees that year and Cumberbatch is on the other. I'm trying to remember. So this is rudely, Ray finds my winner is snubbed. Same.

[00:10:14] My winner too. Is this the same year as The Lobster or not? No, it's the year before. The year before. The year before The Lobster I guess. Yeah. Because I remember that you and I talked about how weird it

[00:10:22] was that Colin Farrell didn't get in because it was a week five. Oh, I think I know who it is. Can I guess? Yeah, of course. Steve Carell. Steve Carell for Foxcatcher and a performance. I don't like by an actor.

[00:10:32] I don't like that performance that much but I think I'll still take it. I like it. Channing Tatum the co-director of Power of the Dog, right? He's better in Foxcatcher than Steve Carell is. I agree with that. Absolutely, I would have given him the lead actor nomination.

[00:10:45] I would have put Ray Fiennes in there and then who's the fifth person? Was it a Best Picture nominee or not? It was. It was David says with his fingers intertwined. I'll tell you another fact, but then you'll just know.

[00:10:58] Okay, this person has been nominated for nine Academy Awards. So it's a Denzel. Nope. What? Who's been nominated for nine Academy Awards and yet in my opinion has been treated fairly rudely by the Oscars. So he's clearly won before. Nope. Nine noms, zero wins. Lead actor. Nine noms.

[00:11:20] Now, I think two of those noms are producing. Oh, is it a Cooper year? It's a Bradley Cooper. Is it American Sniper? Yeah. Okay. Oh, well, I forgot that one for good reason. He has nine Oscar nominations. Now, it's actually three or four producing.

[00:11:39] Okay, so it's Nightmare Alley, Joker, American Sniper, and the fourth one is Star is Born. Right. And then also Screenplay for Star is Born and then four acting nominations. Right. So it's the three David O. Russell's and American Sniper. Correct. No, two David O.

[00:11:55] Russell's, Star is Born, and American Sniper. Sorry. Sorry. And yet I'm like, fucking Cooper is missing three noms here. You know, like I'm looking at and obviously no trophy. Right. Right. You're like best director for Star is Born. Licorice Pizza. Licorice Pizza supporting actor.

[00:12:12] Maybe that's it, but I don't know. Maybe there's another nom I want to slip in for him. Gotta think about it. Burnt. Burnt. He did. Supporting actor in The Mule. Great. Great performance. Hmm. Supporting actor in Joy. Supporting actor in War Dogs. Not bad performances.

[00:12:30] No, not at all. But no, beyond that, the weird thing of like they're now treating him like young Spielberg where they're like, yeah, okay, we get that you're good. Right. We'll give you nominations sometimes and no wins. Like the weird kind of chip on their shoulder.

[00:12:46] They seem to have about him. I don't know. Or as an actor, they're also sort of treating him like Dustin Hoffman or Pacino or someone where they're like, you'll fucking wait. You give it a rest. You'll wait and you'll like acting.

[00:12:58] And you'll win for something that's like not by any means your best. Right, you'll win when you play right Mr. Sad in Mr. Sad, the Mr. Sad story. I don't know. What's that about? It's a real sad guy. Sad story.

[00:13:10] We should add that to the blank check picture slate. I mean, anyway, he was nominated. I like, I think that his performance in American Super is excellent. I do too. That was actually the one that kind of turned me around.

[00:13:21] I used to be kind of a Cooper skeptic and that one. I was like, I wouldn't have bought this guy as this and no good. No, I love that movie, but that's a weird five though. Look talking about weird. I think I put Redmayne last.

[00:13:35] I guess I put Keaton first. I don't love any of those performances. No, you know my Keaton. We all know Keaton is my guy. And my take on Birdman has always been that he is fundamentally miscast in that movie. He is. I don't like I think Birdman's not.

[00:13:52] Birdman's a doo-doo movie and people get angry when we say this. How dare we? Well, because well inferred I get maybe in David and I our case is that because we're critics were supposed to be like well, we're sure you're mad because the movies mean to

[00:14:03] critics or whatever but that's not why I don't like them. And then whenever we talk shit about it people are like Griffin must like it because he thinks it's an inaccurate portrayal of acting. I'm like that's one of 87. He didn't say this.

[00:14:15] I'm just going to say my five for this year is unimpeachably good. You hate when I bring it up. Now, you know, it's not that it's the thing where you look at a screen and go wow. This is a good five good five where you give yourself credit

[00:14:29] for these are five performances that I think maybe not one of them probably not but four of them were definitely in Oscar consideration. Okay, Matthew McConaughey and in their inner star. That's the one I would say probably wasn't but he was sort

[00:14:42] of riding high then I also I agree with you. I think that's his best performance ever. Yeah, Timothy Spall and Mr. Turner. Oh, I that's my winner. I did it for me. That's a resume. Remember when you just grab someone's boob? Shuffles off.

[00:14:57] He did what he did win Potter's and Marmor's that year though. David yellow in Selma. No, it's sort of course. Yes, weird snub Ben Affleck and a little movie called Gone Girl. Sure. And then Ray Fiennes in the Grand Budapest Hotel. Yeah, that's a complete multiverse choice.

[00:15:14] I mean that that could have legit. Those are all movies that got Oscar attention. They're all you know, yeah. So what the fuck sick poop got in I'll say just to restart of the conversation or joke. I don't like the movie at all.

[00:15:26] I would have put Cumberbatch in my five. I think that you're a good performance game. I think he and Keira Knightley are both excellent. I agree. I'm a Griffin your bias because you love computers. So I just feel like I do love old timey computers.

[00:15:38] I had like a door and you had to like do you guys know this that computers they should be the size of a room? Well, I don't know what you're talking about your pocket. It used to be the size for room. I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:15:48] I only know about Turing machines. I don't know what you call them today. You left before the I know in red of the Turing machine. I'm leaving now. Hold on one second. I just need to do the firmware update on my Turing machine.

[00:16:01] The weirdest weirdest weirdest thing about the imitation game is that it won an Oscar for screenplay and nothing else and it's like the worst thing about it. Yes, I believe it was on this podcast where I said I wanted the movie home again to take the Turing test.

[00:16:14] Oh God, what a weird look and with that with that weird Oscar here. Yeah, let's say of course joining us today the first time in a while. So this is my second time doing the last movie in a series.

[00:16:32] Oh because you did I think that this movie is a little better than The Witches. I'm just going to say it. I remember our witches episode being us truly not talking about the movie at all. That was zoom at like 945 at night.

[00:16:44] Yes, like my wife was like eight and a half months pregnant. I was slurping down some red wine. It was like in my apartment. Like jam. This was this period of time where we would record really late because you don't want to record till after your wife

[00:16:57] had gone to sleep. Yes, and I the Disney investor conference was that night. You had the issue with the drilling. Oh, that was the other day time recordings hard. So I was like, well if we're going to record after five, let's record late.

[00:17:11] That was that we recorded like 10 o'clock at night or 930 and it was a nightmare. It would just fuck up. I will just say I don't know those night pods. It was nice to do a little night. She took down an entire bottle of Pinot Grigio during our

[00:17:26] fucking Marwin episode. Wasn't it like a C-3PO Pinot Grigio or something and might have been the Skywalker ring. What's the Soderbergh drink? Oh, Singani 63. Sure. Love that shit. I re-upped recently. Deal on shipping. Well, he brings it to you. He does. Our guest today is Richard Lawson.

[00:17:46] Hello. Vanity Fair and Little Gold Men and our Witches episode. Yeah, this is eight timers? No, it's more than that. Nine timers? I don't know. I might be a ten. I don't know. I'm behind. I'm going to double check my counting here. I'm sorry. Okay, do the math.

[00:18:01] All right. And literally... Because trolls, trolls... Trolls doesn't count. This is... Number 10! Wow! Oh! Wait, wait. Trolls is a... Where's my green jacket? Yeah. Oh, wait. Hold on. I'll go get it. 10 timer club. Wow! In... Your first appearance was March 6, 2016. So... That was Lady and the Water. Mm-hmm.

[00:18:24] So six years. Six years? Ten ups. And then obviously Trolls the Experience. That was your... You've done two pandemic recordings with us. And this is the third, but we're in person, baby. We're in person. Yeah, we are. But yes, you called this one early, Richard.

[00:18:41] I threw you a camp. I said, what do you want to camp? And I believe your line, as was related to me by David, was, I want to do Power of the Dog... I want to do Power of the Dog, quote, for gay reasons. You did say that.

[00:18:54] Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I think it's funny because I was thinking about it. Like, I haven't done many like queerish movies with you guys, but like the other one was Philadelphia, which is really depressing. And this is also really depressing. But this one, I...

[00:19:09] This one at least has some sort of fun with... I think this movie's very funny. It is funny, but obviously it is also sad. It's bleak. The second time I watched it, I've now seen it three times.

[00:19:20] I remember being like, I guess the first time I was just kind of so energized and thrilled to be seeing this major movie. I was seeing it in a big screen. And like, I guess I was also just like, what the hell is going to happen?

[00:19:31] I was kind of on the edge. The second time I watched it, I was like, God, this is... Yeah, this is very sad. Like, especially obviously Kirsten Dunn's character and I don't know, just like everyone's kind of sad.

[00:19:42] And the third time I was like, yeah, Benny's having fun. It's pretty funny. Mean old bastard with his banjo. Yes. So malevolent. Anyway, no, you've done other queer movies with us. Spanglish, K-9 Tour, The Widowmaker. These are all queer classics.

[00:19:55] I should say Home Again is definitely the gayest movie I think you've ever done on this podcast. But gay in like the Victorian sense where you just mean like, woo! Having a lovely time. It's full of gaiety. That movie is fun and fancy free.

[00:20:09] What did Pico show up in something recently? Pico Alexander? Yeah, I hope it was Esther was telling me that Pico was back. So I guess he finally escaped my basement. I don't know what my joke is there.

[00:20:24] Oh, he's in The Sky Is Everywhere, the sort of like young adult movie that Josephine Decker made. That's like dropping on Apple TV like Friday. I have a screener sitting in my inbox. I need to watch it. I hear it's good though. I also hear it's pretty good.

[00:20:37] The book is based on Jandy Nelson. It's like a really good way. Anyway, and The Witches is super gay. No, it's not. Yeah, it wants to be kind of in a way. Yeah, but yeah, this movie Power of the Dog, I hadn't read the novel.

[00:20:52] I hadn't, I saw it like a little pre-screening before it was at Venice in New York. And I had no idea that what it was about except that it was a Jane Campion. And Jane Campion I like, but when I was a kid, we had

[00:21:04] a babysitter who was one of my dad's grad students. Phil Burbank? Yeah. All right kids, I'm going to do do do do do. That's right, go on. He would talk to us in ancient Greek while wrestling with us.

[00:21:17] No, she took us to the movies and she really wanted to see the piano. And my sister was, I guess, a lot. You mean the panini? Sorry. The piano. What is it? Panano? Panani? Yeah, panano. The panano. And she, my sister who was maybe 11 or 12. That was 93, right?

[00:21:37] Yep. They went to that and I was 10 and I was like, absolutely not. It's about like old ladies and dresses on a beach somewhere far away. No, thanks. So I went to go see the Pelican Brief by myself. Arguably a more adult movie in some way. I know.

[00:21:54] It's about legal briefs. I was ready for the swerve to be Little Giants or something. It was the Pelican Brief. It's about like a Supreme Court Justice. It was so, and I loved it, of course. It was the first movie I ever saw by myself.

[00:22:05] It was thrilling in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts. Yeah, you as a little boy seeing the Pelican Brief. I was full on. I have no interest in seeing the piano. One for the Pelican Brief, please. I was full Nelson Muntz in Branson, Missouri, just like.

[00:22:20] It's like Mulaney's bit about being the littlest gentleman would like take a briefcase or newspaper, go to a diner. It was thrilling and afterward I was like, you know, yammering away about the Pelican Brief. My sister could not have cared less and then she was telling

[00:22:34] me about the piano and she was like, you see this old man naked. She was referring to Harvey Keitel. It's like all about. You're imagining a sort of Santa Claus. It's all it's Martin Short comes along and tries to steal Christmas.

[00:22:49] Like it was all like a piano on some sort of cloudy beach and I was like and so in my head at 10 years old and it took a lot of time into adulthood to like get rid of this. I was like Jane Campion makes weird bad boring movies.

[00:23:00] Not bad, just like esoterically artsy and all that stuff. And so I went in even now having seen a lot of her other films and like them trepidatious about Power of the Dog having nothing about it and I was really like very happily

[00:23:14] surprised by the fact that it's kind of this mystery not a thriller but like it just it's a really entertaining film in addition to all of its artsy. Yes, it's a very unique movie in the way it functions and

[00:23:29] it functions in in a way that kind of defies logic like you should not be able to construct a movie this way in that you really it was only watching it a second time that I realized how much you really don't know what the fuck

[00:23:45] is going on the first time like it is a movie that provides you with no handles to grab on to. Well, Bronco Henry. Right? Well, but it's tough. You have the fucking saddle is on the wall. It was true.

[00:23:58] Well, I watched it again a third time to speak with you guys and especially in the third viewing. It's like this movie tells you what's going to happen literally in the opening like every single thing is set

[00:24:12] is set before you plainly, you know, and so that it's a little it's like it's this little mystery box that like is actually deceptively simple. I don't know. That's what's odd about it. I mean, this is what I'm saying is like you watch it the

[00:24:24] first time and you're like, what is this thing? Where the fuck is it going yet? You're still captivated by it, right? Oh, yeah, very often movies where there's not a clear like you don't know whose perspective you're supposed

[00:24:34] to be like seeing things through who you're sort of aligned with or not, you know, a character will be a central focus and then disappear for 45 minutes like it's disorienting but not in a way that ever pushes you out of the movie.

[00:24:47] You're kind of drawn in even though you can't really get your bearings on what's going on doesn't really come into focus until the moment it ends, right? Yeah, and then you watch it the second time and you're like, yeah, obviously like like the first time I saw this

[00:24:59] movie it took, you know, Johnny Greenwood score is swelling there in the barn after the hides have been given to the Native Americans and he's tearful and Cody puts his arm on him hand on him and I was like, oh, it's a gay thing.

[00:25:11] And then in the second viewing the minute he sees him in the restaurant. It's so patently obvious and I think it's it's just such an interesting not Rorschach test. That's not the right, you know analogy but like it it it

[00:25:23] really morphs kind of like Greenwood score depending on how you're viewing it. How you look at that? So it's odd that it feels elusive in that way though. And it I mean you say like it's like a mystery movie,

[00:25:37] but it's also like the mystery you're watching is where's this thing going? Like what what is the drive and who is it about? Who is it about? What's the drive? Why are all these people put together? What is the story?

