The Prestige with Alison Willmore

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts

[00:00:25] The first part is called the Pledge The magician shows you something ordinary, a deck of cards, a bird or a man He shows you this object, perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal But of course it probably isn't

[00:00:44] The second act is called the turn The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary Now you're looking for the secret But you won't find it because of course you're not really looking You don't really want to know You want to be fooled

[00:01:06] But you wouldn't clap you Because making something disappears isn't enough You have to bring it back That's why every magic trick has a third act The hardest part, the part we call the podcast That's the number one worst impression I've ever done

[00:01:23] I've been avoiding doing Michael K in all miniseries because I knew I couldn't do it My favorite thing was that it got demonstrably worse that way It started rocky And then it ended up rocky four, rocky five even Rocky five, I'm sorry to say

[00:01:39] It ended up rocky five Hi everybody, my name is Griffin Newman I'm David Sims, that was very funny That's the first twist of this episode is that I am not in fact Michael K You might be fooled People were like, oh that's a big poll for them

[00:01:52] They got game? My name is Griffin Newman His name is David Sims, this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin We are interested in filmographies Directors who have massive success early on in their careers And they're given a series of blank checks to make whatever

[00:02:07] Crazy films they want and sometimes those checks clear And sometimes... They bounce baby Why is it like... It's a little connery That was naughty I'm really excited to talk about I just looked at Scarlett Johansson's filmography We're gonna talk about that a lot

[00:02:31] This of course is a miniseries on the films of Scarlett Johansson No, this is a miniseries on the films of Christopher Nolan Arguably the biggest filmmaker of the last ten years I'd say it's the biggest filmmaker to emerge in the 21st century Yeah, depending on your metric

[00:02:47] And this miniseries is called The Pod Night Cast Yes it is And this episode is about a movie of his called Duprish Gage Good job Good job That is gonna kill Our listeners are gonna flip out I knew I was right to make you do that

[00:03:07] Look, you talk about sacrifice This is a movie about sacrifice Every week when we're about to record And I'm picking out the quote David always says, don't fucking pick a long one Yeah, I hate it when you do something long

[00:03:20] You always know what the long one I'm thinking about doing is But this time I like to do a long one I was trying to do a fucking Jackman quote And you said dookane, you gotta dookane I said it's a long one and that was the sacrifice

[00:03:30] That was the wife you lost in this episode Alright, we have a guest We do have a guest She's laughed, so I'm considering that An intro I like the guest to talk before we introduce them It's a pet peeve of mine I laughed off Mike, how about that

[00:03:46] She's a critic and a podcast host in her own right Of film spotting, SVU streaming video unit Ladies and gentlemen Allison Walmors here with us today Hello, hello, such a pleasure to be here Thank you so much for being here How you doing?

[00:04:02] It was funny to me that you asked me to do Christopher Nolan Because I feel like anyone has been as largely indifferent to Christopher Nolan It is me I do like this one It's definitely my favorite Christopher Nolan movie

[00:04:15] We've done some of that, we had Amy Nicholson on the show And she gave him a mentor which is kind of the one The one she likes Although she said she liked The Dark Knight as well But I think she's more admired maybe than likes Sure

[00:04:28] I just feel like also it's good to have people on who are aware of Mr. Nolan's flaws Limits as a filmmaker, as a storyteller David you and I are both fans of Christopher Nolan I mean I'm aware of his limits too Right, same here but I think

[00:04:43] My trepidation doing this miniseries on him is There already is such like a fervent culture Of just like worship around him And then there's also this culture of just like Fuck that guy That's what happens when there's little too much worship

[00:04:57] But we're not really aiming to do either But as with a lot of our miniseries Unlike a lot of our miniseries where there's some sort of sense Of re-evaluation that needs to be done We feel like

[00:05:08] Or a sense of mystery of trying to figure out what happened to there Their creative mojo With him it's kinda just like he's there and you pick your side And either you love him or you hate him

[00:05:19] Yeah so I think it's interesting to have people on who are not totally enamored with his stuff You know we're fanboys with reservations Sure But this is my favorite movie of his It's my second favorite movie Wait what's your favorite? You know what it is Allison

[00:05:38] I told you interstellar Spoiler I feel like I'm It's a difficult thing to get over with you I am, I am what I am I've got a lot of them Got a lot of flaws That's a big one for sure

[00:05:53] I do feel like I'm winning people over on interstellar Or I'm not but like the movie is sort of Like I've seen some shifts in its appreciation Among people Have you? I've sensed that as well I thought you were just gonna say

[00:06:07] I feel like I'm winning people over As a father of two I have a lot of flaws I'm trying to win people over I feel like slowly but surely I'm making people like me Prestige, 2006 So this was the year of dueling magician films Of Magician sacrifice movies

[00:06:24] Not just movies about magicians Magicians that are at war with other magicians What a great year The other one is the illusionist But there was also Scoop Man, Joe Hansen was running the table Was she? Is it interesting kind of like side career for her?

[00:06:41] And that was Jackman too Yeah I know But Scoop it's like Woody Allen's a musician But Jackman is just like a fancy lord right I've never seen it Wait, yes, Woody Allen's a magician Scarjo's trying to figure out something about Hugh Jackman And then Woody Allen's a magician

[00:06:57] Someone's a ghost in that movie Isn't it also someone's a ghost in that movie? His movies are weird She's like a reporter She's a plucky reporter I think Jackman's a ghost in that movie Because I remember when Matchpoint was like this big

[00:07:10] Like kind of return to form for him right The serious movie, real drama Right and people were really into Joe Hansen's performance No I'm sorry Ian McShane is a ghost in that movie Who is guiding Scarlett Johansson To figure out if Hugh Jackman murdered him

[00:07:25] Because he thinks he did Oh, okay That's less exciting than Hugh Jackman being a guy And then how does the magician thing figure out? Woody Allen's just in it Just being an asshole I'm just playing the great Splendini Look, I can't explain Woody Allen's later movies to you

[00:07:43] Is like, you know, it's weird What I remember You've seen a rational man? Yes That movie's fucking crazy No, it's awful When I watched that movie I was like Why did no one tell me about this? Like what happens in this movie? That movie's interesting It's definitely interesting

[00:07:57] It's an interesting movie But it's like a huge, insane shrug of a movie How about that? It's a weird shrug of a movie about Like the thrill of being guilty But it has that same kind of jazzy track playing Over and over and over again

[00:08:12] And the total shrug narration Where it's like, you know, in the end I pushed him down an elevator And it was an interesting summer for me Like, you know, credits Like that's the spoiler alert for the other rational man It's like Joaquin Phoenix's character

[00:08:24] Everyone just is like, he's so brilliant So amazing And he does like nothing to actually demonstrate this He teaches like a philosophy 101 course Yeah Weird movie The thing I would say, I remember vividly Is like hot off a match point

[00:08:38] F1's like, oh, Scarja's back in a Woody Allen movie It's new muse What's the new project? And they were like, it's a ghost story And people were like, oh, Scarja's back Because match point was so like, you know Kind of like straight faced

[00:08:50] Such a different term from, oh, it's Scarja In a ghost story And then the trailer came out and they were like What the fuck is this? Yeah, it's a Woody Allen's like doing 52 card pickup Or whatever That was this year But also this year was The Illusionist

[00:09:02] Allison, where were you in 2006? Did you see the Prestigean theaters? I saw the Prestigean theaters I think I also saw The Illusionists in theaters I saw both of them theaters Yeah And I like them both In general, I like magic Yeah, magic's good Do you like vintage magic?

[00:09:18] I like all magic I think in general I want, you know, there's that upcoming I think it's a CBS show or something About a magician who gets recruited by the FBI To help them solve crimes And honestly, like I've never been more excited

[00:09:29] About a TV show in my life How am I not the lead on this show? I've never heard of the show I'm very excited How am I not the assistant to the guy on the show? Let's be realistic Alright, let me look this show up

[00:09:40] I think it's called Deception Oh my god It looks amazing I'm gonna watch that so much I'm like, never wanted It's like my perfect TV show I really want to be a magician when I was a child I was like very, very obsessed with magic

[00:09:53] Until maybe at the age of like 7 or 8 It's NBC just to be clear It's on NBC. Who plays the magician? I'll have that information for you in just one minute It's um...Gee Jack Cutmore Scott Jack Cutmore Scott So good

[00:10:09] He was in Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life You played Cooper Barrett himself I've never heard...what was that? That was a TV show That was a Fox show I had this one for that Congrats Yeah, it's uh...you got uh...

[00:10:22] Vinnie Jones is in it Oh, okay Uh, he plays the...what's the word? Ongenor He plays the Ongenor Oh, we should actually... Introduce Ongenor Ben Yeah Hey, hello A.K. producer Ben A.K. producer Ben A.K. the Ben Deucer A.K. the poet laureate

[00:10:39] A.K. our finest film critic A.K. the haze Mr. Positive Mr. Hosner A.K. the tiebreaker A.K. birthday Benny A.K. dirt bike Benny A.K. soaking white Benny A.K the meat lover A.K. the fart detective Right Uh, he is not Professor Crispy No

[00:10:53] He is the fuck master Sure I'm your trick man He's graduated to certain tolls over the course of different miniseries such as Kylo Ben producer Ben Kenobi Ben Night Shyamalan Ben Seyit Say Ben Anything A. Lee Ben's with a dollar sign and more hot

[00:11:07] I heard a good Nolan suggestion now I forgot it, fuck Have you heard some? I've heard a few I mean some Ovian ones but like Ben Sepshin Look, Ongenor Ben is the one I want to introduce for this episode That's a good one

[00:11:19] There's one I want to save for when we get to that movie because I think it's really good but the other ones that have sort of been thrown out are Hazal Ghul Yeah, I'm not into that Mabento Oh boy Yeah, yeah, yeah Go ahead Bensamnia In hazmi

[00:11:37] I also heard Oh yeah Well no, and thank you for introducing me Harvey Bent Oh, of course There's like some other guy in the lobby Is he just gonna he's just gonna hang He's my associate Don't worry Oh, I get it I pay him out of my cut

[00:11:51] It's fine We're sharing food It's fine The prestige I was in college I don't know I was out of college I think it was my last year at college I was in high school I'm a baby Yeah, you're a kid I remember seeing this

[00:12:04] and I saw the twist coming the twist Well that's quote unquote Yes And I walked out and I was like oh, I don't know I feel like that didn't make any sense Like which twist The twin Yeah, the twin Yeah, the twin Spoilers Yeah, come on

[00:12:21] No, it's over Spoilers This movie's a sequel to twins Yeah Yeah, the twin twist And I guess look, I was I was a young fool I walked out and I was like wait, that was the point I got that I don't get it The movie I was like

[00:12:38] it was fine I don't know It looked okay I liked the illusionist too And then I I feel like I figured it out like a couple of years later See, I had the exact opposite experience I saw I was in high school I was in the school play

[00:12:51] What was the school play? It was Anything Goes It was a production of Anything Goes I've only been in one musical in my life but I've been in anything goes twice Okay So in middle school I was Moonface Martin Best role

[00:13:02] Kind of a big deal in middle school Like I was at a smaller school and I was kind of like running the table the theater department High school I little you know blooms off the rose a little bit So I played a Lychee J. Whitney That's fine

[00:13:15] Moonface Martin is the best role Definitely I really want to play Lord Evelyn Oakley And this has been Griffin's musical corner I can't sing I can do any song from anything goes though just I know that I know that musical Great musical Can we hear one?

