The Sixth Sense with Katey Rich

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check to say you're too ex-best

[00:00:13] All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:01:04] This is Blank Check with Griffin and David and this is our new investigative miniseries

[00:01:11] Pod Night Shyamacast

[00:01:17] So, Katey, there was a face-off between me and Griffin's chosen titles and my title won

[00:01:22] What was the other option?

[00:01:24] The other option was P-Cast Shamblon

[00:01:28] I want to point out that I just put a vote out there

[00:01:32] I didn't make it clear which one was my choice

[00:01:34] We're going to start recording today

[00:01:36] We're asking the people of Twitter, the good people of Twitter, to let us know which we should call our miniseries

[00:01:40] And David quoted my tweet and said if you don't vote for Pod Night Shyamacast you're not my friend

[00:01:46] So David won

[00:01:48] I think it was also just a better title

[00:01:50] It sounds like a real threat

[00:01:52] He won the battle, lost the war

[00:01:54] You know what I'm saying? He has to go to sleep with himself at night knowing that he's strong-armed

[00:01:58] Sleep fine

[00:01:59] The Twitterati

[00:02:01] A very special guest today is Katey Rich

[00:02:03] A podcast luminary of Vanity Fair.com

[00:02:07] Bring in the class

[00:02:09] Hollywood Elite

[00:02:10] Host of Fighting in the War Room

[00:02:12] Which I've been listening to for God knows how many years now

[00:02:14] How long has that been going for now?

[00:02:15] Oh my God, five years

[00:02:16] Like we had our five-year anniversary, it's terrifying

[00:02:18] The best film podcast, in my opinion, is Fighting in the War Room

[00:02:22] And then the second best is this one

[00:02:24] And the Little Gold Men

[00:02:25] Also the host of Little Gold Men on the Panoply Network

[00:02:28] She's got two

[00:02:29] I got too many podcasts

[00:02:31] And she's now an official host of this podcast

[00:02:33] She's never leaving

[00:02:34] So now she has three podcasts

[00:02:35] She's here for good

[00:02:36] Yeah, and I feel like I should say I'm here because I started listening to this

[00:02:39] Over Thanksgiving and couldn't stop

[00:02:41] And I couldn't stop tweeting at you about it

[00:02:43] So thank you for letting me step into the screen

[00:02:46] What turned you on to us?

[00:02:48] What was the breakthrough moment?

[00:02:50] I was assigned to Watch the Prequels

[00:02:52] Because of Fighting in the War Room we were doing a Star Wars series

[00:02:54] So I was like, okay, I gotta watch the prequels

[00:02:56] And then I knew you guys were doing these

[00:02:58] And I hadn't seen the prequels in years

[00:03:00] Okay, now that I've seen the movies I'll listen to the podcast

[00:03:02] And we had these pop quizzes

[00:03:04] Where we picked which one you want to answer pop quiz questions about

[00:03:08] And I only nailed it

[00:03:09] She shouted us out

[00:03:10] Really?

[00:03:11] Oh yeah

[00:03:12] Well you listened to 10 episodes about one movie

[00:03:15] What was the toughest question you got right?

[00:03:18] Oh god, I think it was naming the planet

[00:03:21] Where Obi-Wan goes, the Rain Planet

[00:03:23] See now I can't remember

[00:03:24] I mean it

[00:03:25] See, thanks guys

[00:03:26] Rain Planet, Ben's favorite

[00:03:28] I didn't think you were ever going to talk about Star Wars in this movie

[00:03:30] We're never going to stop talking about Star Wars

[00:03:32] They pushed episode bait back to December

[00:03:34] I know

[00:03:35] I'm so pissed off about that

[00:03:36] Yeah, but Rogue One

[00:03:37] It's like right down the corner

[00:03:38] I know

[00:03:39] I'm like, it'd be a Christmas treat every year

[00:03:41] I'm having a little Star Wars under the tree

[00:03:43] I don't like the idea

[00:03:44] You know it's that thing where Harry Potter would occasionally have one come out in the summer

[00:03:47] And it would do way worse

[00:03:50] And then eventually they were like, okay we're just not going to do that anymore

[00:03:53] Yeah, well because if you can be the Christmas movie

[00:03:56] Corridor is like every single day for ten days between Christmas and New Year's

[00:04:00] Yeah

[00:04:01] Or between whatever it is, the 23rd and the 3rd

[00:04:03] Every day you make $50 million

[00:04:05] Because no one has anywhere to go

[00:04:07] Don't you all remember seeing Titanic repeatedly over your Christmas breaks in 1997?

[00:04:10] I do

[00:04:11] I didn't see Titanic until 2005 on a VHS

[00:04:15] That is a shame

[00:04:16] That's a bummer

[00:04:17] Yeah, you want to hear the real like

[00:04:18] You were pretty little for Titanic I would assume

[00:04:20] You were like 8, 7 or 8

[00:04:21] We were with movies when I was a kid

[00:04:22] I saw a lot but I would be sort of contrarian

[00:04:24] Not want to see the things that everyone else was seeing

[00:04:26] I just didn't see the Lion King until later

[00:04:28] I don't know

[00:04:29] But I saw like 2005

[00:04:31] You know what, no, I saw it full screen on like Cinemax

[00:04:34] And was like this movie sucked

[00:04:35] I don't know if you guys are talking about it

[00:04:36] The end shit's good

[00:04:37] And then I saw it like when they re-released it in 3D

[00:04:40] And I was like oh no this is the best movie of all time

[00:04:42] Yeah

[00:04:43] You and Katie were just cleaning it

[00:04:44] Oh yeah

[00:04:45] You have to see it in movie format

[00:04:46] No, you better watch it

[00:04:47] No, come on

[00:04:48] When we were in videology before Trivia

[00:04:50] And then we'll start on the, I promise that

[00:04:52] Yeah

[00:04:53] When we were in videology and my girlfriend was with us

[00:04:56] It was before Trivia and Titanic was playing

[00:04:58] My girlfriend's like a complete, she's never seen any movie

[00:05:01] It's completely insane

[00:05:02] And I was like you've never seen Titanic

[00:05:04] And she's like no

[00:05:05] And I was saying like one thing I think is really good about Titanic

[00:05:08] Is that it has a happy ending

[00:05:10] Even though it's about the Titanic sinking

[00:05:12] But it has this like fantasy sequence

[00:05:14] Where at the end where she's sort of marrying Leo

[00:05:17] And it's like her dying

[00:05:18] All the dead people are there

[00:05:19] And it's heavenly and everyone's there

[00:05:21] And then so we were watching

[00:05:22] Because we were watching the last half hour of the movie

[00:05:24] And then that scene came on

[00:05:25] And videology was loaded with people

[00:05:27] And they all started screaming

[00:05:29] Do you remember that?

[00:05:30] Yeah

[00:05:31] Because it's so good

[00:05:32] Because they're cheering

[00:05:33] Like they were happy

[00:05:34] Cheering and yelling and clapping

[00:05:35] Because it's so good

[00:05:36] And I was like that's why people kept seeing the movie

[00:05:38] Because the ending just leaves you on this

[00:05:40] Crazy sort of euphoric note

[00:05:42] I don't want to give credit

[00:05:44] Titanic is so good

[00:05:45] I don't want to give credit to the Lord Voldemort

[00:05:48] Of the movie blogger sphere

[00:05:50] But Jeffrey Wells has often said

[00:05:52] That that's the only reason that film won Best Picture

[00:05:54] And not as like a back end compliment

[00:05:56] Against the film

[00:05:57] But he was like that put it so over the edge

[00:05:59] Where you like wanted to live in that movie

[00:06:01] In that moment forever

[00:06:02] Because you know, you know

[00:06:03] It's such a transcendent

[00:06:04] It is not the best movie of 1997

[00:06:06] As much as I love it

[00:06:07] But it's maybe the best movie of all time

[00:06:09] No, exactly

[00:06:10] If that makes sense

[00:06:11] Like it's not the best movie of that year

[00:06:12] But it's maybe the best movie yesterday

[00:06:13] The craziest thing is

[00:06:14] I love Titanic so much

[00:06:15] But I still would have given LA Confidential

[00:06:17] Which I think is the greatest movie

[00:06:18] You gotta go with the zeitgeist

[00:06:19] When you get the opportunity to reward the zeitgeist

[00:06:21] In terms of Oscars, I agree

[00:06:22] But in terms of one best picture

[00:06:24] Like a personal favorite

[00:06:25] Yeah, sure, you could make your own personal favorite

[00:06:27] A buck's life

[00:06:28] I'm gonna start my own rival ten-part series

[00:06:30] About Titanic

[00:06:31] I would love to be on that

[00:06:32] Yes, please

[00:06:33] That's excellent

[00:06:34] Let's just do Titanic

[00:06:35] Like minute by minute

[00:06:36] That's what we should do

[00:06:37] That is literally

[00:06:38] I could recite it by math right?

[00:06:40] Yeah, we should do a live show

[00:06:42] Where we just do Titanic

[00:06:43] It's like the improvised Shakespeare Company

[00:06:45] Or whatever

[00:06:46] We just play all the parts

[00:06:47] James Cameron would be a fascinating blank check subject

[00:06:49] Oh, we're gonna do him one

[00:06:50] Because he got a blank check

[00:06:51] And then only went up and up and up

[00:06:52] He's the one

[00:06:53] So he just kept giving him bigger blank checks

[00:06:55] And he even like Ed McMahon one

[00:06:57] He keeps making more money

[00:06:58] He's like

[00:06:59] He is the reason that everyone else gets blank checks

[00:07:01] They're like, well, James Cameron did it

[00:07:02] And it works

[00:07:03] So okay, we'll give you a ton of money

[00:07:04] It never works

[00:07:05] That he is like the mogul of the blank check

[00:07:07] It's also the opposite of how it usually works

[00:07:09] Which is someone

[00:07:10] Everyone, like they give him the blank check

[00:07:11] And they're like this is gonna be huge

[00:07:12] And then disappoints

[00:07:13] But James Cameron

[00:07:14] Like six months before the movie comes out

[00:07:15] They're like this is the one that flops

[00:07:16] Yeah, right

[00:07:17] They always think it's gonna be a disaster

[00:07:19] That's why I'm so in on the Avatar sequels

[00:07:21] Because everyone is so ready to hate on them

[00:07:23] And I'm like let's do it

[00:07:24] I don't even want them

[00:07:25] And yet I will love them

[00:07:26] Because I love everything James Cameron did for me

[00:07:28] Yeah, because they're James Cameron's movies

[00:07:29] They're gonna be the best

[00:07:30] Oh man, this could bite us in the ass

[00:07:32] Yeah, okay, I have a big twist

[00:07:33] Whoa

[00:07:34] A big twist

[00:07:35] Whoa

[00:07:36] You guys know it

[00:07:37] But I wanna reveal it to the audience

[00:07:38] We have sitting with us at the table

[00:07:40] Oh shit

[00:07:41] Producer

[00:07:43] Ben Hosley, aka producer Ben

[00:07:45] aka producer Durer Ben

[00:07:46] aka the Ben Dooser

[00:07:47] aka the poet Laureate

[00:07:48] aka Hello Fennel

[00:07:49] aka the Peeper

[00:07:50] aka the tiebreaker

[00:07:51] aka birthday Benny

[00:07:52] aka Mr. Positive

[00:07:53] aka The Haas

[00:07:54] aka

[00:07:56] Oh you OBE

[00:07:57] Producer Ben Kenobi

[00:07:59] aka Kylo Ben

[00:08:01] Kylo Ben, right

[00:08:02] I can't believe you're doing that from memory

[00:08:03] Yeah, we should write those down

[00:08:05] We always miss one

[00:08:06] Katie is like taking a drink of water as you do that

[00:08:08] Yeah, she's exhausted

[00:08:09] Yeah

[00:08:10] And that speech

[00:08:11] But okay, so this is

[00:08:12] also to a pod night show I am a cast

[00:08:14] The studio has been restructured

[00:08:15] I know this is the plot thread that our listeners are really

[00:08:17] hanging on to

[00:08:18] Oh yeah, they love to hear that

[00:08:19] But our studio's been restructured

[00:08:20] The room next to it is now where the ones in zeroes are

[00:08:22] Yeah

[00:08:23] And then this is now a more spacious little closet

[00:08:25] to press the record in

[00:08:26] Two weeks ago you set the levels

[00:08:28] You sat down at the table with us here

[00:08:30] for the podcast Reawakens

[00:08:32] Right

[00:08:33] Last week you were in the other room

[00:08:34] where we couldn't see you

[00:08:35] The voice of God

[00:08:36] The voice of God, it freaked me out

[00:08:38] I referenced it way too much

[00:08:39] because I couldn't get over

[00:08:40] Yeah, you talked about it a lot

[00:08:41] Last week you have

[00:08:42] An intern

[00:08:43] Yes, we have Brian joining us

[00:08:45] as a work study

[00:08:47] here at the podcast

[00:08:49] with UCB

[00:08:51] Is he getting credit?

[00:08:52] Thank you, Brian

[00:08:53] Yeah, thank you, Brian

[00:08:54] I'm gonna cut this out

[00:08:55] Is he getting like school credit for this?

[00:08:57] He is

[00:08:58] He is, wow

[00:08:59] And he's also getting a credit from us

[00:09:01] the podcast

[00:09:02] It's called improv

[00:09:03] I always think of

[00:09:04] Much credit to Brian

[00:09:05] The topless girl in the life of aquatic

[00:09:07] That's what I always think of now

[00:09:09] when it's like the intern

[00:09:10] Brian is shirtless

[00:09:11] We should mention that

[00:09:12] Yeah, of course

[00:09:13] That's a requirement

[00:09:14] That's more practical than anything

[00:09:16] I did at an internship

[00:09:17] or got school credit for

[00:09:18] 100%

[00:09:19] That's a skill, podcast for the future

[00:09:20] Absolutely

[00:09:21] And you're working under this guy

[00:09:22] Yeah

[00:09:23] That's where the money's going

[00:09:24] Everything you need to know

[00:09:25] You gotta learn a lot of stuff

[00:09:26] For the listener at home

[00:09:27] when Ben says this guy

[00:09:28] he's pointing a thumb at his truck

[00:09:29] So guys

[00:09:31] we're here to discuss

[00:09:33] a film by M. Night Shyamalan

[00:09:34] Yes

[00:09:35] Oh, and I got gripes guys

[00:09:36] as I'm telling you right now

[00:09:37] Wow

[00:09:38] Got some gripes

[00:09:39] No, some of them are down

[00:09:40] You're starting kind of early

[00:09:41] You know there's many worse movies to come

[00:09:43] Yeah, this is not the movie

[00:09:44] to have gripes about

[00:09:45] gripes

[00:09:46] For better or worse

[00:09:47] this is the M. Night Shyamalan

[00:09:49] This is the film that will

[00:09:50] define his career for the rest of time

[00:09:51] Yeah

[00:09:52] You know he can make

[00:09:53] 80 more movies

[00:09:54] This will be the film

[00:09:55] And just to re-contexturize

[00:09:56] a little bit

[00:09:57] So last week was a weird episode

[00:09:58] because we talked about these

[00:09:59] two movies that most people

[00:10:00] don't even know

[00:10:01] And we'll never see

[00:10:02] Right, we'll never see

[00:10:03] Even though we made a podcast

[00:10:04] about it

[00:10:05] no one's gonna watch

[00:10:06] it on YouTube

[00:10:07] Do not need to watch them

[00:10:08] Okay

[00:10:09] I wasn't tempted

[00:10:10] I just want to let everyone know

[00:10:11] it's okay

[00:10:12] But they, there, you know

[00:10:15] two films that have some similarities

[00:10:17] a lot of differences

[00:10:18] and are a guy who just has

[00:10:19] a technical craft, you know

[00:10:21] Yeah

[00:10:22] And a sort of mathematical

[00:10:24] assessment of how to get emotions out of the audience

[00:10:26] You can set up a shot

[00:10:27] Right, but those two films

[00:10:28] are very emotionally manipulative

[00:10:29] in a way that feels

[00:10:30] a little too over enforceable

[00:10:32] Even if it works

[00:10:33] you're like, I see what you're doing then

[00:10:35] They're crappy Spielberg poops

[00:10:37] Right

[00:10:38] And now he takes this shift

[00:10:39] into the thriller

[00:10:40] and we said last week

[00:10:41] he, you know, was unhappy

[00:10:42] with how Wide Awake was handled

[00:10:43] by Weinstein

[00:10:44] both on set

[00:10:45] in the editing room

[00:10:46] and in its release

[00:10:47] I said both but it was three things

[00:10:49] So then he like

[00:10:51] called his shot Babe Ruth style

[00:10:52] You like that sports reference?

[00:10:53] Yeah

[00:10:54] A great sports reference

[00:10:55] A great sports ball reference

[00:10:56] He was like

[00:10:58] I'm gonna write a screenplay

[00:10:59] that's so good

[00:11:00] that I'll be able to sell it

[00:11:01] for over a million dollars

[00:11:03] and have like final cut

[00:11:05] He sold it for three million dollars

[00:11:07] What?

[00:11:08] Yeah

[00:11:09] The 90s were crazy

[00:11:10] With the stipulation that he had to direct

[00:11:11] That's insane

[00:11:12] And then he had control

[00:11:13] He was like, I'm calling my shot

[00:11:14] I'm gonna write a spec script

[00:11:15] that's so undeniably great

[00:11:16] they'll give me three million dollars

[00:11:18] and they'll let me make it the way I am

[00:11:19] And so he ships this around town

[00:11:21] brings suspected Disney in

[00:11:22] Fox and wherever

[00:11:23] And I think people go ballistic

[00:11:24] immediately

[00:11:25] Wow

[00:11:26] Oh and the guy who bought

[00:11:27] that script got fired

[00:11:28] by Disney

[00:11:29] Crazy

[00:11:30] Right away

[00:11:31] We're paying three million dollars

[00:11:32] What are you doing?

[00:11:33] Well I think this was released

[00:11:34] not released but the shingle

[00:11:36] it fell under were spyglass pictures

[00:11:38] which like this was one of the last things

[00:11:39] that spyglass pictures made

[00:11:41] Well, cause Disney

[00:11:42] I mean you may have this on your printout

[00:11:43] Disney had like four

[00:11:44] No, Disney released the rights

[00:11:46] to this picture to spyglass

[00:11:47] because they were like so uninterested in it

[00:11:49] Really?

[00:11:50] Yeah

[00:11:51] After they had made it

[00:11:52] After they made it

[00:11:53] They retained distribution rights

[00:11:54] 12.5% of the box office

[00:11:56] but most of it went to spyglass

[00:11:58] And 12.5% of the box office

[00:12:01] was made by

[00:12:02] I think this film made

[00:12:03] I believe 300 million dollars

[00:12:05] It made

[00:12:06] Yeah

[00:12:07] And it made about 700 million

[00:12:08] worldwide

[00:12:09] That's mad

[00:12:10] This is 1999

[00:12:11] And it opened to about 25 million

[00:12:13] and then it just made

[00:12:14] 2020, 2020, for week after week

[00:12:15] after week

[00:12:16] And opened in early August

[00:12:17] Right?