[00:25:49] Where's the dog and what's its power right exactly then kept on asking. I mean the dog is his name is Clifford. He's big and red. Yeah, that's his power. So he's which is a cool power. He's like an injured military dog and this actor who hasn't

[00:26:03] worked in like five years is paired up with him. Jane Addams is bizarrely in dog dog dog dog dog dog. Dog dog. That's getting to him saw the power of the dog and he was like wait, hold on a second cut to the and the power and

[00:26:18] the of and the the it's cleaner doing the hand gesture. I'm just doing the longer power of the dog. I also it's what you say Richard. She made the piano. She made the power of the dog in between. It's not like her movies never resonated with people, but

[00:26:36] she never had no broad appeal for any of them. No, and the piano cast like a huge shadow over the rest of her career up until this movie arguably where you're like, yes that woman who made the piano and this is a movie where

[00:26:50] it's like this absolutely feels like the movie she would want to make and would be interested in making but once again somewhat serendipitously. It's just kind of crossed over. Yes with being more of a broad right commercial.

[00:27:02] I mean so hard to say this with like Netflix, but like, you know what? I mean just like does feel like it the kind of movie that I would tell everyone in my life to watch versus I love in

[00:27:12] the cut, but I'm not going to be like, you know, everyone's in a choir. It's kind of right. You know when it's coming out. Yeah. No, that's when people ask me like what should I watch? I'm like well, you've seen power of the dog right and if

[00:27:23] they haven't I tell them to see it regardless of who they are. I'm just like that's a movie anyone find compelling. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I took my boyfriend to see it and I afterward we went to see at the Paris which was in which is really fun.

[00:27:36] Well, I mean the crowd wasn't fun but the movie, you know, it was nice to see it on big screen and afterward I was like so what did you think happened at the end and he was like

[00:27:44] and he just laid it out perfectly and I was like, oh, so I guess some people actually just as more accessible in some ways than it was even, you know for me who was yeah, sort of professionally.

[00:27:54] So yeah, I think it has much broader appeal than a lot of campion. What was his take on it? Well, he knew right from the restaurant scene that that there was a sort of gay, you know, song. Yeah, something happening.

[00:28:06] He he knew immediately like when Cody was riding the horse that he was going to make him kill, you know, fill with anthrax like it was like he had it all mapped out and I which is an interesting thing because again, if the movie

[00:28:17] morphs depending on what you're bringing to it. I struggle to watch movies that way not because I just I'm not good at it. I'm too like oh, yeah, like I struggle to predict what's going to happen. But I truly was flabbergasted by the end of this movie.

[00:28:30] Yeah, like I was certainly not what I was expecting at all. I mean, I kept myself very clean. I even though I saw it in France. Thank you. You know, I saw it in Thrax is a sick name for a disease though. Yeah, it might be.

[00:28:44] Well, yeah, thanks. Yeah, I'm just saying though. It's like probably one of the better disease. I didn't know until I watched this movie which is kind of embarrassing when they said it and I was like it's 1925. There's an X at the end. There's no way they had worse.

[00:28:57] Right? Like what did someone send an envelope to Tom Brokaw? Where are they finding anthrax? There's an X like there's that. That's not a 20s word. They've had that bullshit since Greek times. Yeah, it's still taking Paxil. What is it? What is it? Right exactly.

[00:29:11] These aren't old-timey Western words. No, I was gonna say I kept myself fairly clean this movie good thing. Otherwise, you get an answer despite seeing it months after you guys I had just sort of gone like yeah, I'm gonna like that.

[00:29:25] I want to see that I don't need to read. Yeah, sure. I'll read no anything else about it very often like with the with Film Festival movies like that. I'm like cool won't watch the trailer don't need to know

[00:29:35] anything and the two things I sort of had in the back of my mind before seeing it were you calling dibs on a quote-unquote for gay reasons. Oh, so you hadn't even seen it. I guess no. No, and I was just like, huh.

[00:29:47] I wonder if Richard has some gay reading of power of the dog. Oh, like I saw some subtext in here. Yeah, even watching it. I was not picking up on anything until the scene with the fucking handkerchief, right? Right.

[00:30:01] I thought like we're just gonna have some fucking Galaxy brain take on this right? No, it's a very straight forward. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and then David saying the thing to me of like it's one of those movies where you really don't know where it's going

[00:30:14] and it's not until the final moment that you go. Oh now I see what she was doing and and when you said that to me, I imagined it more in a sort of like, oh, that's what the movie is really about like maybe the metaphor doesn't

[00:30:26] click into play, you know, her sort of thematic interest don't sort of become come into focus, but even still with those two things that you guys had told me I sat there just being like, huh? I really don't know what this movie is and I don't know if

[00:30:39] I'm getting it less than other people. I'm transfixed by it, but like I have no idea what the fuck's going on. I would say I didn't really lock in until about the same scene as you and then I was sort of with it, but just going like

[00:30:51] so what is this movie exactly? Yeah, and then yeah, and then was completely like thrown off by the ending and kind of knocked out by the movie in whole. And to that end like, you know, that the you could hear something about that movie like, oh Benedict Cumberbatch

[00:31:06] plays a sexually oppressed cowboy in the 1920s, right? And you would watch a lot of that movie and be like this movie is explicitly and maybe solely a tragedy about this like horrible man who you know visits his repression onto a younger person who is more demonstrably himself.

[00:31:25] That is certainly what I thought the movie was. At the end of the movie, it's like no the tragedy is about I mean it's about Phil but it's about Cody's you know, it's about that kid and like that the closet has warped

[00:31:36] him to such a degree that he becomes a murderer, you know, and I just think there's such a surprise throughout the movie in terms of like well again who it's about and what how it's about that. I think like watching the second time the thing that became

[00:31:49] so clear to me is like above all else. This is a movie about four like unbelievably fragile people. Yeah, right certainly and how differently they deal with sort of protecting their fragility in like a hostile tense world, right?

[00:32:10] And the only guy who comes out of this like really kind of clean is Plemons, right? Which I kind of disagree with actually because I rewatching it again. I think that a lot of I'm sorry about it character names Kirsten Dunst character Rose.

[00:32:24] I think a lot of Rose is mounting misery is because very pointedly Plemons leaves the film for like the right kind of neglect and let's have and he's like I'm just going to stick her in this house with my horrid brother, right?

[00:32:38] And maybe her son once in a while and I'm going to go off he's so afraid of confrontation. Yeah, you know, he can't he can't handle confrontation with Phil or with Rose like, you know, he also he stopped drinking or anything.

[00:32:50] He he's not unique in this but he like really cannot express himself, right? You know, he's really not good at verbalizing things. It's why I this whole season as like he would get thrown onto lists. I'd be like look, I love Plemons.

[00:33:07] He's fucking great, but I'm sort of surprised. He's even in the best supporting actor conversation, especially when there's already another supporting candidate from this movie because he's doing such sort of like just quiet sturdy work right and then rewatching it. I was like, oh right.

[00:33:22] I forgot that he kind of owns the first hour of this movie yet. He is sort of the closest thing to like a principal character you have as much as it is on scene where he cries and says I'm so happy not be alone. That's right.

[00:33:34] That scene was so wonderful. But then the other scene that's so sort of telling is when he goes into the back room and he just puts the fucking wine dripping blanket over his arm and starts serving the food and whatever where it's just like you're kind of taken

[00:33:48] by like command. This guy is so sort of attentive to the sensitivities of other people. He can sense it. The thing he says he picks up on her crying all that sort of stuff, but you're right. There is this question of like why does he leave her for

[00:34:03] that long? Is he oblivious? Well, he also I think railroads her horribly about the piano playing and because he's not listening to her because all he saw was a pretty lonely woman who he should marry. She was probably the only such woman for like what a hundred

[00:34:18] mile radius hundreds of miles. I know and and and so kind of plucked her out of this what he deemed a lonely miserable existence, but we kind of as the movie goes or like actually maybe it wasn't so bad like

[00:34:28] yeah, these cowboys would come in and be jerks and she was grieving her husband but like it was better than rotting away in this house, you know, and then he embarrassing her in front of the fucking governor, you know, so I

[00:34:39] think that like can't be in really subtly and this you know in the script and like teases out that Plemons. Yes is one of the better people in the movie, but even still like is well, he thinks he can just fix it with like, yeah,

[00:34:52] we'll bring her piano to the house. We'll switch the house up and it's like the house is kind of terrifying. It's dark imposing. She knows the house was gorgeous. She moves to crimson. He was those interior were really nice and also did any and

[00:35:06] Right and it's like, oh, come on. All this house needs is a lick of paint. Don't mind my brother who in like Cumberbatch is just like lurking at the top of the David stop miming Cumberbatch playing the banjo.

[00:35:17] I just want to make it like every five minutes doing banjo hands and when you know and Cumberbatch is basically like I hate you you fat fuck. I see that you and he's like, yes brother, you know, it's

[00:35:31] been a good 25 years like he cannot you know deal with I guess that's that's sort of more what I'm saying. Is that Plemons is the only one who doesn't feel sort of broken by the world, right? Like everyone else. It is the clear.

[00:35:43] Yeah, right central damage on there and perhaps the casual cruelty of the Plemons character is the thing that gives him the best survival mechanism, which is he's able to sort of disconnect a little bit. He's not where's everyone else feels like to fucking deeply

[00:35:56] all the time and has to develop some sort of protective barrier. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's more just that like can't be and maybe arguing that like even for a relatively decent guy like Plemons his character that in this hierarchy in the 1920s in Montana

[00:36:11] that male interest whether that's conflict or compassion or whatever still operates higher than the concern for a woman, you know, like Phil is more important to attend to or sort of or appease or whatever than his wife is because of the way that this social structure is ordered.

[00:36:28] Sure. I mean there's also there's something to like almost all of her films have some sort of conversation with like the indigenous people of whatever land her movie is taking place on and this movie does it a very small amount and and so hides.

[00:36:46] Yeah, right in the Adam Beach and so the first time watching I'm sort of like what is this doing in here? Like what is the purpose of this but watching it a second time it does feel like it's kind of a commentary on the

[00:37:02] the sort of performative nature of the American people in general, right sure that there were these people who lived on this land that belong to them and had this fairly organic life and then you had people come from another country

[00:37:20] who exist in opposition of the country that they were leaving who are just like no. This is what America is now and so much of it was that they had to affect the bravado of how to be tougher and more

[00:37:31] deserving and appreciative of the land and the people they were stealing it from you know that like the cowboy the American cowboy exists almost as like a performative one-ups man ship of the the Native American right of just like we

[00:37:46] have to seem like we are more in touch with this more in control of the elements tougher, you know, like and and that's the whole Phil Burbank thing is just like how do I inspire respect in people if I just seem like I fucking get this

[00:38:03] better than anyone else right and it gets to an embarrassing point of you can't wash it probably stink right like that thing. Right, but it is that thing. It's like Clemens asking him to wash up is so offensive to

[00:38:15] him because he's like this is all I have right if you clean me up the whole fucking facade is gone. That's the thing. I'm just I'm right back at Yale right in my classics where I'm sure there's a whole backstory there, you know about

[00:38:26] right whatever happened with some guy at Yale, you know, right there. There's a there's a certain degree of anti-intellectualism that is like baked into the very DNA of America because it's an opposition of like the culture to Europeans.

[00:38:41] I would argue to a degree right sure how quickly like the cowboy forms as like the archetype of like the alpha male, but then George wants to civilize right and he's like no none no more ranching.

[00:38:54] I want to meet the governor and I want to have a nice house and I want to have a nice place that people can come in the railroad and you know, like all that and Phil is like as

[00:39:02] you say he's like ridiculous like you can't write like that's not what we're here for and and the governor and his wife's was kind of like plenty and sassy and like and even the parents like they see through him.

[00:39:12] I get to know he is he and and the other Cowboys kind of tolerate it because he's their employer but like and maybe he's kind of an oddity to them. But like like there are people within the very tightly contained

[00:39:23] world of this movie who also it's not just the audience in there in our modern times. How ridiculous and pathetic he is it's them right contemporaneously you know a little full of shit. He is tough stuff. I suppose if he wants the compliment, you know, whatever he's

[00:39:38] castrating bulls with his hands and all that like there are many movies with on-screen castration of any kind that's true as David points out. He does do the shit like he has become very good at everything but it's like the dinner with the governor is like the thing

[00:39:54] He cannot do is he is not a skilled enough actor to be fucking like little Lord Fauntleroy academic whiz kid pretending to be a cowboy trying to appeal to high society, right? He knows that like if he tries to split the difference with them,

[00:40:12] he's going to roll all the way back. Sure, right? He doesn't want right. He doesn't want to lift the veil. He just wants to be mean banjo man. David's doing the hand. Um, Benny Dicked Cumberbatch is incredible casting for this very

[00:40:27] reason because people I saw some reactions maybe even before the movie was out of people being like, well, come you know British actor playing a cowboy like well, you know that's that he's very good at that kind. You feel like it's a performance.

[00:40:43] So he's an incredibly cerebral actor. He's a great and to hire him to play a tough guy feels like a mistake to hire him to play an American feels like a mistake like all these sorts of things.

[00:40:53] I thought I like him a lot but it is it is such smart like meta casting in that way. It I mean because I sort of blithely said that I haven't liked him in anything before this.

[00:41:04] I just you know, thinking back to when Sherlock was such a big show and I would try to watch it because I was like this seems like something I should love but it was like excruciating for me to

[00:41:11] watch that was a shot really struggled with you know, but watching power the dog. You're like, oh campaign was like you guys have been using him wrong. Everyone has used right? This is this is what how you play him, you know, you you you don't

[00:41:25] try to like shy away from his, you know aristocratic bone structure and and bearing you just kind of use it to make a different point, you know, it's just it's really like genius and the accent work is a little bit, you know wobbly from I don't mind it.

[00:41:42] I want to say a couple things for let's do some I want to give you a little context for this movie because it is interesting. Obviously the campion took such a long break in filmmaking, but a Ben anthrax the etymology Greek the word anthrax in Greek means

[00:41:56] carbuncle referring to the postulants you go. So that's why it's called anthrax. Damn. There you go. Sick. Anyway, so yeah, so you know Jane Campion she makes bright star. I would say that that salvage is probably too strong, but like, you know sort of mellows the blow.

[00:42:17] I would say who it almost resets her if that's right. It doesn't make a big enough impact to like salvage fully the damage of the previous movies, but it does sort of reset her to like, oh, that's a director who makes critically respectable films, but she

[00:42:35] does not after bright star have like some usually she would have like a project in the hopper. I feel like like she would always have stuff that she's like, well, I want to do that now. She doesn't really have that.