[00:13:29] Yeah, Anything Goes Great, wonderful I feel like I was there on the sailboat Whatever it is cruise ship Ocean liner It's been a while It's been a while It's been a while I got out of school early on Friday I had rehearsal for the play at four o'clock

[00:13:48] So it was one of those things where I had to stay in Brooklyn I asked him a simple question and I don't know why I'm always surprised It was a thing where I had a couple hours to kill I didn't have time to go back home

[00:13:57] So I went to the Court Street Theater close by Sure And I saw prestige by myself and I felt like it had gotten middling reviews Yeah, I feel like it got a fairly underwhelming way of shrug Well people like the Illusionist more

[00:14:10] I feel like at the time people were like that one is the good And it had come out earlier It had stole the thunder And it had more of a defined sort of vintagey look Like it's very brown and sepia tone

[00:14:21] Patina, maybe patina is the word you're looking for Right, you know what? Yeah Alright, carry on Patina And it had Gia Madi and everyone was just We were high on Gia Madi And had Aaron Johnson playing a young Edward Norton We were not high on Aaron Johnson

[00:14:35] No, never shall we be Yeah Well, it was also like there was a weird arc where like Batman Begins was very well liked Sure He announced that I'm doing a magician movie Like right away Right Like it was like right as Batman Begins had come out Right

[00:14:52] I'm doing a magician movie with Wolverine and Batman And everyone was like cool And there was this cool poster You remember that poster with the Here I'm gonna find it Yeah, it's like the spirals Yeah, with the spirals And they also did those posters like individual character posters

[00:15:05] with those dots Where if you look it up close the dots all look the same but if you move away Do you know what I'm talking about? Not like a magic eye But it's like It's equally sized dots and they're slightly different shades of black Okay, yeah, yeah

[00:15:17] That's a great poster That's a great poster Yeah Oh yeah I hear they are Here are the dots Oh weird, weird But if you look at it up close the dots Yeah, Google it Listeners You'll see what I'm talking about Because it says Are you watching closely? Yeah

[00:15:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah That's what he says over and over again There was this weird thing almost like the rivalry between the magicians in this movie between the illusionists and prestige where like the prestige is announced Ooh, Nolan's follow up before he makes his Batman sequel This sounds cool

[00:15:47] Then the illusionist premieres at Sundance And it was like a weird thing at the time where it was when Bob Yari was making movies and suddenly had these deep pockets that he was like bankrolling things Right And then the movie had like an $18 million budget

[00:16:01] I remember people being like what's this fucking $18 million movie doing at Sundance Because at that time that was like not a thing Now you have like fucking $20 million at Sundance all the time And then like no one is really excited about it It didn't do that well

[00:16:15] at Sundance and then it came out like the end of August No, it came out earlier than that I think here I can look it up I think it came out in the summer I'm looking it up Give me a second Jesus But it did surprise me

[00:16:27] No, you're right End of August August 18 And it was based on let's not forget a hot short story Yeah Yeah Written by Jonathan Nolan And it was made by Neil Berger who has just endured as a great artist Divergent Insurgent I think he only did one

[00:16:44] He did the first one Whatever the first one You're right He was just a producer on Insurgent I take it back But it like opened like in 50 screens and then just kept on platforming and ended up doing really well So then by the time procedure to come out

[00:16:56] it was sort of like oh this is the sloppy seconds movie Even though Illusionist didn't have the same sort of hype leading up to it I think people were like I saw my one magician movie It was like It was seen as like a surprise hit

[00:17:07] Yeah, it was like a sleeper hit Exactly It actually built an audience Yeah Even though it made less money than the prestige like everyone was like Huh, look at that They ended up pretty similar totals They have 39 to 53 Oh really? That's similar I remember the prestige doing less

[00:17:24] You're wrong Okay I don't know what to tell you Just guys Do you know what Neil Bergersness movie is? I just found out I'm really horrified I know what it is I can't tell you It's an adaptation of something Right It is of a French movie

[00:17:38] Oh oh oh It's untouchables Yeah Remember that French movie? Kevin Hart and Brian Cranston No Oh You hear that? Kevin Hart and Brian Cranston does not sound good to me Yeah Ah Jesus I'm gonna have to see that movie Alright The Illusionist comes out right

[00:17:56] So you see the prestige I get out of school I have like three hours to kill I go to see it I'm like I guess this is gonna be a bomb We went to different stores I'm still telling this story

[00:18:05] I thought it would be funny if they said it It was funny Five comedy points I had some time to kill I was like Ah this is gonna be middling I'll go see this middling movie by a director I really like And I was like

[00:18:16] in the theater by myself and I was like This movie's great Cause like an hour in I was like Ah the twin twist I'm ahead of this movie I'm smarter than that And then I realized the fucking prestige she's doing I was like Ah misdirect

[00:18:29] And I walked out and I went to anything It's the greatest film I've ever seen I was happy I'm telling everyone and no one else saw it I was just like I'm obsessed with this movie all fall And I just would yell about it to everyone

[00:18:39] and no one saw it Right It was maybe my favorite movie that year Sure, it's one of my favorite movies that I've seen a year for sure 2006 2006 The year of I don't know Yeah That's the crash best picture year right Broke back No it's No, that's 2005

[00:18:58] It's the departed year Right So funny That one best picture Yeah Isn't that weird It's really weird That was also a year where they were like anything could win Like it was like The five nominees all kind of were perceived as having an equal shot of winning

[00:19:13] Yeah, I'm trying to see It's like Little Miss Sunshine won the PGA And like you look at the top I forgot about that movie doing so well Little Miss Sunshine You're right And then Scorsese won the DGA but everyone thought he was going to win Best Director

[00:19:24] and something else will win Best Picture Let me find out what the other front runners were You've got Dream Girls but that had flopped That had not even gotten Right, that was the thing If you've not done what I was supposed to

[00:19:36] At the end of the year everyone thought it was going to win and then it didn't even get No later I think some people thought Babel was going to win because it had or Babel I don't know how I feel like People also thought the Queen could win

[00:19:46] Queen's good movie Yeah Yeah And like you look at the top five that year it's Dead Man's Chest Da Vinci Code Happy Feet Ice Age The Meltdown Like it's a rough Top of the Box office Night at the Museum Casino Royale Which is a good movie Cars X-Men 3

[00:20:04] It's Happy Feet That's a rough year Oh really? Yeah A rough year for big movies And you know people complain Like they complain about right now But like look at this Right Like take a gander That was a bad year Yeah Ugh Boy anyway 2006 So yeah

[00:20:21] Prestige it comes out in October Ah I knocked my headphones off And yeah Kind of vanished into the trace Was kind of shrugged off Yeah I feel like the critics were like We get it's the Nolan thing Like they didn't give it any specific Messages in the Time

[00:20:34] Has a twist Christian Bale's doing a voice And I feel like a lot of people Had that sort of dismissal Like yeah I got it I get it whatever You know And now I mean Allison would you agree with me I feel like this is like

[00:20:45] The film critic pick For Christopher Nolan Oh I don't know if it is Or not No maybe not I don't think there is a consensus I feel like maybe there's like A little like a group of like Online critics who are like Yes well there is

[00:20:57] But I feel like it's still It's still right The film twitter's favorite But it's also still like Kind of a contrarian pick Yeah a little bit Yeah where everyone's like You know what's good Is the one movie he made That wasn't a huge hit Don't add me

[00:21:10] Yeah right Um I mean save for Memento and following Which obviously barely got a release This is his lowest grossing movie I mean Insomnia did more than this Insomnia I think did better than this And obviously all the other ones Are like Huge But it was made for

[00:21:26] A pretty good 40 million dollars Considering how nice it looks Yeah it's pretty nice Co-production between Warner Brothers And Disney Yeah I forgot that That this is his only Non like you know It's like Disney was The main Thunder I think Disney had the rights To the book maybe

[00:21:43] Maybe Um cause he does that again With Interstellar Where Paramount owned That screenplay Right And he is such a Warner Brothers boy That was a Paramovie Right Yeah that's right And one In that case Paramount had it Domestically Warner Brothers Had it overseas With prestige

[00:22:00] Disney had it domestically Warner Brothers had it overseas The point is That every time another studio Has material he wants He goes like yeah But you gotta bring my boy Warner Brothers over with you You know You gotta bring my boy The bros My boys

[00:22:14] You gotta bring the bros He brings the bros Jack and People say one thing about Christopher Nolan He brings the bros Uh huh You enjoying this so far How we doing this Warner Brothers Jack and Harry, Albert and Sam The Warner Brothers Those were the Warner Brothers

[00:22:29] He brings all four of them There were four of them? Yeah there were four I was like there were two People had a lot of kids back then I know Uh you know so yeah Here's the prestige So let's talk about it Okay

[00:22:39] Do we need to do any other setup I mean he I feel like we already knew Batman 2 was coming Yeah And so there was just so much Right in the middle of Yeah His super- Yeah and he makes this Quickly cause this comes out

[00:22:50] A year after Batman began So it was kind of like He's gonna do a palette cleanser He's making himself one of those filmmakers Yeah One for me That's what it felt like And then his one for me Started like Those started being big as well Yeah

[00:23:02] Even this $40 million Is a pretty big one for me Sure But the bigger thing is that His ones for me Started being as successful Financially Right As his like ones for them This is the last time There has to be that kind of Distinction I think between

[00:23:15] Like oh I'm going back and forth Between like Blockbusters And personal projects Alright now actually Let me give you the Genesis of this Sam Mendez wanted to make this movie Back when the book came out Okay In like 2000 Okay But then he did Wasn't interested in more

[00:23:31] But his producer brought it over To Nolan And Nolan got Was got into this book When he was promoting Memento So he'd had it like For a while Oh wow And he took it to Jonathan, his brother And he was like We should do this

[00:23:45] And so they start writing this script So they had this script ready Before he makes Batman Begins Before he gets on the WB train Before he starts rolling with the bridge Right So once He's doing this He already starts spooling up In the prestige

[00:23:59] While he's making Batman Begins That's why it happened so fast Like you know they had a draft Yeah And like he starts on like You know Nathan Crowley starts Building sets or You know at least like Pre-vis And he had two of his big actors

[00:24:11] Now he's like I like Bail, I like Cain Well according to Look you know It's all I'm Dubian Wikipedia and Bullshit But like Bail asked to be in the movie He didn't even like think about it Interesting But Bail saw the screenplay

[00:24:24] And was like I think I could be this guy And I think the same goes for Jackman like it was like Nolan didn't think of these people They came to him Interesting I don't know Both these guys are really Really well cast in this movie Yeah

[00:24:36] It's like it's a really good Hugh Jackman role Yeah Is it the best Hugh Jackman Maybe the flow I mean he is the Wolverine Yeah but I think outside of that I think this is the best Individual performance It is such a perfect use of him

[00:24:47] Down to the drunk double Yes I mean like So good And another thing I feel like this is the best American accent he's ever done I feel like sometimes He goes a little too overboard There's that thing that happens With like British or Australian actors

[00:25:03] Where they like over annuncate Yeah In order to sound more American They play real Yeah yeah yeah And this it works because He's kind of theatrical He's got that like mid-Atlantic Yeah They also just you know They do that thing where their voice Is kind of more resonant

[00:25:16] You know like that's an American accent David's doing a great showman face I'm a showman And he can show me hands It's Katelyn Leopold He's British I can't remember Is he British and Katelyn Leopold That's another movie Yeah he's a lord Yeah But yeah

[00:25:30] Cause like Jackman was still struggling Like apart from X-Men You know he'd made His big plays have been like Swordfish and Van Helsing Those were his only two Right Like non X-Men blockbusters And then Katelyn Leopold Was like him trying to branch out And someone like you

[00:25:45] Was doing rom-coms That was after the first X-Men Yes I mean yeah None of the other stuff was really clicking That's a good point And then this year This was like Jackman year Cause he's two voices in both happy feet And flushed away Never forget Boy

[00:26:01] And he's in The Prestige, The Fountain, Scoop And X-Men 3 Wow That is a lot of Jackman That's a lot of Jackman I love The Fountain Can I just say It's a great movie I've We'll do it We gotta do it I mean The Fountain is

[00:26:18] Talk about a blank check Yes I've only seen The Fountain once And my story of seeing The Fountain In theaters is the worst movie Going experience I've ever had So I can't really judge Whether or not I like The Fountain I remember my friend

[00:26:28] In college coming to me I didn't like The Fountain And I was like And we were talking about it And I referenced the fact that There are parts That are in the future And he was like I didn't pick up on that

[00:26:39] He was like give me the part Where he's in the bubble And I'm like yeah I was like I thought he was in a bath I didn't know what was happening He was in the bath I'm gonna tell my fountain story Really quickly I started The Angelica

[00:26:50] First they started playing The wrong movie Right And after five minutes The Angelica is the worst theater In America as a PS They turned it off The screen was delayed Well they got the right reel Into the theater They started it up About 45 minutes in The projector burned

[00:27:04] Through the film Like in Gremlins 2 Like it's like It's part of the design Of the movie Hey man The fountain too hot Yeah Lights go back up Like in theater radio starts playing We all sit there for like 10-15 minutes Then the movie starts up again

[00:27:17] But with that movie The way they're jumping around in time We were like We don't know if we've missed a piece of it Or if this is right after the burn And then the burn happened Again 20 minutes later Wow We're gonna ruin that camera

[00:27:28] They just savaged this print Seriously I think it was opening day God what a disaster I saw it on Friday But they wouldn't refund us Oh That's a nice touch Yeah So I was like That's a nice touch Yeah So I have no idea whether or not

