The Weight of Water with Karen Han and Emma Stefansky

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to express All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Talent excuses cruelty. Don't you know that?

[00:00:24] Not talent. Genius maybe. You're talented, Thomas. The world is full of talented podcasts. Pug-ass! Pug-ass! Pug-ass! I got a terrible line. It's bad. Talent excuses cruelty. That explains our dynamic. When I got to that dialogue exchange, I genuinely loosened my collar. Hello everybody, my name is Griffin Newman.

[00:00:50] I'm David Sims. Oh, you're just interested. Everyone's just talking. All right, great. Oh, I'm Emma Stefansky. We are, of course, hashtag the four friends. We are? Yeah. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's about filmographies.

[00:01:08] Directors who have had massive success early on in their career and have given a series of Blank checks to do whatever crazy paths are. Fucking hell. Jesus. Talent does not excuse cruelty. Whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce, baby.

[00:01:29] This is a major about the film's a Catherine Bigelow. He had a big smile. I gave him nothing when he said, baby. It's called Pod 19, The Widowcaster. And we've gotten to our centerpiece movie. Arguably the seminal Bigelow film.

[00:01:46] I think it's right in the middle. It might be the middle movie. You're saying equidistant within. Well, there's not a middle movie. She needs to make one more. She needs to make one more. This one's also weird because it was shot before

[00:02:01] Canine Teen The Widowmaker but comes out after Canine Teen The Widowmaker. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does. What? Yes. You mean like it debuted at a festival before, but it didn't actually get released until September of 2002. Great. That's always what you want out of a movie.

[00:02:19] Right. But that is weird. I mean, her biggest movie ever. Right. It came out the same. It took a very long time to shoot and finish and to post. It came out before this movie which just sat around for a couple of years.

[00:02:32] Yeah. And she just shot on a yacht. Yeah. And on an island. It's The Weight Of Water, of course. We all know this. It's The Weight Of Water, the movie that made us question whether or not to do Catherine Bigelow as amazing. Genuinely because I mean.

[00:02:47] The movie that asked the question, how much does water weigh? No, but listeners know we had been throwing her on Catherine Bigelow for a long time. We wanted to cover her, but it was always this thing of like,

[00:02:56] fucking no one's going to listen to Our Weight Of Water episode. Yeah. It will be the least listened to episode in history. Is it worth doing? I have a brief question. Have any of you guys, I know MNI had not seen his prior to this podcast.

[00:03:09] Had you guys seen it before? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Like this fine night. No one has ever seen this movie. No, this movie doesn't exist. This is a classic movie that doesn't exist. But we were debating how do we juice this episode out?

[00:03:22] Right? How do we give it some sort of internal intrigue? Make the episode compelling on its own. Thought about getting Snooki as a guest. That was briefly considered. You guys should have done that. It is not a joke. No. No, unfortunately not.

[00:03:42] There was a week of deliberating whether or not to have Snooki on this episode. Not that Snooki said yes to be clear. We were deliberating whether to ask Snooki to be on this episode. We hadn't in. We hadn't in because I don't know if listeners know this.

[00:03:55] We share something very, very important with Snooki. What's that? We both have this on you? No. That's a SNL callback. Remember that? Yeah, I got it. Yeah. We share producer. Yeah, we do. It's true. Yep. We share producer Ben. A producer Ben. A husband. A master. A tiebreaker.

[00:04:17] A birthday. A dirt bike. A meat lover. A fart detective. A fuck master. We do not share Professor Crispy. No, no, no. No, we don't. Are you Professor Crispy to her? No. You're never Professor Crispy. Are you any of those things to her? You are a producer.

[00:04:39] I'm her producer. I should know my name. But yeah, yeah, I'm a producer. Are you her Bendis? I mean, no, I... Wait, wait, don't go back to the start of the fucking... Are you her Shook and White Benny? Oh boy. No, I'm not.

[00:04:55] Let me ask you this though, okay? As an American. Because I know we're living in divided times. People can't agree on anything. Does she at least recognize that you've graduated to certain titles of the course of the Commendals series? She doesn't. No, she doesn't. Yeah.

[00:05:16] I know, but no, she doesn't. No. No. That's a bummer. That's okay. Anyway, this is our episode on the weight of water. We said how do we make this episode more interesting? Now I had thrown out on Twitter someone had asked at one point

[00:05:37] who would host Blank Check if not you guys. You mean like Bizarro Blank Check or whatever? Right, and I said like in terms of subs I feel like JD, Mato, Emily Achita and Richard Lawson are three most frequent guests. They're glass of ours. There are glass.