[00:42:43] She thought about adapting Alice Munro's runaway a short story. Okay, which she never got off the ground. She thought about adapting the novel The Flamethrowers, which was a big those are great choices for Monroe and the flamethrower.

[00:42:59] I know like the flamethrowers is what is set in like the revolutionary 70s Italy right and well sort of and also the like the really really desolate American West because it's like these motorcycle races. Right, right. Yeah seems cool.

[00:43:15] It's in the hands of Scott Rudin which may be why I never came together and safe hands. Yeah, yeah, right. Of course then she goes on to do top of the lake. I think we may have forgotten to mention that did we mention that

[00:43:25] Anna Paquin was supposed to play that role? I don't forgot about it because I remember the thing that happened was that show was supposed to be funded by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation and then when Paquin pulled out I think because of True Blood or something.

[00:43:38] Yeah, and was replaced with Elizabeth Moss. They pulled out because they were like, she's not a straight. Yes. So like the BBC came in or what you know, like anyway, there's a part of me that wonders because power of the dog was partially

[00:43:52] financed by the New Zealand Film Commission if like Thomas and Mackenzie being in it in a role that at this point is smaller than like her stature in her career is sort of a like favor of like we

[00:44:05] need to get X amount of New Zealand sure Australian actors in support and roles in order to get financing because yes, very often these grants from countries. You can't just film there. You can't just be a director from there.

[00:44:18] You also need to be employing not just behind the scenes but on camera locals. Do you think they were upset that Cody Smith McPhee is from space? Richard are you top of the lake pro con? Have you seen I saw all of the first season?

[00:44:37] I only saw a little China girl top like was again because I had that campaign blockage from like age 10 the pelican brief affair. I was like, oh this is going to be some dirge and that but that show is great.

[00:44:47] I mean, you know, yeah and I had issues again with accent work. I was like, oh is Elizabeth Moss doing this right and Australian Fred says it's the best he's ever heard in American do an Australian accent to your accent.

[00:44:58] It's a great show and it again like she you loved it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I think it's maybe the best thing she's ever done. But but yeah, I mean it's funny that it's like hackering supposed

[00:45:06] to do top of the lake which obviously would have been powerful to see them reteam in that sort of way. I mean, I'd still love to see a double Pacman do something with Campion again. Yeah, but the final seasons of true blood were way better than

[00:45:17] anything Jane Campion would ever make so it was where I should have just taken over the last season. How dare you trying? I don't know being a southern vampire. Okay, so okay. I recap that show for the V Club should tell the bitter end.

[00:45:32] No, I eventually got to got really the final season and final episode are among the worst television ever made. Really? I want to do bad things to you. Remember true blood true kind of kept HBO going in that's post-sopranos.

[00:45:47] My roommate was a true blood fanatic for all of those years. Yes, it was the thing. It's an enjoyably wacky show even though yes, it completely went off the rails like I did, you know that Alan Ball thing

[00:45:57] where you're like, I don't know go off King and then you're like, he's going I come back in coming but it also it gave us a lot. It gave us scars guard, you know, I can't Michelle Forbes working for a year or two, you know, just the year.

[00:46:10] She was a main and that's right. Anyway, I like Dale has referred to Michelle Forbes as that actor who always gets added to the fourth season of a TV show. You're on a swing in it's true. Yeah. Hey, she's first season on the killing killing.

[00:46:22] Okay, remember the kill? Okay, but but my all I was going to say here. I don't know if this is where you were going with this, but it's like Pac-Man hands off to Moss Moss was supposed to do this movie interesting. She'd probably be good.

[00:46:34] Yeah, it was supposed to be Moss and Paul Dano. Oh, but I'm glad that's cool pieces of gas. But but absolutely like upgrade these the two actors we got are better fit for it and there's so much you get once again

[00:46:49] just smart casting you have so much work done for you by the fact that they are a real couple. I feel like so often when you put real couples on screen, it's that very vulnerable thing where you're like, they don't have that much chemistry.

[00:47:01] Oh, is that like a bad? Is that a bad sign or it's like they just want to play up like the fucking sexual magnetism of the two of them the very easy comfort the two of them have with each other and

[00:47:11] the intimacy they have with each other helps this movie get their entire relationship set up in like three minutes. Yeah, okay. It's so natural that it's just like there's no you I mean it sounds corny but like you kind of forget that they're acting. Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:28] I agree with that. I just want to say the Campion felt doing those top of the lake seasons, even though season 2 doesn't go over as well. Yeah helped change the perception of her in positively trick. She thought it was good.

[00:47:42] It was good for me and she says the atmosphere has changed. I really feel like I've reached granny level. Don't be rude to granny, you know system is respects your longevity in the industry. I feel that so I you know, whatever certainly the most watched

[00:47:54] thing she's done since piano has to be has to be and when she brought China girl to can she was seen at many a party by myself with my own eyes like a top. Oh just dancing like maniac. I mean really dog. Oh, she really dances.

[00:48:11] She loves she like every party of everything. I'll be can't tell us this as well that she's a fucking dance machine. Yeah, that's her thing. She's party monster. So yeah, she also as we know in this interim chaired the

[00:48:24] 2014 can journey gave the palm door to winter sleep which put me to winter sleep. Hey David, I was supposed to see that movie the first movie at can I arrived after the festival already started and we

[00:48:37] got to the Airbnb and they were like, I was like do I now want to watch a three-hour movie called winter sleep and I said no. Yeah, so that's began my great tradition of not seeing the palm door winner when I'm a can by accident beyond all do

[00:48:49] you not see to tan to tan? No, I did see it's a tan and I didn't like it. She considers retiring after top of the lake, but then she reads this book by Thomas Savage that was like a critically

[00:49:03] acclaimed book when it came out, but it's not not a well-remembered book has fallen out of print. Yeah, when did it come out 67? I'd never heard of it and he was like a gay or the queer

[00:49:11] author like right now like and it was like it's seen as like it kind of bold for that to be published at the time given the subject matter. It's semi autobiographical from the perspective of right. Yes, and all he wrote I think we're mostly what he wrote were

[00:49:24] Westerns and like we're about sure life and all that. It's I think it's an acknowledged influence on Brokeback Mountain the story in any pool. Yeah, but it got reprinted sometime in the 2000s and campion stepmother Judith sent her the book. They are always apparently sending each other books.

[00:49:44] She reads it and not in this way of like I'm looking for a project. She reads it. Yeah, and is like I fucking love this book. Let's see what most impressed me was Thomas Savage had lived on a ranch that this was his life.

[00:49:57] This was not a romantic vision of the West. He had moved to ranch with his mother, which is the story that he's telling in the book right and the brother of the man that his mother married was this talented chess player who went

[00:50:08] to Yale and was a mean bully like it so clearly. Yes. This is inspired by real life pretty fascinating pretty fascinating and so she just can't put this book away. She finds out that some Canadian guy owns the rights to it. She reads. Oh my God this whoa.

[00:50:28] Okay, it was Jim Carrey. Apparently it's Gerard Depardieu's favorite novel and that is why this Canadian guy had bought the rights. He read that in an interview and he's like Gerard loves this novel are the rights available like I want to make it as a play

[00:50:45] of like right. Okay, gotcha apparently at one point Paul what point it been time does that have I think we're talking like the late 80s like early night at one point Paul Newman was attached to play Phil who kind of a cool idea.

[00:50:59] Yeah, and they meet she meets this Canadian guy. His name is Roger Fred Frazier. Okay, is he credited in this? Yeah, he is. He's a credited producer on this movie and they meet at can and he's basically she's basically like come on man like top

[00:51:15] of the you know, let me do it. I'm top of the lake right now. I'm top of the lake right now. They get the funding together budget apparently is about 30 million dollars her most expensive film to date. Wow, and you know, she just wanted to recreate the thrilling

[00:51:31] shocking experience. She had reading it. They they shot this during the pandemic. I was like, you know, it's really living in the forever pandemic right? We're in New Zealand, New Zealand. Yeah, they didn't start shooting before the pandemic, right?

[00:51:45] It was a project that was like getting ready to go pandemic hits and then they sort of wait out when it feels vaguely safe. No film or did they they shot a little bit? They started shooting January 2020. Okay, and production was heart altered in March.

[00:51:58] I'm seeing here because of the pandemic of the novel coronavirus and all the current interesting and then production resumed in June. Okay, and concluded in July. So, you know, I mean it's we're at I think the tail end of

[00:52:12] this he and Cumberbatch was in character and refused to speak to dunce on set. Well, they were, you know, I was going to say I think we're at the tail end of it now, but it has been interesting and

[00:52:24] probably six months from now will be fully out of these but movies that had unplanned six-month breaks in the middle of shooting. Yeah, right. That's a very specific unique phenomenon, right? Where it's like this movie fucking nightmare alley jackass

[00:52:40] forever Batman is like one of the last big ones that have that effect last day of the card counter the last day of the card counter. If I ever interview Schrader, I'm like what's the one day like what's in this movie that you had to shoot after a

[00:52:53] Six-month break. It was so funny. Like just a finger and he was like, just let me do it. His Facebook on like March 12th and he's like give me God the fucking it must be really hard to get back into that mood or filming.

[00:53:05] I mean, that's why I find it so fascinating. There's that one. I mean, this is not exactly related but remember the show Rome the HBO show? Yes. So they built this, you know, ancient Roman Street. How long did it take? Like a day? Like Chine Chita or something.

[00:53:18] Yeah. Thank you. That was good. You. They were about to start filming or something and then this like huge storm blew through Rome and they were like, oh my God, like the set we just finished building. It's destroyed and they went back but it was like like grass

[00:53:40] had started poking up through the things and they were like wait, this is perfect. Yeah. So I wonder if in some sense is like maybe sometimes this six-month COVID break helps or that's why I think it's interesting.

[00:53:51] I it's hard to quantify but some films I do get the sense of like this might have helped them the perspective. Maybe right. Maybe reset in the middle. Look at the script and you're like, wait, why are we doing this?

[00:54:02] Right and other movies less so but I'm surprised this doesn't feel like I couldn't remember which one it was but this doesn't feel like a movie that had for it. What it seems like when I'm reading it seems like most of

[00:54:12] the exteriors were done and most of the stuff they did post break where interiors on on like sets in Auckland. The exact opposite of how you would want things to go during a pandemic. But also New Zealand was it was a fairly the single safest place to film.

[00:54:28] Right getting back to her viewing the Annie Pruill. She talks to Annie Pruill the author of Brokeback Mountain about like Phil's homosexuality and how to reveal it like how much to get into it because I think it's a lot more coded in the book. Yes in the book.

[00:54:44] She says it's sly right but there are muscle men magazines and obviously yeah, Bronco Henry. There was a big review discussion over Bronco Henry. Would we have any images? He's this powerful ghost. I made this rule. No flashbacks will move chronologically.

[00:55:01] It gives an audience a sense of security when they can you know what they can get to know what they can't flashbacks. She totally the right call. No joke intended if they had ever shown Bronco Henry Bronco Henry in this movie it would lose 25% of its power.

[00:55:15] I think so. I would have been cool to see him in the sky at night, you know, and that would be the clouds. Yeah, that would be kind of cool. I so like the Bronco Henry obviously has a lot of meme

[00:55:32] value right people really took to the Bronco Henry idea the moment this movie hit Netflix. I find Bronco Henry so funny. It's one of those things are any times it's referenced. I find myself giggling even when it's referenced in the

[00:55:46] movie or conversation or whatever and I was trying to think like what is it that's so inherently funny about Bronco Henry to me and then I realized it's the Bill Braske thing. It's Bill Braske. It's Bill Braske. It's the idea of just like there's something about this name.

[00:55:59] That's just like Bronco Henry. Someone's jumped a horse over a bar or whatever and you're like, okay and and and that he feels so abstract that you're like here's this like fucking bullish name that everyone keeps on fucking talking up and in your mind, you can't reconcile

[00:56:15] what this person would look like or how we would behave. I mean like virtual characters like that are incredible. Like I mean Beckett would tell you, you know, obviously like but I think it works so well in this because the more you

[00:56:26] hear this ridiculous name right and these exploits that like who knows because it's all these younger guys being like tell us another tale of Bronco Henry who knows if it's real right but like it just makes Phil look, you know, he starts

[00:56:39] Let's say 40 and then he's 32 and then by the end of the Broncos Henry stories, he's like an eight-year-old boy, you know, that's the other thing of the Bill Braske effect, which it's like the more they talk about him the more these people seem kind of pathetic.

[00:56:53] Yeah, we're like why do they idolize this fucking guy? So it's also not to their whole existence is based on the can't stop talking about fucking Bill Braske. It's also deeply unbutch in a way like like like this obsession

[00:57:04] with this like cool guy from the past, you know, like It's nature out there. It's hard to tame it or like no one can do it except for Bronco Henry obviously he was 18 feet tall like it really feels like

[00:57:16] a lot of yeah, a lot of the anecdotes could be followed then why don't you marry him? Yeah, I would also just the way Phil is like George remember what we were doing earlier and George is like what oh, I don't

[00:57:31] rightly know and say we were hanging out with Bronco Henry for crying out loud like he only wants to tell the one story. It's it's really like it's really like Tony Soprano waxing nostalgic about the old days. Sure, you know, but on silent.

[00:57:46] Yeah, and then you know Bronco Henry narrating from a gravestone, you know, right in the prequel for the for this movie with now you're wondering how I ended up here me. Bronco Henry. Yeah, sorry if I sound funny my neck's a little sore.

[00:58:01] Yeah, I just say there is such a huge spoiler at the beginning of that movie. Which movie many sense of Newark amazing. Sure. I was so excited to watch that right? I go to see that in theaters. I'm loving it. I get home. I turn on HBO Max.

[00:58:15] I'm like they already have a spin-off series and I know this is this thing they've been planning on doing of like all we'll do an HBO Max Batman series and the Dune series or whatever, but then I watched the show and I'm just like well this fuck

[00:58:26] you've spoiled the thing. I know where this should have gone. You did that. Take it a walk around the block. My bit was I genuinely saw many sense of Newark in theaters that ever having watched so this because I said to you I want

[00:58:42] to do it Phantom podcast. Anyway, I want to tell this JJ is Ernest. I mean one thing is Jane Campion combo of being incredibly smart and cool in interviews and just being old and I'm sure like who gives a fuck.

[00:58:57] Yeah, so she apparently while she's writing this film. She has crazy dreams about it being on a big black horse. And so she goes to a dream analyst and like gets into her head and yeah is like this was such a great process analyzing

[00:59:10] my fears and so she makes Cumberbatch Cumberbatch do it too. She's like you're going to go to a dream analyst. Yeah, and Cumberbatch is like but Jane Campion's dreams are rich in imagery. They're sexual and fantastical and spiritual exploding orchids

[00:59:23] of blood and I'm dreaming about like not being able to climb a tree. He's sure James are boring. Like I'm a dumb act. Is this the longest research dossier? It's 24 pages long. I mean, I can't do it all but it there is so much good stuff in there.