[00:12:18] Yes

[00:12:19] And I remember very distinctly

[00:12:20] August 6th

[00:12:21] This was when like August

[00:12:22] was very much a no man

[00:12:23] 1999

[00:12:24] Like you didn't release movies

[00:12:25] in August

[00:12:26] If it was August it was a dump

[00:12:27] And the one weekend

[00:12:28] you could get through

[00:12:29] But it's still kind of true

[00:12:30] August 6th, that first week

[00:12:31] and that's the Guardians of the Galaxy slot

[00:12:32] That's the health slot

[00:12:33] Right

[00:12:34] It's like one

[00:12:35] It's encroaching now

[00:12:36] And that's the thing

[00:12:37] If you can get something good

[00:12:38] August 6th

[00:12:39] You maybe play for the rest of the month

[00:12:40] You get four weeks of number one

[00:12:42] And you get like sleeper

[00:12:43] Yeah, the Tropic Thunder

[00:12:44] Kind of

[00:12:45] Yeah

[00:12:46] But you have to be good

[00:12:47] You have to be the first week of August

[00:12:48] And then you get the doldrums

[00:12:49] Maybe even through to September

[00:12:50] You're owning that

[00:12:51] Through Labor Day

[00:12:52] Now I remember

[00:12:53] I might be off on one of these

[00:12:54] But I know at least two of these three

[00:12:56] I'm certain about

[00:12:58] This was the weekend where like

[00:12:59] Four movies were trying to be

[00:13:01] The breakout August film

[00:13:02] You want to see the first week

[00:13:04] Yes

[00:13:05] Yeah, you want to hear about the first week

[00:13:06] I believe the four major studio releases

[00:13:08] Of that film

[00:13:09] Films of that weekend were

[00:13:12] The Sixth Sense

[00:13:14] Mystery Men

[00:13:15] Mystery Men had come out last week

[00:13:18] The previous week

[00:13:19] Interesting

[00:13:20] Okay

[00:13:21] The Iron Giant came out that weekend

[00:13:22] Correct

[00:13:23] The Iron Giant

[00:13:24] Had also come out a week before

[00:13:26] Are you sure you're on the first weekend

[00:13:27] Of Sixth Sense?

[00:13:28] Sometimes Box Office Mojo

[00:13:29] If you click on the first weekend

[00:13:30] Oh no, holy shit

[00:13:31] Sorry

[00:13:32] Sorry

[00:13:33] Go ahead

[00:13:34] Mystery Men, Iron Giant, Sixth Sense and Dick

[00:13:37] You're missing one

[00:13:38] A film that I watched on stars the other day

[00:13:40] And holds up

[00:13:41] The Thomas Crown Affair

[00:13:42] Oh shit

[00:13:43] So that's like five big movies

[00:13:45] That we're all hoping they could be

[00:13:46] The breakout August film

[00:13:47] Wait, so where does the Blair Witch project

[00:13:49] The Blair Witch project has already been out

[00:13:51] For four weeks

[00:13:52] And has already made 80 million dollars

[00:13:53] And it's really funny

[00:13:54] Because the budget

[00:13:55] You know Box Office Mojo

[00:13:56] Has the budget as like a, you know, 40, 60

[00:13:58] And the Blair Witch project is 0.06

[00:14:01] But anyway

[00:14:03] So yeah

[00:14:04] Blair Witch is like the summer

[00:14:06] Talk of the summer

[00:14:07] That's the crazy thing

[00:14:08] The two like most definitive horror movies

[00:14:10] Of Hollywood's last 20 years

[00:14:11] Came out in like the same month basically

[00:14:13] And couldn't be more sort of diametrically opposed

[00:14:16] Absolutely

[00:14:17] And represents like the last horror film

[00:14:19] Of its kind made by Hollywood Studio

[00:14:21] In a way

[00:14:22] And the other one becomes like the future

[00:14:24] Slowly but surely becomes like everything

[00:14:26] No, but like yeah

[00:14:27] The movies that just run away bright

[00:14:28] Is hanging around

[00:14:29] You've got Deep Blue Sea is hanging around

[00:14:31] Phantom Astle in the top ten?

[00:14:33] Phantom Astle just fell out of the top ten

[00:14:35] It's number eleven

[00:14:36] Wow

[00:14:37] You've got American Pie

[00:14:38] You've got the haunting

[00:14:39] Remember with

[00:14:40] Catherine Zeta-Jones and Liam Neeson

[00:14:42] What's Inspector Gadget up to

[00:14:44] At this point 97

[00:14:45] Inspector Gadget's is in his third week

[00:14:46] And it's made 64 million dollars

[00:14:48] I saw that movie in theater

[00:14:49] The Matrix is done by that

[00:14:50] The Matrix is

[00:14:52] Way down

[00:14:53] Yep

[00:14:54] Cause that was in April

[00:14:55] It's been out for twenty weeks

[00:14:56] And has made 170 million dollars

[00:14:57] I saw like all of these in theaters

[00:14:59] Are you kidding me

[00:15:00] I didn't see the sixth sense though

[00:15:01] I don't know why

[00:15:02] I saw it much later

[00:15:03] Were you just uneven on horror movies

[00:15:05] Or do you see Blair Witch

[00:15:07] I saw Blair Witch

[00:15:08] I don't know

[00:15:09] I was seeing a bunch of stuff

[00:15:10] I don't know why

[00:15:11] I was in my big entertainment weekly reading phase

[00:15:12] But I think I got squirt on the twist early

[00:15:14] Which we'll talk about

[00:15:15] Sure

[00:15:16] That's important

[00:15:17] Yeah, I didn't see sixth sense in theaters

[00:15:18] But I saw it run away

[00:15:19] Brighton theaters for sure

[00:15:20] Me too

[00:15:21] But what about Notting Hill

[00:15:22] That was earlier in the summer

[00:15:23] Notting Hill has been out for twelve weeks

[00:15:25] Huge, Julius summer

[00:15:26] Yeah, Notting Hill was in May

[00:15:27] Huge, Julius summer

[00:15:28] I feel like Notting Hill came out against

[00:15:29] Weekend two of Phantom Menace

[00:15:31] We should talk

[00:15:32] In 1999 it's like

[00:15:33] I think now officially considered

[00:15:35] The best year Hollywood has had

[00:15:37] For studio product

[00:15:38] Yeah

[00:15:39] What's crazy is it's both considered

[00:15:40] A banner year for legitimate film

[00:15:43] And a banner year for blockbusters

[00:15:45] It was like both

[00:15:46] It was everything in one year

[00:15:48] Here are some other movies

[00:15:49] That are just sort of down on the list

[00:15:51] You know Eyes Wide Shut

[00:15:52] Right

[00:15:53] Which is the best movie of my life

[00:15:54] Sorry guys

[00:15:55] A Toy Story 2

[00:15:56] No

[00:15:57] Awesome Powers 2

[00:15:58] Wild Wild West

[00:15:59] Obviously terrible

[00:16:00] I'm just sort of telling you

[00:16:01] The Mummy

[00:16:02] It's a huge movie

[00:16:03] The Mummy which is so much fun

[00:16:04] Yeah

[00:16:05] A Thrill

[00:16:06] A Thrill's in shows

[00:16:07] Run Lola Run

[00:16:08] The Red Violin

[00:16:10] Now I'm just

[00:16:11] Yeah, Red Violin

[00:16:12] T with Mussolini

[00:16:13] Yo T with Mussolini

[00:16:14] Charles Day is directed

[00:16:15] Life

[00:16:16] That movie with Eddie Murphy

[00:16:17] And Martin Lawrence about prison

[00:16:19] That movie's a huge

[00:16:21] Wait is Bo-Finger that's number?

[00:16:22] Bo-Finger comes out the second week

[00:16:24] Of the sixth sense

[00:16:25] It comes out next week

[00:16:26] Wow

[00:16:27] Yeah, that's the thing

[00:16:28] The next weekend has Bo-Finger

[00:16:30] It has

[00:16:32] Detroit Rock City

[00:16:33] Sure

[00:16:35] So the sixth sense is number one

[00:16:36] For five weeks in a row

[00:16:37] I just remember that opening weekend

[00:16:38] Everyone was like

[00:16:39] Oh man it could be any one of these

[00:16:40] Five films

[00:16:41] But like sixth sense was maybe

[00:16:42] On the lower end of expectation

[00:16:44] It opened to 26 million

[00:16:46] Like very nice opening for 19 million

[00:16:48] But I remember that being a surprise

[00:16:50] Yeah, oh yeah

[00:16:51] Like Bruce Willis was coming out of

[00:16:52] A fallow period

[00:16:53] Serious fallow period

[00:16:54] So he had like got a bump up

[00:16:55] A couple years earlier from

[00:16:57] Pulp Fiction

[00:16:59] Five years earlier

[00:17:01] The films he made in between

[00:17:02] Weren't that big and it was lost

[00:17:03] Up for its life

[00:17:04] Well he had die hard with a venture

[00:17:05] And Armageddon was the summer before

[00:17:07] That's right

[00:17:08] So Armageddon had already

[00:17:09] Rebooted him

[00:17:10] Okay, so Armageddon

[00:17:11] When they shot this he had it

[00:17:13] That was the big thing

[00:17:14] Which is amazing

[00:17:15] He's actually a huge money maker

[00:17:16] When did the kid come?

[00:17:17] Was that after six months?

[00:17:18] The year after the kid

[00:17:19] That was the post

[00:17:20] Like oh I guess he's good with kids

[00:17:21] Let's keep pairing him up with kids

[00:17:23] That movie was a big deal then

[00:17:25] Because it was like Bruce Willis and another kid

[00:17:27] And it has, it's called Disney's the kid

[00:17:29] Like it's one of those things where

[00:17:30] Disney was like we're putting

[00:17:31] Our name on this

[00:17:32] This is gonna be big

[00:17:33] Well you know the number one reason

[00:17:34] That happened was

[00:17:35] They made the film

[00:17:37] And then whoever retained the rights

[00:17:39] To Charlie Chaplin's the kid was like

[00:17:41] Oh we actually own the rights to the kids

[00:17:42] Oh so they had to call Disney

[00:17:43] This is like a lead-aid

[00:17:44] It was the Butler situation

[00:17:45] Yeah it was

[00:17:46] Well he also you know around then

[00:17:47] He makes the story of us with Michelle Pfeiffer

[00:17:49] Right

[00:17:50] He makes breakfast of champions

[00:17:51] Which is like a legendary disaster

[00:17:53] That comes out very shortly after

[00:17:55] Very shortly after

[00:17:56] It disappeared, it makes no money

[00:17:57] Right

[00:17:58] And then you know obviously after that

[00:17:59] The whole nine yards

[00:18:00] Which was a big hit

[00:18:01] Yeah

[00:18:02] You've got

[00:18:03] Unbreakable

[00:18:04] Unbreakable and bandits

[00:18:05] Yeah

[00:18:06] And then he goes right back into his

[00:18:07] Like dead period where it's like

[00:18:09] Hearts war

[00:18:10] Tears of the sun

[00:18:11] Hostage

[00:18:12] You know these movies that nobody

[00:18:13] Such a weird career

[00:18:14] He's got the worst

[00:18:16] He's still hanging in there though

[00:18:17] You know

[00:18:18] Oh when he's good he's great

[00:18:19] Yeah

[00:18:20] Cause he had that one fucking year

[00:18:21] Where he came back and it was like

[00:18:22] Oh do you want Looper and Moonrise Kingdom

[00:18:24] Within four months?

[00:18:25] Totally

[00:18:26] And then also I'm gonna host

[00:18:27] Saturday Night Live

[00:18:28] And seem engaged and be really funny

[00:18:29] It's like

[00:18:30] Yeah Bruce thank you

[00:18:31] Welcome back

[00:18:32] We made a pot roast for you

[00:18:33] And then

[00:18:34] And then he made Die Hard

[00:18:35] Good day to die hard

[00:18:37] And he made Red 2

[00:18:39] Cop out

[00:18:40] No cop out was before that

[00:18:41] Oh cop out I saw in theaters

[00:18:43] Cop out

[00:18:44] That was a really outrageous

[00:18:45] That's his ass

[00:18:46] Yeah and he's awful

[00:18:47] He is actively not awake in that movie

[00:18:50] Like I think someone is behind him

[00:18:51] Like just jerking his arms around and stuff

[00:18:53] He's kind of fun in red though

[00:18:54] Right at the first red

[00:18:55] Yeah

[00:18:56] I didn't see Red 2

[00:18:57] I did not see Red 2

[00:18:58] I'll admit

[00:18:59] Okay so this is what I remember

[00:19:00] About the 6th Sense coming out

[00:19:01] We're such box office nerds

[00:19:03] And Oscar nerds

[00:19:04] And in his tennis room

[00:19:05] This is the thing we could do this all day

[00:19:07] Yeah the top weekend in 1999

[00:19:09] Like God it's all we want to hear

[00:19:11] Talk about

[00:19:12] Okay do you want to come up

[00:19:13] We're gonna we should do an Oscar episode right

[00:19:15] Oh yeah we need to do an Oscar episode

[00:19:16] She does so much Oscar stuff

[00:19:17] Right

[00:19:18] What's the blank check Oscar

[00:19:19] I mean

[00:19:20] It'll be the blank check awards

[00:19:21] We pick our awards

[00:19:22] Oh the blankies

[00:19:23] I think we do the blankies

[00:19:24] By the way our fans are called blankies

[00:19:25] Okay yeah

[00:19:26] No I think I heard that

[00:19:27] But we do the blank checks

[00:19:28] Okay the blankies

[00:19:29] I think we'll do like Oscar weekend

[00:19:30] We'll release an episode where we do our picks

[00:19:32] Uh that sounds fun

[00:19:34] Right that'd be fun

[00:19:35] We should totally do that

[00:19:36] Yeah we should do that

[00:19:37] But wait I just wanted to

[00:19:38] Alright so let me just tell you guys

[00:19:39] 99s is so crazy

[00:19:40] The 6th Sense weekend

[00:19:41] It opens to 26 million

[00:19:42] The next weekend makes 25.7 million

[00:19:45] That's bananas

[00:19:46] Isn't that nuts

[00:19:47] The next weekend it makes 23.9 million

[00:19:49] Geez

[00:19:50] The weekend after that it makes 20 million

[00:19:51] And the weekend after that which is Labor Day weekend

[00:19:53] It makes 29 million

[00:19:54] Jesus Christ

[00:19:55] So it's five weeks in a row number one

[00:19:57] And then it goes like 16, you know 11, 8, 7

[00:20:01] So what's it up to

[00:20:02] It drops like 20% every week

[00:20:03] What's the total after week five

[00:20:04] After Labor Day weekend

[00:20:05] The total after Labor Day weekend

[00:20:07] Is 176 million

[00:20:09] Which today adjusted for inflation would be like 300 million

[00:20:12] And what did you say the budget was

[00:20:14] Budget 40 million

[00:20:15] That's actually kind of expensive

[00:20:17] Kind of high

[00:20:18] For a movie that's actually pretty like low on the sort of like big set pieces

[00:20:23] But it looks really good

[00:20:24] It looks very expensive

[00:20:25] So I think this is the first thing we should say

[00:20:27] This is an incredible looking movie

[00:20:28] And every, it's beautifully composed

[00:20:30] Yeah

[00:20:31] And it's crazy

[00:20:32] I'm not saying Wide Awake doesn't look terrible

[00:20:34] Yeah

[00:20:35] But it is crazy to watch Wide Awake

[00:20:36] And then to see this movie and think like

[00:20:37] How do, where did this come from

[00:20:38] It's crazy that this is his third film

[00:20:40] Like in a weird way

[00:20:41] Opening sequence with the reflection in the

[00:20:43] In the freakin plaque that he got

[00:20:45] How the fuck did Tak Fuji Moto shoot this

[00:20:47] Who was Jonathan Demi's guy

[00:20:49] And is like a king, a master, right

[00:20:52] But also it's like

[00:20:54] In a way if this was his first film

[00:20:56] Which a lot of people think it is erroneously

[00:20:58] Yeah, I keep thinking

[00:20:59] I actually keep thinking Unbreakable Came Before This

[00:21:01] Which is also wrong

[00:21:02] Fascinating

[00:21:03] I know

[00:21:04] If this was his first film

[00:21:05] It would almost make more sense than it being his third film

[00:21:08] Do you know what I'm saying

[00:21:09] Yeah, sure

[00:21:10] Because then you're like, whoa, here's this guy

[00:21:11] Like he came out fully formed

[00:21:12] He's Orson Welles

[00:21:13] Or if it was his 10th movie

[00:21:15] And it's like, oh, you see the slow build

[00:21:17] Well, Forson Welles had been making movies in the 90s

[00:21:19] He probably would have had some shitty NYU student film

[00:21:21] Yeah

[00:21:22] Like

[00:21:23] 100%

[00:21:24] I haven't seen it

[00:21:25] I don't know if it's shitty

[00:21:26] But then he has like a mediocre

[00:21:28] Although deeply profound to me as an eight-year-old

[00:21:30] Mirror Max like dramedy

[00:21:33] Griffin was the one person who liked Wide Awake

[00:21:35] When it came out

[00:21:36] It spoke to me, I saw it in theaters

[00:21:38] David for the listener

[00:21:40] He put his hand on his shoulder

[00:21:42] Sometimes Ben's next to me and I just put my

[00:21:43] He's a great guy

[00:21:44] He's such a great guy

[00:21:47] But yeah, there's such a humongous leap

[00:21:50] Between like

[00:21:51] Wide Awake and Praying With Anger

[00:21:54] Have the same strengths and the same weaknesses

[00:21:56] And then success all of a sudden

[00:21:58] Very few strengths and lots of weaknesses

[00:21:59] All of a sudden he's just like

[00:22:00] Totally clicking

[00:22:01] And it's not just like

[00:22:03] Okay, he's got a great cinematographer

[00:22:04] You know, he has a bigger budget

[00:22:05] He wrote such a good script

[00:22:07] And he's got great actors that the studio

[00:22:08] Clearly gave him time to get it right

[00:22:10] It feels like they gave him space

[00:22:12] To get it right

[00:22:13] Yeah, I bet they shot this movie for like

[00:22:14] 20 weeks or something crazy

[00:22:16] It feels very immaculate, you know

[00:22:18] It feels like a sort of

[00:22:19] He's got a lot of control over

[00:22:21] Every image, the rhythms, every cut

[00:22:24] And I think part of that's because

[00:22:26] Of how deliberately it needs to be constructed

[00:22:28] In order for the twist to pay off

[00:22:29] And then to work the second time

[00:22:31] It feels like they really

[00:22:32] When you know the twist

[00:22:33] Certainly the movie certainly has this

[00:22:34] Like calibration to every scene

[00:22:36] Where it's like everything needs to

[00:22:37] Line up with what's gonna happen

[00:22:39] Yeah, yeah

[00:22:40] So I feel like the 40 million

[00:22:41] Because if I remember correctly

[00:22:42] When this film

[00:22:44] I think Bruce Willis had pulled out

[00:22:46] Of another touchstone film

[00:22:48] And he owed them one

[00:22:50] Okay, sure

[00:22:51] I think there was a factor into this

[00:22:53] Where Bruce Willis maybe got paid less

[00:22:54] Than he usually did

[00:22:56] Because it was sort of a contractual

[00:22:58] Obligation based on another thing

[00:23:00] That had gone wrong

[00:23:01] According to this piece of paper

[00:23:03] That it's here, he earned 10 million

[00:23:04] For the sixth sense

[00:23:05] So he was a quarter of the budget

[00:23:07] But yes, he had backed out of another

[00:23:08] Disney project and he saw

[00:23:09] He signed a three-picture deal with them

[00:23:10] To make up for it

[00:23:11] Which led to Armageddon

[00:23:12] The sixth sense and the kid

[00:23:14] Disney's the kid

[00:23:15] Disney's the kid

[00:23:16] Disney's the kid

[00:23:17] 10 million is not bad

[00:23:19] But I bet his quote was higher

[00:23:20] I'm willing to believe

[00:23:21] Oh yeah

[00:23:22] Yeah, he was probably coming close

[00:23:23] To 20 at that point

[00:23:24] Yeah, especially

[00:23:25] And that's back when the

[00:23:26] 20 million dollar actor

[00:23:27] Remember who was like

[00:23:28] Oh, there's the eight

[00:23:29] 20 million dollar actors, you know

[00:23:31] And there's fewer now

[00:23:32] Oh, total

[00:23:33] Yeah, but there was a weird

[00:23:34] 20 million dollar boom

[00:23:36] Where Jim Carrey was the first

[00:23:37] With the cable guy

[00:23:38] Everyone lost their mind about that

[00:23:40] Everyone started getting 20

[00:23:41] They started handing out 20 to Annie

[00:23:43] Chris Tucker got 20 million

[00:23:44] For rush hour two

[00:23:46] Deservedly

[00:23:47] But there's also his fourth movie

[00:23:48] Have you ever heard the Soderbergh

[00:23:49] Story about Julia Roberts?