[00:05:56] But the more I thought about it I do feel like there's an alternate universe version. You need the dynamic. You can't just... I mean like those are all great folks but you need a sort of a push and pull. I mean, I think there's three folks as...

[00:06:10] If one of us were unable to do the show for a period of time maybe one of those three people would sub in with one of us. Whoever still remained. Yeah, because definitely it's going to be me who's going to be unable to do the show, not you.

[00:06:24] But I said there are two friends out there. Two friends who feel very parallel to us. They haven't put a hashtag on it but they are two friends. Well look, I mean, I'm not going to pull rank here but there's a certain level of seniority it takes.

[00:06:38] You know, maturity experience before you're willing to put a hashtag on it. This introduction out. What are we in a rush to get to? The weight of two parallel storylines. Infidelity, incest, a chair murder. Wait a second, but you're saying this is a movie about two parallel storylines

[00:06:58] and I'm presenting two... You're right, you're right. So are we the sort of refined... Who's the past and who's the... Yacht owning, I don't know what else do they do? We're the writers and these two are the... But you guys are also the previous iteration.

[00:07:15] So maybe we are like Sarah Polly and Vanessa Shaw. Right, that's my hope. I think I'm Polly your Shaw. Yeah, I'm pretty. She's so pretty. I'm pretty too. No, of course, but I don't mean to go all Jeff Wells, but Vanessa Shaw is very pretty.

[00:07:33] I did feel that way. Every time I see her in a movie... Every time you see her for a second, you're like, fucking Jeff Wells just for one second. Yeah, because he makes me feel guilty about finding her pretty. She's so good in two lovers.

[00:07:43] I love her in that movie. I do think she's one of those beautiful people alive, but I can't say that now because of fucking Jeff Wells. Well, that's why I put it out there. I'm just acknowledging it. I just sort of threw it out.

[00:07:55] I saw a guy in the subway today. You are the Sarah Polly. I am the Vanessa. You seem right. You seem a little touchy. Sleepy-eyed. Yeah. I saw a guy today on the subway who I genuinely thought was Jeff Wells for half a second.

[00:08:12] The very first press screening I went to in New York, Jeff Wells was there. He was there? Yeah, the hat? No. He didn't have the emotionally vivid cap on him. What was the very first press screening? I think it was the Neon Demon. Sure.

[00:08:29] I saw a man who I thought was Jeff Wells on the subway, and then he turned out to just be a crazy 55 year old man. But I'm not even like making a... I'm not dunking on Wells here for a second. Still have an introduced our guest.

[00:08:41] Just want to make that clear. They are hashtag... The other two friends? The two pals? Two gals? Two gals? I don't like that. Maybe not yet. They're both film critics. You can see their bylines all about town. Do you want to list places?

[00:09:03] You've both written for too many places for me to like know what to lead with. We both write for a bunch of places. They write for the internet. Emma writes for... right, screen question, Banny Fair. That's true. You've written for Slash Phone?

[00:09:16] Yeah, and Vulture and Vice and a couple other places. Yeah. Just keep listening. And also known as the current day Martin and Lewis of Twitter. Sure. Which one's Martin? Emma's Martin. Karen Haun and I'm a Stephanski. I'm very excited. We're also very excited.

[00:09:39] I want to talk about something. The next step of our single white female and you guys. And I just messaged these two and I was like, Hey guys, see you're going to be on the podcast for the way to water. There's no questions allowed.

[00:09:51] It's hard to pitch someone on being on the way to water episode. Right. And the next step was you should take it as a compliment that we were like,

[00:09:59] We need them to do this because we need to spice up the one that no one's going to listen to. No one's going to listen to this episode. I want to address something right off the bat. People will listen to this episode. They listen to the Loveless episode.

[00:10:11] This is a big test of our built-in audience. Look, we're connoisseurs of context. You need this context. Some people might just jump straight from point break to, I don't know, the fucking hurt locker because you're only covering four movies. What's happening in her career?

[00:10:27] Audience to sort of jump from point break to the hurt locker. Right. I want to talk about something right off the bat. Karen, you're behind something that has been taking the internet by storm. Oh God. He's so obsessed with this because I think it's the best thing,

[00:10:41] but also it's not like I'm the only one. That's true. I have rarely seen film Twitter take to someone else's bit this hard. It's because it's not a bit. But that's why that's a bit. It is a bit. Emma's calling her out. Emma's calling her out. It's both.