[00:27:43] I like the fountain a lot A lot of people do not like the fountain No Yeah That is a movie That's my kind of Darren Ahrinoff's Yeah I like it like that It goes very big What is it? A Bandskind's Reach Yes It exceeds his grasp Yeah

[00:27:58] There you go Well the thing with Jackman was I mean like Wolverine Okay now he's got a franchise He's got this great kind of character Handsome He's won a Tony Right He doesn't fit into leading man perfectly He's a little hammy He's definitely hammy He's a little theatrical

[00:28:14] Yeah He doesn't He's a showman He's a showman It's weird that he walks around with his hands like this all the time Wolverine's the only character where he's figured out how to hold the ham And other than Wolverine He needs performances that let him bathe in the river

[00:28:28] In the river of ham Yes Like fucking Les Mis Yeah You know what I'm saying Wolverine is pretty stripped down He's like stripping my ham And then otherwise He's gonna roll if they don't want him to be hammy It's a problem

[00:28:39] Right because he just drifts that way naturally And he's great at it Yeah So what I remember is you know X-Men Okay he's got that on lockdown You guys are saying you're very excited for the greatest showman Yes After that trailer Who could not be like

[00:28:51] The finest film ever made Yeah He's got X-Men on lockdown Van Helsing was like primed to be this big fucking franchise Huge It's gonna be a huge, huge thing Oh that moving Van Helsing They had vested so much money in it that they paid rent

[00:29:08] To keep the full town of Transylvania set Constructed on sound stages Because they were going to do an NBC primetime series called Transylvania That was the citizens of the town without Van Helsing This is like the pre-cinematic universe Cinematic universe Yeah

[00:29:24] Well this work and they just don't know how to do it yet They were gonna do Transylvania the TV show They were gonna have seasons in between Van Helsing movies To keep the audiences like Interest stoked Like three months after Van Helsing came out they were like

[00:29:35] Yeah we just wasted a bunch of money on rent But then the other thing was he was heavily rumored for James Bond There were a lot of rumors that he was gonna get James Bond before Daniel Craig Yeah They made the right choice

[00:29:49] And Christina Rao comes out the same year as this So this is the year when he's like Okay I'm not getting Bond Van Helsing's dead in the water I got my one franchise Let me find what else I can do as a leading man

[00:29:59] Which is why he did 17 movies He did a lot of movies Yeah And you know he does Australia after this Yeah He's working with some big directors And then he hosts the Oscars He hosts the Oscars, does a good job? Yeah He also hosts the Tonys

[00:30:11] A couple times Which he also does a good job He's a good host He's a good host He's charming Charming dude Have you ever been over to his place for dinner? No I've never been over to his place for dinner I'm so charming God I saw him mostly

[00:30:27] I saw him in Oklahoma I'll say Ham and Ham A lot of baked hams He puts the ham down and then show me hands He's great in someone like you Which is an awful movie I've never seen it either I watched it on the plane like twice

[00:30:43] When it was on the plane In the same plane right? On planes Yes Yeah you're like You did ended and you're like That was so good No We got diverted from Boston to Montreal Because of a storm And then we just sat on the taxi

[00:30:55] And they were like We can't let you off Because we're in another country So they were like But hey The movies Please So I watched like two movies And then I was like Fuck I guess I gotta watch someone like you again A amount of movies

[00:31:07] Like this was Not a Back when they had like Fifth you know Yeah They had 15 movies Great story for me Yeah four story points Oh story points It's very hot today guys We're recording on the weekend There's no air conditioning Yeah Hey correct

[00:31:26] Hey can you not be a temperature queen For one minute David Wow Wow But then you look at his filmography after that Then it's like X-Men Wolverine in 09 Right No movies until 2011 Real Steel Really? Yeah He disappears from our screens for two years

[00:31:44] I mean he was in X-Men First Class for a second Oh yeah He says go fuck yourself What was he doing then I don't know Like what was he up to He must have done some shows He must have treaded the boards Yeah he must have actually

[00:31:55] He didn't have like some hobbies He must have been treading the boards Like Eric Nanna and the race cars or anything He doesn't have some side things that he does Is that what Eric Nanna does? I wonder what he's doing He made a whole movie

[00:32:04] He made a whole movie about his race car That no one ever watched right No Yeah he was in A Steady Rain with Daniel Craig Right On the Broadway stage How was it? It was okay It had some good mustaches in that Right I remember that

[00:32:17] That was like the one where Yeah And then that was the one where One time someone's cell phone went off And then they both just yelled at the person It was like a YouTube video of them Just like in character yelling The fuck is the hell with you

[00:32:28] They're Chicago cops or whatever They say it in character for yelling out That's great So the prestige You want to get it started on the prestige? Yeah well the other guy I want to talk about Let's talk about the two other career arcs In this movie

[00:32:43] Scarlett Johansson is a really weird place You want to talk about her right now? Yeah I think we should Yeah no let's do it Because you know Here's Scar Joe I'm going to give you Scar Joe Right I mean obviously she's kid

[00:32:54] Kid work but ghost world is like She's in the ghost world She's in ghost world She's great in that And then she follows it up with Fucking Lost in Translation Excuse me She follows it up with eight legged freaks Oh okay Excuse me I'm excuse

[00:33:06] I saw it in theaters I'm excuse Lost in translation and And Guape Guape I call it Go with the Perleman Just to save some time And so everyone's like Comes up so often Right exactly Guape You know Guape And then she's got a Hugh Jackman Hugh Jackman-esque 2006 and 2004

[00:33:26] The perfect score A love song for Bobby Long Oh no Bad A good woman I don't even remember what that is I think it was with Helen Hunt Yeah it's like a period play That movie whatever And in good company Aka synergy I remember that

[00:33:43] That's a weird movie that doesn't I kind of like it It's charming It's a cute little movie How do you get soundtrack? Is it a white Did one of the whites It's a white It's a Paul whites There you go And then she's also a voice in

[00:33:56] SpongeBob SquarePants She's very good in that She is I agree actually And then in 05 She's got match point Which everyone is hyping Is like a good movie Which it's not It's a terrible movie And the island Which is also bad And a flop Is it a flop? Yeah

[00:34:12] Huge flop Because that was when It's Bay's only flop Right where Bay left The Bruckheimer Coupe And he made this movie It's a Disney movie It's Dreamworks Because Spielberg's Dreamworks Spielberg was like Come to me boy Come to me boy Come to me boy And then so in 06

[00:34:28] So like at this point I feel like The island bombing People are like Oh she's not a star Right She's definitely not Like a movie star And B She hasn't picked a good project Really since Lost in Translation And the only thing

[00:34:40] Maybe we bet on the wrong horse But people did kind of Think match point Was good At that time And I feel like She was close She was close to getting Like an Oscar nom She got like A Golden Globe nom But people were into that performance

[00:34:52] At that time Yeah And she got a Golden Globe nom For a love song for Bobby Long Don't forget Well let's not talk about that I would rather for that Someone just bought that You know they just like A suitcase of cash and then It's just crazy

[00:35:03] A love song for Bobby Long That was the one year That was the one year Where they added a new category That was best performance By a leading actress In a love song For Bobby Long Best Bobby Long love song And she didn't win That's the weird thing

[00:35:14] And then so this year She has Scoop And then she has the Black Dahlia Yeah Which is also a huge bomb Yeah Not a terrible movie A flawed movie Mm-hmm And then the prestige And she doesn't really get a hit The next year is the nanny diaries Yeah

[00:35:31] And then 08 It's other Bling girl in this spirit And you're like Uh oh But then she's in Vicky Christina Barcelona Which is a sizable Like sort of Well received That's my favorite Woody of that decade Sure And then he's just not that into you It's rough It's rough

[00:35:46] And then Iron Man 2 Like it really was And then we bought a zoo Yeah It really was the Avengers That turned her around Cause she's not great And then she's suddenly in her I mean that character is poorly written But it's like an Avengers Sub-Codd

[00:35:58] That character's figured out Right But it was Avengers Turned it around Well there was just like A long period where I think no one knew What to do with her She ended up I mean in this movie She's in this kind of Like weird third tier role

[00:36:10] Where she's But she's like Third build and they Promoted her a lot Yeah She was like the it girl But it's not a very good character Like there are three Female characters in this Like one dies right away Right One dies eventually Yes

[00:36:26] And I think that's the best Of the three roles Yeah for sure But like they're all I mean they're all roles that have Like they are literally just built around What happens to these two main characters I mean that's a point of them Is that like

[00:36:37] They're buffeted around By these guys Who can't turn away from each other Right So none of them Are that rich as roles No and it's almost distracting To have Scarlett Johansson In one of those roles Right Because the roles are kind of Insubstantial But she's sort of like

[00:36:50] You know this ingenue Who's supposed to be like Oh tempting both men Or whatever But the movie is not interested in that Like Nolan is not Clearly not very interested in that Well I'd also argue But there's like a way You could sell I don't know

[00:37:02] My whole take on Scarlett Johansson was that Like you know She was really good In ghost world And lost in translation Playing these weird Kind of outsider girls Who were disaffected Right But were very beautiful But the movies didn't Really sexualize her She's so

[00:37:16] I just rewatched ghost world She is She's amazing She's really phenomenal in that But then everyone was like Oh but she's beautiful Right Like she's Not just that though She's like sensual That's her thing Right Is that she's like this sex bomb Right she's got a body

[00:37:30] She's sort of like Marilyn Monroe Or whatever She's got husky voice So then they tried to ingenue her And she never wears that well No she never does Never No Anytime she's asked me sexual in a movie She's not comfortable Yeah Unless it's like

[00:37:42] Under the skin or something That like That's an enus Right But that's the whole point is It's like an alien version of that Yeah She likes playing weird Like Bronx broads Yes Like Don John Or like Hale Caesar Right She gets to kick out of that Yeah

[00:37:59] You know but I think like that was the kind Of the thing that did her in For a long time there Was I think she maybe She was very young I mean because she was like What 2021 and lost the translation Right She's only 32 now Yeah She's

[00:38:12] Two years older than me Yeah So she was like 21 in this She was like 19 And lost the translation Right that's crazy And she's like actually 17 In ghost world Yeah Yeah So I think she just got caught Up in this whirlwind And everyone was like

[00:38:25] This is what you are And she was like Okay And for nine years Everyone kept on misusing her Yeah This is unfortunate Yeah ScarJo Well She had a rough year This year Yeah She'll rebound though I mean Well next year she's got The Les Anderson movie Right

[00:38:43] I just remember like Walking out of this movie And being like I think she's done Yeah I think that thing's over Sure But she was young That's the thing She was young She still had a lot of time That's what's crazy Yeah So she's terrible in this movie

[00:38:57] She's really bad She's quite bad She's like easily the weakest Part of this movie No question The rest of this cast is great Everyone else is good Yes Piper Is it Parabo or Parabo I think it's Parabo Parabo Yeah She's even

[00:39:11] She seemed like she should have been famous And then she never quite like broke through She is gorgeous She hit really hard at first Like she had that summer where it was like She was the lead of like three movies And then all them didn't do that well

[00:39:22] Well I just can remember Coyote ugly Coyote ugly But also she's Rocking and bullwink She's the lead of Rocking and Bullwink Yeah movie is A Catastrophe Catastrophe And then I think Maybe those were the two But they came out within like a month of each other Right

[00:39:36] And then she made that like Sort of like cheese cakey Lesbians At boarding school drama with Misha Barton Right And Jessica Perret Right Which is called Lost and Delirious Which is like the most anonymous movie Like Lost and Delirious Which is I think became like

[00:39:52] You know because there's not a lot of like Lesbian coming of age dramas So it just sort of became slightly canonical anyway It also had people who went on to become more famous And so it has that surreal thing When you look back and you're like

[00:40:04] Oh my god Weird they're all in this movie And then there's that movie where she plays like A French girl with a beret It's called like Slapper, She's French Which was on the shelf for like five years That was one of those weird movies

[00:40:16] That kept on being retitled and edited I can't believe we're doing Piper Paribot And then Cheaper by the Dozen You know It was a hit I don't know what to say She just goes nowhere She ended up on one of those USA shows That ran for five seasons

[00:40:28] Yeah I actually watched a few of them That was the one with Peter Gallagher right Yes I don't remember I think so They're all the same I saw her on Broadway like five years ago She was amazing Yeah she's good