[00:23:51] No

[00:23:52] So she got 20 for maybe

[00:23:53] Notting Hill

[00:23:54] Some picture around 99-2000

[00:23:56] I don't know if you get which one it was

[00:23:57] Yeah

[00:23:58] And

[00:23:59] I think it would have been

[00:24:00] After my best friend's way

[00:24:01] That was her comeback

[00:24:02] I think Notting Hill and Runaway Bride

[00:24:03] She maybe got 20 each

[00:24:04] Might have been Runaway Bride

[00:24:05] Anyway, so she got 20 million

[00:24:06] And I guess that was well known

[00:24:08] And he wanted her for Ocean's 11

[00:24:09] So he sent her an envelope

[00:24:10] With a $20 bill in it

[00:24:12] And with a note saying

[00:24:13] Like I want you for Ocean's 11

[00:24:14] Or here you got 20 a picture now

[00:24:16] What a guy

[00:24:17] What a fucking guy

[00:24:18] What a fucking guy

[00:24:19] That worked

[00:24:20] And it worked

[00:24:23] And

[00:24:24] He had already gotten her

[00:24:25] An Oscar at that point, right?

[00:24:27] Well

[00:24:28] Maybe not before he shot Ocean's 11

[00:24:30] Not sure

[00:24:31] Because it's the year after

[00:24:32] Soderbergh made Aaron Brockovich

[00:24:34] Then traffic then Ocean's 11

[00:24:35] In a two-year period

[00:24:37] So Aaron Brockovich comes out

[00:24:38] March of 2000

[00:24:40] And then Ocean's 11 comes out

[00:24:41] November 2001

[00:24:42] So they might have been right

[00:24:43] Yeah

[00:24:44] December 2000

[00:24:45] They knew each other by then

[00:24:46] So he'd shot Aaron Brockovich

[00:24:48] Which he probably had won

[00:24:49] At the point that they started shooting

[00:24:50] But I mean

[00:24:51] Yeah

[00:24:52] That was in the bag

[00:24:53] Talk about an Oscar when that was in the bag

[00:24:54] Oh man

[00:24:55] She can't let that orchestra cut her off

[00:24:57] Oh boy

[00:24:58] Shut up that stick man

[00:24:59] I remember at my

[00:25:01] Whatever Oscar party I went to

[00:25:02] With my parents

[00:25:04] Whatever

[00:25:05] When I was like six

[00:25:06] Or seven

[00:25:07] Whatever year the English patient came out

[00:25:09] 98

[00:25:10] I had not seen it

[00:25:11] No, English patient was 96

[00:25:12] You're totally right

[00:25:13] What's the matter with me?

[00:25:14] It was before Titanic

[00:25:15] Yeah, because Titanic's 97

[00:25:16] What's 98?

[00:25:17] Shakespearean love is 98

[00:25:18] Shakespearean love

[00:25:19] So much better than the English patient

[00:25:20] Okay, so 96

[00:25:21] The 97 awards

[00:25:22] We're gonna talk about

[00:25:23] 96 cents Ben, I promise

[00:25:24] Ben, I

[00:25:25] He printed out all this information for us

[00:25:27] Ben has printed out four

[00:25:29] Three pages

[00:25:30] With 17 bullet points

[00:25:33] I got it from Menzel Floss

[00:25:34] I just wanted to be a good producer

[00:25:36] And try that, you know

[00:25:37] Yeah, I didn't give you a credit

[00:25:38] When I read out the stats earlier

[00:25:39] But he highlighted the ones that he thinks

[00:25:40] Are most important

[00:25:41] 97 Academy Awards

[00:25:44] I go to a party with my parents

[00:25:46] And their friends

[00:25:47] And everyone's like putting in money

[00:25:48] And I was like what's this

[00:25:49] It's like oh if you guess the most correct winners

[00:25:50] You win the pot

[00:25:51] Yeah

[00:25:52] And they're like oh I'll do this

[00:25:53] And they're like but Griffin

[00:25:54] You haven't seen any of the movies

[00:25:55] Other than I don't know

[00:25:56] Flubber was nominated

[00:25:57] Whatever

[00:25:58] Oh babe, was Babe the same year?

[00:25:59] No, babe's the same year before

[00:26:00] 95, you're right

[00:26:01] I don't know what I had seen if anything

[00:26:03] But I just know I was like

[00:26:05] Yeah, you meant for it

[00:26:06] We're gonna keep on talking about

[00:26:07] The English patient

[00:26:08] So I picked the English patient

[00:26:09] In every single category

[00:26:10] I believe it was like eight or nine Oscars

[00:26:12] And I came in second place

[00:26:13] For the night

[00:26:14] I was the only one who had Benoche

[00:26:16] Because everyone else assumed

[00:26:17] It was going to Bacall

[00:26:18] And I was just like

[00:26:19] Lady from the English patient

[00:26:21] Boom

[00:26:22] So then they were like this is the kid

[00:26:24] And so like every year after

[00:26:25] When I came to the party

[00:26:26] They were like this is Disney's the kid

[00:26:28] It's called improv

[00:26:29] When I came to the party

[00:26:30] They were like this kid

[00:26:31] He picks wild

[00:26:32] He's gonna win

[00:26:33] So I came in the next year

[00:26:34] And I was like eight

[00:26:35] And they were like kid

[00:26:36] What you got

[00:26:37] And I was like full Monty

[00:26:38] And I picked full Monty

[00:26:39] You go full Titanic

[00:26:40] Come on

[00:26:41] You could have repeated the same strategy

[00:26:42] And watched it

[00:26:43] I picked Titanic in every other category

[00:26:44] And picked full Monty for best picture

[00:26:46] And they were like

[00:26:47] What are you talking about

[00:26:48] Titanic's going out

[00:26:49] I was like just watch me

[00:26:50] And I came back and they were like

[00:26:51] Kid fucking lost it

[00:26:52] He's like over the hill

[00:26:53] We shouldn't

[00:26:54] And you know what I picked for best picture

[00:26:56] Because I'd seen it

[00:26:57] And I hadn't seen it in private

[00:26:58] Because it was too violent

[00:26:59] So I was the only one at the party

[00:27:01] With Shakespeare in love

[00:27:02] And I remember throwing my hands over here

[00:27:04] And running in circles of hearts

[00:27:06] Harrison Ford who's like

[00:27:07] Shakespeare in love

[00:27:08] Shakespeare in love

[00:27:09] What a great movie

[00:27:10] Anyway

[00:27:11] The Sixth Sense

[00:27:12] The Sixth Sense

[00:27:13] Guys

[00:27:14] Let's talk about it

[00:27:15] Katie what did you think of the movie

[00:27:16] So this movie is great

[00:27:18] I have one gripe as Ben mentioned before

[00:27:21] The things started

[00:27:22] But I don't want to start talking about the twist yet

[00:27:23] I feel like we got a

[00:27:24] You got a build up

[00:27:25] But FYI guys

[00:27:26] We are going to spoil

[00:27:27] The ending of The Sixth Sense

[00:27:28] In case you want to keep that

[00:27:30] Here's my overarching theory

[00:27:32] That I think we can start with

[00:27:33] I think Tony Collette

[00:27:34] Is the secret weapon

[00:27:35] Agreed

[00:27:36] He is the reason this is

[00:27:37] She's not the only reason

[00:27:38] But like

[00:27:39] Oh my god

[00:27:40] I have the exact same piece

[00:27:41] Oscar nominated

[00:27:42] We should mention

[00:27:43] Her only Oscar nominated

[00:27:44] No way

[00:27:45] Yeah

[00:27:46] Nuts

[00:27:47] I agree that

[00:27:48] I think she's the turnkey

[00:27:49] Of the entire film working

[00:27:50] Yeah

[00:27:51] But also Haley Joel Osment

[00:27:52] Is so much better

[00:27:53] Than I ever would have remembered

[00:27:54] Of my own

[00:27:55] Like is I kid acting in general

[00:27:56] For me

[00:27:57] Like Jacob Tremblay

[00:27:58] Good on you

[00:27:59] I don't wish

[00:28:00] Yeah that's how I feel too

[00:28:01] But Haley Joel Osment

[00:28:02] Is great

[00:28:03] Well he's given a performance

[00:28:04] Yeah

[00:28:05] He's actually acting

[00:28:06] He's that rare thing

[00:28:07] Yeah

[00:28:08] I mean he'd been acting

[00:28:09] Since he was like

[00:28:10] Two

[00:28:11] Right

[00:28:12] And his dad was an actor

[00:28:13] He was an actor

[00:28:14] He was an actor

[00:28:15] Yeah

[00:28:16] I listened to his episode WTF

[00:28:17] His father had like

[00:28:18] Sort of been an actor

[00:28:19] He didn't have some WTF

[00:28:20] Yeah it's weird

[00:28:21] His dad like

[00:28:22] Functioned as his acting coach

[00:28:23] His father Eugene Michael Osment

[00:28:25] Is a theater and movie actor

[00:28:26] Okay

[00:28:27] Who made sure his son

[00:28:28] Read the entire screenplay

[00:28:30] And like

[00:28:31] Sort of coached him through it

[00:28:32] You know like

[00:28:33] But you often see

[00:28:34] Child performances

[00:28:35] That you can tell our coach

[00:28:36] Well we talk about

[00:28:37] Jake Lloyd

[00:28:38] Right

[00:28:39] And it's like

[00:28:40] They're repeating the line

[00:28:41] Readings their parents

[00:28:42] Gave them in the trailer

[00:28:43] And like

[00:28:44] Okay it makes sense that this

[00:28:45] Real deal actor

[00:28:46] Coaching him through it

[00:28:47] Like he had a dad

[00:28:48] Someone he was comfortable with

[00:28:49] Yeah

[00:28:50] But I mean

[00:28:51] He's like

[00:28:52] He's got the fucking tool

[00:28:53] He's responding to Bruce Willis

[00:28:54] And the scenes

[00:28:55] He's like

[00:28:56] He's a real actor

[00:28:57] Like the scene

[00:28:58] There's also incredibly well shot

[00:28:59] Where Tony Klutz going to the washing machine

[00:29:00] And she comes back in the kitchen

[00:29:01] The cabinets are all open

[00:29:02] It's so chilling

[00:29:03] And Haley Joel Osment

[00:29:04] Is great in it

[00:29:05] Cause he's reacting

[00:29:06] Yeah I think

[00:29:07] That scene is so frightening

[00:29:08] It's so scary

[00:29:09] Me and Ben were talking about

[00:29:10] How this movie is really scary

[00:29:11] For the first

[00:29:12] 50 minutes

[00:29:13] Which is how long it takes

[00:29:14] And then

[00:29:15] Where you're like

[00:29:16] What's up with this kid

[00:29:17] But then after that

[00:29:18] You get the Misha Barden stuff

[00:29:19] It gets even scarier

[00:29:20] That's also

[00:29:21] I'm not joking

[00:29:22] Yeah

[00:29:23] You know I want to do this

[00:29:24] I want to talk about

[00:29:25] Just because this film

[00:29:26] Was so much about expectation

[00:29:27] How much I caught everyone

[00:29:28] By surprise

[00:29:29] The film itself

[00:29:30] So you said Katie

[00:29:31] You saw it late

[00:29:32] Yeah

[00:29:33] You didn't see when it was released

[00:29:34] I think I knew

[00:29:35] I think I was reading

[00:29:36] Entertainment Weekly

[00:29:37] And I knew the twist by then

[00:29:38] Somehow

[00:29:39] I think I saw it in theaters

[00:29:40] But like in September

[00:29:41] Or something like that

[00:29:42] Okay

[00:29:43] David do you remember

[00:29:44] When you saw it

[00:29:45] I mean what your expectations were for

[00:29:46] I saw it in theaters

[00:29:47] Didn't know the twist

[00:29:48] Was awesome

[00:29:49] I remember seeing

[00:29:50] I remember knowing almost

[00:29:51] Nothing about it

[00:29:52] I barely remember

[00:29:53] We're talking a long time ago now

[00:29:54] Right

[00:29:55] That's far, far away

[00:29:56] My pants hated Bruce Willis

[00:29:58] I very much was raised in a way

[00:29:59] Where they were like

[00:30:00] I loved Bruce Willis

[00:30:01] Oh I started loving him after this

[00:30:02] But I definitely like inherited

[00:30:04] This was maybe one of the first

[00:30:05] Times I like split from my parents

[00:30:07] Where they were like

[00:30:08] Hey our movie stars that we like

[00:30:09] Are like Bill Murray

[00:30:10] Like that's like

[00:30:11] You know we were like

[00:30:12] This is a Bill Murray family

[00:30:13] But it was and then they'd be like

[00:30:14] We don't find Jim Carrey funny

[00:30:15] And I was like

[00:30:16] Okay we don't find Jim Carrey funny

[00:30:17] Like I remember having

[00:30:18] I found Jim Carrey very funny

[00:30:19] I had to discover him on my own later

[00:30:20] Because my parents were like

[00:30:21] Jim Carrey's not funny

[00:30:22] And I was like

[00:30:23] Okay Jim Carrey's not funny

[00:30:24] And they were like

[00:30:25] If you had been 10 minutes

[00:30:26] When Ace Ventura came out

[00:30:27] You would have had no choice

[00:30:28] In the matter

[00:30:29] You would have found Jim Carrey funny

[00:30:30] No but I remember all my friends

[00:30:31] Going to see all the Jim Carrey movies

[00:30:32] And me going into school being

[00:30:33] Like I don't see Jim Carrey

[00:30:34] Movies he's not funny

[00:30:35] Like I just like

[00:30:36] Paraded back what my parents said

[00:30:37] I was like

[00:30:38] Do you guys know why I like Bruce Willis?

[00:30:39] Why?

[00:30:40] North

[00:30:41] Oh David

[00:30:42] North

[00:30:43] I liked North

[00:30:44] Do you know why I liked

[00:30:45] Bruce Willis movie?

[00:30:46] Also I had seen

[00:30:47] Like the fifth element

[00:30:48] In Armageddon

[00:30:49] So like you know

[00:30:50] Like I knew my Bruce Willis

[00:30:51] This was probably my very first

[00:30:53] Bruce Willis movie

[00:30:54] That's quite possible

[00:30:55] I was going to say Bruno the Kid

[00:30:56] It's a dumb joke

[00:30:57] Do you remember the cartoon show

[00:30:58] That was him as a little kid

[00:30:59] As a secret agent

[00:31:00] And he played Harmonica

[00:31:01] Bruce Willis made some weird choices

[00:31:02] He made some terrible choices

[00:31:03] Bruno the Kid

[00:31:04] I remember they had a Wendy's

[00:31:05] Kids Meal promotion

[00:31:06] And I started watching the show

[00:31:07] With the Toys R Us

[00:31:08] Wow that merchandise really worked on you

[00:31:10] Yeah merchandise spotlight

[00:31:11] I mean Griffin's a

[00:31:12] Come on you listed the podcast

[00:31:13] Merchandise really works on it

[00:31:15] It does its number

[00:31:16] Merchandise is essentially like

[00:31:17] I was a kid where if you had an advertising campaign

[00:31:20] You could like test how well it was working

[00:31:22] Based on whether or not

[00:31:23] I would absorb it as a life mantra

[00:31:24] So I remember like

[00:31:25] Adults would be like

[00:31:26] Griffin what do you want to be

[00:31:27] When you grow up

[00:31:28] I'd be like I don't want to grow up

[00:31:29] I'm a Toys R Us kid

[00:31:30] And I thought that was a legitimate

[00:31:31] Answer to that question

[00:31:32] I want to revisit the Tony Collette thing

[00:31:35] Because I do think it's crucial

[00:31:36] I think that so many actors would have played her

[00:31:38] As like trashy

[00:31:39] Yeah

[00:31:40] Like kind of fucked up mom

[00:31:41] Right like would have made very easy choices

[00:31:43] In that with that role

[00:31:44] Yeah

[00:31:45] And it's that she's not like that

[00:31:47] That you're like okay this is not

[00:31:49] You know I don't know

[00:31:50] It makes the first half of the movie succeed

[00:31:51] Yeah

[00:31:52] Obviously makes the sec go on

[00:31:53] You're talking

[00:31:54] Well I was just going to say

[00:31:55] The thing about my parents didn't like Bruce Willis

[00:31:57] So when the movie was coming out

[00:31:58] My dad was like

[00:31:59] Ah it's another dumb Bruce Willis movie

[00:32:00] Like I think he even thought it was

[00:32:01] An action movie

[00:32:02] Sure

[00:32:03] Just like some dumb Bruce Willis

[00:32:04] Although it had this like

[00:32:05] Like a weird poster with like a kid

[00:32:07] Coming out of a glowing light

[00:32:08] Yeah

[00:32:09] And it had like the first sense of sight

[00:32:11] The second sense of sound

[00:32:12] Like it had the list

[00:32:13] So it was kind of marketed as like

[00:32:14] A spooky thriller kind of thing

[00:32:16] And that was part of I think Shyamalan being

[00:32:17] Like you guys fucked up the marketing

[00:32:19] For wide awake

[00:32:20] You made it be about a goofy nun

[00:32:22] Who plays baseball

[00:32:23] Right

[00:32:24] It was Rosie O'Donnell

[00:32:25] So they were like this is

[00:32:26] We're going to just go hard on Rosie O'Donnell

[00:32:27] So he I think was like

[00:32:29] We're going to do this as I want to do it

[00:32:30] Like and if it doesn't work

[00:32:32] Then you know I'm out of the business

[00:32:33] I don't know

[00:32:34] The name was above the title

[00:32:35] But I believe in the main one sheet

[00:32:37] His face was not on it

[00:32:38] It was the silhouette of the kid

[00:32:39] They later made a one sheet

[00:32:40] With his face

[00:32:41] And see I didn't know if the

[00:32:43] The simpler one was the one that came out later

[00:32:45] When it was like there's a spooky movie

[00:32:46] You should see

[00:32:47] Like I don't

[00:32:48] It sound clear to me how much people knew

[00:32:50] To be scared of this sense

[00:32:51] When they went into it

[00:32:52] Well that's why I kind of want to get at this

[00:32:53] Because I don't know if I was just

[00:32:55] More sheltered from it than most people

[00:32:57] Yeah

[00:32:58] We're looking at the poster

[00:33:00] It's a very evocative poster

[00:33:02] Good poster

[00:33:03] I knew very little about it

[00:33:05] I think I saw with my dad maybe in its

[00:33:07] Third week of release

[00:33:08] Sure

[00:33:09] And like he had very much written off

[00:33:11] When it came out

[00:33:12] But it was such a hit that you were interested

[00:33:13] Was that part of it?