[00:59:37] I think JJ kind of likes to top himself sometimes he does and he was he was posting he was like doing like Victor elapsed on Twitter about the fact that he'd broken this one to chapters. Well much like the movie. I don't well.

[00:59:48] Bronco Henry used to like a top himself to hey, that's just one of the many amazing things that make it do so truly every time we mention him by name I start like I made a Bronco Henry joke when we're recording this the Oscar nominations

[01:00:03] came out yesterday about the in memoriam having Bronco Henry in it because I found I found a photo of a metallic blue mannequin head that's wearing a cowboy hat with a crocheted like dick and balls on it. Supposed to be writing a magazine piece like with a really

[01:00:23] short turnaround time and I'm just a giggling in my apartment about Bronco Henry. It's like Bill Braske where it's like you can say anything about it's just yeah, you can assign any visual descriptor on to him if she like casting Knoll Tee, but he's not in the

[01:00:40] movie right? He was just on set like sort of glowering at people like Matthew Broderick in the Christmas story where he's just standing there staring but no one can see him right you ever watch that right? You're just like so we're scenes cut out. No, no, no.

[01:00:52] He was never even written to the script week. He wasn't even on set. We just had a he stayed at home. We told people just know Nick Nolte is playing exactly. Exactly. Yeah, here's some other things she did so they gathered the

[01:01:04] actors for three weeks to hike to improvise not really rehearse but like do exercises. I'll say that's a value to starting production before the pandemic because once the pandemic starts that shit you all that stuff has to be cut. They ate together. They cook together.

[01:01:19] They would sit in rooms together in character not talking. She had Cumberbatch write a letter to to Bronco Henry. She had Cumberbatch write a letter from Bronco Henry back to Phil. She had Cumberbatch and Plemons waltz together to learn

[01:01:33] intimately how they smelled felt and moved because she was like you guys have been in it for 25 years. You need to be like, yeah, like that pretty cool. And then she goes to Montana to see Savage's Ranch.

[01:01:49] I think thinking maybe we'll shoot here and was like it's too modern. There's like infrastructure. There's oil there, you know, like it doesn't it's not going to work and so she's like let's shoot it in New Zealand like you know, because it's it's these incredible mountains.

[01:02:03] It looks like a fantasy which ended up being a very very beneficial move in retrospect. They have more shooting freedom than most productions that started up again during. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't feel you know, it's funny. I watched Marry Me last night that Jennifer Lopez.

[01:02:22] I'm jealous and that was filmed before the pandemic. Should I be jealous? No, it's interesting. It's basically been stripped of any possible comedy because Jennifer Lopez can never have the joke be on her. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's fun though. Yeah, in an odd way.

[01:02:36] I like that it exists. It's gentle. It's nice and glossy and it was like the big thing was like oh it was filmed before the pandemic so they could do more but Power of the Dog looks like more of a pre-pandemic movie

[01:02:47] than something that was actually shot before. I don't know. I mean, I guess that's like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess shooting all the exteriors before the pandemic is interesting. I don't know. Yeah. To get everyone excited about coming back.

[01:03:01] Actually, you guys are talking about this break that they took. They cut together like a sizzle reel of everything they'd shot already just to kind of get everyone excited which is sort of a cool idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Benedict Cumberbatch.

[01:03:13] This is the thing and I've heard this from other people who are trying to make movies. He is a green light. Yeah, and like I think some people would be surprised to hear that because it's sort of like, you know, does everyone know who he is?

[01:03:25] But it's like because of Doctor Strange and his general ubiquity every studio is like green. You have Benedict Cumberbatch on board. You get finance. Yeah, right with a certain cap. I would have I would guess on the finance. But like there's another massive budget movie that he was

[01:03:40] supposed to be in that he ended up not being in but the minute he was cast the studio was like, yep. You got it. What movie was that? I don't want to say it on mic, but I'll say it off mic. Oh interesting.

[01:03:50] But like I was just sort of I was like really Cumberbatch and it's like yeah, man. It's that Marvel thing. I think I think there are a couple other things. And Sherlock and yeah, I was gonna say right like Sherlock streaming television being sort of global.

[01:04:02] I think that did a lot for him. I think we forget that Imitation Game made a hundred million dollars domestically. They out the man on it the film. Richard and I were most of that. We just kept going back going back.

[01:04:16] It's like Titanic, but I would walk out before the final titles part right? And I want to know what they're called now. Can't tell me exactly but but yes, no, I think that's a movie that actually really kind of boosted his budget because look

[01:04:32] the Marvel things the Marvel thing, right? But I think not every Marvel actor maybe has immediate green light power to that degree. I think the fact that he was able to take like an Oscar-bait movie and make a crossover in addition to him being this

[01:04:48] like global TV star right that he's big in like every country. No one looks like him. No one looks like him. He's surely you think no one sounds like him. No, not really. What was the fucking thing? God, why am I forgetting this now?

[01:05:04] There was I was watching some thing with Romilly where she was like, who's that actor? And I was like, it's Benedict Cumberbatch. Who do you think it is? And I couldn't believe that she didn't immediately recognize him, but now I can't even he's not a chameleon Nick actor.

[01:05:21] I'll say this for his looks. I was in Telluride where this movie played last Labor Day and he was there. We were like an outdoor event and I met him and he was wearing jeans a white t-shirt a baseball cap and had scruff like hadn't

[01:05:37] shaved in a few days. Gorgeous by the way, but like did kind of look a little bit more like like he might actually be capable that he just hasn't done it. Sure, because that's not how the industry thinks of him or whatever. It was no way home.

[01:05:50] Romilly and I went right and so no way home, but she seen like no other Marvel movies. Right? She should have been. She's playing. Who's that actor? That's really funny. That's why that's why it was so fun because the most extreme

[01:06:00] example that but this is a weird thing. I was thinking about like he has more value because the stuff he's done outside of Marvel has also been successful commercially and crossed over right current war. Obviously huge hit which means I think things like the current

[01:06:15] were but also what was that fucking movie that came out or last year? That was like him as a spy or some shit the courier like not just as he a green light for big budget shit studio shit, whatever

[01:06:26] but it's like those kinds of like 20 million dollar adult dramas that don't really get made anymore. If you want to get one made you kind of need him in it. He's a good five movies. Yeah, you know, yes.

[01:06:38] I've only seen the fifth one but it's a franchise but the thing I was going to say about him and and just the phenomenon of casting like a Marvel actor in your smaller movie or our house

[01:06:49] movie or any movie or drama your whatever is that like so much of the value is you're going to get so much free publicity by sending those actors out to do any sort of press tour or festivals

[01:07:02] and then they will get hit by the questions about the upcoming Marvel movie and people scourging for any spoiler or secret and then that getting recirculated to the high heavens. It's funny that that's so much of the like getting an actor on

[01:07:15] like a late-night talk show doesn't really fucking move the needle or a magazine cover any of those things. The cache is just while you're promoting your smaller movie. Do you have a bigger movie upcoming that interviewers will try

[01:07:26] to sneak in questions and any offhand mention you make will go viral on Twitter, right? I'm curious how far you think that extends for people in the MCU like like is that true for Elizabeth Olsen? I mean, maybe now after WandaVision but like you know what

[01:07:40] I mean because there's so many actors involved but I feel like Cumberbatch has the Marvel thing but also he has like the nerdy Tumblr fan people from yes. Oh sure. Luckily, that's a whole other concern. So here right?

[01:07:50] There's a weird sort of like mix of Cumberbatch elements that add to his value right where you're like this weird fucking like heartthrob status. What super hula isn't that a term from Tumblr family really where it's super natural and Sherlock fanfiction.

[01:08:05] Well super hula is and Doctor Who obviously that is just the general term for what I'm a tumbler at the time the sort of engine of that kind of fandom and like around 2010 has three show to have that and Marvel fandom which are right.

[01:08:19] I think things is fascinating right and then also sort of highbrow like legitimate actor is sort of sure. Yeah, absolutely right. His name is sticky too. He's got a good name. You don't forget.

[01:08:30] I feel like the name is kind of a part of it a little bit too because like I just I don't know. I somehow have always known his name. Are we talking about Barack and Henry now?

[01:08:38] Yeah, but this is also when my fucking sister turns to me and goes who's that actor? I had this moment of glee where I'm like I get to now say Benedict Cumberbatch, you know, like there's nothing that's the funniest right punchline.

[01:08:51] It's like saying the Aristocrats or something, you know, where you're just like I'm a set of rustic cats one. I mentioned how method he was. He was Phil on set and all that. He said that he refused to wash for a while to try and and

[01:09:03] then he was so stinky that you couldn't take him anywhere. This is one of those movies where you feel like you can smell it. Yeah, it's pretty great. Like when women tells him to take a bath and then he's kind

[01:09:13] of like you cut to the river like back to Phil just see that you're like, yeah, it is really interesting to watch someone of Cumberbatch's stature like in terms of like he's a big franchise actor. He's a respected, you know, like the British thespian kind

[01:09:27] of guy to just do a role like this that is just routinely so embarrassing. Yes, like it's not it's not like the actual Marble Man tough guy. It's right. That's embarrassing approximation of it and it's just like I think that's really brave in a way like a lot.

[01:09:41] There aren't a lot of marquee movie stars who would be willing to do that. No and and who are unique enough in their whole energy their Look their demeanor. What have you that them doing these things has its own unique power. You know what I'm saying?

[01:09:58] Yeah, like I think Chris Evans is somewhat underrated as an actor, but he is such a Kendall. Yeah that it's like it's not as sort of fascinating as it is watching Benedict Cumberbatch put a beard and a cowboy hat

[01:10:13] on and then dance around with a bandana and like, you know, right, right exactly. Yeah, because I think with Evans it would be like, oh he's doing dress up and you know, whatever I like right here. There's actually like I don't know if there's something

[01:10:26] different happening something more happening. Yes. Yes, and it is he seems very unafraid to do things that other actors could find embarrassing and in a poorly executed movie would become like the shit of fucking Twitter legend like it

[01:10:42] would just be like right like how many everyone would joke about this fucking scene. Can you imagine what he does? Right like like how many big like what few like bankable movie stars are left would like do like the tough cowboy role

[01:10:55] that where people keep talking about how much he smells and it's like pathetic, right? Right, right. That's not common like knowing me like that like there's no ego involved there which is not necessarily a quality that I would have put on him before seeing this movie great Clemens

[01:11:08] quote here apparently at one point he was he's in character. He called Clemens big boy instead of fat. So which I think that's I was in the script. And Clemens was like that really got under my skin.

[01:11:19] I feel like a few people in my life have been like hey big boy and I was like goddammit what the fuck so like I like that Clemens was admit that like that little tweak he does was like found its way through the armor or whatever.

[01:11:31] Yeah, it just seems like he's really good at playing someone who can look at you and kind of figure out what your vulnerability is because that's what Phil is good at. Yeah, you know that's his intelligence. He's a catty old Queen.

[01:11:44] He is he's a fucking roommate as ran up form her guest from for best future. Guess yeah, like this is a movie about having a bad roommate. Yes. Well, this is also a surveillance bliss pass a future guest

[01:11:57] did our sweetie episode hadn't seen power the dog yet watch it about a week or two after we record it and text me and said like there are a lot of similarities between that and sweetie right like they're both sort of like bad roommate

[01:12:08] family member comes in disrupts the balance of the house. Oh, yeah, and just that simmering tension of just like the a lot the Alliance is shifting. What's going to go wrong here? Like it knowing there's some tragic end coming. Yeah, it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating.

[01:12:27] But it that that is that's a cover batch value you get in this movie, which is few actors project intelligence more consistently than him right right right and it's something about it is annoying like the kind of intelligence that could craft a Turing machine.

[01:12:45] But something like this you just go like it when he's the beginning is just sort of playing tough ranch or whatever you're like, he's too smart and intellectual for this and then once you start to realize that scene where they like where who is it keratin the governor?

[01:12:58] He says like I heard your brother. He be you. Classics, right? Yeah, and you're just like the first time watching. I was like, wait, I'm sorry. Exactly. What exactly? Really is right and then from that moment on you're just like, oh, it's all a chess game for him.

[01:13:14] He actually is paying attention to everything that's going on. That's what's so brilliant about the directly sort of chronological approach to the fact that George is not one to drop exposition. Jesse Plumb. Yeah, right. So right like when someone says something like that to him,

[01:13:30] you're genuinely surprised right like about his brother. You're like Phil's his brother Phil but feels like a mean old rancher Bronco Henry's a friend like wait, what do you mean he went to Yale stuff like that? Like the way she layers in exposition without it ever feeling

[01:13:45] that way or layers and new dimensions to the same thing with creepy little Cody Peter. This is we got it. We got to talk more about when he gets the bunny. Yeah, and I'm like right because this is like a sweet sensitive

[01:13:57] kid and then like pretty much the next scene is him dissecting the bunny. Yeah, and Thomas and Mackenzie is like horrified right and I'm horrified but then I'm also like the kid lives on it. Why am I horrified by this?

[01:14:08] Like he lives on a ranch like animals are being killed every day. I don't know why this is upsetting me and isn't he a medical student like, you know, yeah, he wants to be but then there is something about the precision of what he's doing that

[01:14:17] you're like this is kind of unsettling that he knew exactly how to do this and let his mom bond with it. Yes. Yes, and then did it knowing he was going to do it all right and that whole scene is so good to where he comes in and

[01:14:30] she's in bed with he hides the bottle under the yeah. Yeah. I did there was someone I was talking to I can't remember who and I'm not going to blast and I also just can't remember who it was.

[01:14:41] I'm sorry, Bronco Henry the best talker there ever was ever tell you about the time. I talked to Bronco Henry. Right off and on. He talked to horse dead ones. I just hold on one second. Way through a mountain. Yes.

[01:14:52] What deadline saying that Spotify just signed a 200 million dollar deal with Bronco Henry. No take over podcasting Rogan is running for the hills. Complete creative control. No censorship Bronco Henry. You know Bronco Henry invented the phrase lock the gates.

[01:15:08] It was just stolen from him because he didn't have a podcast until now right Marin. He was just Marin when Marin bathes himself in the lake. He then he'll draw Henry's handkerchief. My cord. Yep. Bronco Henry was the best at locking gates.