[00:11:00] I want to get some conflict going. You're going to ruin our friendship. There can only be one, two friends. You're the Griffey you're duo. And I feel like Dave and I get into arguments about this a lot about stuff.

[00:11:11] I do and whether or not it is a bit. And the answer is I rarely do stuff I don't actually feel, but I also know that I'm making it into a bit. You lean into it. I'm framing it in a bit as a delivery device.

[00:11:22] Of my own feelings. If that makes sense. But everyone's got their bits on film Twitter. It's a bitty little world, right? Yeah, sure. Garbage. You do it for the fans, not for the critics. Everyone's got their routine. But your routine is very infectious.

[00:11:44] Because you have what you dubbed Karen's boys. I didn't come up with that name. Who came up with the name? Someone else came up with that. No, it wasn't Fran. Yeah, no, someone dubbed them Karen's boys. I don't know. But Karen's boys they are. They're your boys.

[00:12:03] They are the actors who you love in multiple senses. Right? There are people whose work you respect and who you also find attractive. That's correct. You're going back to try to find the origin. Yeah, yep. No, Karen, keep talking.

[00:12:22] But you have a very specific type of just hard-working blue collar character actor. Often international. Who you really take to.

[00:12:35] Yes, I think Emma described him at some point that was like they all look like either they would die within the first 30 minutes of the movie or they would be the killer at the end. Yeah, I think I did say that. That's pretty spot on.

[00:12:50] Ben Mendelssohn is kind of like the... He seems to be the flagship boy. He's the emblematic, right? And he certainly falls in that category. He's either first to go or the one who offers the final blow. Recent Burger Report subject, Ben Mendelssohn. Introduce him with his proper title.

[00:13:05] Oh, sorry. Recent Burger Report subject. Ben Mendelssohn. Thanks. This movie has a pretty major Karen's boy in it, right? Had he previously been dubbed as such? Yes. Definitely yes.

[00:13:23] I mean to the point that David texted me while he was watching this, he was like four scenes, four shots in there's a pretty major Karen's boy. And when I started watching, it was pretty obvious who he's talking about. Sure, sure.

[00:13:34] And one of the things that I have to say among multiple things that I found terrible about this movie is that it made me feel uncomfortable for him. I'm not liking him. It made him actively unattractive. Yeah, he's a bit of a creep in this one. He's horrible.

[00:13:50] But a lot of Karen's boys are often presented as creeps or sad sacks. Sure, both. Because that's the whole fucking bit is that people don't usually get a crush on... I don't know. Give me a Karen's boy. Eddie Marsden. That's a good one, right?

[00:14:05] That is a good one. Do you know what I think it's about? Sure. Eddie Marsden who is like a big cube on a little cube. He's a cube. He's a cube shaped man. He looks like a Minecraft character. He does. He looks like a Minecraft character.

[00:14:20] He's one of those Tetris configurations that stresses you out. You didn't rotate it fast enough. You're like, fuck how do I ever clear a line with that on the board? He's in Mark Felt. And he literally doesn't even have a character name.

[00:14:31] He plays like a CIA guy, I think. My two most anticipated movies, Mark Felt and Death of Stalin. Death of Stalin is good. One out of two is going to be satisfied. I'm not talking about good movies. These are like your Ocean's Eleven.

[00:14:46] Mark Felt has Josh Lucas in it, in fact. But he just sits down and he's like, the CIA is all over this. And you're like, oh, it's Eddie Marsden never comes back. Why is he in this one shot? Anyway, that's Mark Felt report. That's... I feel like...

[00:15:05] I feel like a cornerstone of Karen's boys. Because I'm fascinated from a distance in trying to identify who is a Karen's boy. We have to be middle aged. But here's the thing, I think all of them got a lot of face. A lot of face? Like big heads.

[00:15:23] Well, like Kieran Hines' big head. He's a big headed man. So literally a lot of face there. But then I look at Eddie Marsden who's compact but I go, there's a lot of face there. There's a lot of different stuff going on in the face there.

[00:15:34] There's a face where you have to lean in and go, what exactly is going on? And these guys who kind of like dramatically change appearance depending on angle. Yes, that's correct. Like if within a shot they tilt their head and now they look like a totally different...

[00:15:47] You're trying to figure out how the fucking nose works. I mean, I think what you're saying is someone with like a lot of character in their face. That's the the NSU-phemistic way of putting it. Right. Where it's like, you don't think of them as maybe like conventionally handsome.