[00:33:14] Well it was like that thing where my dad was like

[00:33:15] I've heard from a lot of people it's really good

[00:33:17] It's really scary and I was like

[00:33:18] I don't like scary movies

[00:33:19] And he was like the kid that's supposed to be amazing

[00:33:21] So and you liked that

[00:33:22] I really

[00:33:23] He didn't tell you this is from the director

[00:33:24] Of Wide Awake your favorite movie

[00:33:26] I didn't know that until years later

[00:33:28] Sure

[00:33:29] And here's what's fascinating

[00:33:30] I walked out of sixth sense

[00:33:31] And was like this guy's my favorite director

[00:33:32] Not knowing that he had already made one of my favorite movies

[00:33:36] Yeah anyway

[00:33:37] IMDB really would have helped you out back then

[00:33:38] Yeah hardcore

[00:33:40] But my dad

[00:33:42] I really wanted to be an actor

[00:33:43] My parents didn't want me to be like a child actor

[00:33:47] And so I went to school where he didn't do plays

[00:33:50] So when kids were good in movies

[00:33:51] I was very engaged

[00:33:52] Because I had the sense of jealousy

[00:33:54] But also appreciation

[00:33:55] I feel like that too

[00:33:56] Not the jealousy part

[00:33:57] But I certainly was engaged by the kid actors

[00:33:58] Of our generation

[00:33:59] Like Macaulay Culkin and Mara Wilson

[00:34:00] And those kids who were like

[00:34:01] Oh like I recognize it

[00:34:02] Like there's that person again

[00:34:03] Right

[00:34:04] Yeah

[00:34:05] And I remember

[00:34:06] I feel like the main reason my dad took me to see the movie

[00:34:08] Was like everyone says this kid's really good

[00:34:10] We got to see this kid

[00:34:11] And all I knew was like

[00:34:12] At that point I guess the TV ads have the

[00:34:13] I see dead people line

[00:34:15] So it was like okay it's about ghosts

[00:34:16] It's about a kid

[00:34:17] Bruce Willis who my parents don't like

[00:34:18] But I have no sense of who he is

[00:34:20] I know nothing else

[00:34:21] And I think the key to this is

[00:34:22] I know we'll talk about the twist thing later

[00:34:24] I want to talk more about Tony Collette

[00:34:26] But I don't remember at that point in time

[00:34:28] And I don't know if it was just the environment I was in

[00:34:29] No one primed me for it to be a twist movie

[00:34:31] Sure

[00:34:32] No one went in saying like

[00:34:33] Holy shit this movie's ending is crazy

[00:34:35] Like which I don't have news for

[00:34:36] But I think that's probably what like adults were saying

[00:34:38] Part of the word amount

[00:34:39] Yeah maybe

[00:34:40] I don't know if it was just that I was young

[00:34:41] But I remember hearing

[00:34:42] It's very scary

[00:34:43] I remember hearing this kid's amazing

[00:34:44] He might win the Oscar

[00:34:45] And even three weeks into release

[00:34:47] Like I remember when

[00:34:49] M. Night Shyamalan makes his cameos the doctor

[00:34:51] I recognized him on screen

[00:34:53] In the movie

[00:34:54] Because I had seen so many interviews with him

[00:34:56] Oh he's been like

[00:34:57] On entertainment tonight

[00:34:58] Whatever yeah

[00:34:59] Entertainment tonight

[00:35:00] And you know at the movies I was watching

[00:35:02] You know all those shows

[00:35:03] He was starting to circulate around

[00:35:04] As like you know the young hot shot director

[00:35:06] Because he was like 29

[00:35:08] The movie was doing insanely well

[00:35:10] And it was sort of like

[00:35:11] That rare thing where like

[00:35:13] A film just sort of catches like wildfire

[00:35:15] And everyone has to see it

[00:35:16] To be part of the conversation

[00:35:17] Yeah

[00:35:18] And it's not a pre-built property

[00:35:20] Right

[00:35:21] Well then it happened right after the Blair Witch Project

[00:35:23] It's so like there were two

[00:35:24] My Bob going insane

[00:35:25] Did that in one summer

[00:35:26] And it worked both times

[00:35:27] Yeah

[00:35:28] Now this is a PG-13 movie

[00:35:30] Yes

[00:35:31] Which people forget

[00:35:32] Because it sort of walks the line

[00:35:34] Yeah

[00:35:35] But where as Blair Witch Project

[00:35:36] Thing was more of a grown up movie

[00:35:37] In like a college movie

[00:35:38] Yeah definitely

[00:35:39] Like and the Blair Witch Project

[00:35:41] Was that thing where we went in being told

[00:35:42] Like you'll never be so like

[00:35:44] Fucking scared like watching this thing

[00:35:45] I remember I was going in expecting

[00:35:46] Just like the most terrifying ride of my life

[00:35:49] I'm sure there were water cooler

[00:35:50] Conversations that were like

[00:35:51] Man crazy twist ending

[00:35:52] But I remember the more dominant thing

[00:35:53] Being in total

[00:35:55] Like a little later

[00:35:56] Well the kid but also people being like

[00:35:57] It's so fucking scary

[00:35:58] Sure

[00:35:59] Or people being like

[00:36:00] You have to see it

[00:36:01] You won't believe how scary it is

[00:36:03] And so that's what I went in primed for

[00:36:06] The film you know

[00:36:09] Like all great horror films do

[00:36:12] Invest you immediately

[00:36:14] Emotionally

[00:36:16] In the characters

[00:36:17] Yeah

[00:36:18] And it's the way that

[00:36:19] I mean Haley Joll's husband's incredible

[00:36:20] Tony Klutz incredible

[00:36:21] Those two characters are so well written to

[00:36:24] With I feel like not hitting any of the overly

[00:36:26] Cliche points

[00:36:28] Of like

[00:36:29] Okay the father left them

[00:36:30] Sure

[00:36:31] The mother scraping by

[00:36:32] The kid is troubled

[00:36:33] The kid's troubled

[00:36:34] She was close to her mother who just died

[00:36:36] You know they're really kind of

[00:36:37] Like just pulling it together

[00:36:39] And I love that thing

[00:36:40] That the movie starts with like Bruce Willis

[00:36:41] Is like oh okay this is like an

[00:36:42] Absent father thing

[00:36:43] The kid's holding on to that

[00:36:44] And he's just seen where the kid

[00:36:45] Walked you know where Haley Joll

[00:36:47] Has been has to walk towards him

[00:36:48] When he's right and walk away when he's wrong

[00:36:49] Yeah

[00:36:50] And then Haley Joll's husband's like

[00:36:51] Oh do you get it

[00:36:52] And he's like I don't know you don't get it

[00:36:53] And then like leaves

[00:36:54] Yeah yeah yeah

[00:36:55] Well it's like my big take away from watching this movie

[00:36:57] Is it's like

[00:36:58] It's kind of a perfect screenplay

[00:37:01] Yeah great great screenplay

[00:37:02] In the sense that like you could just

[00:37:03] Make a college screenwriting course

[00:37:05] Just this script

[00:37:06] And I wouldn't argue it's the best script

[00:37:07] Of all time

[00:37:08] But if you're looking to show like

[00:37:09] Hey here's how a script should function

[00:37:11] Here's how you put all the pieces in place

[00:37:13] That make everything you want to do later on

[00:37:15] Right

[00:37:16] Right but it's also like

[00:37:17] A lot of very active like

[00:37:18] Show don't tell choices

[00:37:19] Where it's like how do you get

[00:37:20] The characterization out

[00:37:21] That thing with the game

[00:37:23] The mind reading game is like so strong

[00:37:25] The scene that comes right before that

[00:37:27] It's actually part of the same scene

[00:37:28] But the dialogue exchange that comes right before that

[00:37:30] Tony Collette greets Haley Joll's husband

[00:37:32] And she goes so how was your day today

[00:37:34] Oh and they do this sort of thing

[00:37:35] Yeah

[00:37:36] I went a lot of read

[00:37:37] It's a good scene

[00:37:38] It's so good

[00:37:39] And I remember that hitting me so hard

[00:37:40] Even as a child of like

[00:37:42] I recognize that as being the type of mother

[00:37:44] I see of other kids around me

[00:37:46] Like that's the kid where there's something sad

[00:37:48] And I can't quite put my finger on what it is

[00:37:50] And so it's a single mother

[00:37:51] And they both get it

[00:37:52] Like she seems sweaty you know

[00:37:54] And it's like but she really really loves him

[00:37:56] And she's trying her hardest to put a good face on

[00:37:58] Yeah and you know what detail this is

[00:37:59] In the screenplay but it's visually

[00:38:00] That there's a puppy and a kitten

[00:38:01] Like maybe two puppies like running around this house

[00:38:03] And you don't know why they're there

[00:38:04] And they keep showing up like in the middle of things

[00:38:06] And they're in the way

[00:38:07] They're not characters but you're like

[00:38:08] Oh this is a house where they would just get a puppy

[00:38:09] Right

[00:38:10] Like maybe to make up for the dad leaving

[00:38:12] And she is a woman who would want to bring like

[00:38:14] More helpless creatures into her house

[00:38:15] Yes

[00:38:16] 100%

[00:38:17] No that character is so well done

[00:38:18] And she really downplays it

[00:38:19] You could have gone hard on the accent

[00:38:20] Or a little way downplays it

[00:38:21] And even the design of the character

[00:38:22] I mean the nails are like good but not overdone

[00:38:25] The shirts are too tight and too shiny

[00:38:27] But not crazy

[00:38:28] You have Helen Hunt and Pay It Forward

[00:38:30] Around the same time in another Haley Jolloch movie

[00:38:32] Where she has like been shot in the face with makeup

[00:38:35] And like as he's like crazy like bank teller nails

[00:38:38] And like you know that's like the bad version of this character

[00:38:41] But you get the sense of history which is

[00:38:43] She was probably you know like

[00:38:45] A total heartbreaker

[00:38:47] Oh Tony Collette

[00:38:48] Yeah

[00:38:49] Totally

[00:38:50] You know got together with a guy

[00:38:51] Got pregnant like 18 or 19

[00:38:53] You know

[00:38:54] How old was Tony Collette when he came out?

[00:38:56] That's a good question

[00:38:57] I mean tell ya

[00:38:58] I guess 34

[00:38:59] No

[00:39:00] You think older than that

[00:39:01] She was way younger than that

[00:39:02] Really?

[00:39:03] So she was born in 72

[00:39:05] So this was she was 27

[00:39:08] Yeah around 26, 27

[00:39:11] Wow

[00:39:12] So she's really young

[00:39:13] So like teen pregnancy you know

[00:39:15] So it's like she was like the prettiest girl

[00:39:17] She's playing a little older is my guess

[00:39:19] Because that's how Hollywood treated Tony Collette

[00:39:21] It was like oh you're like the ugly duckling from Muriel's wedding

[00:39:24] Why don't you play like the friend

[00:39:25] So Haley Jolloch's been in this

[00:39:27] Yeah

[00:39:28] So yeah she would have had him when he was like 18

[00:39:30] Right

[00:39:31] But I think you get the whole sense of history there

[00:39:33] Where it's like you know reality sets in

[00:39:35] She has to start working

[00:39:37] She starts aging

[00:39:38] Wow you're really you're digging deep into this

[00:39:40] Oh and the guy leaves her

[00:39:42] You know and you get the sense of all that

[00:39:44] And this woman who now has like kind of

[00:39:46] You know had all the potential

[00:39:47] Yeah and has a kid who's really

[00:39:49] Weird

[00:39:50] Who she loves

[00:39:51] Yeah

[00:39:52] She loves

[00:39:53] Unreservedly but doesn't know how to fucking deal with him

[00:39:55] No and also the kid is showing signs of being like an abused kid

[00:39:58] And that's no good for her

[00:39:59] Because that scene with Shyamalan is the doctor

[00:40:01] Yeah

[00:40:02] Well and you get why he would look at her a scans

[00:40:04] Because she has all the signs of it

[00:40:05] But you also believe in her so much

[00:40:07] That she wouldn't hurt him

[00:40:08] Yeah

[00:40:09] Totally

[00:40:10] Right

[00:40:11] Developed really well up to that point

[00:40:12] But what a really

[00:40:13] I mean God what a good fucking performance

[00:40:15] And there's the scene

[00:40:17] Is it the one with the cupboards

[00:40:18] I mean that one's really well played

[00:40:20] What a good fucking

[00:40:21] Because it's one continuous shot with no cut

[00:40:23] They're at the table

[00:40:24] It goes handheld

[00:40:25] When she's taking his tie off

[00:40:27] She's dumping it in the thing

[00:40:28] She's getting another tie for him

[00:40:29] A little clip on ties

[00:40:30] Yeah

[00:40:31] But it's like

[00:40:32] He's got such a good sense

[00:40:34] Shyamalan at this point of

[00:40:38] Using spatial geography to scare people

[00:40:40] To establish where everything is

[00:40:42] And then without a cut

[00:40:44] Terrifying people by having them go

[00:40:46] I don't understand how that could have happened

[00:40:48] Even from a filmmaking perspective

[00:40:49] How you could have opened all those cupboards

[00:40:51] That quickly and then continuous shot

[00:40:52] It's the cheapest special effect in the world

[00:40:53] It's true

[00:40:54] You get three PAs to go run

[00:40:55] And go have it

[00:40:56] Not even a noise

[00:40:57] Yeah

[00:40:58] Like yeah

[00:40:59] But what's great about it too

[00:41:00] Is because I remember that being the moment

[00:41:02] That really started to like put me on edge

[00:41:03] Watching it for the first time

[00:41:04] It's startling

[00:41:05] Yeah

[00:41:06] You hear her scream

[00:41:07] Before you see what she's screaming at

[00:41:08] So you follow her from behind

[00:41:10] She throws the tie into the washing machine

[00:41:13] She comes out

[00:41:14] You hear her

[00:41:15] Ah

[00:41:16] And the camera spins around

[00:41:17] And you see the cupboards

[00:41:18] And he's just sitting there still

[00:41:19] But looks haunted

[00:41:20] Oh yeah

[00:41:21] And his face is so perfect

[00:41:22] I know

[00:41:23] There's that shot afterwards of like the palm print

[00:41:24] On the table

[00:41:25] He's terrified but he can't show her why

[00:41:26] He's terrified

[00:41:27] Because he already is aware of the fact

[00:41:28] That he's putting her through too much

[00:41:29] Yeah

[00:41:30] He's trying to protect her

[00:41:31] By asking for the pop tarts

[00:41:32] But he also knows that she's going to get angry

[00:41:33] At him

[00:41:34] Yeah

[00:41:35] He doesn't like

[00:41:36] So good

[00:41:37] And yeah

[00:41:38] What's the one where she's like

[00:41:40] What's the scene where she sort of breaks down

[00:41:42] And is like

[00:41:43] Stop being so weird

[00:41:44] I need you to like be normal

[00:41:46] One of the weird scenes where something happens

[00:41:48] It's before he gets locked in the cabinet

[00:41:50] By those mean kids at the party

[00:41:51] Yes

[00:41:52] It's a tough scene

[00:41:53] Oh god

[00:41:54] There's a scene where most movies would have gone into the cabinet

[00:41:56] And this movie doesn't need to

[00:41:58] No I don't know how much of this was intentional

[00:42:01] Or not

[00:42:02] But the character of the other kid at school

[00:42:04] Who's the child actor

[00:42:05] Trevor Howard

[00:42:06] Yes

[00:42:08] Tommy Tomesino

[00:42:10] Trevor Morgan is

[00:42:11] Trevor Morgan not Trevor Howard

[00:42:12] I worked with him in a film called

[00:42:13] Butt Wessel

[00:42:14] That was not what it was called when we shot it

[00:42:16] And sometimes

[00:42:17] Oh wow it came out like two years ago

[00:42:19] Yeah it was shot like four years ago

[00:42:20] I mean I know him mostly from the glass house

[00:42:22] In Jurassic Park 3

[00:42:23] When he was like sort of the stock annoying kid

[00:42:26] Remember the glass house

[00:42:27] Yup

[00:42:28] What a weird movie that is

[00:42:29] That's like basically Lidly Sobieski

[00:42:32] Is afraid for two hours to steal and scar

[00:42:34] She did a lot of that

[00:42:35] Yes

[00:42:36] Awful horror movie

[00:42:37] You know how terrible this is

[00:42:39] He's gonna get away from him

[00:42:41] That's that movie

[00:42:42] Go Lidly

[00:42:43] No

[00:42:44] Leave the glass house

[00:42:45] Go to a different house

[00:42:47] Go on sir

[00:42:48] Or throw some stones

[00:42:49] It's called improv

[00:42:50] He plays this kid who's been in a

[00:42:53] Cops Europe commercial

[00:42:54] Yeah

[00:42:55] And now thinks he's like big shit

[00:42:56] Hot shit

[00:42:57] And keeps on referencing acting

[00:42:59] Like the opening scene where like Tony Colette's

[00:43:00] Looking at the way they're making trees

[00:43:01] That walk below

[00:43:02] Is that the same kid, the improv kid?

[00:43:03] Yes

[00:43:04] It is cause Ben was asking me who's that kid

[00:43:06] And I couldn't remember

[00:43:07] Is that Trevor Howard?

[00:43:08] It's all the same kid

[00:43:09] Yeah

[00:43:10] I mean I was interested in his name

[00:43:11] I just like that line

[00:43:12] Well this is a UCB podcast

[00:43:13] Yeah

[00:43:14] You like that?

[00:43:15] The improv?

[00:43:16] Yeah

[00:43:17] Well cause I wanted to pull the clip

[00:43:18] And I mean we didn't really get to it

[00:43:19] We were trying to find it on YouTube

[00:43:20] But I mean it's a pretty

[00:43:21] That's a pretty obscure

[00:43:22] Sixth Sense coming

[00:43:23] But what will happen is after

[00:43:25] We record this and post

[00:43:27] I'm gonna add that line

[00:43:28] Throughout that episode

[00:43:29] You'll keep adding it in

[00:43:30] Whenever you guys have like a good riff moment

[00:43:32] Whenever we go on a tangent

[00:43:33] That hasn't happened so far

[00:43:34] So you'll play it right now

[00:43:36] But it'll also at this point

[00:43:37] Be the seventh time you played it

[00:43:39] Yeah

[00:43:40] But yeah

[00:43:41] He's like

[00:43:42] Yeah do you like that?

[00:43:43] It's called improv

[00:43:44] It was a good choice by me right

[00:43:45] When I put my arm around your shoulder

[00:43:46] Now I find this very interesting because

[00:43:48] He's made three movies with bullies now

[00:43:49] Three in a row

[00:43:50] Yes

[00:43:51] Wide awake and praying with anger

[00:43:52] Both very bully heavy

[00:43:53] Yeah

[00:43:54] M. Night Shyamalan probably

[00:43:55] Really got beat up as a kid

[00:43:56] Oh yeah

[00:43:57] Well I mean

[00:43:58] I think he says later films for a movie

[00:43:59] Has you know problems with criticism

[00:44:00] Very good point

[00:44:02] P.D. well said

[00:44:04] I don't know if he has any

[00:44:05] Preview of future episodes

[00:44:06] Does he have siblings

[00:44:07] Because he does kind of feel like the special

[00:44:09] Like his parents are just like

[00:44:10] An only child

[00:44:11] You know my knowledge you're the greatest

[00:44:12] Whether or not he had siblings

[00:44:14] He definitely was the special child

[00:44:15] Right

[00:44:16] So here's some things I picked up on

[00:44:17] Okay

[00:44:18] Haley Jules Osman's character in this film

[00:44:20] Is kind of the same character as Joseph Cross's

[00:44:22] Character in Wide awake

[00:44:23] Sure

[00:44:24] And someone who's sort of like

[00:44:25] On the bleeding edge of like

[00:44:26] Being in touch with something super natural

[00:44:28] Yes and it's super precocious

[00:44:30] Why is he on his ears

[00:44:31] His parents don't know how to deal with him

[00:44:33] Very true

[00:44:34] Obsessed with death right

[00:44:35] The difference between

[00:44:36] Tony Collette is like the Dennis Leary of this movie

[00:44:38] Yes

[00:44:39] Dennis Leary's in Wide awake

[00:44:40] I'm learning so much about this movie

[00:44:41] I'm never gonna see it

[00:44:42] You're never gonna see it

[00:44:43] Katie it's a delight

[00:44:44] It's so bad

[00:44:45] If you wanna know what it would be like

[00:44:46] To raise Lil Guffin

[00:44:48] You know what

[00:44:49] I'm gonna listen to the podcast

[00:44:50] To that has as they record this

[00:44:51] Not been released

[00:44:52] So then I'll tell all about it

[00:44:53] But you will listen and you'll be delighted

[00:44:54] By our wonderful commentary

[00:44:55] Now Amash Amlan said when he made Wide awake

[00:44:57] That his goal was to make a comedy

[00:44:59] That could make you cry

[00:45:00] And so like everything the kid says

[00:45:02] In Wide awake is like quote unquote profound

[00:45:05] Must we talk about Wide awake

[00:45:06] But it's like simultaneously like touching

[00:45:08] And funny

[00:45:09] It's so bad

[00:45:10] And this film he just makes

[00:45:11] Like this is like the real life version

[00:45:14] Of what the Joseph Cross kid would be

[00:45:15] Do you know what I'm saying

[00:45:16] Like in Wide awake he's like a movie kid

[00:45:18] But he doesn't speak in homilies

[00:45:20] But that's the point

[00:45:21] A kid who is like that obsessed with death

[00:45:23] And is that wise beyond his years

[00:45:25] Wouldn't be like funny and charming about it

[00:45:27] He'd be totally weighed down by it

[00:45:29] He would act like Haley Jolassim

[00:45:31] And the Haley Jolassim doesn't this film

[00:45:33] He'd wear little glasses

[00:45:34] He'd walk around

[00:45:35] He constantly looked like he was on the verge of tears

[00:45:37] With the glasses is that shoot is

[00:45:39] And the little shock of white hair

[00:45:41] And I also think

[00:45:42] He was a cute kid actor

[00:45:44] I can't stand kid actors

[00:45:46] But Haley Jolassim works

[00:45:48] Yeah he works

[00:45:49] He's so present

[00:45:50] That's the big thing

[00:45:51] It's like he's so

[00:45:52] We gotta talk about Bruce Willis though

[00:45:54] I feel like now we're giving Bruce short shrift

[00:45:56] Because it's true that he was the least discussed

[00:45:58] I think of the three big performances

[00:46:00] In the movie

[00:46:01] But he's pretty good

[00:46:02] I wanna talk about Haley a little more

[00:46:04] And then we can get on to Bruce

[00:46:05] No, no, no

[00:46:06] You know who he lost to?