[01:15:23] I ever saw that no one could lock a gate like Bronco Henry. Come on, but I'm wearing this thing. I was going to say someone I was talking to was like I was a little confused by the dunce character because it feels

[01:15:35] like she's got her shit together and then like the presence of cumberbatch just like completely unravels her right? Right. And I think watching the second time a I think this movie uses sort of like ellipses and jumps in time very interestingly

[01:15:51] which is the thing I think she does in a lot of her work right where you suddenly are like wait has a day past or six months right in the way that like most of the Plemons dunce courtship happens off screen.

[01:16:02] We see these two kind of very quiet moments. He mentions offhandedly that they've gotten married right? And we just we missed the wedding. We missed the progression of their relationship. I couldn't have reofficiated it feels like it goes from being

[01:16:13] a flirtation to I'm telling you we've been moving in. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Did he have a wife already or something? No, he's I think you busy being a bachelor and without going to he's like a sad sack. He's like a Marty.

[01:16:28] I have family older family members one of whom is no longer alive for whom that was true. And I think one of them was kind of a closet case and the other one married late in life and it destroyed the other

[01:16:42] brother because that was the Phil's assumption is well, he's what like my brother's like late. I mean in 1925 like late 30s and not married like I'm in the clear and then you have the successes that causes him to be

[01:16:57] attractive in a way right like the success they built up with right? Yeah, and then you have the devastating line that Phil doesn't hear but probably feels it anyway when Plemons says to Rose. It's so good to not be alone anymore.

[01:17:10] It's right, but you have your brother, but he doesn't think of him that way. Well, it's also that like fucking Phil is like negging him all the time like Phil is just constantly like the worst party guests like they go to the treating him like shit and like

[01:17:24] you know, Plemons what's George's character name? Yeah is is clearly a very sensitive guy and a thoughtful guy and intellectual guy even if he's not good at expressing himself and he's just like completely abandoned. It's like, you know, Phil playing this like mind game and then

[01:17:41] he's surrounded by a bunch of boys like the other fucking Cowboys in the group are just like young boyish hooligans and very cleverly painted as that, you know, there is that one scene where George walks into the barn and Phil is like

[01:17:56] doing some rope or some saddle shit with one of the Cowboys whose name we don't know and there's a look that it passes between them or he's like again, you know, right. I don't know if that's necessarily supposed to be happening

[01:18:06] right but like George knows he is fully not of that like that right that's that's Phil's business and his company and but they're not right. They're not company for him and his relationship with Phil is like this business agreement and the familial ties, but

[01:18:22] Phil is just constantly trying to fucking keep him in check. Like it does feel like Phil is very aware of the fact that he has to threaten George's masculinity in order to get George to be completely beholden to him, right? Right.

[01:18:37] So I think there's part of the mind game of just being like you can't fucking marry anyone you fat piece of shit. So the second he meets a woman I mean Phil's response is that sort of like what is this about? Is this about getting laid?

[01:18:49] You don't have to marry some old lady if you want to get laid. Yeah, I'll say I think that there's something, you know, my coming out experience was obviously I wasn't it wasn't in 1925 Montana, but like there if you have a close male

[01:19:04] friend and you're a gay kid, a boy. I'm sure this is true for other people as well. Like there is a resentment then kid that can sort of blurt out when you realize that for straight people not for every individual. It's just easy.

[01:19:20] You can just slip like this weird, you know, kind of overweight I'm sure who lives in his crap like this weird Crimson Peak Mansion like no, he can get married like he can he can find a lady in town.

[01:19:30] Yeah, and that's that and Phil knows that like for him. It's pretty much impossible because the one person he could do that with is dead. Like I just think there's something really like keenly observed about that. Yes, and that's why he sort of terrorizes dunce is that

[01:19:44] it's like she represents the thing that he cannot have, you know, and he throws the like you're an interloper. You're just trying to steal money, right? He doesn't really believe that right. He's just mad that she's there at all and he's trying to

[01:19:54] like but he's trying to create a read a public reason for why he wouldn't like her. That's like socially acceptable, which is that he's suspicious of her. Right that I don't could not make a home with someone he loved right?

[01:20:04] I do think he correctly sees in her that she is sad and vulnerable person. Now, obviously praise on weakness, right? As he decides to just jab it right, right, but like he could be nice to her. What is good? It was about him being nicer.

[01:20:19] Welcome to my home. Make yourself comfortable. Marry me. Do you want to play the banjo? But like obviously like there are moments where you're like they might have things in common, especially if he's this more well-read, you know, like right now. I want Hallie Meyershire's powers atop.

[01:20:36] Nice boy. Yes. Yeah, like three nice boys. I'd like one of the boys is a huge Franco Henry fan and it's like wait, your dad. Yeah, go Henry. Yeah, that'll be good. Candace Perkins in it. You Bronco Henry's daughter some more some more.

[01:20:53] So on cover batches last day of filming his last shot when shooting when the when the when when camping called cut the lights came on the cast the casting crew all pop champagne and started playing Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah because they

[01:21:09] were so happy that he would not be in character anymore. I hope they were basically like saying goodbye to Phil and saying hello to Benedict Benedict Cumberbatch. He was very embarrassed. Another thing about Dunst. She would sit in silence for hours before filming because

[01:21:23] she's like Rose can't vocalize. Yeah, she feels and I wanted to like get in that mind her performance is really good. Yeah. Okay. So the circle back I would say gets better every time I see it and I liked it a lot.

[01:21:36] I mean look watching this a second time. I thought was I can't wait to watch this a third time because it's clearly a movie that's just going to keep unfolding and there's so much in every single scene a weirdly very

[01:21:44] watchable movie for a movie that's quite serious and dramatic and sad like every time we throw it on him. But it's the thing where she just identifies some weird energy in every scene. That's not what you expect and you can't quite put your finger

[01:21:57] on whether it's a performance thing or whatever it is, but this not straw person friend of mine who said the thing about the Dunst performance, right? I'm like a through the ellipses of time. We don't know to what degree he's actually fucking with her right, right, right.

[01:22:14] So like I'm not saying there are worse things off screen that we're not seeing but the pervasiveness of it is perhaps only reflected to us in a couple key moments, right where it's like the banjo thing is just sort of like weird and eerie

[01:22:26] and certainly annoying and I think to some people they go like one then she starts like binge drinking the next day and it's like we are left to infer whether that has happened for 30 consecutive nights, right? Yeah, and also she is whole school year.

[01:22:40] You know, it could be a long time exactly right. He's gone for a long ass time and she is just a fragile person in general. She's a vulnerable person in general the fact that Cody Schmidt McPhee pushes the bottle away shows you this is a thing.

[01:22:54] She's had a pattern of doing in the past. She is a widow like there are just you know, she is together at the beginning of the film, but when you're watching it a second time you are aware of the fact that she is like

[01:23:06] made out of porcelain like she is just so delicate. I think that's one reason Phil resents her so much because he sees himself in that right his own slashing out of vulnerability because that great monologue he has near the

[01:23:18] end after she's given away the hides where he's like she was drunk pie-eyed like screaming you're like this is really an intense reaction to something. That's not a big deal. The worst combination that a she represents the sort of

[01:23:30] happy domestic life that he could never live himself right that his brother has access to and it's quote-unquote easy and be she's just like an open wound. Yeah, and I think he also those things are chill. You're not supposed to lock it all away.

[01:23:44] Yeah, when he first meets her there are little moments where she is showing tenderness is toward her Faye strange son right with it with a scowl on her face taking the flowers back off the table after he lights a cigarette with one and

[01:23:58] she's clearly supportive of him having him come to the ranch and I think that like he's envious of that kind of attentive care from a mother figure that he probably we can glean from his relationship with his mother that we'd like did doesn't

[01:24:10] have and yeah, she and she she represents care in a way that he's never felt and yet over the course of the movie. She starts to fall apart and starts kind of facing the wrong direction.

[01:24:23] I mean she thinks that Phil is going to turn her son into him into this like hardened asshole, but actually they're sharing something much deeper and unspoken that she does and and I think that Phil kind of sees that as her pie-eyed and whatever

[01:24:34] fuck right that like this woman he thought from a distance maybe actually was like one of the good ones. No, she's just as clueless as the rest. But I think there's another aspect to which is that to some degree, you know everything in his life is so aggressively

[01:24:50] construction it constructed and weaponized right that like whatever jealousy he feels of the fact that Cody is being treated with a sensitivity that he could not get from his mother as a child that perhaps is also a sign of a world slowly

[01:25:05] becoming more and more modern, you know, and that resentment there is also the fact that I think and this is indicated by the fact that he like after mocking the kid so thoroughly when he gets an opening decides to so completely take him

[01:25:19] under his wing and be like I'm going to fucking teach you how to be a man where I think he thinks it's almost a little bit irresponsible that Dunst isn't like slapping in the back of the head and going like toughen up.

[01:25:30] Oh, you're going to parade this kid in front of all these cowboys. You can't do that if she's not going to help you. I'm going to help right? He's bragging about his paper flowers to them. Like basically how fucking it horrifies you.

[01:25:41] On on or the sort of sense of shock you feel in the scene where he's like, oh no, sir. I made them, you know, like and it's like Jesus kid. What are you doing? Right? You can maybe do this in New Haven, but like, you know, not here.

[01:25:53] What do you guys think of Cody Smith McPhee as Peter the fourth performance? We haven't talked about it much yet. Okay, so just parallel for a second because we didn't talk about in the episode and I can't believe we didn't talk about

[01:26:05] because I think it's one of the master strokes of that movie, but Bright Star has the end credit sequence where you just have wish are reading Keith's poems. Absolutely over the titles, which is just like an incredible thing. I feel like I haven't seen movies. ASMR practically.

[01:26:19] Yeah, you're just tingling but also you're so used to end credit sequences having just like the score playing bloopers. I expected right start to have some bloopers. I was a little upset that it didn't actually write or if characters are talking in credits.

[01:26:32] It's usually in a jokey way like that to in a drama have a character's voice stay with you in the end credits is interesting comes in the bonnets on the wrong way around this. This movie has the opposite thing, which is it doesn't have

[01:26:43] a narrator but just this opening passage over the opening credits. You have his voice disassociated and then you enter into the film and like I completely forgotten that was the opening the first time I watched it.

[01:26:56] I did not clock and then as you say the second time you watch it, you're like, oh shit. I didn't realize telling you started with saying I'm going to kill someone to protect my mother. Right? Yeah.

[01:27:04] Yeah, it's like so upfront but then yes, then one of the first I mean you see the guys and they're fucking wrestling whatever and then when the first images you see after sort of just like Western tough guy miscellanea is the hyper close-up of the

[01:27:21] flower this like amazing artistry is like it was so cool. Yeah, right? Yeah, and then once you cut out why to this kid you're like he doesn't stand a fucking chance right especially because Cody Smith McVean is this sort of thin odd kind of angular and

[01:27:35] he worked I think with like a coach just so you know, he's just stooped over a little bit. He's got like sort of a funny posture crane kind of he's got the list obviously. Yeah, absolutely. You you are being a bit of a Phil Burbank where you're like

[01:27:47] don't say that in front of Phil Burbank. I barely met this guy but I know you shouldn't be talking about flowers in front of you. Yeah, shine drips. Holly so like he looks like Beaker from the Muppets like he's just a line. Have you seen young Slow West?

[01:28:00] No, yeah, it's great. I feel like most people haven't Richard has and I kept bringing it up to people are like this is a fairly he gives a fairly similar performance in that movie, but no one saw it. It's a really good little movie.

[01:28:11] It is a good movie. I recommend but I think you know that yeah that the discomfort you feel about or the sort of frustration you feel watching this kid just talk to people in a way that a certain that he

[01:28:21] really should not be, you know, for his own safety or whatever it you know, it's like I probably do it less now that I'm you know, a full adult but like when you're growing up and you have you know, a more effeminate voice or whatever like you

[01:28:34] do learn to code switch a little bit and I find myself if I'm going to buy jewel pods at the the little smoke shop down the street from my apartment. Hey, you know, hey, can I get a whatever you know, I'm not

[01:28:45] that's not actually what it is but you know and and and the frustration that Phil feels he's like, you know, oh little baby twinkie like you don't know the ways of the world. This is not you can't get by this way and he's right.

[01:28:57] But that they're there and is the critique of the whole society that they're living in. Yes, but but in the immediate terms like Phil is in a strange way toward the end kind of trying to protect him. Those scenes are very arrest.

[01:29:09] Those are the sort of back third of the movie. Yeah, we're going out to which is what probably gets Cody the Oscar. I mean, we're like all in agreement. We're talking before the report is that but it's also the the

[01:29:21] final reversal gets in the usual suspect where you're just like a he's assuming he kind of owns the last 30 40 minutes of the movie, right? So you walk out of it really like thinking about him the most and then the ending refrains his character so much kind of had

[01:29:36] the wool over your eyes, right? That kind of thing of like, oh shit. This character was like operating but it's funny that like spacey gets so much credit for the walk Kevin Spacey. Will you let me be Frank for one minute? Can I be frank for one minute?

[01:29:51] I'm not sure you get any credit for the rock Robert Robertson is direct that movie. I'm sorry. He shouldn't get any credit for the walk Robert Zemeckis directed that movie. It's what I said. I'm going to flip around one come.

[01:30:03] You taking the five you tear off a strip tongue. The walk at the end of the right that he has the scene with the reveal where you watch this physical transformation and I think people overstate the fucking that moment as an actor

[01:30:19] where it's like, oh, the whole guy you realize the whole time. It's the fucking hammer blow of that moment, right? Yeah, Cody doesn't even have a scene like that. No, it's really just that like your perception of him changes

[01:30:33] and there's no scene where then he does his fucking monologue or you see him have a totally different demeanor. You replay doing in the movie. That's what's fascinating about him now becoming this Oscar frontrunner is it's just a performance that like gains power

[01:30:45] the moment it ends when you then replay the scenes in your mind because even having watched the movie three times I still can't determine where when he does not do it. No, he's inscrutable because because there is an unavoidable

[01:30:57] you know a factor involved where the Native Americans come and she grows gives them the skins that like the hides like he couldn't have planned for that. No, but it works to his advantage because then he can be

[01:31:09] like, oh Phil I have this, you know, yeah, it's it's such an opaque performance in a good way. Yes that it's weird that it would win, you know an Oscar, but he's so compelling and he's so odd and as a certain of

[01:31:20] it look when I like him a lot as an actor. He of course is my beloved paranormal and I think very underrated performance. He is paranormal, but he was like, you know, he was the road was obviously like kind of his breakout thing.

[01:31:32] He's in Planet of the Apes right? Dawn's in dawn. He's in the second one. Yeah, he's very good in that. He was supposed to play young Wolverine in X-Men Origins Wolverine and then didn't for some reason is it Troy Sivan? Yes.