[00:40:42] I think she was in Reasons to be Pretty Sure, Neela Bue Yeah Agree Agree But my mom and I saw that Because that was like Thomas Sadowski's coming out moment And he had gotten these crazy good reviews I saw that with Marin Ireland I think

[00:40:59] Yes the two of them were in it Yeah Marin Ireland plays Sadowski's girlfriend Right She's like her both place's best friend's girlfriend She was like phenomenal I remember being like Why didn't she have a career? I don't know I don't know She's really charismatic She's quite charismatic

[00:41:14] Which is something that I think that Sometimes when you get treated as a sex object in movies Movies don't ask you to do much And I think she is very like alive on screen She's just like someone you want to watch

[00:41:26] She's very vivid and she does have this kind of old movie star face She's got this very expressive She does have nice face Kind of very unique Big eyes Yeah I mean she makes that character who is literally on screen to die She makes her memorable

[00:41:41] The idea that the rest of the movie kind of hinges on her In a lot of ways Actually makes it work It actually works You're totally right Well those were the three career acts I wanted to talk about

[00:41:50] No the other thing with this movie is that this is the moment where She's also a looper Oh right She plays another looper Yeah but like barely in looper right? Yes I think so because I barely remember her She plays the stripper

[00:42:02] I need to watch that one again She plays the stripper Oh great The thing I remember coming out of this was like Oh Bale's now figured out what his movie star persona is Which is guys who are just fucking obsessed with thought Agro cockney Right Weirdly muscular

[00:42:22] Obsessive guys You would never want to sleep with Like he's just like I won't be a romantic lead like ever Well it's like his thing was Okay he's gonna hand him Imagine him in a rom-com Impossible He's also said he'll never make a rom-com He knows him so

[00:42:36] But I remember coming out of this movie being like Okay here's the place that Christian Bale's gonna occupy In like big budget cinema is a more intellectual less sexual Tom Cruise Way less sexual That's what it is You know

[00:42:50] But it's like you can actually also like do accents Like do like has like craft But that same kind of thing where you want to see the character Obsessively pursuing something In like a smaller scale And then it felt like that's what Hollywood tried to make him

[00:43:03] In like public enemies and Terminator They were like can we apply that to other blockbusters Phenomenal in public enemies Agreed That is my favorite Christian Bale performance Really? Yes I love him in that movie Interesting choice He would be an Oscar nominee for me for that one

[00:43:16] My two favorite performances of his are The New World Which is the biggest outlier in his career Because it's the one movie in which he's just charming He's quite good in that Yeah yeah And this I think is like the best of the obsessive Bale Sure

[00:43:30] But then what ends up happening is Very Winston accent Yeah Those movies don't totally work for one reason or another And then his thing ends up being like He's gotten three Oscar nomes and one win All from working with comedy directors Playing comedic parts

[00:43:43] It's funny but like but playing them like It's very odd Full hilt Where he's like I'm putting on weight I'm gonna like fuck with my eye But there are three comedic performances Yeah Which is odd for him Cause it was like this guy's got no sense of humor

[00:43:58] He doesn't play them like comedy No he doesn't That's why they work right He plays them like totally straightforward But all three of those characters are funny I mean they play as funny when watching the movie Ah yeah We're disturbing The fighter not so much Yeah

[00:44:13] Just because he is That character is really funny It's a very sad character It's entertaining It's a sad character I mean American Hustles I guess it's he's yeah he's funny I hate that movie I know you do He's not in that movie Make sure about these future ovens

[00:44:26] Science ovens You did we did this two years ago This very podcast You fucked it up that time too Yeah you fucked it up that time too Good callback then Great callback Thank you And then the big short I think he's so good in that

[00:44:37] I really not my favorite movie But I like that movie I don't like that movie I think he's very good in that Yeah He's the bit I like Other, not Steve Carell Yeah Annoying in that movie Yeah IMO See cause I think that's a movie

[00:44:52] Where he's playing it like he is in a comedy Right Versus Bale who I think is playing it Like he's in a drama Which makes him funny Yeah Okay so in the fucking prestige Oh yeah She's like let's start with poor Piper They're two little working magicians

[00:45:04] They work for Ricky J Well first Michael Cain tells you the entire movie Right he does Right of course it starts Right in the rest The first image is It tells you the twist Yeah Which is the beauty of this movie Agreed Totally

[00:45:17] It puts everything out there right away They show you the twist ending They show you Jackman drowning Are you watching closely Right Yes Michael Cain explains how the structure of the movie Is going to work Yes That you're going to pay attention to the wrong part Uh huh

[00:45:30] And think that you figured it out But it's actually this Which is totally what I did How you When I was a teenager Right This movie's for closers Right Uh huh And then cross cut with that You see you know Christian Bale Sneaking backstage Right Going in

[00:45:45] Seeing Hugh Jackman die Being framed there at the wrong moment Yeah This movie is giving you like In classic Christopher and Holland fashion Like five temporalities within the first five Yes He loves a temporality So it's like court case Yeah you've got the court case

[00:45:57] But right you're also flashing to the actual death Right And then you're also Then there's Michael Cain Hugh Jackman on the train reading the notebook Right He's off to see Tesla Right And then the When he's Michael Cain wherever time period that's in

[00:46:10] Which is like when his daughter The daughter has grown But like you can't tell otherwise Right And he's doing tricks for her Yeah he's doing the bird And also Which is also like Like a key part of the movie that you don't understand How important it is Yeah

[00:46:24] Right Michael Cain is also terrific So good I feel like this is really Because he's great Aaron Batman begins doing his thing But I think this is where Nolan locks into him being like You need to explain all my movies Right Where he's like

[00:46:39] Oh my movies don't work without this guy Right Everyone's confused Also he is ultimately The most likeable person Oh 1,000% Which is like something that I love about this movie Like how both of them are Kind of like I mean part Of the point of this movie is how

[00:46:53] Obsessing over something starts to chip away at your humanity Yes You know And he's the one who actually has like moral concerns He does Who tries to do the right thing Well and there's this like You know like obsession is a very popular theme in movies

[00:47:04] Because most directors are very obsessive And a lot of directors tend to make their best films About obsession Finding a character who works as an analog For them striving for this ideal perfection That they can never reach And also Right and this is a movie broadly about art

[00:47:17] Like Yeah absolutely In ways in which it can be presented About performance About dressing something up and like But it's not real An idea Not being everything to you know Get success Right that's the thing like Zodiac And Lost City of Z are both movies

[00:47:31] That function that same kind of way But minus the performance element Which makes I do too But that makes this movie a better reflection Of Christopher Nolan's instincts Because it is His whole thing is he loves being able to like

[00:47:42] Have the audience in the palm of his hands Have them confused Lead him into the light Make everything make sense Hey look here it is Right and I think the moment that's like The most telling jumping way ahead Is when Hugh Jackman is underneath the floorboards

[00:47:56] While the applause is happening He does the bow underneath That's the best shot in the movie It's kind of like the director's life In a nutshell Yeah For 100 Yeah absolutely It's like you're just sitting there People are enjoying your thing

[00:48:08] And you're just kind of in the shadow somewhere Oh they like it Yeah And if they clap It's not probably going to be for you No No That would not at all I also just love that Yeah when the Just along the Just on that line When the

[00:48:24] What's the drunk called? Whatever the drunk is The drunken Hugh Jackman Yeah When he comes out That's his character's name And he just does The like The movements And they're like Oh it's him Like how did you do it And it's like Come on

[00:48:38] Nolan's got a little bit of Like that's pretty cute For a director that I've seen Like that About acting Yeah That's fine That's it Anyway But yes Yes it's about art And it's about Sacrifice obsession A lot of when directors Make their obsession movies It's like

[00:48:56] This is what I could have become If I didn't keep myself in line Like I feel like those movies Are always the alternate reality of like Fincher could have become Gray Smith Sure You know Like with card catalogs In his basement

[00:49:08] Maybe I feel like he's kind of close already Anyway Yeah 100% That's why he needs to make World War Z too Really bring him to the smil Trashing down the ground Yes I hear that movie secretly a comedy though World War Z too I would love nothing more

[00:49:20] Do you think the zombies know they're in a movie? It's really a comedy if you're being attention Is Pitt gonna be in that? I saw that movie I remember if Pitt does I hope it'd be so funny if Pitt's not in it He lives He lives

[00:49:32] That's the only reason The only reason Fincher's doing that movie Is it's happening It has to be I want to zoom I can't wait to hear where this fucking Take is on that Whether it's good or bad Whatever makes him want to do that movie

[00:49:44] Is gonna be so weird Yeah But I agree The neither characters Likeable Right They're both Deliberately alienating Yes Even though I think the movie does end with This sort of note of like Well Christian Bale in the end Was the Mozart And you know Hugh Jackman

[00:50:04] Was the Salieri or whatever But I still find the Bale character Like so monstrous But also the first hour of the movie I think at least they try to present Jackman to you as being likeable Yeah No for sure The first half Bale is

[00:50:18] You know he dies at the end Like all this stuff The crucial thing is Cain really does think he's dead Yeah Like that's another reason Like he's not tricking us He plays things close to the chest Yes Because when they do their worst thing

[00:50:31] They can't let Cain's cutter Into it Because like you say He's the moral Gotta keep your hands Cain But we also We see that he ties the knot He ties the knot that is responsible For a paper or a dying Yes You know like we see it

[00:50:47] Why does he tie the fucking knot? Well like I think it's interesting that Like throughout the movie when he heaps being like You know I don't know if I did it or not Right And Hugh Jackman thinks he's just being a jackass And you're like no

[00:50:58] He's two people And they're fighting over whether they did this Because one of them doesn't know Right You know Why did he tie that knot? Because he thinks he knows better That's the other thing that makes him so Unlikable in the first chunk of the movie

[00:51:10] Is he so arrogant He's so brash Yeah It is this like bail character where it's like He's so unconcerned with charisma Or showmanship But one of them is more unconcerned than the other one Right Correct That's the thing I love about this bail performance

[00:51:23] Is he actually does establish differences Between the two of them Especially if you're watching a few But they're relatively subtle They're relatively subtle But I also I swear to God One of the two characters is five pounds heavier Than the other one I've never gotten confirmation on this

[00:51:36] Where to God if you track the movie He's like wearing a little more padding or something No, his face is fatter I swear Bail's got a fat face Well I also wouldn't put it past him To like do that I think he did that He would do that

[00:51:47] I think he fucking did that And I've never gotten confirmation But I think bail went to him And was like can I have stuff at the beginning And stuff at the end So I can put on some weight And have a couple weeks where I can gain five

[00:51:55] I could absolutely believe it Because yeah you can Especially rewatching this I was like You can see the two different Twins very clearly Yes You can I mean A, performance styles B, I think their voices Are a little bit different

[00:52:09] One of them is lighter than the other one In terms of like One of them makes more jokes Right, one of them is just a little Right, a little more fun to be around Right, one of them is a little more gruff

[00:52:17] And one of them I think has a rounder face And it doesn't feel I love this Perestetic Perfum's conspiracy theory Yeah, which I also love Because it makes me Watching the movie feel like Hugh Jackman losing my mind Yes But like also we haven't talked about this

[00:52:29] But bail auditioned for Batman Begins In his machinist way Right He was like 85 pounds Right, Nolan was like Well you're great for the part But we have to film in nine months And he looked like this And he's like Give me six weeks Don't worry Too big

[00:52:44] Yeah, he came back fat He famously came back And Nolan was like Too much Yeah How? What did he do? I don't know What did he eat? He's gonna die Yeah He gained He gained 100 pounds He went from 130 to 230 And then was like Now I got my mask

[00:53:00] And then dropped down to 190 Because Nolan was like You're large You're too large You have to be a little more live Yeah Because even in Batman Begins When he's doing like The shirtless fighting scenes At the Ninja temple He's like bulky He says yeah He's a bulky

[00:53:15] For the Dark Knight movies He's like he is live He's kind of sinewy But I truly think he gained weight For one of these two characters Which is like It's one of those things The way I talk about Tom Hanks Where it's like Great to watch Tom Hanks

[00:53:28] A guy who's good at his job Play people who are good at their job It's great to watch Christian Bale Destroy himself Playing people who obsessively Destroy themselves But he's good at it Because I feel like a lot of actors Do this bullshit and it's annoying Right?