[00:46:07] At the Oscars?

[00:46:08] Can you remember?

[00:46:09] Michael Cain, Setter House Rules

[00:46:10] I was furious

[00:46:11] I never wanted anyone to win an Oscar

[00:46:13] More than I did that year

[00:46:14] Haley Jolassim

[00:46:15] That's crazy because I really wanted Tom Cruise to win

[00:46:17] Or Jude Law

[00:46:18] It was Michael Clark Duncan

[00:46:20] Number 5 in the crowd

[00:46:21] Michael Cain is not great

[00:46:24] In the Setter House Rules

[00:46:25] And I love Michael Cain

[00:46:26] He's one of the best actors of all time

[00:46:27] I completely forgot that one

[00:46:28] Is that his only Oscar?

[00:46:29] He has two Oscars

[00:46:30] Because he's great in Hennan and her sisters

[00:46:32] He has great in Hennan and her sisters

[00:46:33] That is a fine win

[00:46:34] But he was not at the ceremony

[00:46:36] Because he was filming Jaws for the Revenge

[00:46:38] For Hennan and her sisters

[00:46:39] He was at the ceremony

[00:46:40] He was doing a remake of Jaws for the Revenge

[00:46:42] Remember when he lost for the quiet in American

[00:46:44] And he was furious

[00:46:45] And it was like dude

[00:46:46] You were never gonna win for the quiet American

[00:46:48] You can see his red angry face

[00:46:50] Quite American was the after-sister

[00:46:51] It was like three years later

[00:46:52] It was the Ariadjian Brody

[00:46:53] It was the Ariadjian Brody beat

[00:46:54] Like the field that was like

[00:46:55] Daniel Day-Lewis, Nickolas Cage

[00:46:57] Jack Nicholson

[00:46:58] It was four guys who won already

[00:47:00] And Michael Cain

[00:47:02] Improv's gonna go right there, right Ben?

[00:47:04] Yeah

[00:47:05] It's called Improv

[00:47:06] Alright we're back

[00:47:07] I remember the narrative being that year

[00:47:08] Honestly the campaign narrative that year was

[00:47:10] Well Michael Cain's won before

[00:47:11] But he didn't get to give a speech

[00:47:12] Okay

[00:47:13] So he should give him the Oscar

[00:47:14] Wow

[00:47:15] I mean they never give it to kids

[00:47:16] Except for Anna Packard

[00:47:17] My dad explained that to me

[00:47:18] And I was like

[00:47:19] No there's no way he can lose

[00:47:20] This is like the best performance I've ever seen

[00:47:21] And like immediately I'd seen

[00:47:22] Like 12 performances at that point

[00:47:24] But I was like

[00:47:25] This is the best performance of all time

[00:47:26] And I remember the year before that

[00:47:28] Was

[00:47:31] Ving Reims

[00:47:32] Wins the Golden Globe for Best Actor

[00:47:33] In a TV movie

[00:47:34] For Dunking

[00:47:35] Dunking only in America

[00:47:36] And he gets up there and he's like

[00:47:37] Gets Jack Lemon on stage

[00:47:38] I'm nominated against Jack Lemon

[00:47:39] Oh my god

[00:47:40] My acting idol

[00:47:41] I gotta give you a war to him

[00:47:42] It's the porneest thing in the world

[00:47:43] But Ving Reims totally pulls it off

[00:47:44] I just saw that for

[00:47:45] I guess the first time since 1998

[00:47:46] And it's incredible

[00:47:47] Jack Lemon is like so embarrassed

[00:47:49] That's the best thing

[00:47:50] Jack Lemon's like

[00:47:51] Huh?