[01:31:46] No, he's in it, but I can't remember if he might it might be one of them. He's young. I think it's Troy Sivan. Do you think Asa Butterfield is like just torn up about all this? Yeah, absolutely fucking so well Asa Butterfield was trying

[01:31:58] to stretch himself to Cody. Yeah, he did try to kill Ben and Cumberbatch just to prove his point. Troy Sivan you are absolutely. Wow. And of course eventually that means he can play Nightcrawler is what it is. Right, right. Which I thought he was a very good Nightcrawler.

[01:32:12] I thought he was one of my favorite characters. I love Nightcrawler and I thought the thing about it is like I had always thought of him more as this kind of a performer sure odd kind of muted and in Nightcrawler.

[01:32:23] I remember him being fairly like jovial and sweet and that's it. Yeah, that's the balance of Nightcrawler which I love is that he's so self-loathing and uncomfortable but then he massive and defensive humor. He's cute in Dolomite is my name.

[01:32:38] He's like one of the film crew guys in that but I will say this like that's a movie where he showed up and I was like huh? That's what he looks like now. Sure because his his it's just physically. He is so striking.

[01:32:51] He is so odd and that's a movie like he's very sweet. He plays just sort of like normal like positive energy film nerd kid and all of that but when he shows up in this you're like that's a really good way to use the way that guy looks

[01:33:05] on camera. And as you said Richard like when he is showing so little tact for how to interact with this rowdy group of Macho men in the opening of the film not knowing that he shouldn't brag about the flowers like not only should he not put them

[01:33:21] out not only should he not admit that he made them. He also shouldn't give them any more information beyond that and he should avoid s's and not say it's for drips, you know, like all this stuff and I would say drips like

[01:33:32] obviously like we want a world where he can do whatever and be whoever he is but like in these narrow confines like come on like we joked about this on our we bought a zoo episode 87 years ago, but where you're like the fact that movie is

[01:33:45] called we bought a zoo makes it so hard to defend because it's like the kid showing up at school gets picked on wearing the worst t-shirt and you're just like change. You wear the t-shirt. Don't wear the shirt. All right.

[01:33:55] I know you like it, but you have to understand like my friends in high school. We want to play Magic Gathering. I'd be like, right? Yes, but yes, I was actually play sports, but that's why even watching a second third times like I find that the

[01:34:09] the Dunst Clemens Cumberbatch performances unfold for me in different ways on a second viewing. Cody remains totally elusive and the lack of self-awareness and that opening scene makes it so hard to believe that he can actually be in control of his surroundings at any point

[01:34:28] in the film and gauging when that happens is hard. I think you kind of have to at least allow the possibility that like he knows and doesn't care and when he has that scene much later with Phil where he says that his father

[01:34:44] called him strong and feels like what and you're like, no, he is though in a way and Phil is so flummoxed by that because it is this decidedly on cowboy stoicism kind of strength. That's how he's defeated right?

[01:34:55] You cannot see this kid as he can't see him coming. He's developed an alternative form of strength. I mean, this is why he has weaponized his critical thinking skills into forms of defense and viewed that way the scene

[01:35:10] in the restaurant is like that kid like being the strongest person in the room, right? Like no, I'm going to say whatever I'm going to say. I'm going to tell you I made these flowers. I don't care. The only problem is he upsets his mother.

[01:35:20] Like, you know, that's the thing is sort of, you know, it splashes onto her even though he is does seem kind of impervious and weirdly leads to all everything happening because it's how George ingratiates himself to her and see this is the thing with this fucking movie.

[01:35:32] You can zoom in on any one scene unpack it for two hours. Yeah, like just examining the dynamics and trying to understand the intentions of people. The way he uses the comb, you know how he's like, yeah, like

[01:35:43] drag his thumb across the teeth and it like annoyed and you're like, oh, this is like anxiety. Like is this like a coping thing for him? And Cody Smith McPhee was like, that's how I want you to think about it.

[01:35:53] But I think about it as his methodically thinking through step-by-step what he's thinking he's going to do next. Like that's what I wanted the comb to be. That's cool. It's pretty cool. That's cool. Yeah, it is. It is just kind of funny that he's probably gonna win and

[01:36:08] he's very good actor. It's a good body of work, but I don't think has been thought of in that like, well clearly this is one of the greatest young actors. Yeah, he's very respected. He works constantly. He's worked in all sorts of different things, but I feel

[01:36:21] like he was never on those lists even like compared to someone like as a Butterfield who just like started as a kid and was fucking like running the table and all these guys and then was earmarked for Spider-Man and you know, yeah.

[01:36:33] Yeah, it's it's it's a very very fascinating for I mean, I wonder where he goes after this. Yeah, you know because you're like you want to grab him and just go like Cody whatever you do. Don't play a Bond villain like don't right.

[01:36:47] You don't do the easy things are going to lie right you playing villains and right? Yeah, that's don't yeah. Don't be some sort of you know, nerd mark of a movies unsettling like some like, you know, prestige horror movie, you know,

[01:36:58] like you're going to do it do the Domino Gleason thing where you work a lot so you can do balance like that but you do other stuff, right? Because like I feel like that's what Domino Gleason was smart about it was like, yeah, I'll play a villain.

[01:37:10] I'll play a weirdo right but I'll also play a romantic. I'll play sweetie pies. Yeah play about time or right? Yeah. Yeah, he's in that right? That's him. My dad. It's a great movie. Johnny Greenwood did the score to this film. It's incredible.

[01:37:24] Yeah watching this movie with captions. My favorite part is just in brackets uneasy music over and over again. Now, I mean, I'm not wrong that there will be blood was his first score right like his first movie score. Thank you. Right?

[01:37:39] Yeah, and I remember yes, it was apart from that thing and then he did in Conto and then this right we don't talk about Bronco Henry. We don't talk about us though, but I talked about like that.

[01:37:56] It is a profound cinema memory for me sitting and I was in the Phoenix Theater is where I saw there will be blood and like, you know it that opening shot of just a landscape and the music's like and I was just like the fuck is going on

[01:38:08] just like completely squirming in my seat. I love his score so much. I love that. He'll kind of vanish for a few years because he doesn't need the money. Sure. He's not a working composer in that way. Yeah, he's in this band called Radiohead.

[01:38:21] I don't know if you guys have heard it and then he'll just pop back in and do the Spencer and dog score this year and you're like these are both like distinctive and wonderful pieces of music. Was there a third score this year was it just those just

[01:38:32] those two? I mean, you know the thing he did before that his most underrated score obviously the Phantom Threat score is incredible, but the you were never really here score is so good like you need to tell me that no, which I think was just him emptying metal

[01:38:43] cans down a staircase, but it's incredible. But then there's there's the main piano theme in that movie which then they replay on strings and whatever I listen at score all the fucking time. It's a little bit of a jangly listen if you're just taking a walk.

[01:38:57] There is there these incredibly romantic tracks on it in between the ones that sound like metal machine music. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, he's probably going to win an Oscar to write. I mean, I have to predict this movie winning all these Oscars and then what you got now.

[01:39:10] But here's what's funny about it is you're like she feels kind of unbeatable for director right coding probably has it by default and then you're like she probably wins screenplay but then in all these other categories and then you're like

[01:39:24] there's a very good chance of wins best picture. It would be sort of consider the odds on favorite at this point, but then the other categories where I'm like, well Will Smith probably has it locked up unless dog is so unstoppable

[01:39:35] that they give it to Cumberbatch Ariana DeBose probably has it locked up and less dog is so unstoppable that they give it to Dunst. Like I also think it's the number two in a bunch of categories. Yeah. Yeah, right.

[01:39:46] It's a it's a consensus favorite which is funny because it's a very distinct film. Yeah, but it makes sense. Well, I mean, you know, this is such a trite thing to say but it's like, you know, when I saw power the dog, you know,

[01:39:57] back last summer like we were everyone was so excited because it was like, oh finally something for Kirsten Dunst. It's definitely gonna be her first nomination. She could easily win. Yeah, you know, we knew dimly that West Side Story was out

[01:40:08] there and that Anita is a role that you know is kind of hard to argue with in terms of winning an award but like it's just so silly that they're even being thrown into comparison. I mean like that. Yes, yes. It's a different fucking thing. Totally different thing.

[01:40:20] Totally. And that's no fault of Dunst or whatever. It's just that like I think that they will want to spread the wealth and like they want to give something to West Side Story and that's an easy one.

[01:40:29] And just as they, you know, they could, you know, maybe go direct or go to somebody else, but I don't think so. I will say this to Dunst's credit. I mean this entirely is a compliment to her. There is a version of this role where other actresses could

[01:40:46] have played it and had an easier walk to winning an Oscar by blowing out some of the breakdown scenes. Yeah, and I think it is to Dunst's credit and the performance and the film will age better because of it that she doesn't

[01:41:00] go for the huge fucking Oscar clip and it's a very, very well-observed specific humanly rendered portrayal of this person rather than the overly dramatic Oscar version of it. I'm realizing the third thing Greenwood worked on was Licorice Pizza, which I believe he has some brief involvement with.

[01:41:18] Oh, he composed one piece of music for it. Right. Sorry. Right. Yeah. No, I knew there was another. Yeah, I think there's like it's like five minutes of right. Yeah, he made all the waterbeds. He had the hose. Ben, you haven't talked. You like dog.

[01:41:35] Yeah, I mean, I could have used more quiet tension, you know, not enough, not enough for me to make it loud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. It was loud. Exactly. Yeah, I had to turn the tension button down on my remote. Yeah.

[01:41:52] Or up, I guess I want anyway. Anyway, what do I want to say about it? I mean, are we at the end of the episode? I mean, not really down or winding down. Okay. Do you want me to refer to my notes, please? Please.

[01:42:04] Okay, Ben's taking out a notepad. Okay. Smoking in bed when he's listening to them kind of have their first night. Their first like, yeah slumber. Yeah party. Yeah. That is a like a really cinematic moment of peeping. Yeah. I never know what he's going to say.

[01:42:30] Me neither and and to think he was just gonna let that go unsaid. He had it written down on a notepad and if you hadn't asked him, I wasn't setting him up. I had no idea. You had no idea. You never know.

[01:42:41] He didn't have the energy of call on me. I have something to say. I was just kind of realizing like that's been quiet. Yeah, peeping of the ears. It's a good point. We rarely think of the peep of the years, right? Yeah.

[01:42:52] No, I mean it's you know, historically I would say there's probably a lot of that going on. I mean the walls are thin. There's not that much going on a lot of other noise. So that older maid is definitely, you know, Genevieve Lemon, sweetie sweetie herself. Right? Yeah.

[01:43:09] Oh my God. Okay. And another thing I'm Thomas and Mackenzie. We haven't even mentioned her but she's in an I assume just to work with Jane Campion. And it was a school assignment. She had to she was sent there by her teacher.

[01:43:21] Now you have to go be in Jane Campion's movie work study. Rats. Okay, Ben note number two on the notepad. She tells a story that is, you know, very era appropriate. It's like a fable about the coffin with the hair growing.

[01:43:37] Hair full of there's something about that was so striking to me. It's such an a like a side. I don't know how it would necessarily relate. It's gray only at the end. Well, no, it's right. It's great. Only at the end.

[01:43:47] That was just a moment that to me thing. Yeah, it's just like there's so much dense. Her films are so dense. There's so much going on that even just that little moment. I don't even know what it says about the story. Look the title itself.

[01:44:03] You're watching the whole movie. You're like why the fuck is this thing called power of the dog? Someone's not looking at the shadows in the mountains. This is my point. And that that's this bonding moment for him.

[01:44:12] We like cover match plays that so well, you see the dog too. Right? Yeah. Yeah, he's like, did you did someone tell you like, you know, like yeah that that that I mean obviously it's a biblical verse

[01:44:23] deliver my sword from the soul my precious life in the power of the dogs. I don't know my Bible. I don't really know my darling in the film. Yeah, right, which is meant not in like a romantic. Sure. It's a different me.

[01:44:33] Yeah, but yeah, it's from the Psalms. What does it mean though? It means basically it's kind of protection. He'd lit oppressors and enemies. Right? Phil is deeming this necessary. He has to get I mean, sorry enough.

[01:44:49] Peter has to get rid of Phil to protect like I think there's also stuff about inner demons and closeted things, you know, like let me kind of destroy the thing in me. That's that's you know, hounding me. Let me destroy in others what I do.

[01:45:05] The song is like asking God. Yeah. And I do think that the final couple of shots, you know from that him reading the Psalm to the end like I mean, maybe I'm totally off base but I'm like I think that George needs to be a little worried.

[01:45:20] You know, I don't know that this kid is done protecting his mother. There's this sort of implication and he mentions this in the book. This is not implied but in the movie you do kind of have this weird suspicion of like wait, did he kill his dad too?

[01:45:31] Like sure is that which they were like we intentionally did not want to speak to that. We also kind of do let it be a thought you might have. Yeah, right. Like what is this? Yeah, right. Where where does this I don't think it's like a movie about

[01:45:44] like the birth of a serial killer. I know just that like this kid like maybe has a pretty too intense read on like protection like, you know, slippery slope once you kill one. Yeah, anthrax. Yeah. Now I think Jane just likes a bone boy like from what we've

[01:46:01] seen with you know, there's that prominent character on top Lake who's got a lot of wishbone bones don't lie. Right. So never lie. I'm gonna realize sorry and then yeah similar with this character. He has a prominent human skull. Yes in his room.

[01:46:15] Another thing I love is that he's he's such a good draftsman when he's dissecting the rabbit. I mean that seems so fascinating because she she's like about the carrot and he's like leave and he's not even doing the

[01:46:25] like get out right just like you're not going to be into this leave and she's like I want to give him the carrot. He doesn't want to care. There's no interest and then when she walks up there's no like sort of like you got me.

[01:46:37] There's no sort of like trying to hide it, right? There's that weird element of like why aren't you reacting to me catching you doing this and then he just very calmly goes back to his drawing of it, which is so well done. Yeah, that's another thing.

[01:46:49] I love is the early glimpse. We see a Phil diarying and how good his penmanship is and you're like a good little clue, right? Because you're just like that feels weird that this guy would Journal when he writes in the let alone that he would guess

[01:47:02] look at the restaurant. Yes, it's like shitty bourbon or whatever. It's like wait, he like where did he go to finishing school? Right? Yeah, right. Sorry Ben you were saying Clemens fits good hats. Nice. Nice big white hats his like this this like the suits the

[01:47:20] air appropriate suits. He's looking like a fucking snack. I'm in looking really good. I want to chow down. He's hungry. I have a funny Fleming set a snack story that I'll tell you what fair. Okay, wow. Interesting drawing rabbit drawing. I don't know. Okay.