[00:53:41] Yeah, yeah Well it's so Like you want to be padded on the back For being like Look at my commitment to this Look at what I'm doing It's usually very male It doesn't do that I mean it's Yes Well I mean that's

[00:53:52] I mean it's part of the reason why When you watch him do The first version of the The transported man trick And he's bad at it You're like I think you can see that Indifference in times to Actually pleasing the audience Yes, yes That speaks to him

[00:54:05] Like he doesn't really care About that part Well yes The Rosetta Stone with Bale I love that you don't even see The fucking trick The first time they showed That he like cuts Because he's like Look it doesn't even matter It doesn't matter But it's like Right

[00:54:18] It's like N.G.R. is like You know Someone who goes sees I don't know What's the equivalent Like a bad concert I don't know Like but he's like No but these guys are brilliant Yeah he's like This is the most incredible trick

[00:54:30] I've ever seen and no one even understands The Rosetta Stone with Bale For me is He's got some I guess it's like Amidace Right It's like salary I was going to say Bale as an actor Yeah no go ahead Right the thing is I think it's

[00:54:43] He's got the complex That a lot of former Child actors do Where they want to be taken seriously But a lot of Child actors do that By acting adult Trying to be extreme And you Like I've read Herodlita Right I've read a lot of interviews

[00:54:57] That are really professional I think it's gross How much money we get paid For it I think celebrity is A weird concept So if I'm going to have All these benefits I want to know I'm doing Enough work to feel Like it's justified So he obsessively

[00:55:10] Wants to do the work To make it feel like Real That he preserves this Right so it feels Like with him There's not that level Of posturing That a lot of The like Method guys have Because he's not bragging About it And he also admits

[00:55:25] The only reason I'm doing Like he's not going like Look at how serious an actor I am He's like this whole job is ridiculous So if I'm not putting this much into it I feel like I'm slacking off And it feels like

[00:55:35] That's the bar he keeps on setting For himself So it comes from just this Insane obsession That makes it like more engaging To watch than when it's just Like fuck I get it I see what you're doing You know You know what you said Yeah

[00:55:47] And it feels very in line With this character Who's just like There has to be a better Version of this Right You know There has to be a better Pure way to do this Pure Yeah He wants it to be pure Because Jackman is

[00:56:00] Like he just wants to put on a great show He wants to entertain people You want to give applause At the end Yeah As he says right at the end of the movie Right He's like it was about their faces Right Like their faces

[00:56:11] And Bale's all about technical skill It's just about like Can I get to the point where It doesn't even look like I'm doing anything Right Can I be the best Can I be the best at it Yeah Even if they don't know it Right

[00:56:22] They're both so well cast in this Yeah And the real thing is how it feeds into Who both of them seem to be as actors And even more so in the 11 years Since this movie's come out Like it's The movie's gotten more powerful

[00:56:33] Because of how their legacies have continued It's true Jackman does seem to be chasing our Smiles a little more Than a total Vermicillitude or whatever You know Well I mean like when Bale In this movie Like goes off on one of his Kind of like sulky Tantra Yes

[00:56:52] Like Christian Bale Like don't you start getting on the stand Yeah Did I tell the thing I heard about the The DP on Terminator That he sucks Yeah You told us off Mike I can't remember if it was on Mike

[00:57:04] Can you say the Brendan Fraser story on Mike? Cause that's a fascinating story If you don't want to I don't know Ohhhh Alright tell her off Mike That really blew my mind I might tell it later It's a really good story It's a really good Really good

[00:57:17] I might tell it on another episode That's a tease That's the pledge So they're magicians They work for Ricky J Yeah Yeah poor Ricky J also gets to be the hack in this movie Like the greatest magician alive But Ricky J alone And yeah

[00:57:30] He's the illusionist as well Right Every magic you have He needs to have the perfunctory Ricky J He's always your magic consultant All of it Cause he knows about the history of magic He's got the biggest library He understands Ricky J is pretty cool He is of course

[00:57:44] He manages his hangout with him And having him throw playing cards Into watermelons So crazy When I can't fall asleep at night I watch Ricky J videos I find Ricky J very calming He seems very soothing He's got a great Like exactly A soothing presence

[00:57:58] But I've watched like every video of Ricky J On YouTube at least six times Cause I haven't saw him yet Right Here's in the great book Howard He was in the brothers bloom He's in so many like He's always in the movies Entertainer movies

[00:58:11] There's another one I'm trying to remember Where he's good He also plays Captain Amazing's manager In Magnolia Mystery man Mystery man Not Magnolia He is in Magnolia He's in state main He's in Deadwood He was so good at Deadwood Oh he was amazing at Deadwood

[00:58:24] Yeah it was so fucking good I like him a lasna actor Yeah But he plays a hack in this He's a shitty magician Right that they work for They're like shills for him They're plants Yeah they're plants Their job is to be the audience volunteers

[00:58:35] That tie the knots on Hugh Jackman's wife Piper Paribault He keeps kissing her leg Cause he can't resist her leg It's never really explained It seems odd to me That she had to do With a really dangerous escape trick She's like the assistant basically On stage

[00:58:51] And yet she has to do the hardest trick And you never see an assistant Do anything complicated I mean I guess they saw women in half And so that's alluded to All the usual crap This character sucks The Ricky J character is a shitty magician

[00:59:02] He's sticking out with the most dangerous job He's like Arnold Schwarzenegger And Batman and Robin He's like I have my stand in there But I do love that you have Kane off stage with an axe And the watch That's what you need Michael That's what Michael Kane does

[00:59:20] In Christopher Nolan movies He's like standing there with an axe Even days where he's not in the scene So he's just waiting around Yeah off camera in case something starts getting muddled And then he like bumps the watch And walks on screen and explains the movie

[00:59:33] So she dies Yes This is the inciting incident of the film Right they're arguing at the beginning Of the movie about what kind of knot is best And Christian Bale some nights Thinks that there's a better knot And Bale's like or Kane is like doesn't fucking matter

[00:59:46] Just do the knot Do the knot you're told to do And you also have that early scene Where they Slip in the knot They go to see the Chinese magician Who does the crazy curtain tricks I love the one scene where they're kind of both

[00:59:57] Just these young magicians who just like Love watching other people's movies Like geeking out I almost want more of it Because they are sweet But that is right Like the point of the movie is that They are each others like soul mate In the most twisted way possible

[01:00:10] Like no one else in their life Is more important than this person This person they try to destroy They're the two people who fucking love magic This one Because that's the whole thing about The transported man He's showing it to an audience

[01:00:22] It's like oh he's over there now Great and Jackman's like that was so good He's like the only one His real audience is just this one guy For each of them Like all they really want Is for the other one to see their

[01:00:34] Transported man and go like that's the best trick Right you did it right Cause even Michael Kane when he sees it He's like oh he's got a double I mean that's the I mean again like you said about The prestige it's like

[01:00:46] How do you do it Michael Kane's like Oh he doesn't has a double Questions answered He says what it is It's amazing rewatching this movie The first hour they tell you 80 times What the movie is what's gonna happen They keep on saying it

[01:00:58] They keep on saying it's like Some days you're like this Colorado and he's like you know What's the secret to David Bowie Yes but that's how we David Bowie And it's like Michael Kane magic machine That's the last line in the movie Like people don't want to know

[01:01:11] They want to be fooled When the whole movie he keeps on saying Like well there's two of them He keeps saying it like In how he frames stuff And how he shoots stuff The fact that Fallon never has a fucking line

[01:01:22] No I know and it's like yeah right And is he just sitting around Often not fully like his face Not being shown He doesn't let you see his face For more than a second at a time No it's always But it's done so showily It is yes right

[01:01:32] All the attention to the fact that Especially since everyone else In the movie is played by A god damn acting legend Right yes Like even Roger Reese shows up To like say five lines You know like And so it's like oh yeah Who plays Christian Bale's guy

[01:01:43] I don't know Jimmy no name That's why I remember cracking in the theaters Was I said like There's no way that's not somebody So who's that guy playing Fallon you know We were similar people And that's how I was too I was like I know the billing

[01:01:53] Right is it Eddie Marsden Like who is it It's gonna be someone like that Could be Eddie Marsden It could have been Yeah yeah And the cuts were so quick I kept on being like Why are they not giving us a look

[01:02:02] At him it has to be for a reason Yeah And then you start to realize Okay it's a guy in makeup His face looks prosthetic And of course Michael Cain is saying He has a double But you know what Eddie Marsden isn't Of what The illusion Oh

[01:02:15] The greatest trick of all He transported into the other movie Yeah exactly No but it does You know I remember feeling like you Not as angry about it But just being like Okay I got it It's the twin thing It's the brother thing That's what's going on here

[01:02:33] Now I'm just gonna enjoy a well made movie I know where the twist is I know where it's coming I never try to guess twists I don't know how I watch movies I don't either But I feel like looking at the twin thing Is the twist

[01:02:42] Is like the wrong way to look at this movie Right I looked it wrong That's the whole point of the movie Is he's making a look at this hand And then the other hand You're like look at this horrible grotesque thing Because that's the thing Final reveal

[01:02:53] I think also the first time I saw this movie And this maybe was a reaction Other people shared I don't know I was like Wait so Tesla created A machine that clones people Yeah And I was just like It's a really powerful machine really

[01:03:06] It's like being totally misused Exactly And I'm like He can create matter That's definitely what it is Defies the laws of thermodynamics It completely defies any law But he also knows it's a bad idea No he totally knows it's a bad idea

[01:03:19] And I was so wrapped up in it And of course that the idea Right that the ultimate trick As he says when he's doing the trick Where he's like this is magic It's science I'm like oh wait And I Look I was an idiot

[01:03:30] Sometimes you're stupid in college Sometimes you're stupid in college They should put that on a fucking teaser And I'm so obsessed We'll talk about the machine later Alright so She dies She drowns Her name is Julia Julia Piper Parable And they've had this night

[01:03:50] Where they went to the show together Where they saw the old man with the fish bowl Yeah I just love that He must be a real magician There was a real magician And then there was a white guy Who basically stole his act Jesus

[01:04:00] Lived in character as a Chinese person Which then becomes the basis for Colin Firth And that what do you have? A little circle I was hoping you were going to the circle What do you have made two magician movies In the last ten years? He likes magician movies

[01:04:13] What if I'm featuring Yellowface I'm featuring a recent Oscar winner Emerging in his first scene in Yellowface And you're like yeah Right And having sex with a near teenager They don't have sex They don't? No Don't they end up together? They end up together They will have sex

[01:04:31] I mean they're going to have a little magic in the moonlight I think it's a good one That movie is pretty bad I would agree with that Maybe they do have sex I don't fucking remember But Bale has that line where they're watching him Go to his carriage

[01:04:43] And he goes that's it It has to be a fish ball between the knees And he goes I'm looking at him He stays in character And Bale says Like he's always in character To the devotion to the craft That's the thing He's like that's the performance right there

[01:04:52] That's the part that matters Yeah And he's blown away And Jackman is kind of like me As David sit where I'm like That's a lot of work Great You have to do that What I love about it is Bale saying this Can't there be a machine

[01:05:06] Bale saying this And the first time you're watching the movie You feel like that's the movie calling it shot Like now that's what this guy's going to do Sure But in reality this guy's been doing that for years already Like he's reaffirming what he's already

[01:05:17] The sacrifice he's made that it's worth it Yeah Because he knows Yeah It's also impressive that he takes that long When you think of it To actually do this trick He's been preparing his whole life for Right Because he's referring to a right from the beginning

[01:05:31] He's like it's not ready Right Transported man Yeah It's coming Well but I think the thing is He's like I need to do it on the right stage You know If I blow it too early It's like my career has to build up to this

[01:05:44] I need to do this at the moment When I have the right amount of eyes On me You know it's sort of like You know It's like a director saying like This is my dream project But I can't make this until I have a couple movies

[01:05:56] Under my belt I need the experience to be able to adapt this Or make this script on the right budget You know Yeah I did it when he does it the first time It is that really underwhelming With the ball I love how underwhelming it is Yeah

[01:06:09] Like that scene is maybe my favorite in the movie Yeah Agreed Do you think he was like How do I crack it And then finally he was like I know a ball A ball He's just like and his persona The professor is so terrible It sucks

[01:06:21] Like he's so bad He's so bad at that part of magic But then when he humiliates The great Danton later He's a locker He's pretty good then Right He's into it He's like Yeah No And he's got the big mustache And like Yeah right

[01:06:37] He's finally figured it out a little bit Right Cause I was looking at those character posters And it says like You know Hugh Jackman is the great Danton Good fucking name And then the other one says Christian Bell is the professor And I was like