[00:47:52] Okay

[00:47:53] And isn't it for like

[00:47:54] It's for like the 12 Angry Men remake

[00:47:55] It's not even for like some

[00:47:56] Seven on Jack Lemon performance

[00:47:58] It's not even fucking Tuesdays with

[00:48:00] Mari over here

[00:48:01] No, it's the 12 Angry Men remake

[00:48:03] And like when he did like the fucking

[00:48:05] Like red carpet line of like

[00:48:07] Fosing for the photograph

[00:48:08] This is a real tangent

[00:48:09] No, because I remember sitting there

[00:48:10] At the Oscar night

[00:48:11] And they go, Michael Cain

[00:48:13] And I went, wait hold on guys

[00:48:15] Hold on, Cain might give the Oscar to Haley

[00:48:17] Like I really thought Cain was gonna

[00:48:19] And there was the point in the speech

[00:48:20] Where he was like

[00:48:21] Oh my god my competition

[00:48:22] Is a young lad out there

[00:48:23] He said Haley

[00:48:24] I remember seeing your performance

[00:48:25] And going, well there's no chance

[00:48:26] I win this year

[00:48:27] I'm not even gonna try to do the accent

[00:48:28] But he was like

[00:48:29] He said it

[00:48:30] And I was like guys hold on

[00:48:31] He's gonna do it

[00:48:32] He's gonna give the Oscar to Haley Joel

[00:48:33] But when this landed you were like

[00:48:35] This isn't just a great performance

[00:48:37] From a child

[00:48:38] Cause someone like Jacob Tremblay

[00:48:39] Or like Wavon Zanay Wallace

[00:48:40] You're like this is a great performance

[00:48:41] But it might be

[00:48:42] The director, the circumstances

[00:48:43] Yeah

[00:48:44] And then to kid with a lot of good energy

[00:48:45] Like it's being captured very well

[00:48:47] Yeah

[00:48:48] The thing with Kovale

[00:48:49] Like Wavon Zanay Wallace and Jacob Tremblay

[00:48:50] Are a lot of voice over

[00:48:51] Which is always your first clue

[00:48:52] Of course

[00:48:53] Yeah

[00:48:54] There's a lot of like

[00:48:55] Okay and let's try it again

[00:48:56] And not that they're not great kids

[00:48:57] And no deserve other success

[00:48:58] Well I mean

[00:48:59] And I'm actually more in on Jacob Tremblay

[00:49:00] After his speech at the Critics Choice Awards

[00:49:02] Wow this is a poised kid

[00:49:04] Like baby this kid knows what he's talking about

[00:49:06] But what's amazing about Haley Joel Osman

[00:49:07] Is it

[00:49:08] He feels

[00:49:09] His craft is so strong

[00:49:11] He feels

[00:49:13] Really restrained

[00:49:14] Which is a thing you don't see

[00:49:15] From kids performances

[00:49:16] Where it's like

[00:49:17] He's not giving us everything he has

[00:49:19] He's holding a lot back

[00:49:20] In a way that is engaging

[00:49:22] Cause most kids it's like

[00:49:23] If you're gonna get a good performance out of them

[00:49:25] It's them going

[00:49:26] Whole hog

[00:49:27] Um

[00:49:28] And I remember

[00:49:30] Feeling at the time

[00:49:31] Not like oh this is an insane fluke performance

[00:49:33] From a kid but like

[00:49:34] This is the next major actor

[00:49:35] Yeah

[00:49:36] There's no question this guy grows up to become

[00:49:38] He's the male Jody Foster

[00:49:39] That's what he's gonna be

[00:49:40] Yeah I guess Jody Foster

[00:49:41] Is our one model of a kid actor

[00:49:42] Who cause like

[00:49:43] It's so rare for a kid actor

[00:49:44] It's so rare

[00:49:45] I mean that's been felt for a rare

[00:49:46] You could say Pac-Win

[00:49:47] I mean another Pac-Win

[00:49:48] But you know she's had a nice career

[00:49:49] Yeah she's still right for herself

[00:49:50] There's a few

[00:49:51] But it's certainly we all thought

[00:49:53] The thing is he made AI

[00:49:55] And I think he's wonderful in that movie

[00:49:57] But he could never escape them being like

[00:49:59] That's the creepy kid

[00:50:00] Like that's that solidified

[00:50:01] Like oh that's the kid who's really good at playing

[00:50:03] Creepy weirdos

[00:50:04] Yeah

[00:50:05] And then

[00:50:06] You can't do that when you're 15

[00:50:07] No and then when he hit adolescence

[00:50:09] And he made secondhand lions

[00:50:10] Isn't Michael Cain in that

[00:50:11] Yeah

[00:50:12] So they eventually

[00:50:13] See it worked out

[00:50:14] And he handed him the Oscar under the table

[00:50:15] Once his voice is cracking

[00:50:16] It's like oh dear

[00:50:17] No no no thank you put him away

[00:50:19] Put him away

[00:50:20] Boys don't do it

[00:50:21] Boys it's tough

[00:50:22] I'm really I'm like I guess Mickey Rooney had a very long career

[00:50:24] There's definitely like

[00:50:26] Like Tyler James Williams

[00:50:27] Who is an actor I really like

[00:50:29] Who is on everybody hates Christmas

[00:50:30] An adorable kid

[00:50:31] And now he was in like Dear White People

[00:50:33] He was on The Walking Dead

[00:50:34] You know like he's finding

[00:50:35] I mean there's like Jason Bateman I guess

[00:50:37] But he was a teenager

[00:50:38] I just saw him in Night of Cups this morning Christian Bale

[00:50:40] Really

[00:50:41] Oh yeah I was forgetting about Christian Bale

[00:50:43] But you know what I argue

[00:50:44] A thing with those guys

[00:50:45] Although in New Zealand

[00:50:46] I'm fucking Christian Bale

[00:50:48] He's already

[00:50:49] Wasn't he like 13 by the time

[00:50:50] He made

[00:50:51] But he's an empire of the sun

[00:50:52] Yeah but how old was he in that

[00:50:53] Pretty young I think

[00:50:54] I would argue that all those examples

[00:50:55] That were just cited though

[00:50:56] Were guys who were kind of simmering for a while

[00:50:58] They didn't have the huge thing

[00:51:00] When they were young

[00:51:01] They didn't have the six sense breakout on them

[00:51:02] You know and if anything

[00:51:03] Their biggest things were their biggest failures

[00:51:05] Right I mean Christian Bale

[00:51:06] Didn't really hit again until

[00:51:07] He was a grown up in American Psycho

[00:51:09] An empire of the sun was

[00:51:10] The least successful Spielberg movie

[00:51:11] You know it was a big deal

[00:51:12] That he was the kid in 241

[00:51:13] Yeah

[00:51:14] Did that do less

[00:51:15] I financially I think

[00:51:16] I'm talking about this son

[00:51:17] I'm fucking kidding

[00:51:18] Okay okay

[00:51:19] Haley Jalosman's incredible

[00:51:20] The performance by Trevor Morgan

[00:51:21] Feels like sort of a meta commentary

[00:51:23] On what most kid performances

[00:51:24] Are like to make things look better

[00:51:26] I also wonder if because

[00:51:28] I don't know if he could have

[00:51:29] That was your point from 20 minutes ago

[00:51:30] Yes I don't know if he could have

[00:51:31] Known that he was going to get

[00:51:32] Such a transcendent performance out of a kid

[00:51:33] I also wonder if it was

[00:51:34] I'm warning to Ben's printout

[00:51:35] When he saw Haley Jalosman

[00:51:37] He said

[00:51:38] I have to cast this kid

[00:51:40] I'm not here it is

[00:51:41] Like he was just

[00:51:42] He said like

[00:51:43] He wasn't sure if he wanted

[00:51:44] To make the movie if Osmond wasn't in

[00:51:46] Yeah you need a kid that good

[00:51:48] And I found it interesting

[00:51:49] He wrote a part that was a

[00:51:50] Shitty child actor

[00:51:51] Who takes himself very seriously

[00:51:52] With the parents and everything

[00:51:54] Maybe he hated Joseph Cross

[00:51:55] That's what I was wondering

[00:51:56] Because he just made a movie with kids

[00:51:57] You know

[00:51:58] I don't know maybe he did

[00:51:59] Or another yeah another Why Do We Kid

[00:52:00] Making two movies

[00:52:01] Or three movies back to back

[00:52:02] With kids

[00:52:03] And you know Spencer T. Clark

[00:52:04] Isn't unbreakable with a big car

[00:52:05] And then in Science

[00:52:06] He got Rory Culkin

[00:52:07] And Abigail Breslin

[00:52:08] And Abigail Breslin

[00:52:09] Oh this right I was thinking

[00:52:10] Dakota Fanning

[00:52:11] And Village is the first one

[00:52:12] Where it's not really

[00:52:13] You don't have like

[00:52:14] A haunted child somewhere

[00:52:15] In the middle of the story

[00:52:16] He works with kids a lot

[00:52:17] There's kids in the last airbender

[00:52:18] There's kids in the happening

[00:52:19] And then he made the visit

[00:52:20] Which is like a kid movie

[00:52:21] Yeah

[00:52:22] It was the big thing with these kids

[00:52:23] Who are more sort of emotionally

[00:52:25] Vulnerable than the adults around them

[00:52:27] You know are sensing something

[00:52:29] No pun intended you know

[00:52:31] But are like yeah

[00:52:33] Let's move on though

[00:52:34] So Bruce Willis

[00:52:35] Sure let's talk about Brucey

[00:52:36] Yeah Bruce Willis I feel like

[00:52:37] We're not giving enough credit

[00:52:38] Even now for being like

[00:52:39] Like we're talking about how he

[00:52:40] Wasn't engaged for like

[00:52:41] The last ten years of movies

[00:52:42] He's made

[00:52:43] Right

[00:52:44] He's very engaged in that

[00:52:46] Very engaged in that

[00:52:47] It's a very

[00:52:48] Thought through performance

[00:52:50] And like this is such a haunted movie

[00:52:52] Like the whole movie

[00:52:53] Once you realize like

[00:52:55] It is this weird movie

[00:52:56] That's like caught in stasis right

[00:52:57] Yes

[00:52:58] Like Bruce Willis is kind of

[00:52:59] Just wandering into places

[00:53:00] Yeah

[00:53:01] And sort of sitting down

[00:53:02] And no one's interacting with him

[00:53:03] Of course like you're like

[00:53:04] And you're not supposed to notice

[00:53:05] You're supposed to think like

[00:53:07] Oh this is part of my gripes

[00:53:09] We might have the same gripes

[00:53:10] That we can do

[00:53:11] Like ghost logic

[00:53:12] Ben's gripe corner

[00:53:13] The whole time I was so distracted

[00:53:15] By ghost logic

[00:53:16] Alright so what's your ghost logic

[00:53:17] Right

[00:53:18] Well just that point right there

[00:53:19] Did when he goes to

[00:53:21] The house and he's sitting with the mother

[00:53:23] Yeah

[00:53:24] Like when he kind of like

[00:53:26] Realized she never greeted him

[00:53:28] Made eye contact with him

[00:53:29] Paley Joel Osmond says in the big

[00:53:31] Icy Debt People monologue

[00:53:32] He says like they don't realize their debt

[00:53:34] He says that

[00:53:35] Like they don't know their debt

[00:53:36] And the other thing he said is

[00:53:37] They see what they want to see

[00:53:38] Right

[00:53:39] So there's the recurring thing where

[00:53:40] He keeps on trying to open

[00:53:41] The door

[00:53:42] And he touches is red

[00:53:43] There's this red motif through the movie

[00:53:45] Yeah I couldn't remember if it was anything

[00:53:46] He touches were just things

[00:53:47] It's like the balloon that

[00:53:49] Yeah red shows ghosts

[00:53:50] They're going around when red happens

[00:53:52] Red is like the other side I guess

[00:53:53] Is being interactive

[00:53:54] Or being cold

[00:53:55] The tent

[00:53:56] Or showing them red

[00:53:57] Yeah

[00:53:58] Well she does a good job of

[00:53:59] Estallishing the visual language

[00:54:00] Like that so you

[00:54:01] Very slowly

[00:54:02] Oh yes you start to anticipate

[00:54:03] You get scared before the thing

[00:54:04] Even happen

[00:54:05] But there are moments where I was like

[00:54:06] Who can see who

[00:54:08] What is happening

[00:54:09] Paley can see Bruce

[00:54:11] Bruce can't see any other ghosts

[00:54:12] That's crucial

[00:54:13] Right

[00:54:14] Which he says they can't see each other

[00:54:15] But when he goes

[00:54:16] Later in the film

[00:54:17] When they're helping out that little girl

[00:54:19] The barfing girl

[00:54:20] Yeah

[00:54:21] So it's like

[00:54:22] He can't see her

[00:54:24] No but then

[00:54:25] Bruce Willis can't see her

[00:54:26] But he's hanging out

[00:54:27] But he doesn't know that

[00:54:28] He's a ghost

[00:54:29] It gets really complicated

[00:54:30] Bruce Willis' whole haunting

[00:54:32] Like so ghosts right

[00:54:33] The idea I think is

[00:54:34] It's the Casper concept

[00:54:35] You have unsfulfilled business

[00:54:36] You're caught in your old business

[00:54:38] So Bruce Willis

[00:54:39] He's haunted by the fact that he

[00:54:41] Failed this kid

[00:54:42] Played by Donnie Wahlberg

[00:54:43] In the first scene of the movie

[00:54:44] Who shoots that

[00:54:45] Also great in that one scene

[00:54:46] Pretty uh

[00:54:47] Pretty uh

[00:54:48] Yeah

[00:54:49] A brave performance

[00:54:50] I was really ready to be like

[00:54:51] Ah whatever

[00:54:52] It's just a lot of like

[00:54:53] Making noises

[00:54:54] But like it's great

[00:54:55] It's pretty good

[00:54:56] And it's really scary

[00:54:57] For someone really scary

[00:54:58] He's playing a big guy

[00:54:59] But he's actually doing it

[00:55:00] In a very specific detailed way

[00:55:01] Yeah

[00:55:02] Not hamming it up

[00:55:03] Wait where is Donnie Wahlberg

[00:55:04] Donnie Wahlberg

[00:55:05] Can you shoot them at the beginning

[00:55:06] No shut up

[00:55:07] That's Donnie fucking Wahlberg

[00:55:08] Donnie Wahlberg

[00:55:09] New kids on the block is over

[00:55:10] He's got nothing going

[00:55:11] And Mark

[00:55:12] Mark is like

[00:55:13] Mark is taken on

[00:55:14] You know Mark is the huge thing

[00:55:15] Yeah

[00:55:16] So anyway so he's haunted by

[00:55:17] That professional failure

[00:55:18] Right

[00:55:19] And of course he's haunted by

[00:55:20] You know he's haunting his wife

[00:55:22] What seems like

[00:55:23] In this weird sort of way

[00:55:24] Where she can't let him go I guess

[00:55:25] It seems like every ghost

[00:55:26] Is trying to right the wrong of their death

[00:55:28] Well because the

[00:55:29] I think the thing where Ben and I overlap

[00:55:30] Is that it doesn't make any sense

[00:55:31] That Bruce Willis doesn't know he's dead

[00:55:32] I know they see what they want to see

[00:55:33] And they can't say things

[00:55:34] Sure

[00:55:35] But every interaction with Olivia Williams

[00:55:36] Especially like

[00:55:37] She's not talking to it

[00:55:38] I think she gets really sold out by it

[00:55:40] Like Olivia Williams she's amazing

[00:55:42] But I don't think she doesn't have room

[00:55:43] To do enough because her character

[00:55:45] Can't make any sense

[00:55:46] I know it's a tough role for Olivia

[00:55:47] Williams because she's literally

[00:55:48] Not out to look at him

[00:55:49] Yeah

[00:55:50] Like Bruce Willis not once

[00:55:52] Ate, drank or pooped

[00:55:53] Because he goes

[00:55:54] Ghost don't do that

[00:55:55] You think you would have figured it out

[00:55:57] But no this thing he keeps on saying

[00:55:59] Of they see what they want to see

[00:56:00] The thing with the cellar

[00:56:01] He keeps on trying to open the door

[00:56:02] He can't get it and then the last shot

[00:56:03] And he can't even

[00:56:04] That's interesting that he can't

[00:56:05] Even literally see a piece of furniture

[00:56:06] Right there's a piece of furniture

[00:56:07] She's put in front of it

[00:56:08] Right

[00:56:09] So it's like they're so single minded

[00:56:11] In their goals of what they're trying to do

[00:56:14] What are the two things he needs to do

[00:56:15] That haunt him in his death right

[00:56:17] He feels he failed this kid

[00:56:19] So he needs to correct that wrong

[00:56:20] In the same way Misha Barton has to get

[00:56:22] The dad to see the tape

[00:56:23] Yep

[00:56:24] You know

[00:56:25] We gotta talk about that whole sequence

[00:56:26] Cause that's like the movie set piece

[00:56:28] The whole Misha Barton

[00:56:29] And we'll get to that

[00:56:30] And the lingering feeling

[00:56:31] That he failed his wife to some degree

[00:56:32] You know that he left her

[00:56:33] That he abandoned her

[00:56:34] Yeah or that he would like his work consumed him

[00:56:37] That that was you know

[00:56:38] What of course led to his death

[00:56:40] Right and so he thinks he's dealing with this

[00:56:42] As an active relationship

[00:56:43] But really he needs to help her

[00:56:44] Come to some sort of sense of closure

[00:56:46] With him

[00:56:47] And the same way he needs to help another kid

[00:56:49] You know

[00:56:50] Yeah

[00:56:51] But also the kid needs to help him

[00:56:52] That's the kid's like

[00:56:53] Salvation

[00:56:54] Is helping these ghosts

[00:56:55] Rather than being scared by them

[00:56:56] Now the movie's divisive

[00:56:57] Because it has to set up these shots

[00:56:59] And frame these things

[00:57:00] I mean the blocking in the film

[00:57:01] Is pretty incredible

[00:57:02] Because if you watch it with the eyes

[00:57:03] It's specific

[00:57:04] The shot of him sitting in the room with Tony Collette

[00:57:06] Is so ingenious

[00:57:07] Right

[00:57:08] Yeah it makes you think

[00:57:09] It makes you assume all of these things

[00:57:10] And uses movie logic

[00:57:11] It uses you putting together

[00:57:12] Like they've already had a conversation

[00:57:14] Exactly because you know how movies work with editing

[00:57:16] That you're not seeing everything play out

[00:57:17] In that way

[00:57:18] But the logic that really bugged me

[00:57:19] How does he know all this shit that's happening

[00:57:21] How does he know that Haley Jolosman

[00:57:22] Got in trouble in school

[00:57:23] How does he know to keep showing up with stuff

[00:57:25] That's all fair

[00:57:26] I agree

[00:57:27] You just kind of have to roll with that

[00:57:28] Yeah you do

[00:57:29] And it's fine

[00:57:30] I still like the movie

[00:57:31] But I did get thinking like

[00:57:32] I'm telling him yes

[00:57:33] I do love the idea that the first time he sees Haley Jolosman

[00:57:35] Is like in the church where he's playing with the little toys

[00:57:37] Love that scene

[00:57:38] Great scene

[00:57:39] Yeah good merchandise

[00:57:40] It's called improv

[00:57:41] And Haley Jolosman

[00:57:42] Especially when you're watching it

[00:57:43] In recognition of the twist

[00:57:44] Is like

[00:57:45] Is treating him like

[00:57:46] Oh here's another one of these

[00:57:47] Yeah yeah yeah

[00:57:48] You know like

[00:57:49] They won't leave me alone

[00:57:50] You know that's why he still stands off

[00:57:52] But of course you're just like

[00:57:53] Oh kids don't like to talk to shrinks

[00:57:54] Like that's all it is

[00:57:55] The real reason

[00:57:57] You know I think

[00:57:58] A doesn't really put Shyamalan on the map

[00:58:00] And I think that's such a big way

[00:58:01] And B the movie did so well

[00:58:03] Was I very distinctly remember

[00:58:04] Being a movie that everyone needed to see two times

[00:58:07] Like even if you didn't like it

[00:58:08] You just wanted to see it again

[00:58:09] To see like

[00:58:10] Oh he's wearing the same clothes the whole time

[00:58:12] Yeah yeah yeah

[00:58:13] All the things to see

[00:58:14] Which I didn't even notice

[00:58:15] Until the very end this time

[00:58:16] So good

[00:58:17] And then he realized

[00:58:18] Like right of course

[00:58:19] He's like bleeding

[00:58:20] Like from the back of his back

[00:58:21] But in your memory

[00:58:22] You go like

[00:58:23] No but I saw him talking to the mom

[00:58:24] And it's like no you didn't

[00:58:25] You saw him sitting in the room with the mom

[00:58:27] Yeah

[00:58:28] Logically I think the film's asking us

[00:58:29] Like he as a ghost just appears the second

[00:58:31] Right before Haley Jalazman walks in the door

[00:58:33] You know

[00:58:34] The mom's not sitting there in silence for a long time

[00:58:36] And he kind of puts it together

[00:58:38] With the way that we do it ahead

[00:58:39] Being like oh no I had that conversation with her

[00:58:41] Cause you don't see him really traveling to places

[00:58:43] I think he's just showing us where he needs to show off

[00:58:45] He just walks around

[00:58:46] And of course I mean

[00:58:47] I think the toughest scene

[00:58:48] Is the restaurant scene

[00:58:49] Where he's with Olivia Williams

[00:58:50] Yeah

[00:58:51] And he's giving this whole monologue

[00:58:52] Like I'm sorry my work is so consuming

[00:58:53] And like I just really want to help this kid

[00:58:55] And she won't look at him

[00:58:56] She won't talk

[00:58:57] And then she just like

[00:58:58] Signs the check

[00:58:59] Like takes the check

[00:59:00] Which is great

[00:59:01] Cause he reaches for it

[00:59:02] Signs this is like happy anniversary

[00:59:04] But even like

[00:59:05] A little touch

[00:59:06] But they do it well

[00:59:07] A little touch that's so smart in that scene

[00:59:09] Cause I kept on looking for like

[00:59:10] Okay I haven't seen this movie

[00:59:11] I probably saw it three times when it came out

[00:59:13] I haven't seen it since then

[00:59:14] I want to fucking catch him

[00:59:16] Like I want to catch a little thing

[00:59:18] That he fucked up on

[00:59:19] And I looked even in that dinner scene

[00:59:21] And I was like where are they gonna do it at the chair

[00:59:22] How do they deal with the chair

[00:59:23] And the chair is just pulled out enough

[00:59:25] For him to slide into it

[00:59:26] That he puts his hand on it like he's gonna pull it out

[00:59:28] And then just sits on top of it

[00:59:30] And it's like oh shit

[00:59:31] He never moves the stuff around him

[00:59:33] That I did not notice that too

[00:59:35] Bruce Willis never moves anything

[00:59:37] But he has papers

[00:59:38] Like he's holding papers

[00:59:39] But they're like paper

[00:59:40] But there is

[00:59:41] And the dictionary and the basement

[00:59:42] They're all his

[00:59:43] They're all his business

[00:59:44] He's not moving anything that anyone else interacts

[00:59:46] But I also think

[00:59:47] I mean they're asking you

[00:59:48] We supposed to just like sit on chairs

[00:59:49] It'd be funny if you like fell through

[00:59:50] Oopsie I'm a ghost

[00:59:52] They're asking me to put this together

[00:59:54] But I think the reason you're supposed to believe

[00:59:56] That Olivia Williams put the table

[00:59:58] In front of the cellar door

[01:00:00] Is because she kept on going into the cellar

[01:00:01] And seeing all the shit splayed out

[01:00:03] Right

[01:00:04] You know

[01:00:05] Like someone's fucking

[01:00:06] Something's going on in the cellar

[01:00:07] And it's foreshadowed with that scene

[01:00:08] Right at the first shot of the movie

[01:00:09] Where she goes to get the bottle of wine

[01:00:10] And like the cellar creeps her out

[01:00:12] Because cellars are creepy

[01:00:14] And there's the wind

[01:00:15] She gets pulled

[01:00:16] I don't know if you have a cellar

[01:00:17] You have a basement

[01:00:18] I have a cellar

[01:00:19] It is the scariest fucking thing in the world

[01:00:21] And I have to go down there all the time

[01:00:23] I agree with you Katie

[01:00:24] Katie's making a personal

[01:00:25] This is a personal story

[01:00:27] This is the corner

[01:00:28] The one logic thing

[01:00:30] That sort of like was a hiccup for me

[01:00:32] Is how in his mind did he get assigned

[01:00:35] Yeah

[01:00:36] This case

[01:00:37] How did he know this kid

[01:00:38] This wasn't a kid

[01:00:39] But that's how Haley Jollosman works

[01:00:40] The ghosts come to him

[01:00:41] Like Heisha Barton as he says

[01:00:42] Like she came a long way to see me

[01:00:44] Yes

[01:00:45] The papers, the information

[01:00:46] I thought he had an appointment

[01:00:47] With Haley Jollosman

[01:00:48] Well he

[01:00:49] He says that

[01:00:50] He says that

[01:00:51] I missed her appointment

[01:00:52] Haley Jollosman's probably just like

[01:00:53] Uh huh

[01:00:54] You and the Civil War general

[01:00:56] Yeah

[01:00:57] I kind of wondered if it was like

[01:00:58] Someone he'd had before he died

[01:00:59] But I think it does make more sense

[01:01:00] That he's telling himself these stories

[01:01:02] Kind of what we're doing for ourselves now

[01:01:04] Like he seemed to get together

[01:01:05] Cause like the kid with the shotgun

[01:01:07] Wound in the back of his head

[01:01:09] He wants to see my dad's gun

[01:01:10] He's not like, oh hey nice to meet you

[01:01:12] He sort of acts like this is already

[01:01:14] His friend who he would have found

[01:01:15] Yeah

[01:01:16] And Meisha Barton's line

[01:01:17] Is I'm feeling much better now

[01:01:18] Which is like her

[01:01:19] It's good

[01:01:20] You want to talk about Meisha Barton?

[01:01:21] Let's talk about Meisha Barton

[01:01:22] I think we have to talk about Bruce a little more

[01:01:23] Oh he's great

[01:01:24] I mean, it's just

[01:01:25] Oh oh I know

[01:01:26] I want to point out the thing that Katie said

[01:01:28] Cause the one logic kick up for me

[01:01:30] Is with the papers and everything

[01:01:32] It does feel a little bit to me like

[01:01:35] Not explicitly but it's

[01:01:37] This is also coming a week after watching Wide Awake

[01:01:39] Where the twist ending is

[01:01:40] The kid's trying to speak to his dead grandfather

[01:01:42] And so he misses his dead grandfather

[01:01:44] Again

[01:01:45] I can say this very quickly

[01:01:46] He misses his dead grandfather

[01:01:48] So he's like I'm gonna find God

[01:01:49] And the whole movie he's looking for God

[01:01:51] In whatever form

[01:01:52] And there's this little Sherubic blonde boy

[01:01:54] Walking around at the end of the movie

[01:01:55] He's like he's happy

[01:01:56] And it's an angel from heaven

[01:01:57] Who's come down to Tom that his dad

[01:01:59] And realizes God exists

[01:02:00] And the kid disappears into a beautiful blonde

[01:02:02] Carry on

[01:02:03] My point is

[01:02:04] Especially coming right after this movie

[01:02:05] It does feel a little bit like

[01:02:07] Oh did God assign him this case?

[01:02:09] Like did he get God papers?

[01:02:10] Not that God literally was like

[01:02:11] Hey Dr. Malcolm

[01:02:13] He makes movies about religion

[01:02:14] And spirituality and death

[01:02:15] And you know

[01:02:16] Yeah

[01:02:17] This is kind of one of those movies

[01:02:18] It's just more of a genre version of that

[01:02:21] Rather than Wide Awake

[01:02:22] Which is like actually about a kid

[01:02:23] Like talking to priests all day

[01:02:25] And you're like this kid's a weirdo

[01:02:26] Can't he just go outside?