[01:47:42] Oh and all right the handkerchief work. What did we think of it? So obviously we haven't really talked about Phil stash his muscle magazines which Bronco Henry wrote his name on. Yeah, that all son of a bitch property of Bronco Henry.

[01:47:57] I used to be the chief critic for physique world. But they folded it is such a funny thing to think about like in a in a pre sort of like openly pornographic industry that there'd be things like no, I just buy magazines when I for

[01:48:14] admire the human it's a new this journal or whatever, you know, like people would have and it's funny that like they were that like even back then people were like no, we know what it's for. Yeah, right. There was no hiding.

[01:48:25] We're gonna like pretend it's not right, right. We're not making these so people can like admire like people's you know, the anatomy base, but you're like, what are the articles like in those because obviously everyone knows what they're buying short stories. It was a good meal.

[01:48:40] We had a good party. Yeah, everyone's buying them. There was the arise chast cartoon. Yeah, of course. She's so funny. They know what they're getting right and then I'm going crazy this but but then I left because everyone signed this letter

[01:48:55] about cancel culture and I was like it was just they also did like they pivoted to video right? That was the other thing. They did. Yeah, so Jim Jim Spanfeller from Geo Media bought us and yeah,

[01:49:07] then we all we all to move to LA and so we're right by out. So yeah, it wouldn't be when give me right and which quince only happened right after the unionization. It was like immediately. They're telling you.

[01:49:16] Oh, you moved to LA no relocation costs or you lose your job Ben. Sorry, though. It's okay. There is a moment there watching the movie where I thought when the Native American of you know, father son they have a box.

[01:49:34] I was like are they like where is this movie about to be like them reckoning with the porn that was found in the woods. Oh wow. Like that's what I truly thought was about to happen there for a moment. Yeah.

[01:49:46] I mean obviously that wasn't the case the power of the do we think that so I'm that's vintage porn in the woods. My that's the oldest porn in the woods. I just like finding your dad's playboys or whatever, but it's yes woods porn.

[01:49:59] My question is so there's a scene where Phil catches the kid look like where he's bathing or whatever and then he chases after whatever and then shortly thereafter Phil decides to kind of change his tack and be like we started on the wrong foot

[01:50:13] whatever do you think there's any vague thing that like maybe Phil knows that he found the porn feels afraid because he chases him away. Right like you said like yeah, he's afraid he'll in that like he would never admit to being afraid that his quote-unquote

[01:50:28] secret will be revealed right but I guess that's just like maybe I should better to have him close by right and now do you think that don't you think though if you put porn in the woods you kind of want someone to find it like isn't that kind

[01:50:38] of part of it? Well, not hiding it very like clearly everyone's looking at me, but it is. But it is far away. You have a bag in your apartment with what it said it says what's porn and it's full and it's sitting by the door.

[01:50:52] So, okay, the principle the woods porn kind of a take a penny leave a penny thing that it's like if you're of the age that you should buy the porn you give it back to the woods that the next generation can have a lending library. Yeah, right.

[01:51:04] Yeah, like right but it's one reason he's so dirty like when He's going out to that Lake. He's like letting off the pressure valve, right? Like so like it's like sort of a special place for him. He can't go there that often.

[01:51:18] Yeah, this is my parents are gone for the day. Right, right kind of yeah, and those bathing scenes are so again again the first time you're watching your like what should I be looking for here? You know what I mean?

[01:51:29] Some of those I mean the first time I was watching I heard about the pack and I didn't catch it this time. I was eagle-eyed it like flaps up. It does flat. He scrubs and it does a flap up to the belly button almost.

[01:51:41] Yeah, you're not wrong that that is what Benedict Cumberbatch his penis does in the film, but it's also it's also just like right in those scenes are like it's so quiet. Yeah, like this doesn't seem plot centric. Like why am I seeing him bathe all of a sudden?

[01:51:57] You're sort of like this indulgent like cinematic poetry sort of shit. Is she just giving me is it your shot like he's sort of getting in touch with the earth Rooney Mara discovering carpeting for the first time and song to song. Ever seen that movie?

[01:52:10] Yeah, she doesn't know what a window or a rug is apparently because she's just like what is yeah anyway, I want to do Malek. We should do him. We should do him. There was a great movie at Sundance called you won't be

[01:52:21] alone that people are unfavorably comparing to Malek which I think is unfair but I like it. I think it's a nice homage to him. I also I like any time a movie is compared to Malek. I'm like, yeah, I'll see that. Sure. Sure.

[01:52:31] That's why you're gonna see dog with me. Yeah, I saw I took my dad to see jackass and he was just like flummox during the dog trailer like every other trailer. He was like this looks like the worst thing I've ever seen.

[01:52:43] He kept on saying that to like four consecutive trailers in a row. This what's a concerted the Dave Grohl movie Uncharted of course nailed it the Dave Grohl haunted the fucking album recording movie Northman. They didn't play Northmen God.

[01:52:59] I mean it was like two more things like Uncharted are coming out soon. City lost city. Yes. Yes, it was very down. I I said, I think this looks charming. You went really Batman. He had no response to but then the dog trailer camp and he

[01:53:13] was just like what is this dog? Yeah, it's not even really clear like what it's about dog dog. It's just about dog dog. The poster has a really annoying tagline. Can do you have it handy? I'm trying to find it. I'm directed by our chain tater.

[01:53:27] So it's not about dog the bounty hunter. It's not about dog the bounty hunter. Here is the posters tagline Channing Tatum. And then there's a picture of him sitting in a pick no by a pickup truck and there's a dog in there too.

[01:53:39] And the tagline is a filthy animal unfit for human company and oh yeah, and feels really like dated. I don't know. I don't know. I mean the movie is I don't know if you guys know this but it's a prequel to Alex Garland's film men, which is coming

[01:53:56] out next. Oh good. I don't know. Um, anyway, one last grace note on Jane Campion who we are wrapping up here and let's Ben has any more notes. What's this? Okay. Yeah. What did you guys think of the film? I liked it. Yeah, very good. It's okay.

[01:54:15] All right. Well then should we just stop recording? No, no, no, no. Carry on. Carry on. What did y'all think of the significance of the mother giving the rings to Kirsten's character at the funeral? I could not figure that out.

[01:54:32] I'm assuming it's his and I this is my guess like that. She was like he he was such a monster to you that here you go. I think that might be some of it. Yeah, some sympathy. Yeah, I think she might also maybe see in her the faintest

[01:54:49] possibility of grandchildren. And so she's trying to bridge the gap. That's the weird thing is that Phil I think kind of despite his arousability was I think the favorite of the parents, you know, or the kind of golden, you know, because he's the smart

[01:55:03] one and I think that like now that he's gone. She's like I have to turn somewhere else and like, okay, that makes you know, yeah, right? I think I think she was still holding out hope that Phil would like continue the lineage at some point.

[01:55:16] Yeah, you know for sure. Yeah, he's impressive. And when the frickin governor comes over this wife, he's like I want to meet this guy. Yeah, I keep hearing about and it's implied that the Phil's mom that she and Bronco Henry were like roommates in New York City, right?

[01:55:28] And they had two wacky friends. I mean Richard. Five. Ben anything else? That's it. No, the notes are done. I just want to say well, we're done. We're done with camping. We will be doing China girl. We haven't released a recorded episode yet.

[01:55:45] So I suppose we'll have one more dip. But we're we're wrapping up more dip in the lake. Very fun miniseries. I'm very so fun. Yeah, the next thing she says she's doing is starting a pop-up film school in New Zealand.

[01:55:57] She's going to have 10 students that she teaches movies to moviemaking to with Netflix's support. I guess they gave her money do this. I am always for she's basically like a wisdom, you know spending money on anything like that right to sort of like mitigate the other stuff.

[01:56:14] But I mean, she's she's 67 notice. There must be a film school run by James a carbon neutral. Yeah, she's 67 years old like she could absolutely make more movies, but she does always sort of seem like someone who's like well when something feels good. I'll be interested right?

[01:56:29] Like it's not like she's like about to go work on X. Yeah, but it'll be very interesting to see what she does after this, you know, the depressing stat that was getting thrown around yesterday at the time. The first one we nominated for to directing us ever.

[01:56:43] Well, I don't know why people are shocked by this is like five total. It's not shocking but it does make you realize that so often it was the exact arc. She has where it's like you make this breakthrough and then

[01:56:54] they go like fuck is this going to be the first female director who builds like a body of work that is held up in the pantheon right by you know, the literati at the time and what often happens is like Sofia Coppola everyone turns on Marie Antoinette

[01:57:07] and then the next couple are just like I don't know is that like the you know, and like we are all in this room people who like Sofia Coppola's movies, but she has never returned to the heights of loss and translation much in the same way

[01:57:19] that like with the crossover to the general public and the Oscars and all that sort of shit much in the same way that like piano cast this incredibly large shadow over her, you know, over campion's career. Yeah. I mean, yeah, and even Bigelow in this weird sense.

[01:57:35] Yes, Oscar has struggled to like figure out. I mean Zero Dark Thirty you felt okay huge, right? And she's just like but she didn't get nominated for it. She didn't which was you know, I mean that was a weird year. Yeah, and then Detroit just completely destroyed right?

[01:57:47] And now she hasn't made a movie in five years. She should make another movie. She should but yes, it's that it's that point. It's like that was the one that was surprising was Bigelow not getting the Zero Dark Thirty nomination.

[01:57:58] And then I would also say Gerwig not getting the Little Women nomination was a little absurd. Yeah, that was the Bigelow thing that the worm had turned a little bit and in terms of like the pushback against the torture stuff.

[01:58:09] Yeah, that movie went from such a fucking lightning round. Favorite yeah to I feel like slightly and obviously was a box office success, but then it was slightly on the downswing when people were voting. It was a huge hit but it felt like the controversy around

[01:58:24] the movie supercharged its box office at the same time as it killed its Oscar chances. Yeah, because it did feel like there were two weeks there where you were like is this going to win picture director and is Chastain on the globe?

[01:58:35] Is Chastain going to win the actress right? And then yeah, and then I'll dissipate. I don't know that's a movie. We've already spent two hours talking about it. Right? I mean, you know Gerwig missed that nomination but like it was Bong Joon-ho Tarantino Scorsese Sam Mendes for 1917 and

[01:58:50] Todd Phillips for a movie called Retired Bit don't know that one right? That's the one I was hoping that movie made a billion dollars. Yeah, you know obviously there was a reason he was retired bit the one he produced. Yeah. Anyway, but no, it's very exciting.

[01:59:02] Obviously she got another nomination. I agree the Griffin she could probably do whatever she wanted right now. I just have no idea if she's probably waiting for something that intrigues. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, curious to see what it is. Do we want to do rankings here?

[01:59:17] Do you want to do the China Girl episode? No, I think we should do them here because this is dropping after the China Girl episode. Oh, no, you know what? It's not. Oh China girl is actually dropping six days five days later. So save it. Okay.

[01:59:30] I mean on the patreon. That's the only thing do people will be mad that we pay wall or rankings. People I've got a ranking. This is I'm going to say this. This is the hardest ranking I've ever done interesting. Now.

[01:59:42] Can I just say something you can people be mad? I'm really glad you said that this is another thing. My dad said to me the other night. I went to see Jackass. He was like, do you feel like everyone's just like really mad these days?

[01:59:54] So here's how I pick up the phone. I think someone's angry. He's got Pete's got the pulse of the nation. He's pretty tough. I thought it was a pretty striking insight for my father. Do you guys not consider this movie to have box office?

[02:00:05] I was about to ask about that unreported. It's it. It's unreported. Obviously even for the theatricals. Yeah, like because it wasn't it like I have seen or they don't have Netflix just four walls. It just don't they just don't report box.

[02:00:18] Right and and like with red notice and shit. They'll like sort of talk about her. I guess it's playing in enough theaters that those theaters individually report stuff and they get a rough estimate. Yeah, but like something like this. There's no fucking reportable number.

[02:00:31] The only thing is we can do the box office game for the week. It came out but we did just do it because it's the same weekend as Benedetta. Well, then never mind. Yeah, then never mind. What were the top 10 movies on Netflix the week it from me?

[02:00:46] Red notice. I wonder if we can you look that up maybe like is that even trust those not you know, I don't need you. You don't you don't think they're you don't think they're being on the level.

[02:00:55] No, I don't that's why I'm like I can tell that power of the dog was actually a cross over tell when something permeates to when you're surprised by the people who have watched it and the speed at which they watched it how quickly you caught on. Yeah.

[02:01:10] Well, I'll tell you the top 10 movies on Netflix right now. Now, it's a bunch of bullshit. I don't even want to get into this but remember when Miss Sloan was on there for like three months. No, she took on the whole industry by herself.

[02:01:20] These things are obviously impossible tabulate, but I remembering some article that was like there's a chance that Secret Life of pets 2 is the most watched movie in Netflix history like Netflix won't admit it but like come on, but it's in the way that YouTube like children's programming right?

[02:01:37] You can you know videos have a billion views. It's just like exactly in the middle and something about the fact that movie kind of underperformed at the box office means that everyone waited for Netflix. Yeah, according to Flix Patrol.

[02:01:48] Okay, which I am not going to investigate how significant this is enough of the sequel on December 3rd 2021 power of the dog was the number one movie on Netflix a day of its release Richard. I don't even know if it's Richard is equal to 20.

[02:02:04] 20 number two was a film. You just mentioned red notice red notice number three was what looks like a French comedy about a millionaire trying to help his spoiled children be better people. It's a film. That's a picture. It's a film. What's it called? Spoiled Brats.

[02:02:25] Okay, there's also something called single all the way. Oh, it's gay Michael Urie Christmas movie. Oh that one where it's like he brings his friend home for the holidays and all his to family fake boyfriend or like why is it your real boy?

[02:02:39] Yeah season but with a boy. No, they know that he's gay, but he doesn't want people to know that he's single and gay. So he brings his platonic gay friend home as his boyfriend, but then that get that that is they figure out pretty soon

[02:02:53] and then they set him up with a local guy play right Luke McFarlane, right? And then he's like perfect on paper, but then the friend is there and then of course maybe stop talking about a film you wrote and directed. I'm just saying look.

[02:03:03] I'm here to plug things. I mean, I didn't come out here for free and also this is a great example of like the blank check in effect, which is like you make the trolls movies. Those are your big popular films that get to go make your

[02:03:12] small personal was I not clear that single all the way is all trolls number five on the Netflix chart. Yeah is of course everyone's favorite two movie stars in a great Christmas classic. It's Brooke Shields and Carrie Elwes. What's the film called? Castle fucking Christ.