[01:06:48] Before I rewatched the movie I was like He's the professor That's his fucking persona But no He is Alfred Borden Yes And Sometimes Freddie Sometimes Borden That's another thing You see when he corrects people Which thing to call him Right One of them goes by Borden more

[01:07:04] One of them that goes by Alfred more And Hugh Jackman is Robert Angier Yes Yes Lord Cal Was it Lord Caldwell? Caldlow Caldlow He changes name Cause his family's embarrassed Yes And Piper suggests The great Danton And a little foofy Then she dies So he sticks with him

[01:07:25] And now Now he's got something to prove But interspersed with all this Is yes You see Robert going to Colorado To find Tesla On the train Bringing his notebooks Trying to find Tesla The inventor of all training current Who is being besieged Like the D-plot in this movie

[01:07:40] Is that Edison's after it Well that's it Like they are other two rivals They are One who's like better Who's got the better product But is like worse at showmanship And the other Who's like Tasting him around Right And he's going to win Cause that's the thing

[01:07:54] Tesla's invented the coolest Fucking thing in the world But his idea is like What if I just put it in a stage And turn it on Everyone's like This thing's terrifying Like I can't deal with this And then he won't show up To explain it Yeah Yeah Right

[01:08:07] And when I mean Bowie's great Yeah If anyone's going to be Like a wizard scientist On a mountain Like David What an incredible man That's the one Nolan went for Come to my mountain lab That's very good Thank you Like cause I think Like I said

[01:08:23] Like Jackman and Bale I almost pursued the roles But Nolan I think Like went to a pilgrimage to Bowie And was like You are the only person I have in mind Cause he hadn't done a real movie In a while He'd done like Playing himself in Zoolander

[01:08:34] For a scene But I feel like this was His first like dramatic performance In a long time First since Basically since Basket Basket I mean He is in like Everybody loves sunshine I've never heard of that It's some British indie movie That never came out Yeah

[01:08:50] It's basically his first since he played Warhol In Besky One of the better Warhol Who are other I mean Guy Pierce Bill Hader Yeah Trying to think of Warhol's Who plays him in I Shot Any Warhol Jared Harris He's good Haven't seen that movie in a long time

[01:09:06] Yeah Anyway Just Tesla Yeah Right So he's going to Tesla We don't totally know why at this point No But And he's reading Bale's Diary Right And Bale is reading his Diary Right Yes Yes Because we also have Bale in prison Right Bale's in prison and he's reading

[01:09:25] Yeah They're both reading each other's Diaries Both of which they have written Knowing that the other will read this Like you say they love each other They love each other They really just want to be with each other This movie has two unreliable narrators

[01:09:36] Like most of the stories being told To characters Three Because Cutter doesn't know That The trick wasn't real Yeah Was real Yeah Crazy fucking movie I know And I think that's one reason it maybe put people off And I also think the fact that it's doing Nolan's

[01:09:54] Favorite thing of sort of moving Time around Yeah And Batman Begins does it You know where it's like Let me do his origin Yeah His teen years And his Batman training All at the same time Just kind of muddled together Yeah So yeah Maybe people were just like

[01:10:09] Oh he's just doing his whole thing But it doesn't feel It doesn't feel showy Or like Westworld Which Jonathan Nolan was Like where so much of the timeline Was just to deliberately withhold information Like it doesn't feel like that Like I think that this movie feels very elegant

[01:10:24] In the way it jumps around Yes, agreed I mean Jonathan Nolan is definitely The lesser Nolan when it comes to this stuff I mean look I enjoyed watching Westworld I did too Yeah But I mean Inception even Is a movie You know that like It's very heavy handed

[01:10:39] Correctly Because it has to be Make everything make sense About like Look we're cutting from this We'll get to that Yeah Yeah, we'll get to that We'll have to go deeper But we'll have to go very deep Um But I do think No guess for that episode

[01:10:53] I do think this is a movie where A Everything builds up And builds into a point It's a very thematic movie And it's very concerned with a Select number of ideas And everything ties into that Yep And B it's a movie

[01:11:07] And it's a smaller movie in a way too It's not a lot of character And also by making a movie about magicians The structure of the movie reflects the material It's not just like Oh look it's a trick for the sake of a trick

[01:11:18] Which is the problem with a lot of twist ending movies Is like You've built an entire movie just around the rug pole And it's like Yeah but is it a fucking movie You've just It's just a misdirect But this movie is entirely about the notion Of Misdirecting people

[01:11:31] Right Is this the best magic movie? I mean What other ones are there I was gonna say Magic Mike Now you see me too How do you feel about those? I mean they should be my favorite movies of all time They should be And they're not

[01:11:44] And it's like the saddest thing for me I'm like This premise is all I want from a movie Yeah I don't know I think that It's funny Watching it Re-watching it this time I was like This movie actually should be Maybe too much Too neat

[01:11:59] Like everything ties back around to those points Like even little details Even down to the diaries Like they say And in a way where it's It's so focused on getting to that ending That it should be annoying But I do think that the control of it Works here

[01:12:13] And I feel like to the point where The twist for me Doesn't feel like a twist It feels like The final reveal To help you understand these two characters Correct You know I mean That's why the movie works Because it cares about the characters More than the

[01:12:28] Model timeline Or the You know Well that's a thing of magic The thing about Nolan is He is the sky of structures Of big ideas Of narrative twists But I think he does You know He's not a great humanist But he does care about characters

[01:12:42] A lot more than a lot of these sort of Cold calculated Master plan directors do And that like He clearly fucking loves actors He casts really well He has good dialogue And he's got like a good sense Of atmosphere I mean this is just a movie where like

[01:12:57] Every room they go into Feels fully realized Is it a well designed movie? It's got a great sense of time It's got a great sense of time and place I love the field of lights Right The field of lights is beautiful Beautiful the hats The theaters

[01:13:10] Where the theater space is When they're setting up And it feels like The world is fully realized And it's got such a good Like This I mean I feel like by default This has to be the best magic movie Because this is the movie

[01:13:22] That feels like it represents magic The best In movies about obsession Or about like a fielder In industry What I love is when I see it And I'm like Like a magician Where the movie makes the thing Look so compelling Even if it's fucking up The character's life

[01:13:37] It makes it look so satisfying To get it right This is the only thing That anyone should do is magic Yeah Well it also gives you that sense Of like every little niche community Where you're like This person's a big shot in it And everyone's gossiping

[01:13:48] About these other people It gives you the sense of The world of magic As like something that exists That is petty It's like that thing of like Watching like Jiro dreams Of sushi and being like Fuck I should cook You know That's the only good thing

[01:13:59] I should devote my life to Learning to cook sushi rice Like for the time you're watching The movie and under that trance It just like sets up that world so well And like the respect within that world And the sort of pursuits And the ambitions And the ideals

[01:14:11] I will say about this movie Nolan has made a lot of movies About obsession Or about a calling It's when I do not Like interstellar Because I think it like Half-asses The message it tries to give About having a calling And feeling torn

[01:14:24] But I think this movie is the best At that Because it also is not afraid To have its two main characters Be monstrous at times You know Like that It doesn't really want to redeem them Right And it does not require you to go along

[01:14:37] With them in this obsession It just allows it to be there Because to me it's like When Borden does reveal like To Twin and we've committed to this And he says This line that's like You know we each had half a life But that was enough for me

[01:14:53] Right like barely It was enough barely And you're like What? No it wasn't You ruined the lives of everyone around you It's horrible what you did Like you know but he In his head he's like No we did it just right Like that was perfect

[01:15:05] Well but that's maybe a key to this movie Working so well Is that this is the only Nolan movie I'm running through my head To confirm this I will stand by this This is the only Nolan movie That's really a two-hander Every other Nolan movie is

[01:15:19] A main character That you're following And supporting characters around them And by having the two-hander Both characters are unlikable But he's also able To constantly shift the status They both have tragedies in their life They're both appealing in different ways Not appealing in different ways

[01:15:35] So you can kind of go like Okay well now I'm more with Jackman Because what Bale did was fucked up And then Jackman does something fucked up You're like okay I'm good with Bale This is a movie about a prank war

[01:15:46] A prank war breaks out in the middle of this movie This movie's based on Jake and Amir Yeah me pranks A lady gets her hands broken I know cause it loses fingers Yeah he shoots him Yeah the bullet catch scene that's rough And then the fall

[01:16:02] Into the no pillows Yeah leaning straight on the leg Yeah they maim each other They really are not nice to each other Nolan does the exact same move in Dark Knight With Eric Roberts where the guy lands On the ground on his feet

[01:16:17] It's like one of the most painful things To watch in a movie It's a rough stunt I think about both of those moments In this and Dark Knight as like visceral Like oh I hate that He lets you see it just for a second

[01:16:27] But it's plenty like yeah And they do good sound effects Like the splintering Swear to me Fuck We've even gone to that show So Tesla Is he made a Tesla coil That clones people I think I just So there's a ship of VCS essentially

[01:16:49] Right? Like that's what this is He makes this is something I really just want to talk to you guys about Because it really freaked me out the first time I saw it This device makes another You

[01:17:01] Do you guys know what I mean by the ship of VCS metaphor It's like you I think it's a Greek It would sound like it would be Philosophical question which is like If you have a ship And slowly over time you replace every part

[01:17:15] Of the ship with a new part But you never at any point like scuttled the ship Is it still the same ship or is it a new ship And the same thing happened to us We use up all our atoms and our molecules

[01:17:25] And they get replaced all the time At a certain point we're a different person But we're not He uses the cloning machine It makes a clone of him or it makes a new him With a balcony He goes in the water So every time he dies

[01:17:41] He kills himself again and again and again But he always wants to do it again That's what blows my mind the most about this movie Because that guy didn't die That's the only thing that Take a pull bro The only thing

[01:17:55] That new copy doesn't have a memory of Is dying They have his entire life All the way there and then the last thing that happens To that guy after the zap, the only thing that happens Is into the tank

[01:18:07] But they feel like as fully formed a human being With the entire sense of memory And emotions and history And then they have to kill themselves Right but do they know that they're going to kill themselves I don't think so because he looks surprised

[01:18:19] When he goes in the tank Well he says that thing about Like I never knew every night if I would be the man in the box Or the man in the prestige That suggests almost like This sense of like He doesn't understand that they're both him

[01:18:33] Right, okay, I think I love this shit I think he's looking surprised on purpose A, just because even if you know you're going to die He's drowning it, it's horrible And they emphasize it's drowning I love that where Kane at the first when she drowned He's like, beautiful

[01:18:51] It's like eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich I think it's the record Yeah, then later he's like, no it's bad That's like eating a poo-poo in pee-pee sandwich Why I? I think that's the line he says right Like eating a poo-poo in pee-pee sandwich Yes, exactly

[01:19:07] But I think that's why The tank is set up the way it is With the lock going on automatically And he'll take the chance to second guess and go actually let me out Because he does kill the first clone he makes Yeah

[01:19:19] He didn't really think it through, did he? No He wants to make sure there's no exit And also the second thing is I think when he sees Bale there He plays it up more because this is part of his bigger plan To get Bale arrested You're right

[01:19:35] That's true, Bale needs to be in on the bit Not be in on the bit But I do like the idea anyway I mean it's horrible every time Every time That's why it's so good It's literally the worst thing It's dying It's driving a lot of pride

[01:19:53] See, I thought it would have been fun To have like an apartment full Of the clones kind of like a multiplicity Kind of thing And then he realizes they're escaping So then he starts killing them That'd be a great sequel to the prestige

[01:20:07] Which is like now he's got to kill these clones Or they start a pizza place But that's Like in multiplicity Yes, exactly That's what the plot with the drunk actor is He's trying to do that Where he's like what if I just have a clone And then immediately

[01:20:25] He doesn't want that guy getting me applause And of course the guy is like oh you need me So whatever Give me a ham sandwich, I don't know what you want I'm just going to go to the bathroom quickly I'll be back in a second

[01:20:37] But the thing is What was I going to say What the fuck was I going to say He kills himself every time The fact that he's killing himself In the way that his wife died Is like one of those nice little Obsessive notes that I love so much

[01:20:53] That he like maybe feels there's something Important about that Because at the beginning Cain's like This will close it in particular significance I don't know Hey, what's going on? Yeah, exactly, it's Griffin Well call me Finn How many minutes are we in? Yeah, we're doing great

[01:21:13] What were we just talking about? The fact that he's always killing himself Like his wife dies And what we were talking about before that So there's this video game I love Soma I just want to talk about it for one minute Which is about

[01:21:29] You're a person whose brain has been transplanted Into a new body way into the future And midway through the game You have to move from your body to a new body And so you do that Because your old body doesn't work for the next thing

[01:21:41] You have to go into And then when you're in the new body You're confronted with your old body is right there And the computer's like Well yeah, that's you too We copied you Oh that's you also It's not the band And so they're like

[01:21:59] So what do you want to do about this You want to let it live And you get to pick because it's a video game Of course And I love just that idea The copy pace Where it's like you still got You got the old one to worry about

[01:22:15] You can't just move consciousnesses You just made another one that's the exact same Or is it? Yeah, well especially when you've got Bale's character sharing his life With this double of the whole time And Jackman's first instinct is like He's an A-list movie star and Christian Bale's

[01:22:31] Like a committed character actor And that fits both of their vibes Have I ever told the story about the DP on Terminator with Christian Bale This year doing this No, you haven't, yeah You've told the story Yeah he always does the light On this episode?