[01:02:28] Bruce Willis' performance is very interesting

[01:02:30] Because it's very reactive

[01:02:31] It's very quiet

[01:02:32] Right

[01:02:33] It's very tempered down

[01:02:35] And I think that because he can be a lazy

[01:02:37] And disconnected actor

[01:02:38] People kind of think

[01:02:39] Oh well that's not his movie

[01:02:41] But I think he is making a lot of choices

[01:02:43] In this movie

[01:02:44] It's not like

[01:02:45] I don't know what's a bad Bruce Willis movie

[01:02:47] Last Man Standing

[01:02:48] Yeah

[01:02:49] A good day to die hard

[01:02:50] Sure

[01:02:51] Cop out

[01:02:52] Cop out

[01:02:53] Where he's just like one of the lines

[01:02:54] Okay

[01:02:55] But it is

[01:02:57] You know

[01:02:58] Go ahead

[01:02:59] Well it's interesting

[01:03:00] Because I think this is one of those performances

[01:03:02] That really serves as an interesting case study

[01:03:05] In what a movie star is

[01:03:07] And what the power of a movie star is

[01:03:09] Because it's like

[01:03:10] Okay he's not the first guy

[01:03:11] You would hire to play a child psychologist

[01:03:12] That's not like

[01:03:13] Sure

[01:03:14] Within his obvious real house

[01:03:15] You know

[01:03:16] That's fair right

[01:03:17] He's just playing against me

[01:03:18] He just was an oiled driller

[01:03:19] Who blew up a meteor

[01:03:20] Right

[01:03:21] Like yeah

[01:03:22] Right and like quiet, thoughtful listening

[01:03:23] Like it wasn't the Bruce Willis

[01:03:25] Not really

[01:03:26] Yeah his brand

[01:03:27] Like I would say his last great performance

[01:03:28] Had been 12 Monkeys

[01:03:29] Which is a very

[01:03:30] Acty performance

[01:03:32] A lot of twitching and mumbling

[01:03:34] I think it's a great performance

[01:03:35] And crying

[01:03:36] But you know

[01:03:37] Not a subdued performance

[01:03:38] He often wasn't playing intellectual

[01:03:39] No

[01:03:40] And there are some scenes in this movie

[01:03:41] Where you go like

[01:03:42] Okay this is a little outside of his comfort zone

[01:03:44] You've got this absurd hair piece

[01:03:45] In this movie

[01:03:46] Yeah

[01:03:47] That is like

[01:03:48] And this is prime like Bruce Willis

[01:03:49] Is a bald dude

[01:03:50] Like Ira

[01:03:51] So I watched it again

[01:03:52] In High Def last night

[01:03:53] Oh

[01:03:54] And I know people always talk about the hair piece

[01:03:55] This is my theory

[01:03:56] Just to very quickly throw out

[01:03:58] I think it's his real hair

[01:03:59] With a tremendous amount of dye in it

[01:04:01] When I say dye

[01:04:02] I mean like painting his scalp

[01:04:04] To make it look like there's more

[01:04:05] Sure

[01:04:06] It's like a comb over

[01:04:07] I think it's his strands

[01:04:08] And then they've painted

[01:04:09] Like a hairline on to it

[01:04:10] Well it looks bad

[01:04:11] Oh it looks terrible I agree

[01:04:12] But for years I thought it was a piece

[01:04:13] Of hair that I think it is

[01:04:14] A paint job

[01:04:15] Anyway

[01:04:16] Back to Bruce Willis

[01:04:17] Oh boy

[01:04:18] Bruce Willis' hair truth

[01:04:19] The thing is though

[01:04:20] You go like

[01:04:21] There are actors who are

[01:04:23] Would be a better fit

[01:04:25] For this role as a performance

[01:04:26] Sure

[01:04:27] But would have hurt the film overall

[01:04:29] Because it's such in a way

[01:04:30] A passive character

[01:04:32] You know

[01:04:33] He's such a reactive character

[01:04:34] He's so quiet

[01:04:35] He's so coiled

[01:04:36] That if someone was playing it

[01:04:38] Too intellectually

[01:04:39] It might be hard to engage with it

[01:04:41] And you have this guy Bruce Willis

[01:04:42] Who's just like

[01:04:43] Even when he's bad

[01:04:44] He's fucking engaging to walk

[01:04:46] He's just got a good head

[01:04:47] That looks good in a frame

[01:04:49] You know

[01:04:50] He's got a good energy

[01:04:51] Even when he's tired

[01:04:52] You're like fucking

[01:04:53] You get angry at lazy Bruce Willis performances

[01:04:54] Because he's so naturally engaging

[01:04:56] That it feels wasteful for him

[01:04:57] To do nothing other than show up

[01:04:59] Yeah

[01:05:00] Because he doesn't have to do that much more

[01:05:01] Right

[01:05:02] And it is crazy how

[01:05:03] He's such a fucking charming performer

[01:05:04] When he wants to be

[01:05:05] But he's charming down the term

[01:05:06] In this one

[01:05:07] No I know

[01:05:08] This isn't the movie for that

[01:05:09] So the point is

[01:05:10] No I think his interesting is

[01:05:11] He's so naturally charming

[01:05:12] That even though he's playing someone

[01:05:13] Who isn't charming

[01:05:14] He's tampering that down

[01:05:15] It comes out enough to keep you engaged

[01:05:16] In the movie

[01:05:17] To use him as a surrogate

[01:05:18] To watch these other characters

[01:05:19] And how they interact

[01:05:20] Sure

[01:05:21] And I think the film

[01:05:22] Even though it's not necessarily

[01:05:23] Like a great performance

[01:05:24] You didn't get an Oscar nomination

[01:05:26] That year

[01:05:27] You know he was sort of like underrated

[01:05:28] For it

[01:05:29] Yeah

[01:05:30] He's sort of the key

[01:05:31] To the movie working

[01:05:32] Tony Colette's the key

[01:05:33] To like the movie working

[01:05:34] She's the key to the emotional part

[01:05:35] Of it

[01:05:36] But I think Bruce Willis is the key

[01:05:37] To the film functioning with an audience

[01:05:39] It's a tough year

[01:05:40] He was never going to get an Oscar nomination

[01:05:41] That's a really

[01:05:42] That's a loaded year

[01:05:43] Okay

[01:05:44] Next topic we're going to talk about

[01:05:45] So the movie is like 50 minutes of build up

[01:05:46] Then there's this revelation

[01:05:48] From Haley Jollozna

[01:05:49] Which it turns on

[01:05:50] It's crazy to me that

[01:05:51] I see dead people was in the ads

[01:05:52] In front of the very beginning

[01:05:53] And then no one got impatient

[01:05:55] That you're watching it being like

[01:05:56] You know that he sees dead people

[01:05:58] But yet you're kind of like

[01:05:59] Oh

[01:06:00] How am I going to figure this out

[01:06:01] On my own

[01:06:02] And also I think it's because

[01:06:03] The movie has its fun sort of internal logic

[01:06:04] Which you enjoy watching

[01:06:05] Like slowly build

[01:06:06] Where it's like

[01:06:07] What can they do

[01:06:08] What are they doing

[01:06:09] I also feel like you're in the hands of a master

[01:06:10] I mean it's the

[01:06:11] What are they doing

[01:06:12] I know that sounds insane

[01:06:13] But like the

[01:06:14] What are they doing

[01:06:15] Where is this going thing

[01:06:16] Yeah

[01:06:17] Comes from like

[01:06:18] I think audience can tell

[01:06:19] When a movie is being made by someone

[01:06:20] Who's so confident

[01:06:21] And this is what I'm saying

[01:06:22] This is how I'm saying it

[01:06:23] Just trust me stick with it

[01:06:24] They don't get impatient

[01:06:25] Because they can tell

[01:06:26] It's going somewhere

[01:06:27] Building to something

[01:06:28] Yeah

[01:06:29] Even there is that moment

[01:06:30] Where she's looking at the photos

[01:06:32] Oh yeah

[01:06:33] And there's the little

[01:06:34] Like flashes of light

[01:06:35] Yeah

[01:06:36] It's like

[01:06:37] I think little subtle moments

[01:06:38] Like that

[01:06:39] Like building up to it

[01:06:40] That keeps me in

[01:06:41] Yeah because you're like

[01:06:42] I know

[01:06:43] And that seems scary

[01:06:44] Because you keep being like

[01:06:45] Is something going to be behind her

[01:06:46] Is she going to see something

[01:06:47] You know is this going to be a jump movie

[01:06:48] Where like

[01:06:49] Oh yeah

[01:06:50] Because she's like

[01:06:51] Leaning way into the photos

[01:06:53] And like classic horror movies

[01:06:54] Like you're not watching your ankles

[01:06:56] Or like a face would show up

[01:06:58] In the flash

[01:06:59] Absolutely

[01:07:00] I mean that is like

[01:07:01] A blum house thing

[01:07:02] Would just be like

[01:07:03] You know suddenly

[01:07:04] But he builds such an incredible atmosphere

[01:07:06] In this movie

[01:07:07] Between the photography

[01:07:08] Between the performances

[01:07:09] Huge

[01:07:10] The framing

[01:07:11] The score

[01:07:12] James you know how it scores

[01:07:13] Very nice score

[01:07:14] So you go into every scene

[01:07:15] A

[01:07:16] Every scene I would argue is

[01:07:18] Dramatically engaging on its own

[01:07:19] There's an interesting

[01:07:20] Sort of psychological tension

[01:07:22] Or a performance thing

[01:07:23] Or character detail

[01:07:24] Even when there's not a ghost

[01:07:25] There's no information being revealed

[01:07:27] And it's actually like

[01:07:28] An engaging scene to watch

[01:07:29] You've got these two relationships

[01:07:30] At the center of Haley Jollisman

[01:07:31] And his mom

[01:07:32] And her school is that

[01:07:33] You want to see, succeed

[01:07:34] You want to like

[01:07:35] Watch those relationships

[01:07:36] And build or something

[01:07:37] So you're following that

[01:07:38] As the ghost story is going on parallel

[01:07:40] Right

[01:07:41] It works as like a character story

[01:07:42] Just as well as it works

[01:07:43] As a ghost story

[01:07:44] But they also

[01:07:45] You go like

[01:07:46] Anything could be a ghost scene

[01:07:47] So you're just scared

[01:07:48] The whole movie

[01:07:49] You're scared the whole movie

[01:07:50] But as I was just laying out

[01:07:51] So then there's this revelation

[01:07:52] And then you start seeing the ghosts

[01:07:54] And there's lots of crazy

[01:07:55] Like as we said

[01:07:56] The kid with the blue half

[01:07:58] The mom in the kitchen

[01:07:59] The mom in the kitchen

[01:08:00] The um

[01:08:01] That he thinks is his mom

[01:08:02] It's so scary

[01:08:03] That's a really scary scene

[01:08:04] And it's also not played

[01:08:05] It's like a simple jump

[01:08:06] Like you know

[01:08:07] There's no like

[01:08:08] You know shrieking violin

[01:08:09] Or whatever

[01:08:10] They do the thing with the thermostat

[01:08:11] Going down while he's peeing

[01:08:12] And I remember going to the

[01:08:13] Backroom shortly after that

[01:08:14] In the movie and being terrified

[01:08:16] Like standing out of the urinal

[01:08:17] Peeing and being terrified

[01:08:19] Wanting to run back upstairs

[01:08:20] There's the hanging people in the school

[01:08:22] Right

[01:08:23] But anyway

[01:08:24] I mean then the movie has

[01:08:25] One set piece

[01:08:26] Which is him

[01:08:27] Solving this murder mystery

[01:08:28] Almost

[01:08:29] About the Misha Barton ghost

[01:08:30] Bruce Willis suggests

[01:08:31] That maybe

[01:08:32] You should help them

[01:08:33] Right

[01:08:34] And they're scared to scare you

[01:08:35] Interact with them

[01:08:36] See what they're there for

[01:08:37] They must be talking to you

[01:08:38] For a reason

[01:08:39] And then of course

[01:08:40] The next ghost he meets

[01:08:41] Is a little girl

[01:08:42] Who's played by Misha Barton

[01:08:43] And she

[01:08:44] The best performer

[01:08:45] And she throws up a lot

[01:08:46] Seems like she throws a lot

[01:08:47] It's also a puking

[01:08:48] There's a weird logic

[01:08:49] Because I always assume

[01:08:50] That his tent was some sort

[01:08:51] Of safe space he created

[01:08:52] But she somehow invades it

[01:08:54] Well the tent's also red

[01:08:55] The tent is red

[01:08:56] So yeah

[01:08:57] So she invades it

[01:08:58] And yeah

[01:08:59] She's got like

[01:09:00] Bomb it just sort of

[01:09:01] Ruling out of her mouth

[01:09:02] It's a tough

[01:09:03] She's in the tent

[01:09:04] It's another one of those things

[01:09:05] Where he uses facial geography

[01:09:06] Yeah

[01:09:07] Like you don't know how that's possible

[01:09:08] You see the corner of the tent

[01:09:09] She's not there

[01:09:10] The clamor kind of comes up

[01:09:11] And it opens up

[01:09:12] And when he goes back down

[01:09:13] She's in the spot

[01:09:14] That was previously empty

[01:09:15] But he does it all

[01:09:16] With camera moves

[01:09:17] And then so

[01:09:18] And like

[01:09:19] What I like about the movie

[01:09:20] Is it does not go anywhere

[01:09:22] Into explaining

[01:09:23] Like how this works

[01:09:24] Does he talk to her

[01:09:25] And say like hey where do you live

[01:09:26] No no no

[01:09:27] Or like what's your

[01:09:28] We just hurt him

[01:09:29] He just gets on a bus

[01:09:30] He's like it's a spiritual thing

[01:09:32] He's just sort of guided to her funeral

[01:09:34] I think he says like

[01:09:35] Do you husband

[01:09:36] You want to talk about something

[01:09:37] Right he gives her

[01:09:38] Like yeah

[01:09:39] An opportunity to talk

[01:09:40] All you need to know is that

[01:09:41] He doesn't run

[01:09:42] That he doesn't scream

[01:09:43] That he sits there with her

[01:09:44] And tries to engage with her

[01:09:45] And you see that emotional shift

[01:09:46] In him

[01:09:47] And then yeah

[01:09:48] It cuts to the bus

[01:09:49] And so then you're on the bus

[01:09:50] And then you're at the funeral

[01:09:51] And then there's this

[01:09:52] Like and like

[01:09:53] This is the thing

[01:09:54] It's like you think

[01:09:55] You know the movie has this

[01:09:56] Not fake out

[01:09:57] But you know

[01:09:58] The characters might assume

[01:09:59] Tony Colette is like

[01:10:00] Herding our kid

[01:10:01] And the twist is

[01:10:02] For this kid is that she was getting hurt

[01:10:03] It's a

[01:10:04] What do you call it

[01:10:05] Munchausen by proxy

[01:10:06] The mom was keeping her sick

[01:10:07] Which is like

[01:10:08] Just a fucked up thing

[01:10:09] That like once in a while happens

[01:10:10] Like it's just like a crazy

[01:10:11] Like post part of the thing

[01:10:12] But it happened

[01:10:13] Yes it does happen

[01:10:14] I for whatever reason

[01:10:15] I remember seeing it

[01:10:16] At the time thinking it was

[01:10:17] A step mom

[01:10:18] But there's nothing to imply

[01:10:19] That it was a film

[01:10:20] I don't always remember

[01:10:21] Being the step mom

[01:10:22] For some reason

[01:10:23] And I'll say like

[01:10:24] Shyamalan

[01:10:25] Like I said before

[01:10:26] This movie is haunted

[01:10:27] Like this movie every

[01:10:28] Like there's a sort of

[01:10:29] Weird glacial quality

[01:10:30] Where everyone

[01:10:31] Like the father

[01:10:33] Like looks at the mother

[01:10:34] And she just sort of turns around

[01:10:35] Silently and everyone's

[01:10:36] Just sort of staring

[01:10:38] And like this is a problem

[01:10:39] In his future movies

[01:10:40] We'll get to it

[01:10:41] Where I like sometimes

[01:10:42] I think he's trouble with

[01:10:43] Like the simple like

[01:10:44] Human stockage

[01:10:45] Like a person

[01:10:46] Yeah cause dad is watching

[01:10:47] That tape in the middle

[01:10:48] Of like a wake

[01:10:49] It's completely bizarre

[01:10:50] And like the tape

[01:10:51] Is in a box

[01:10:52] Like you know

[01:10:53] And of course there's

[01:10:54] That jump with the box

[01:10:55] Like you know her hand

[01:10:56] Coming out

[01:10:57] But isn't it fascinating

[01:10:58] That if the thing

[01:10:59] A person like

[01:11:00] That he's like

[01:11:01] And I'm like

[01:11:03] I think he's just

[01:11:04] Like

[01:11:05] The way he talks

[01:11:06] And like

[01:11:07] He knows his basic

[01:11:08] Human conversation

[01:11:09] He made a movie about

[01:11:10] People who can't really

[01:11:11] Talk to each other

[01:11:12] No that's why it works

[01:11:13] I mean this is why

[01:11:14] Such a good sequel

[01:11:15] To George Lucas

[01:11:16] Because it's also

[01:11:17] George Lucas

[01:11:18] But anyway

[01:11:19] What's crazy

[01:11:20] Is then

[01:11:21] I was talking to

[01:11:22] This about with

[01:11:23] Birthday Benny

[01:11:24] Is like

[01:11:25] You would think

[01:11:26] Maybe cause

[01:11:27] The movie is not

[01:11:28] And then he talks to his mom in the car about her mom.

[01:11:31] But first he does the school play.

[01:11:32] He does the school play.

[01:11:33] And he has his class conversation with Frisbo.

[01:11:34] And my favorite moment of the entire film is...

[01:11:35] Trevor Howard gets up stage.

[01:11:36] He gets on stage, you hear three claps in the background.

[01:11:39] Trevor Morgan.

[01:11:40] You hear three claps in the background and it's like, oh this kid, this is the kid

[01:11:42] from the cops who have come over to the film.

[01:11:45] And then he hates, he can't even come into the performance because he hates that

[01:11:48] he has a one line character.

[01:11:49] Like why is he the villain, Judea?

[01:11:50] Why has it worked out?

[01:11:51] We don't know.

[01:11:52] It's just everything's coming up Haley and the last man.

[01:11:53] I think it's one of those things we think maybe the school like is like,

[01:11:55] hey, why don't we give...

[01:11:58] Why don't we give him the lead in the play?

[01:11:59] Come on.

[01:12:00] You're already in a cough commercial.

[01:12:01] Yeah.

[01:12:02] Oh, it made me think.

[01:12:03] We passed this a while back.

[01:12:05] I just want to say I really enjoyed the part where he...

[01:12:09] Because there's the stuttering teacher that gets him the part when he gives the

[01:12:12] standing teacher.

[01:12:13] Oh, that's such a scary teacher.

[01:12:14] It's so scary and fucked up and great.

[01:12:16] Like an adult that's intimidated by this little kid and it's like, I totally

[01:12:20] believe it.

[01:12:21] Yeah.

[01:12:22] But that's also why it's more realistic than wide awake because all the adults

[01:12:25] in wide awake could be like...

[01:12:26] Stop fucking bringing up fucking adults!

[01:12:27] ...would be like, shut the fuck up, kid.

[01:12:29] No, of course.

[01:12:30] And then wide awake they're all charmed by him.

[01:12:31] No, except for Dennis Leary who is like, why have I given birth to you?

[01:12:34] Except me didn't give birth to you.

[01:12:35] Why did it...

[01:12:36] No, what he's really doing is why did I sign on to this movie?

[01:12:39] Anyway, so but that it's like it wraps fast.

[01:12:42] Yeah.

[01:12:43] Like there's that scene and then there's the scene with his mom which is wonderfully

[01:12:46] acted.

[01:12:47] Oh my God.

[01:12:48] That's her...

[01:12:49] Which I believe was her Oscar clip.

[01:12:50] That's her Oscar clip.

[01:12:51] And like it's classic Oscar clip but it's also so great.

[01:12:53] It's so well done.

[01:12:54] I don't even think about it right now.

[01:12:56] She really just...

[01:12:57] I know.

[01:12:58] Because she's like...

[01:12:59] The way she says what her question was is like, do I make you proud?

[01:13:01] It's so good.

[01:13:02] Yeah.

[01:13:03] And her hand work.

[01:13:04] I know!

[01:13:05] She's doing a little bit of the Linda Richmond like the acrylic nails and the hand on

[01:13:08] the breast.

[01:13:09] She's a little overflimmed.

[01:13:10] But it's like so subtly done.

[01:13:11] Comedian John Early, I don't know if you guys know John Early but he's a great

[01:13:14] comedian in New York City.

[01:13:15] He often ends or middles his stand ups sets with talking about how angry he is

[01:13:20] that Tonya Collette didn't win Best Supporting Actions.

[01:13:22] She lost to...

[01:13:23] 1999.

[01:13:24] It's a real weird one.

[01:13:27] Oh, Marcia Gay Harden for Pollock?

[01:13:29] That's the next year.

[01:13:30] Shit.

[01:13:31] And she's a leading actress.

[01:13:32] Angel Angel Lee for Girl Interaction.

[01:13:33] Ah yeah.

[01:13:34] Bingo.

[01:13:35] This is why I always try to go through what was known as her best picture and then

[01:13:37] always get spelled.

[01:13:38] I actually like in the film although I think it's a very sort of showy movie

[01:13:42] star performance but the other nominees were Tony Collette, Katherine Keener and

[01:13:45] being Jim Alcox who was crazy good.

[01:13:47] Yeah.

[01:13:48] Samantha Morton in Sweet and Low Down and Chloe Sivini in Boys Don't Cry.

[01:13:51] Every other one of her could have won that Oscar.

[01:13:54] That's a solid lineup.

[01:13:55] True.

[01:13:56] Really good year.

[01:13:57] True.

[01:13:58] And there's probably some other ones like, you know, I thought it was just a hot year,

[01:14:00] baby.

[01:14:01] Yeah.

[01:14:02] I mean, Malora Walters I would have nominated for Magnolia that year.

[01:14:05] She's good at Magnolia.

[01:14:06] I mean...

[01:14:07] I really liked that one.

[01:14:08] I mean, at least you're not saying Julianne Moore in Magnolia.

[01:14:10] Like her worst performance.

[01:14:12] Yeah.

[01:14:13] Which is, you know...

[01:14:14] You see freehold?

[01:14:15] I didn't see freehold actually on your advice.

[01:14:18] So let's, I mean we've talked about the twist but let's talk about the impact

[01:14:21] of the twist and everything.

[01:14:22] Right.

[01:14:23] And then the last three minute minutes are just the twist.

[01:14:25] And it is so artfully done.

[01:14:26] And he puts it together on the tiniest thing which I totally forgotten which is that she

[01:14:29] has his wedding ring.

[01:14:30] And he hasn't noticed the whole time.

[01:14:32] And we haven't noticed that he's not wearing his wedding ring.

[01:14:35] And guys, it really gets me when she says, I miss you.

[01:14:38] Yeah.

[01:14:39] Well, Haley Joelson, yeah, he says the thing of like, I have an idea you should

[01:14:42] talk to her while she's asleep.

[01:14:43] Yeah while she's sleeping.

[01:14:44] Which re-watching the scene now it's so brilliant because it's him knowing that

[01:14:48] Bruce Wallace is a ghost.

[01:14:49] Yeah.

[01:14:50] And he's like, I don't want to spoil it for him.

[01:14:53] Well, it's very clear like-

[01:14:54] Because he wouldn't, we're supposed to invite a Haley Joelson to hold him.

[01:14:57] It's obvious that Haley Joelson has figured out that he can't just say to the ghost

[01:15:00] like, you are a ghost.

[01:15:01] But that doesn't work for some reason.

[01:15:03] So he's got to be like engaged with him on a human level.

[01:15:05] Right.

[01:15:06] So he says, right, talk to her while she's sleeping then she'll hear you

[01:15:08] even if she can't hear you.

[01:15:09] Yeah.

[01:15:10] You know, like yeah, guys, guys it gets me.

[01:15:12] She's just trying to get over him.

[01:15:14] Yeah.

[01:15:15] You know?

[01:15:16] She's just trying to get with Glen Fitzgerald or whoever it is who plays

[01:15:18] and he calls them like Dick Weed or I forget what he's-

[01:15:21] Cheese Dick or something.

[01:15:22] He calls him Cheese Dick.

[01:15:23] Keep moving, Cheese Dick.

[01:15:25] He seems like a good sort.

[01:15:26] I hope she's happy with him now.

[01:15:27] Yeah, I do too.

[01:15:28] I'm feeling antique in Philadelphia.

[01:15:29] Now this is, I mean, you know, it's the blessing and the curse of the rest of

[01:15:34] Shyamalan's career is that rarely is there a movie with a twist this

[01:15:38] affected, right?

[01:15:39] Well, I mean the thing is the usual suspects have come out four years

[01:15:42] before which is a similar movie that like builds its twist case the whole

[01:15:46] time.

[01:15:47] Yeah.

[01:15:48] And then like unleashes it in like a quick montage and you're like melting

[01:15:51] it like when you watch it.

[01:15:53] And but go ahead.

[01:15:54] I think personally, I mean, I don't know me personally.

[01:15:59] I thought of some like better endings.

[01:16:02] Oh, great.

[01:16:03] Okay.

[01:16:04] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:16:05] I just feel like it didn't do what I wanted.

[01:16:08] What do you want?

[01:16:09] Now, Katie, I know your listener the podcast, Ben has previously come

[01:16:11] up with Star Wars characters.

[01:16:12] He constantly thinks he can do better than the filmmakers that we're

[01:16:15] studying.

[01:16:16] Ben's twist corner.

[01:16:17] He's got a legal pad that is like it's like the legal pad where

[01:16:20] Haley Jolliesman wrote like kill fuck.

[01:16:22] Shut the baby up.

[01:16:24] It's all red ink.

[01:16:25] The thermostat just went down in the room.

[01:16:27] Ben's got to read his twist corner.

[01:16:28] Here's Ben's.

[01:16:29] All right.

[01:16:30] Twist corner.

[01:16:31] Okay, so Bruce Willis, right?

[01:16:32] You have the blackout open up on this epilogue, right?

[01:16:36] It's him in the future haunting a family.

[01:16:39] So it's just he can't leave that house.

[01:16:41] His business is finished.

[01:16:42] Like he the whole thing is that he got closer.

[01:16:44] This is a double twist.

[01:16:45] This is a double twist that actually turns back to the horror.

[01:16:48] What he really was that he had left like the iron on.

[01:16:51] He just needs to turn the iron off or whatever.

[01:16:53] It turns back to the horror thing.

[01:16:55] Okay, that's twist one.

[01:16:57] Okay, Bruce puts on sunglasses and music plays.

[01:17:00] He just does like a two camera like not that'd be fun.

[01:17:04] That'd be a badass angel in heaven.

[01:17:05] That's the twist is that he's cool.

[01:17:07] He's not cool in movies.

[01:17:09] They're not all great.

[01:17:10] They're not all great.

[01:17:11] Okay, Bruce becomes a ghost detective with Haley Jollosman.

[01:17:15] They start a new business.

[01:17:17] That would be the TV spin-off.

[01:17:19] That would be Bruce Willis his career like tanks for some reason.