[00:16:00] But there's like a story there. These are actors I love where when they show up on screen and go like fuck yeah. Like in the theater I like start like high-fiving. You sound like a great person to go see a movie with.

[00:16:11] You know for a fact I'm a great person to go see a movie with. You are, you're wonderful. But then you add the amorous level onto it. But I do... It's a very generous way of putting it.

[00:16:26] I feel like film Twitter is often like running back to you after they've seen a movie with a good... I do get a lot of tweets that were like, so I just watched this movie and this character actor was in it. Are they a Karen's boy?

[00:16:36] I don't know who it is by the way. We said it. Karen Hines? I think we said it. He's the K-man in this movie. Sean Penn is kind of like the anti-KB. He's awful, I hate him. I don't agree, but he's sort of the antithesis.

[00:16:53] Why is he the antithesis? He's not that handsome. Sean Penn's got a lot of face. I gotta say, I'm sorry, but I gotta say it. He's got a lot of face. I think he stands in stark contrast to what makes a true Karen's boy.

[00:17:07] Karen's boys are often like Sam Neal or Vincent De Nofrio, people who have somewhat cute sort of online weird sort of doddering online lives.

[00:17:18] I did get roasted for like a full month around Dunker because like every time I'd bring up Mark Rannas, they'd be like, Mark Rannas has one bit and it's just doddering all full and you love it. On screen he definitely leans into... But anyway, sorry, carry on, Griff.

[00:17:31] My point is Sean Penn... He's an axe like he's sexy. Oh. Sure, well I think there was a time when Sean Penn was sexy, like the 80s is what I'm referring to. Sure and I know people who found him attractive before he turned into a lived in shoe.

[00:17:49] With a mustache. Right, a decent shoe that has outstated's welcome. By far. A mid-level leather boot. I like this article. The one about Chapo? Yeah. I don't even remember. I think there's that Sean Penn thing where he's like...

[00:18:10] They're not people who present themselves as being sexy, like it's not a attitude thing. And it's that movie star thing of Sean Penn being like, I'm a fucking movie star and what you like about Karen's boys is they're just hardworking nice men who do their job

[00:18:23] and even someone like Sam Neal who like becomes a leading man kind of unconventionally in Jurassic Park. Sure. Like a Karen's boy. He's not showing up. He's just doing the work. Which is actually kind of a classic Spielberg league thing because you think of Richard Dreyfus. Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:40] Like he liked the sort of every man type leading man. Right. You only knew Richard Dreyfus. Richard Dreyfus. Especially now he's old and kind of liver spotted. Remember when he played Dick Chaney? Yeah, it's a weird performance. Very weird.

[00:18:59] It's one of those performances where you're like, yeah, I get it Richard Dreyfus. You hate Dick Chaney. He's putting... He's leaning a little too much into like, I don't think this is a human being. And I love Richard Dreyfus.

[00:19:11] There's that scene where he holds up the sign with an arrow pointing to him that says, ain't I a stinker? That's a fucking weird movie. Who plays Colin Powell and W? Now I'm trying to remember. Jeffrey Wright. I mean, he's a Gryffins boy.

[00:19:27] Like that's like one of those character actors when he shows up on screen. I saw whatever it was the second Hunger Games with my... The lady I was dating at the time and when he showed up on screen, I literally went, fuck yeah.

[00:19:39] And she turned to me and said, I thought you hadn't read the books. And I was like, I haven't. That's just Jeffrey Wright. He's one of our finest actors.

[00:19:46] Because I just remember W kind of makes it like a little too easy where it's like Colin Powell's sort of the audience is supposed to be the best actor. I remember sitting in him and Dick Cheney was like, let's bomb. Sorry. He's like the... He's the W.

[00:20:01] He's a guy. Tini Newton kills him that though. I think that movie is weird and I barely remember it. She always kills him. She's a G.G actually. That's what we should be talking about. Gryffins girl. Let's just... Okay. So the way to water.

[00:20:19] Yeah please, let's hurry up Gryffins girls. Everyone wants to hear us talk about this movie. You're right. You're right. You're right. It starts a big GG, Sarah Pauley. Yeah, I love Sarah Pauley. She was cast right off of the sweet hair after.

[00:20:36] You know what I mean? Like sweet hair after comes out in 97. And Guinevere too is like kind of a big thing for her. Guinevere? I don't even know what that is. That was a what's your name? That was like a big...