[02:03:28] What's it called a castle for Christmas a castle for Christmas come home to where your dreams begin. I have no idea what this movie is about. Let's see to escape a scandal a best-selling author goes to Scotland where she falls in love with a castle and faces

[02:03:41] off with the grumpy Duke who owns it. Oh, you know in cartoons, you're not charmed, you know, like in cartoons when there's a bad smell on the flower goes the recorders doing that right now. It's just like I assume recorders.

[02:03:57] I'm going to rubber and people say Netflix is full of garbage if you were indexing this episode like on a website and you had to put like, you know tags or whatever it would be like, you know, Jane Campion power of the dog Annie Prue

[02:04:11] a castle for Christmas single all the way all mentioned in one episode. Oh, you know what? I realized this is worldwide charts. That's how that spoiled Bratz movie got in there, but even still it's like look that is a positive of Netflix is it does

[02:04:25] feel like people are watching international shit that subtitles kind of are no longer a hindrance. That is true, but I will say in America. It went power of the dog. Okay single all the way was three castle for Christmas

[02:04:36] was for Halle Berry's bruised was five her boxing film an example of a movie that probably has been under reported and how many people watch I would not be surprised if that was like one of the 10 most watched things the last year on Netflix.

[02:04:49] Agree number two was the Eddie Murphy Martin Lawrence comedy life. Wow, these weird like that can TBS movies that just like Yeah, anyway. Yeah, we should do rankings Richard. Do you want to talk about the third Trolls movie which is

[02:05:07] in theaters November 17 2023 or should we wait for plugs? I'm I mean, I don't think I'm legally allowed to do that. It is it's about the coronavirus right? I mean like explicitly. I mean, I guess you could say that I mean, so it's actually

[02:05:21] it's kind of an allegory me and David Sirota put it together. So it's not explicitly about it. But like it's clear if you if you like get it you get it but like critics are going to hate it because they hate

[02:05:32] that, you know, they like being told the truth, right? Exactly. It's just a little too blunt for them. Right? Yeah, my ranking Griffin. Well, actually what's yours? Do you have one you do yours first? Well, I think the most basically the top four for me are very close.

[02:05:48] I don't maybe you don't agree. There are four movies. I adore okay, and I have them ranked like this. Number one Bright Star number two the piano number three in the cut number four power of the dog.

[02:06:00] And if you caught me on another day, I might put him in a different order. Then I would have sweetie which I love then Angel at my table and then I think I go Holy Smoke Portrait of a Lady. I'm going to put two friends last last friends.

[02:06:14] Yeah, that's my nine. Okay, and I feel confident about five to nine but I don't about one to four one to four is sort of tough for me. I'm like, how do I not have the piano number one, but I love Bright Star so deeply.

[02:06:27] I mean, she's obviously she's one of your favorite filmmakers and you've seen all these movies more times than I have a lot of the more fresh watches for me. My list might be somewhat different than yours. I'm going to go bottom up.

[02:06:38] Yeah, it's kind of easier to organize that way two friends is last well, no disrespect, but also they're kind of stepping on our territory. Yeah, so actually maybe they should watch it back then I go Portrait of a Lady which is the fire enough for you.

[02:06:52] It's the only other one. I'm not like pretty gripped by right because even I guess you kind of have to bite default put Holy Smoke next but I I'm pretty fascinated by that movie and it stuck with me a weird amount even though I think it's a mess.

[02:07:11] Okay, then I would go see this is where I may be different from you. Whatever. It's fine. I go sweetie. Uh-huh. Then I go bright star. Angel at my table really surprised me. I love it.

[02:07:26] Then I go piano then I go power of the dog power the dog are far off. Oh, I forgot in the cut you did in the cut goes in between Angel my table and sweetie. Okay, I'm sort of losing the thread here, but I guess that's fifth.

[02:07:40] Okay, two friends ninth Portrait of a Lady Holy Smoke. Yeah, then I go sweet in the car. Angel at my table bright star piano, whatever whatever whatever the I think you already just jumped right star a couple spots

[02:07:58] but I don't know listeners figure it out top of the lake remains my favorite thing. She's done by China girl. No, so we're going to watch that soon. Okay, guys don't rank Billboard dad or winning London or passport to Paris.

[02:08:12] We're really try to be very specific about TV doesn't fit into main rankings, but it's tough with her because I fair enough because because Billboard dad didn't play festivals. Well, it was at a competition. It was a market screening.

[02:08:26] It can but yeah, it was in the it was in the Marche. Yeah, along with for Bruce Willis movie Richard. Do you have anything to plug? No, just the VF stuff. Obviously, I have a review of power the dog written in a pre-festival Hayes many months ago.

[02:08:44] If people want to read it, I actually think very differently about the movie that now than I did then but on that's it just agreed to be off list a little bit men podcast remind me what

[02:08:53] your number one in the year was Oh worst person in the world. Yeah. Yeah, same movie and it got an Oscar nomination. I didn't expect it to which I was a very pleasant. I thought that maybe we're not a might squeak in there somehow,

[02:09:05] but it was just I was too proud. I'd love to see it. But yeah, yeah, guys Ricardo's I'm like 85% done with it. And I'll send it to both of you guys. I've almost successfully compiled the entire worst person in the world soundtrack as a playlist.

[02:09:25] Ooh, I want when I saw I've been waiting to finish it to tell you. Oh, that's almost please. Yeah, when I took a lot of work because there's a lot of fucking I was so obsessed with you know, the waters of March same cover

[02:09:37] and listen to it on a loop and I when I was at can you had to get a if you were an American because they didn't accept your vaccination like QR code. You had to get a test every two days and for whatever reason

[02:09:48] maybe it's just France the people administering the test were like these beautiful like French 26 year old guys. And so I showed up that song blaring in my headphones weeping and I'm like, here's my can I get my COVID test please and he

[02:10:00] looked at me like I was crazy. So I'm eager to have that time. I have almost all the songs now and I'm trying to get the order correct. What was your number one of the year Griffin? I just saw that.

[02:10:13] Yeah, and so it's still settling for me for a little bit as of this moment. There's still some other things. I need to see a couple other big ones. My number one is still French dispatch, which I am on and I love it. I mean, I love that.

[02:10:27] That's normal. Yeah, but worst person in the world's maybe the closest threat. French dispatch completely flaming out at the Oscars was interesting, but I think anyone at Telluride could have told you that was going to happen because it went over so badly there.

[02:10:40] The other thing that's wild is that people were like, I can't believe it didn't even get cinematography or costume art direction all this stuff and it's like fucking Grand Budapest is his only movie that has ever performed in the craft categories.

[02:10:55] It is bizarre for how much he is thought of as like Mr. Visual craft bespoke. What have you that like his only other nominations are writing and fucking animated for any of his films, right? He's never gotten an acting nomination.

[02:11:10] Not even has been which Budapest is the only one that got other categories. It's bizarre because it feels like yes, he should be getting those fucking Nightmare Alley kind of I think it should have gotten at least like or craft now. Yeah. Yes. It's absurd.

[02:11:26] We have a plug. A special guest plug. That's right from a friend of the podcast. John Hodgman who left a voicemail that I would like to be back on the show. What are we doing? I know idiots fucking idiots blowing this fucking celeb.

[02:11:43] Okay, so I'm going to play this and then I'll send you the track swap out so you can drop it in. Yeah, okay. Hey Griffin. Hey David. It's John Hodgman here. Come in. Remember the old days how we know each other and everything.

[02:11:59] Hey, I'm sorry to use the blank check voicemail account for this but Griffin hasn't been returning my texts and I sent a guy over to his apartment to hand deliver a letter but he escaped by shinnying down a pipe in an alley.

[02:12:10] So I don't know why he's avoiding me but Griffin I love the fact that you're orko in He-Man's of the Universe. I've enjoyed seeing you promoting that on your social media. I'm a little concerned that you've spent no time promoting

[02:12:27] your role as Lance in Dicktown the animated show on FX and Hulu that I created with David Reese another blank check guest Lance your character that lovable juvenile delinquent Lance. You remember we made the costume for you and the big plastic

[02:12:43] Lance head you agreed to go to at least 35 cons in 2021. I mean you didn't agree to it. We signed it. You didn't but I mean it was clear the intention. Hey, don't worry about it's all water under that bridge that

[02:12:56] we burned because guess what March 3rd Thursday at 10 p.m. is the season premiere of Dicktown season 2 and also Griffin you're in it Lance returns remember you recorded it. So no big deal. You can make up for lost time by giving us your podcast for four weeks.

[02:13:16] We'll just do a hybrid, you know blank dick blank dick check town or something like that. Okay, or maybe you could just mention it and play this voicemail maybe hey everybody. It's me John Hodgman check out Dicktown season 2 on FX on Thursday nights at 10 p.m.

[02:13:32] Starting March 3rd Hulu the next day and check out season 1 at bit.ly slash D I C K T O W N always be plugging that's Dicktown Thanks everybody come in. Thank you Hodgman for sending that in I have a slightly different

[02:13:48] memory of events, but I will say as sort of a good faith negotiation. I am willing to play the message. I just played on air so not going to give him the podcast for the month. You can have it. No, come on. All right, fine.

[02:14:04] We don't have much else going on not going to do the conventions but I will agree to do what I just did. Sounds so good. It's a great show. It truly is a great show and I say that for its season when

[02:14:15] I was only in one episode and animation you feel a lot more divorced from the process and it was recorded a lot while in advance. It came out during the pandemic and it was one of the few pandemic shows that really like captured me and distracted

[02:14:27] me and amused me and it's really good and I have more to do in this season including is John spoiled riding a motorcycle, but I think it's really good. Yeah, and if you like the Hodgman Reese episodes, then you

[02:14:38] should like these episodes of a cartoon that both of them are on that we're I'm actually you're not in it. I'm not in it, but I do love the show funny way to end our campaign miniseries. Perfect. Look sometimes a giant network owned by a giant company announces

[02:14:57] that they're premiering your show in four weeks with no advance notice and you have to scramble and text a bunch of your friends and ask if you can be fit into their podcast and he's welcome to come on the physique world podcast because absolutely

[02:15:11] he will but he will huge following. Yeah, Hodgman's and getting back on to Hodgeman's like cut these fucking is messed up. We'll figure it out. We're going to back on Richard. You're the best. Yep. Thanks for having me was fun a good movie this time are far

[02:15:24] from yeah, Richard 10 Lawson even the Big Ten girl. Yeah, I know. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, you and Bo Derek. We're just our client. I've skipped all her episodes. I'm sorry Richard Bo Derek Lawson. It is it is wild that we've had Bo Derek on the podcast that

[02:15:39] many times. Exactly always talking about Dudley Moore movie always or always it's weird that we also keep on picking that many directors have worked with Dudley Moore. Anyway, you know who she's married to right Bo Derek. They got married last year. Oh, I know or two years ago.

[02:15:54] Oh Aiden Shaw, right John Corbett. Really? Yeah crazy. Yeah, that's she's only five years older than him. Remember when she was on that show Hawaii with Jacinda Barrett from real world London. Anyone wild? No, why don't I remember just in the wild stuff? David tour is a business.

[02:16:14] We got to announce our next mini-series. Fuck Jesus. I know let's not do it. Let's not do it. Let's just surprise people. This is the thing with final episodes where you forget like a fuck we got like you are what the next mini-series some of

[02:16:26] you have guessed it many. It was originally planned to be earlier and the order was flipped. We were always going to do these two directors at the beginning of the year, right? But Campion was going to be the second one and then his movie got pushed.

[02:16:38] So we and Campion was popping so much that we were like, oh shit. We just reverse them. The director's name is Sam Raimi. Sam Raimi. We're doing a new film coming out the films of Sam Raimi.

[02:16:49] We've been waiting for him to make a new movie and he has Doctor Strange in the multiverse of badness a passion project. We get to talk cover batch again four months from now. Yep. We're going to do Sam Raimi one of the OG's one of the our

[02:17:02] list from day one. Yeah. I don't know. It's going to be good. I don't need to preview Sam Raimi. No, he made the Spider-Man movie. He has not made another movie in the entire time. We've been doing this podcast and we've been waiting for him to come back.

[02:17:13] The Oz the Great and Powerful episode just going to be three hours of silence, right? That's right. Yes, respectful. Well, like sort of just slight sound of wind in the distance. A cough but not from you guys just from outside.

[02:17:24] It might break the witch's record of the least we talk about a movie in an episode on a movie and then an hour and 45 minutes in Bronco Henry starts talking. Absolutely. I should try recently bought Oz on 3d Blu-ray. I am good. I guess pot committed.

[02:17:40] But yes excited about Sam Raimi got good guests and obviously big movies coming up from that next week the blankie awards that my favorite episode. No other powder cleanser. No other a Ben's Choice. That'll be your buffer. We're jumping straight into Raimi because as it is our Doctor

[02:17:58] Strange episodes going to be a couple weeks late from when the movie comes out. So we want to strike while the iron is lukewarm, right? Yeah, but that's what's going on here. And also March Madness has just started. We will have messaged about that in other ways.

[02:18:13] But if you're not already paying attention, you can go to our website where there's a new poll up every day. It's off of Twitter, but Marie will be posting those links. Marie Barty will be posting those links every day on our Twitter

[02:18:26] to our website for the voting which will not be done on Twitter because Twitter is a hellscape. What something's up with Twitter? No good very bad. Don't do it. I just signed up for Twitter blue though. Oh David. Oh no, I David's David's profile.

[02:18:42] She was just coming Octagon. What if you make an NFT of the fucking you watching the Interstellar trailer? Yeah, I'm to be clear not going to do that. But what is to be yeah, right? Yeah, right. I'm sorry. We can't show just to be clear.

[02:18:56] I think NFTs are stupid. Yeah, we hate them. Yeah, they're bad bad dumb. They are they're dumb. Yeah, we don't like them Jesus starting to feel like at the end of the episode the guys were saying they didn't like them too much. Do they secretly love them?

[02:19:12] No, we don't. All right. Any other orders of business? I don't think so March Madness dick town premiered three days ago March Madness started six days ago blankie awards are aiming a week. Remind me in two weeks 14 days and then yeah, I don't know. I don't know good.

[02:19:28] Remember to take a walk and drink water and touch grass touch grass if you will a permanent reminder and I want to remind you all to rate review subscribe. Thank you all for listening. Thank you to Marie Barty for social media AJ McKeon and

[02:19:40] Alex Baron for our editing Joe Bowen's Joe Bowen for our work Pat Reynolds for our artwork JJ Birch Nick Loreano for our research lame Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song go to that nifty new blank check

[02:19:55] website for links to our merch reddit and listen to episodes you can vote on March Madness all that sort of good stuff. Tune next week for the blankie awards with our friend Joe Reed and as always. To Bronco Henry.