[01:17:22] And he like two years later he's like,

[01:17:23] All right, let's do a sixth sense TV show.

[01:17:25] Yeah, I'm sure someone at Disney tried to get that.

[01:17:27] Oh, we're six sense animated series.

[01:17:29] The new six sense adventures.

[01:17:31] The seven sense.

[01:17:32] He's got a nose for crime.

[01:17:35] All right, go on.

[01:17:36] Sorry.

[01:17:37] The seven senses justice.

[01:17:38] All right.

[01:17:39] That's better.

[01:17:41] Bruce later goes to eat and realizes he wasn't a ghost the whole time.

[01:17:47] Oh, it was a government conspiracy or an episode of punk.

[01:17:52] Oh, Haley Jollosman just punked him the whole time?

[01:17:55] Yeah.

[01:17:56] That's so far the only one of these that you've pitched is actually a twist.

[01:17:58] The other ones are just endings.

[01:18:00] I said they're epilogues possible endings.

[01:18:03] Okay, that is a twist.

[01:18:04] Okay, but here I got saved the best for last.

[01:18:06] I love them.

[01:18:07] I love them.

[01:18:08] Girls locker room.

[01:18:10] That's what you do with a ghost.

[01:18:11] So the twist is he just goes hollow, man.

[01:18:13] He tries to check out some naked ladies.

[01:18:16] Kevin Bacon famously made stir of echoes, which came out the same year.

[01:18:21] And it got fucked by the sixth sense because like it's the same movie.

[01:18:25] Stir of echoes is a good.

[01:18:26] Never say David Kep.

[01:18:28] David Kep movie.

[01:18:29] Yeah, before David Kep like, you know,

[01:18:32] not the real or it's an episode of punk.

[01:18:35] You already said that one, buddy.

[01:18:36] Just think about that.

[01:18:37] I think just think about it.

[01:18:38] I think one of the really important things about this film because

[01:18:41] Shyamalan spent the rest of his career chasing this film to one degree or another.

[01:18:44] I mean, this became, you know, the shadow that loom large over everything else he did

[01:18:47] and over the eyes perception and over anyone who wanted to make a movie with.

[01:18:50] Yes, or a ghost movie.

[01:18:52] Yeah, totally.

[01:18:53] Has there been a twist movie this effective since sixth sense?

[01:18:57] I mean, remember me?

[01:19:00] Oh my God.

[01:19:01] Well, because I don't know.

[01:19:02] It still has a very good.

[01:19:03] I don't know if it's not quite the same.

[01:19:06] It's not quite as calibrated to like it doesn't, you know, the movie works all because the movie

[01:19:10] has has another gimmick already before the twist.

[01:19:13] Yeah, I mean the prestige also has a twist.

[01:19:15] The prestige twist sucks and I think that movie's a masterpiece.

[01:19:18] But the worst thing about the prestige is where it's like, you never guess.

[01:19:21] And he was like, no, yeah, I knew who that guy was.

[01:19:24] Well, I would love to do a prestige episode because I love the prestige.

[01:19:27] I believe that that's not the twist.

[01:19:29] I think that's a fake out twist so you don't realize the real twist is the

[01:19:32] Japanese killing himself over and over, which is a great twist.

[01:19:34] Yeah, when you think about it longer and longer, you're like, oh my God.

[01:19:37] Yeah, I contend that the audience is supposed to figure out the Christian

[01:19:41] Bale thing.

[01:19:42] It's obvious.

[01:19:43] The movie is pretty high on it though.

[01:19:45] Michael Cain speech at the beginning about you look at this hand so you

[01:19:47] don't know this.

[01:19:48] Oh, and it gets to this.

[01:19:49] I mean, I'm a shaman is a really great magician.

[01:19:51] This is a magic trick movie making you look at the wrong things in the

[01:19:55] frame to not notice what's there the entire time.

[01:19:58] But, but and this is the thing that most twist movies fuck up on.

[01:20:01] The movie actually works as a movie.

[01:20:03] Yes.

[01:20:04] If you cut the ending with the movie ended with Bruce Willis and Haley

[01:20:08] Jawsman going see you tomorrow.

[01:20:10] Yeah, the film would work.

[01:20:11] You'd go where they didn't resolve the wife thing.

[01:20:13] Yeah, the movie would work.

[01:20:14] They'll figure it out.

[01:20:15] Yeah, the sequel.

[01:20:16] It would work as an emotional story.

[01:20:18] It would feel complete.

[01:20:19] Well, now you need to turn to Colette scene.

[01:20:21] Oh yes.

[01:20:22] I'm sorry.

[01:20:23] That would be the last scene.

[01:20:24] That would be the great last scene.

[01:20:25] And you'd be like, I don't know what that Donnie Wahlberg business

[01:20:28] was at the beginning, but you know whatever table setting.

[01:20:31] But the thing that happens with most twist movies is either

[01:20:33] the whole film's constructed towards the twist.

[01:20:36] So one is they come up with a twist that goes against

[01:20:39] what the movie's been up until that point so that the thing falls apart.

[01:20:41] Two is the whole movie's so clearly building up the twist

[01:20:44] that the rest of it doesn't work.

[01:20:45] Yep.

[01:20:46] Or once you know the twist, you can't watch it a second time

[01:20:48] because it has no value.

[01:20:49] Like matchstick man.

[01:20:50] Exactly.

[01:20:51] That's a good twist movie where once you've seen it,

[01:20:53] you're like, fuck that.

[01:20:54] Although it happens to remember me a second time.

[01:20:56] Did you know the twist?

[01:20:58] I don't think so because I saw it like in a junk screen or something.

[01:21:01] Do you know the second time it's Pearl Harbor?

[01:21:03] If you watch, remember me a second time it's Pearl Harbor in 9-11.

[01:21:06] It changes every time.

[01:21:07] It keeps going back and forth.

[01:21:08] This is taking Sandy for some reason.

[01:21:09] But I think this film works.

[01:21:11] He's shooting a Benghazi updated version now.

[01:21:13] It turns out the whole movie took place in Benghazi.

[01:21:16] I think two things happen.

[01:21:18] One is I think the internet made it impossible for a movie

[01:21:20] to be this twist reliant.

[01:21:22] I was just going to say, I feel like if I'm imagining this coming out now,

[01:21:25] I'm not sure I'm alone would be giving a Q&A,

[01:21:27] being like, well actually in the scene where he's sitting there with 20 flood,

[01:21:29] he's just shown up because that's how it,

[01:21:30] like he would be over explaining all of this stuff.

[01:21:32] And I also think Twitter would have immediately people going like,

[01:21:35] oh my god, fucking twist, it's crazy.

[01:21:37] And you'd all go into the movie trying to figure it out.

[01:21:39] So my only argument against that is Star Wars.

[01:21:41] I was literally about to say the same thing.

[01:21:43] People did a really good job of keeping all those twists,

[01:21:46] I mean not really twist but like,

[01:21:47] No, all the big things.

[01:21:49] Yeah, the one big thing that everyone talked about at the time.

[01:21:51] Everyone was chill.

[01:21:52] I don't want to spoil stories on this five guest for no reason.

[01:21:54] Everyone was pretty good about it.

[01:21:55] I'm just saying, I think even if someone on Twitter wrote,

[01:21:57] oh my god, you have to see Six Sands,

[01:22:00] ending is crazy,

[01:22:01] you'd walk into the theater going like,

[01:22:03] what's this fucking ending gonna be?

[01:22:04] Yeah, of course.

[01:22:05] You'd have so many people telling you that

[01:22:07] there's so many different outlets,

[01:22:08] even if like at the water cooler you were like,

[01:22:09] ending's pretty crazy.

[01:22:10] You'd be like, okay, Tony from work told me that.

[01:22:12] Oh yeah, but then like every movie blog,

[01:22:14] mine included would be telling you too.

[01:22:16] Right, and there would be the piece that you wouldn't click

[01:22:18] the link on until after you've seen the movie,

[01:22:20] but it'd be like explaining the Six Sands.

[01:22:22] You'd start reading one of those pieces and then it would be

[01:22:24] big bold like, now we're gonna talk about the ending

[01:22:26] and you'd be like, oh okay.

[01:22:27] Yeah, but then you'd be like, oh the ending,

[01:22:29] oh the ending.

[01:22:30] You know there's something you're avoiding.

[01:22:31] Yeah.

[01:22:32] And I also think that this made audiences so aware

[01:22:35] of twists in a way.

[01:22:36] Yeah.

[01:22:37] It was sort of like a watershed moment for twist movies.

[01:22:39] And we should, I'll do some,

[01:22:40] because I bet there are so many junky twist movies

[01:22:42] that followed this in the next few years.

[01:22:44] Yeah.

[01:22:45] Like movies they were just like,

[01:22:46] you gotta have a twist.

[01:22:47] Like this year, I just like,

[01:22:48] I can remember that.

[01:22:49] They love twists right now.

[01:22:50] There's that Robert De Niro, Dakota Fanning,

[01:22:52] horror movie Hide and Go See.

[01:22:53] Oh boy.

[01:22:54] Where at the end it turns out he's her imaginary friend,

[01:22:56] right?

[01:22:57] I mean it's like almost a direct ripoff of Six Sands,

[01:23:00] but the ending like doesn't click with the rest of the film.

[01:23:03] Oh good, good twist.

[01:23:04] Hide and Seek.

[01:23:05] Shutter Island.

[01:23:06] Love the twist of Shutter Island because I think

[01:23:08] Shutter Island is fucking masterpiece personally.

[01:23:10] Sorry.

[01:23:11] A little bit.

[01:23:12] And I think one of the reasons the twist works there

[01:23:14] as it does in this and as it does in these usual suspects

[01:23:16] is that you can then watch it a second time

[01:23:18] and be like, oh wow, like it gives the movie

[01:23:20] a whole new perspective.

[01:23:21] These guys are all performing.

[01:23:23] And you start to see the seams of it

[01:23:25] and you start to see the emotion

[01:23:27] and what they're trying to do for him.

[01:23:28] I love Shutter Island so much.

[01:23:30] He should have won an Oscar for that.

[01:23:32] Hockalypto, great twist ending.

[01:23:34] What happens at the end of Hockalypto?

[01:23:36] We slaughtered the Native Americans.

[01:23:37] Yeah.

[01:23:38] Didn't see that coming.

[01:23:39] Same twist as Pasha the Christ.

[01:23:41] Yeah, Pasha the Christ, whoa.

[01:23:43] I know.

[01:23:44] Now this was, I would say...

[01:23:46] Yeah, crucified.

[01:23:48] This was the other thing I was thinking about.

[01:23:50] Like I was thinking about what effect

[01:23:52] this has had on twist movies after that.

[01:23:54] And also this was at the time of its release

[01:23:56] one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time.

[01:23:58] What?

[01:23:59] Which is insane.

[01:24:00] Yeah, I think it was the 10th highest grossing film

[01:24:01] of all time at the time of its release.

[01:24:03] Which would never happen today.

[01:24:05] I'm not even saying this movie specifically

[01:24:07] because it feels so austere,

[01:24:09] austere and adult.

[01:24:11] Even like for 16, 17 years later.

[01:24:14] I did play well overseas, but like...

[01:24:17] But it wouldn't today.

[01:24:18] Audiences are just not ready to sit down

[01:24:20] and have to really engage with something this much

[01:24:22] that isn't feeding its video.

[01:24:23] I hate to be a bummer about this stuff,

[01:24:25] but it's true.

[01:24:26] But it feels like kind of the last of its kind.

[01:24:28] And I was like perfect.

[01:24:29] Primal fear, that has a crazy twist.

[01:24:31] Yeah, and never...

[01:24:32] So like all the movies...

[01:24:33] I'm looking at some famous twists.

[01:24:34] All the movies that were like that.

[01:24:35] Fight Club.

[01:24:36] Yeah.

[01:24:37] Same year?

[01:24:38] But a lot of these other movies were...

[01:24:39] 1999.

[01:24:40] No!

[01:24:41] A lot of these other movies were throwing out.

[01:24:43] Yes.

[01:24:44] Similar.

[01:24:45] Were not as successful.

[01:24:47] For sure.

[01:24:48] Sixth Sense was like huge and the twist

[01:24:50] captivated America as this performance.

[01:24:52] Everyone loved Bruce was back, all this shit.

[01:24:54] But I was like okay,

[01:24:55] this is a horror movie, it's a thriller.

[01:24:57] But it also kind of functions as a drama

[01:24:59] because it doesn't have these sneak scares.

[01:25:01] Absolutely.

[01:25:02] It's not super graphic,

[01:25:04] other than a few moments.

[01:25:05] So I was like what are...

[01:25:06] In that sort of tone,

[01:25:07] like truly adult non-franchise movies,

[01:25:10] what else has done that well in the last 16 years?

[01:25:13] Well the only other template for this

[01:25:14] was before is The Crying Game.

[01:25:16] Which was sold on its twist.

[01:25:17] Another great example.

[01:25:18] But it's a really different kind of movie.

[01:25:19] Yes.

[01:25:20] Yes.

[01:25:21] But in terms of being like a humongous

[01:25:23] like Hall of Fame blockbuster...

[01:25:24] Oh yeah.

[01:25:25] No, nothing.

[01:25:26] The only two movies I would throw out

[01:25:27] that I feel like performed financially

[01:25:28] in a similar way

[01:25:29] and became as much of a talking point

[01:25:31] for like a quote unquote adult movie

[01:25:34] were Passion of the Christ

[01:25:35] and American Sniper.

[01:25:37] Oh yeah, American Sniper.

[01:25:38] And both of them were movies

[01:25:39] that were politicized.

[01:25:40] Oh in Ted.

[01:25:41] Oh in Ted.

[01:25:42] Yeah, serious adult dramas.

[01:25:43] But you know those films people had to see

[01:25:45] because there was like a conversation.

[01:25:46] People wanted to weigh in

[01:25:48] and either defend it or hate it

[01:25:49] with both of those films.

[01:25:51] I don't think outside of a thing

[01:25:52] like stirring people

[01:25:54] into like an argument like that

[01:25:56] you could have a film connect

[01:25:57] this widely with people.

[01:25:59] Today I don't think it would ever happen again.

[01:26:01] Well and just like this...

[01:26:02] You never know buddy.

[01:26:03] You never know.

[01:26:04] This kind of adult drama

[01:26:06] like it gets in kind of conversation

[01:26:07] going into television now.

[01:26:08] Like this is breaking that down.

[01:26:09] Yes, it's very true.

[01:26:10] Like that's the same kind

[01:26:11] of phenomenon you're talking about.

[01:26:12] But this film is a great example

[01:26:14] for me of the difference

[01:26:15] between TV and film

[01:26:16] and I'm not gonna argue

[01:26:17] that one is better or worse than the other.

[01:26:18] Film is better.

[01:26:19] Movies are the best.

[01:26:20] Movies are the absolute best.

[01:26:21] I hate TV.

[01:26:22] But it's like this is...

[01:26:24] The key to this movie is that

[01:26:26] it's fucking like...

[01:26:28] It's like 102 minutes.

[01:26:29] You know what I'm saying?

[01:26:30] Like it's tight

[01:26:31] and it's one story

[01:26:32] and it does its thing

[01:26:33] and it gets out.

[01:26:34] But of course it was...

[01:26:35] Great job, Katie.

[01:26:36] It was the millstone

[01:26:38] it was the millstone around his neck

[01:26:39] as we're gonna see.

[01:26:40] Like it was the thing he couldn't escape

[01:26:41] where it's like oh he's the twist guy

[01:26:43] he's the horror guy

[01:26:44] and like you know...

[01:26:45] Right, it became the thing.

[01:26:46] He tries to play into it

[01:26:47] he tries to play away from it

[01:26:48] he doesn't know what to do with himself.

[01:26:49] I don't think he was

[01:26:50] a thriller guy in his mind.

[01:26:51] I think he was a guy

[01:26:52] who wanted to make populist films.

[01:26:54] I think he wanted to speak to audiences

[01:26:55] and I think he probably was like

[01:26:57] I'll make this and next

[01:26:58] I'll make a musical or whatever.

[01:26:59] He's not George Lucas.

[01:27:00] You're doing the George Lucas movie.

[01:27:01] Cause it's like this.

[01:27:02] It's like more Aziz Ansari.

[01:27:03] Oh boy.

[01:27:04] Oh boy.

[01:27:05] No, no, no.

[01:27:06] But that's...

[01:27:07] No wait I just realized

[01:27:08] that's a coincidence.

[01:27:09] Cause I've been working on my M night

[01:27:11] and I just realized

[01:27:12] that's a coincidence

[01:27:13] and I'm trying nothing.

[01:27:14] Now that I think about it

[01:27:15] he's got a high voice

[01:27:16] he's like kinda like...

[01:27:17] I mean he's in this movie.

[01:27:18] I know I gotta go back

[01:27:19] and watch that scene.

[01:27:20] He's a little monster.

[01:27:21] And he's the star praying with anger

[01:27:22] which we saw.

[01:27:23] Oh I didn't tell you that

[01:27:24] he's the star of it.

[01:27:25] He's alright.

[01:27:26] I feel really sad

[01:27:27] for this future of this podcast

[01:27:28] that you guys have been like

[01:27:29] so we talked about this movie

[01:27:30] that we all like

[01:27:31] and it's gonna be like

[01:27:32] then you're gonna get to

[01:27:33] you know,

[01:27:34] ask your vendor.

[01:27:35] You got to do the good one.

[01:27:36] I know.

[01:27:37] I mean Unbreakable is great.

[01:27:38] Is my favorite.

[01:27:39] I'm very looking forward

[01:27:40] to watching that.

[01:27:41] I'm psyched here.

[01:27:42] You talked about the Village

[01:27:43] which is what I so stand by.

[01:27:44] We gave this to you

[01:27:45] because you're a fan

[01:27:46] you've supported our podcast

[01:27:47] we had to give back

[01:27:48] The blankie who made it

[01:27:49] to the top.

[01:27:50] You're the warmest blankie

[01:27:51] we got.

[01:27:52] You gotta bundle under

[01:27:53] that blankie

[01:27:54] cause there goes surround

[01:27:55] I say.

[01:27:56] Oh boy oh boy.

[01:27:57] Yeah I think

[01:27:58] I don't think he thought

[01:27:59] he was a thriller director exclusively.

[01:28:01] Well we'll get to that.

[01:28:02] I think he thought he was

[01:28:03] a filmmaker.

[01:28:04] Let's wrap on the sixth sense.

[01:28:05] The moment the film ends

[01:28:06] you know

[01:28:07] the final conversation

[01:28:08] with the wife

[01:28:09] he puts it all together

[01:28:10] I'll admit embarrassingly

[01:28:11] I remember seeing this movie

[01:28:12] and not getting the twist at first.

[01:28:13] Good job.

[01:28:14] Congrats.

[01:28:15] I was like

[01:28:16] do you know what I thought it was?

[01:28:17] I thought it was

[01:28:18] that the whole film

[01:28:19] was his fantasy

[01:28:20] of what was happening

[01:28:21] while he was dying.

[01:28:22] That happens.

[01:28:23] Yeah.

[01:28:24] He flashes back to him dying

[01:28:25] which I was like

[01:28:26] okay that's not like

[01:28:27] that's not like him being like

[01:28:29] my side is still bloody

[01:28:31] you know where he

[01:28:32] That's why I thought the way

[01:28:33] it was shot against the wall

[01:28:34] I thought it was like

[01:28:35] he was still dying.

[01:28:36] I thought that's what it was

[01:28:37] I saw it with my dad

[01:28:38] my friend Malou's parents

[01:28:39] were in the theater

[01:28:40] at the same time

[01:28:41] so afterwards we like

[01:28:42] I think went out to dinner

[01:28:43] with them

[01:28:44] and she was like

[01:28:45] it's weird though

[01:28:46] because all the other ghosts

[01:28:47] looked so like

[01:28:48] like brrr

[01:28:49] and like Bruce Willis didn't

[01:28:50] and I was like

[01:28:51] oh Bruce Willis is a ghost

[01:28:52] pretend you know that

[01:28:53] the entire time

[01:28:54] and I was like