[01:22:49] Right, yeah, yeah of course Bale's better at it Or what's his name, Borden's better at it than you Finn I'm just here to talk about the Precise like I've always been I've always been here talking about the Well is there anything else about the

[01:23:05] Precise you want to talk about? We talked about all the major threads And it all sort of wraps up Out of order, well much like the movie Much like the movie, I'm trying to think If there's anything, well there's Scarlett Johansson

[01:23:17] We haven't talked about her or Rebecca Hall Rebecca Hall, you talk about Rebecca Hall I think Rebecca Hall is very good in this movie This was the first time I took notice of her Because she was in the start of her 10

[01:23:27] The same year, which is a nice little movie Yeah, and it does a nice job Of showing the progression of their relationship So that she's On board, she understands That there's something strange But she's at peace with it for a while That she's like sometimes you love me

[01:23:43] And sometimes you don't, and that's not great You're mercurial, yes And then at the end it totally destroys her That thing where she says Do you love me and he's like not today Yeah, well she has that line early on Where she says it too

[01:23:57] Where she's like some days you don't mean it But it's fine because it makes The days where you do mean it mean more And she thinks she's okay with it That's early on when she's still sort of Idealistic, she's like

[01:24:09] I got this husband who's not always going to be there for me emotionally But I'm okay with it Because the days when he's good are good But any other one starts sleeping with Scarjo Yeah That's a problem Yeah, he's an asshole

[01:24:23] Yeah, the other guy, yeah, there's definitely a mean twin An evil twin and a good twin There is, he's the punk twin He's very punk And so you've got Olivia Wenscombe The Scarjo character in the middle here Right

[01:24:37] The idea of her is she's being used as a pawn By Jackman And she rebels And she's supposed to have this big moment Where she's like, you know Asserting herself And then I feel like that just doesn't go She knows that they're both using her Right?

[01:24:55] They basically tell her Like both of them are like, we need something from you Right The character, I mean it's just It's just a weird character to me because everyone else Has these sort of fuller She's supposed to be More desperate than I think they really

[01:25:11] When she's sleeping at the theater and things like that The idea that she really has nothing else She's playing it all wrong, yeah She's got a lot of interiority to her And she plays it just like some kind of like Happy to be here

[01:25:23] I think she's genuinely struggling with the accent I think so too, I think that's a big part of it And it kind of fades away by the end Because you kind of feel like Rebecca Hall In this exact same role Would have made it into something

[01:25:35] It's still not a very well written character It's mostly a plot function But you would have bought it being a fully rounded human being Who seemingly had their own interests Whereas with Joe Hansen you just see her going Like a sex word Andy Serkis has

[01:25:49] He's doing a better job with the same way Yeah, he really is worried about his cat Like I love that Right, he's like the least important character in the movie But you got the one thing that matters to him I may be your dog's body

[01:26:01] I may have moved to Colorado Springs To the top of a mountain But don't kill my cat Do you have that thing where if you Whenever you see Andy Serkis in a live action movie You wonder how it would look in MoCat He's got a weird looking face

[01:26:15] And he also is a big actor So it's like when I see him in something like this Where he's having fun chewing the scenery For a couple scenes I'm like So if he was like a monkey doing this Would it look a little more naturalistic?

[01:26:27] I always think of King Kong The worm that looks like a penis Just like eats his face Always like what I think whenever I see his face And Peter Jackson was like, hey Andy great news I'm gonna let you be on camera for this one

[01:26:39] How do you feel about living penises Just 6 foot penises You ever want to get eaten by one? What were you gonna say? It looks all four skin Have you seen War Apes? Yes I thought, I mean he's amazing He is amazing

[01:26:57] I have no discreence with you on that But I just saw it and I didn't like it I feel like it was okay It is okay Like as greatly moved by it as many people are I've been seeing it, I love that franchise It's a larger franchise

[01:27:11] I love the new version I liked Dawn a lot And this felt like Dawn to me And it wasn't enough new about it And I was a little like lost It's very biblical Jesus and Moses in there Boy oh boy Boy is there, it's very funny too

[01:27:29] Really funny crackling I'm joking It has like a Turuk the first flight It has like a very tragic Comic-relief character It's a T-Zone character Could not be more unborn for that He is great And you're like, oh yeah right this is this Franchises version of a comic-relief character

[01:27:49] I'm so unborn I really didn't like it I feel, yeah But you didn't like Dawn either? No I liked Dawn So you like this less than Dawn Interesting I like the world of Dawn a little better too Like the look of this movie is a little boring

[01:28:07] It just seems a lot more abstract Like you're like where did all the stuff In the world go Yeah, Dawn has a little more stuff Anyway Just wanted to get your Happy to weigh in All Apes thoughts Yeah so Borden is hung by the neck

[01:28:27] We are doing this in such a scattered way What am I missing here? It's a hard movie to talk through Unless you literally have like a plot synopsis In front of you Right, but yeah essentially Jackman's got this magical machine

[01:28:43] Realizes the sacrifice it's going to need to take Bail is hung in jail But only after That's the other element we forgot Jackman there has been a man Who's been offering money Representing another man lord Being like can I have your secrets

[01:29:01] And he's hoping he just wants to set up a good life for his daughter He's hoping he's going to be able to get out of there And reluctantly he's giving up more and more and more You see Kane dealing with Roger Reese Saying please don't take this

[01:29:13] Don't take the Tesla machine This machine is fucked up, everything else whatever It is weird that like Before the car came around This was kind of Tesla's like biggest Impact this century Being in the prestige Yeah it was like oh Tesla prestige guy I feel like this is

[01:29:31] The internet decided Tesla was cool Or became like an on-vote thing Jack White Oh yeah If you're a Tesla And you can make a machine that can reproduce anything Why do you need money from Hugh Jackman Here's what you do You take a dollar bill

[01:29:51] You put it in the machine Don't have to kill anybody, you just get to spend $2 You could make a bunch of hats Go into hats sales What he's going to do, he's got to place a giant piggy bank In that part of the wood so the money goes

[01:30:03] Straight into the piggy bank Did they not know where the hats were landing? That's my problem when he's like oh here are the hats And they're like I never thought to look around the corner 30 feet over there where there's a pile of top hats

[01:30:13] I always thought that was just the famous hat forest Colorado's hats, they grow on trees There's some jerks that we throw their hats away over there You know there's some things that are Impressionistic It's movie logic And those images like the image of the hats

[01:30:29] The hats is so good The image of the bind assistance They're so cool The light bulbs going into the ground That's incredible Nolan at this point wasn't getting Oscar Noms except for Fister Yeah Fister got a NOM for this And he had gotten one for that

[01:30:47] For Batman Begins as well And he wins for Inception I feel like If this movie came out now it would be an Oscar movie Possibly Our ideas of Oscar movies have changed a lot I was going to say not only because Nolan is more famous But also because

[01:31:03] The Oscars have turned In a major way away from Which a lot has to do with Nolan We talk about that in our Dark Knight episode But a lot of it is that there was such a sort of mental Collapse after that movie didn't get nominated

[01:31:15] Where they were like more films What are the kids like Is Fister ever going to be a DP again You know the guy Or he just doesn't want to do it anymore He's a great DP The sense of guys he doesn't want to do it anymore

[01:31:29] But he's one of the best living DP His last movie is Dark Knight Rises That's it And Moneyball before that Which I think is an incredible movie A movie that could be so unsanimatic No it's wonderful He does a lot of really interesting stuff in that movie

[01:31:45] But anyway Aber Cadabra Abordinateies After talking to Angie That's what you were linking up to Hugh Jackman reveals himself And Bale is like okay Good 10 comedy points Great work He really is like yeah you got me Okay thought you were dead Good work What do you want

[01:32:07] And he gives him one assumes a piece of paper On which is written like I have a twin brother And we cut his fingers off and shit And Jackman rips it up very ostentatiously Which is also like why did he write that

[01:32:19] I guess maybe just so someone could read it after he died There's an earlier bit too where Jackman Captures Fallon and puts him in the coffin And buries him alive He's like I didn't talk And that's when he gives him the Tesla turnkey Which is just a misdirect

[01:32:33] He sends him on a fucking McGuffin run That ends up actually working out Getting him a cloning machine Some bad luck on that guy's part But Bale keeps on saying like I'm gonna get out of here I'll prove but it's the same thing Jackman's doing

[01:32:45] He's willingly walking to his death And the other guy is now His brother's gonna take over his life raise the daughter He knows that a version of him will get to continue living But that guy is knowingly walking Yeah

[01:32:59] Unlike Jackman who's like I'm not gonna end up in the tank Right But Jackman who is like half dead at this point anyway Whatever terrible thing he did That's what I love about it Have you guys read the book that this is based on The weirder framing story

[01:33:13] It's been a long time since I read it No I read it after It's like basically set the present day In the framing story And it's like a little like Descendants are still sort of Weird It has like more verses

[01:33:29] So the reading the diary stuff is done present day And it's been a long time since I read this book But that Angier becomes A kind of weird immortal Like himself at that point because of all of the He keeps like

[01:33:43] It's like a copy of a copy of a copy Yeah basically He becomes like a ghost Yeah basically Like an immortal ghost but who's also this Sad Like pale imitation of himself Like Ian McShaded Scoop And the book also Bordens really into vaping Another thing I

[01:34:05] Another copy pasted brain Which is again you keep copy pasting your brain And like we're being told this story By someone who is so ruined by the experience That she's like the seventh version You're like a little off each time

[01:34:17] And it just like all of those things get exaggerated Classical simplicity Because this is looking number four exactly Yeah very sensitive performance By Michael Keaton Hey hey come on two of his performances Are great in that movie Did you see Spidey? I did He's really good at it

[01:34:35] I went to see I went to see Big Sick with Romley the other day You were supposed to see Spidey with Allison Yeah I was Forced to continue working Sorry But I saw Big Sick With my sister Romley and the trailer For American Assassin came up

[01:34:55] Is that what it's called? Whatever it's called And she just turns me and she went God this looks awful like this face that Rom will make where she's just like Smelled vomit Like just utter revolt To a movie troupe And I turned to her and I went

[01:35:11] And I just have no doubt that Keaton rules in that movie I guarantee if you saw American Assassin You'd be like this thing's boring But every time Keaton's on screen He's really good in Spider-Man I'm so excited This is a thing that's been hurting The Marvel Cinematic Universe

[01:35:29] Is that all of the best Marvel villains Spider-Man villains and they haven't had Well it's not really an interesting The villains have been up It's a different characterization It's not really a great version of the Vulture But it's a great Michael Keaton before

[01:35:43] I don't know anything about what the Vulture is supposed to be like And I just enjoyed him in this movie And I enjoyed the way the character was written Me too, I really did too It's kind of a troupe voter Oh like it

[01:35:55] I'll say this also not having seen the movie Even if like Have changed the villains a lot For the benefit of the story they're trying to tell But I think the thing that helps is A, the Spider-Man villains are great Visually

[01:36:09] They have great power sets, they have great iconography Great names, all that sort of stuff But also they're all street level villains Which the Marvel Cinematic movies Have had to have all these big cross marks Or things like that It's good to have some villains

[01:36:23] That are just trying to like steal some shit Yeah well it's good to have a movie where no one opens a portal in space But yeah Well maybe, but just to get back to your point about the novel Maybe that is kind of what's happened to Ingear

[01:36:33] Because he's so heartless in this final Confrontation with Borden Yeah he becomes the villain And like he's just been sapped of his soul By all these fucking clones They keep on talking about you know You want your hands to be clean

[01:36:47] And they're talking about it in reference to the doves most often Because how you do the dove trick Which everyone seemingly has a dove trick Right? You all have your take on the dove trick Are you willing to kill a dove Get your hands dirty

[01:36:59] Right I always think of rest development The dove in the fringe That dove do not open And even with that Christian Bale I think at one point says You were the lucky one today Like tells you what's going to happen It's like every line Christian Bale has

[01:37:15] For the first 45 minutes of this movie Is so on the nose It's incredible And it works Yeah and you're right if you want to be a great artist You're eventually going to end up with a basement full of dead clones Right In water tanks

[01:37:31] That's the moral of the movie Like Jack from the beginning of the movie Doesn't want to get his hands dirty And it also has a life He has like a home life So much of this movie is about The conflict between a home life And a professional dedication

[01:37:47] Which is in so many In inception, interstellar Like saying goodbye to your children And the relationship you have with your children Who are not ever characters in these movies They're always just like little chair-ups It is really interesting that Even fucking Dark Knight with the... Rachel The Joker

[01:38:07] Gordon's kids Oh yeah, yeah I was going to say it's really interesting We haven't talked about this yet That Nolan's closest and most consistent collaborator Is his wife He makes these movies about these obsessive guys Who sacrificed their family for something

[01:38:23] But his wife is this totally put together lady Who's always on set with him And it's fucking great together By all accounts they're like a lovely amazing couple They have an incredible work relationship An incredible home relationship And he also is known for like

[01:38:37] And this is such a fucking boss move That I think about all the time But he doesn't have a cell phone, doesn't have an email address And it's just like when I'm not working I'm with my family I'll be there here are the hours when I'm available

[01:38:49] Here's when I'm on set, here's my office But like if I go home I'm with my family Which is like, hey, God Imagine having that much power that you can do that Somebody's mad about the scheduling of his TV show I've won it since he's played her man

[01:39:01] And I was, they forced me to work My dream job instead Um Those jerks Forced me to do the thing I've been begging to do for 28 years You play a superhero, yeah And of course we've talked about it But Allison may not know

[01:39:17] Christopher Nolan's older brother was a con man Who was arrested And has been kept from his children for many years And this is a powerful emotional thread In a lot of his movies that I feel like nobody talks about Yes But you have your big confidence man thing

[01:39:31] And obviously this movie is about selling yourself Magicians, the ultimate confidence man They really are Anyway, is there any other prestige stuff Can we play the box office game already? Let me just go to the bathroom quickly It's just number one, number one

[01:39:45] David Julian did the score for this As he did for Memento and Insomnia And it's the last time they worked together Because then he becomes Zimmer I like the score in this movie I do too, I think David Julian does these nice little Synthi scores for him

[01:39:59] And then it's all Wong Um Trying to think, Lee Smith edited this Who's this guy now Who are you now Is there a third one? Yeah Are you the drunk actor? I don't know baby Oh it's such a good Hey don't vomit there I want Alright

[01:40:27] So this movie The one thing about the drunk actor Is that it's basically Hugh Jackman making fun of himself It is It is such a perfect way of like his kind of Hammy loaded thing Anyway go on You're totally right Alright He's doing a pretty good job Okay

[01:40:49] Okay box office game, what's going on Box office game, Allison To explain I just I'm looking at the week this movie opened I remember it was a week number one It opened at number one but a soft Number one And Griffin is gonna try and guess October 20th

[01:41:09] 2006 number one was the proceeds But it opens like 14 14.8 million Yeah it opened to 14.8 It grossed 53 109 Worldwide Yeah so Number two is A movie that's been out for three weeks And it's gonna make a lot of money It's like a big word of mouth hit It's a crime movie

[01:41:35] Because it'll give it away 2006 Had it been number one or has it just been Trucking around It's been out for three weeks It's a good question, had it ever been number one Yes it opened number one then it's number two Number two Number two And it eventually Makes 132

[01:41:57] And it wins some awards Oh is it departed It's too easy we already discussed it Yeah right right right Number three was the Movie I think a lot of people thought it was gonna win Best Picture Or at least challenge for Best Picture this year

[01:42:11] It's opening this week, it was a huge bomb Dream Girls No that opens like And that did really well People thought it was gonna It opens at 10 million third At the box office It's like by a legendary director It's about a very sort of classic Oscars Alexander? No

[01:42:31] Okay A legendary director classic Oscar theme Genre yeah It's a classic Oscar genre It had a sister movie the same year Oh oh oh well I gave it away what am I supposed to do The board into it's Freddy Alison what's the movie Oh god I don't know

[01:42:51] Flags of our fathers That was a big bomb I didn't know it was that big a bomb 33 million on a 90 million dollar budget And yet Letters from your Iwo Jima is a great movie It's weird What did Iwo Jima end up grossing? Like nothing like 10 million

[01:43:05] But it got Best Director and Best Picture And all those things Also no one will ever stop him from making movies People will just be like have money That was one of the coolest moves ever To be like I'm gonna make it

[01:43:17] I'm making an Iwo Jima movie and he's like You know what I'm gonna make another one I'm gonna make one about the Japanese side Of it and it'll be in Japanese And it's only gonna have Japanese actors And she's like For the list of girls

[01:43:31] David is putting money on the table Is skeptically counting out Money on the table Because they were like well you made a depressing boxing movie And one best picture grossed 100 million dollars Anything's possible It's a blank check follow Iwo Jima was viewed as the big heavy hitter

[01:43:47] And they came out with just a fart And they were like oh jeez Now they got that Japanese one And then that came out and everyone loved it Oh boy number four Oh what to say It's an animated movie It's about animals It's not Madagascar No Ice Age

[01:44:07] 2006 it's not Happy Feed Do not remember this movie exists I definitely remembered it He usually knows the like It's a Sony Columbia animated movie How did you know that Who are the stars? Deborah Massen plays the What is that even about?

[01:44:27] I just know the name of the movie What Studio made it Number five is The last and worst entry In the Allison Lohman age 30 Plays a teenager movie Genre Remember how Allison Lohman they kept being White only bright slight Matchdeck men uses that As part of its twist

[01:44:49] So those are the first two in your trilogy And then the third one in the Allison Lohman This is already a remake It's a post big Oh I know what it is It's Flicka What a weird week At that point she's still playing like 18

[01:45:05] And she had done Big Fish where she plays Like young Jessica Lange And there's like a mother and a wife And an adult And then she makes that Anna McGoyan movie where the truth lies It's like her trying to jump to being like

[01:45:19] Alright we're calling for a thing They can play like Martin and Lewis And they have a freeway with her Not with her They have a whanchard That movie's weird And then Allison Lohman stops making movies She married one of those two

[01:45:35] She was dragged me to hell as well That's her last one She married either Neville Dean or Taylor Who knew? I knew because I was like one of them Remember when they were the next They were two and then they split up It's never been the same

[01:45:51] Neville Dean She married Neville Dean and the only acting she's done Since Drag Me to Hell Is Bit Parts and Neville Dean movies Oh that's so sad The Vatican tapes and Officer Down She's a good actress I'd love to see her come back

[01:46:07] So it's really hot in here so we're going to wrap up But some other movies that The Grudge 2 The American Grudge 2 The year was a big club Is that the Robin Williams one? Which was sold as What if Robin Williams became president

[01:46:23] And that movie's actually a thriller about vote rigging It's a Barry Levinson movie It's a Barry Levinson movie and they sold it as It was like what if John Stuart was the president Because everyone was saying that at the time Like this guy should be in the office

[01:46:35] So the movie was sold as like Robin Williams Wearing the Powdered wig Making bits and whatever The movie is 50% Laura Linney An FBI agent who's investigating voter fraud And it turns out there was like That movie might actually be very relevant Mary Antoinette opened that week

[01:46:53] Relevant as the big guy Discrushing at the box office right now Which is actually kind of crazy It just crossed 200 million But you know the big guy Is short, it's watchable And it's gotten ending So you know what people probably walk out of it

[01:47:09] They're like I had a good time The poster that promises like sexiness Good marketing campaign They're getting away with some of the spring breakers Thing of being like look this movie's like Fucking shit up And then you're like no it's artsy

[01:47:23] Sophia Copeland doesn't know what a sexy thing is I mean I like her okay And I like the movie because it has All of the hashtag vengeful bitches Weird marketing It's some spring breakers shit I saw spring breakers in What studio is it Sony? I think it's focus

[01:47:41] But it feels like a very A24 campaign Yeah I saw spring breakers in Atlanta Georgia I was like filming something there And it was the weekend it went wide And I saw it in a theater with just Georgian teenagers And it was like incredible because it was just

[01:47:57] Everyone being like this is fucking stupid And that movie is definitely not Me just sitting with my arms crossed Just going The Marine And then you know It's a little bit weird I mean you know I've seen it before I think I love it You know that movie

[01:48:19] I'm sure that movie It was like The movie You know the movie Like, you know the movie It felt like a movie A lot more fun than The movie So he knows what he is and he's like good at using his sort of presence.

[01:48:39] That's the key to being a good movie star is awareness, you know? That's how you play. All right. So we're done. Allison, thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for being here. It's good. I've only sweat out half of my body weight. Perfect.

[01:48:51] People should follow you on Twitter. People should listen to Foamspotting SVU. Welcome BuzzFeed. You're welcome BuzzFeed. Read BuzzFeed. What else? What's that? Probably got. Yeah. Don't friend me on Facebook. I'm gonna leave in that hellhole behind. Oh, Jesus. Of course. Nice. Cool.

[01:49:09] It's literally just like my aunt at this point. Yeah. It's just a disaster all the time. Yeah. Yeah. What hot takes though? I don't know. I mean Facebook is good. My aunt's got some hot takes. You're not wrong. She's a hot taker. Yeah. Presti.

[01:49:22] So next week is Dark Knight probably? Correct. We're going to have the DCM show drop somewhere in there so maybe I can't remember. Let's say that. Publicize it on social media but I think it maybe will happen after that.

[01:49:35] We did an episode with Peter Serafinovich, my co-star on the TIC that was a flashback to our Star Wars days. It's talking mall. Talking mall. 45 minutes just talking about the process of playing Darth Maul's voice for four lines in a movie. Just great. Just a great episode.

[01:49:50] It's a great episode. Everyone's gonna love it. And then after that, yeah Dark Knight and then Inception and yeah we're trundling along. Yeah, we're trundling. We're definitely trundling. Shut up. All right. I'm done. I'm done. Wrap it up. Awesome. Thank you for being here. Please listen to this.

[01:50:05] Remember to rate, review, subscribe, go to our Reddit for some dorky shit. Big thanks to Andrew for Guto, for running our social media account. Joe Bowen and Patrick Reynolds for doing our artwork, playing Montgomery for the theme song. Yeah.

[01:50:18] And as always, David, I was three person people the whole time. You were three person the whole time? I was three person because there's me. Ben, you're hearing this? There's the twin brother and then the drunk. I don't know if you caught it because it was very subtle.

[01:50:33] Very subtle. Wait, oh, so that was like a bit. This is me right now. Okay. Uh-huh. Hi. This is me the twin brother. You might notice my face is five pounds heavier. Right. Yeah. And you have a septum piercing your punk. Correct. And then hello to me.

[01:50:48] All right. Are we going? You got your thing ready, your bullshit? Okay. You gotta give me one. Okay. What do we do? I'm thinking of Lidu Michael Kane with every good line in this movie. You have to say, was it good? Who am I? Square. Oh. Govna. Oh.

[01:51:13] I think it's well also I'll save this for the money. All right. Was it good? Well, hold on. It's going to be when I point to you. What's the, um, would that help? Was he good? What is she? She sounds like ridiculous.

[01:51:32] She's very high pitched in the mood. She's very breathy. Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. Do your thing. Jesus. Okay, alright. Talk already. I need someone to text. You're sending a text? I have to send one before we start. Fair enough. God, this movie didn't do that well.

[01:51:48] No, we'll talk about that. Wasn't there another magic movie? Yeah, there were three. We'll talk about it. Like save it. Save it. It was the year of magic. Okay, ready? He had a new trick today. Was it good? I fucked it up. What the fuck are you doing?

[01:52:05] Do Michael Cain? It's better because it's funny. Do Michael Cain? Yeah, do Michael Cain. It's way better than whatever this is. Okay, but if I'm doing it as long, that's the deal. No, that's fine. Okay. Michael Cain. No. Okay, ready? Michael Cain. Michael Cain.

[01:52:24] I mean, that's not the worst thing I've ever heard. Michael Cain. Yeah, you got it. Okay, ready? I'm ready.