[00:20:46] No, I believe you. I just don't know it. 99, yeah. Guinevere. Look up who directed. Some of us did. Audrey Wells. Who did something else? Under the Tuscan Sun. Can you star 69 Italy? Yeah, I guess so. That's the question it asks. The question Sandra O and that movie asks,

[00:21:05] can you star 69 Italy? We still have yet to answer it. We just don't know. But a weird ensemble cast. Oh, in the weight of water? Yes. Yeah. Josh Lucas, Karen Hines, Sean Penn. Elizabeth Hurley. Elizabeth Hurley kind of right at the tail end of her fame.

[00:21:25] Well, in terms of when it came out, but when it was shot, it was at the peak of her fame. That's the weird thing. Do you think it was at the peak of her fame? I mean, it's at the peak of her being in big movies, I guess.

[00:21:35] I would argue it's the peak of her fame because if they shot this movie in 1999, this would have been when Austin Powers was like at peak level. And I know she's barely in the second one, 2000. Okay. The Dazzle is 2000. Because Powers comes out in theater.

[00:21:50] Powers comes out in 97, obviously, but does okay in theaters and then is a humongous video success. So it took a year or two before she got the full benefit of the Powers bump. Sure. I would argue. I understand what you're saying, and she's in Ed TV. Right.

[00:22:08] Which she plays a similar role as she does in the weight of water, essentially the tempteress. Right, Dazzle serving Sarah. That's like her run of big studio comedies. I think her most famous moment is wearing a really famous dress in 1994 and everyone going, who the fuck is that?

[00:22:24] And like that, I mean, the address that's so famous that has its own Wikipedia page. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know any of this. This is a very famous dress. I am not talking out of my eyes. Often referred to as that dress. Yes.

[00:22:37] Wow. Which like, I think it was the premiere for Winning's at a funeral. She was in a relationship with Hugh Grant, which she wasn't for a long time. She was kind of Sienna Miller. Sure. Where like Sienna Miller, I felt like,

[00:22:49] because Sienna Miller had her whole public thing about her with Jude Law before she had ever been in a movie that anyone had seen. I felt like it took a while for her to get out of the shadow of being like a famous... Jude Law's girlfriend. Right.

[00:23:01] Yeah, that's true for her. And I think, I think... Hurley, I think have that for like four years. It's definitely true for Elizabeth Hurley because not only was, so he steps out with her at the Forwarding's funeral. She's wearing this very famous dress.

[00:23:11] Oh, Ben, have you ever never seen this dress? It's a great dress. I mean, now I'll admit, I grew up in Britain at like the height of her fame as like an ingenue. You lived in Britain? Yeah, yeah. Wait, really? I think this is a bit...

[00:23:27] Because if he had lived in Britain, he would have brought it up before now. For sure, he would. It wouldn't be like a recurring question from us. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So, and then you're right. It took a while for her to be in big movies. Right.

[00:23:42] Because her breakout definitely is Awesome Powers, which 97. She's very, very good. I rewatched that movie recently. You think she's very good at it? Yeah, I was good. I was kind of taken aback rewatching with how good I think she is.

[00:23:52] Weirdly, that's the Awesome Powers I've seen the least. I've only seen it like a couple times. It's so good. It is. It is good. It really is. Like, I feel like we've gotten to the point now. What do you guys think about Awesome Power? It's good.

[00:24:04] I've seen that one. Never seen any of them. Really? They're so younger and it's so fucking upsetting. I've only seen the like, yeah baby clip and that's about it. Great clip. Both of you are 12. We should mention that. Yeah. No, I will say I rewatched Awesome Powers

[00:24:19] because it was a very big movie to me growing up and the sequels I think are dimension returns with solid bits in them but aren't really fucking movies. But I rewatched the first one and I think we've gotten to a point in culture

[00:24:31] where we are far enough removed from uncles doing Awesome Powers and Dr. Evil impressions all the time that the movie can kind of be viewed purely again. If you're really gonna get it. Breathe a little more, sure, sure. And I think it's really fucking strong as a comedy.

[00:24:43] I encourage people to rewatch or watch Awesome Powers International Man of Mystery but Elizabeth Hurley I think is really strong in that in a tricky role. How do you feel about her and my favorite Martian? Incredible. I've seen that movie but I don't remember it.

[00:24:57] My favorite Martian was my birthday party that year. Hey man, 1998 so you would have been like 9 or 10, yeah. 8, 9, 9, I would have been 9. Oh, I'm sorry, it's 99. Then I would have been 10. I wanted to do a movie party because that felt like I love movies.

[00:25:13] Why would I go to a place that isn't a movie theater for my birthday and that was the only thing that came out in February. Oh, gosh. February 12th, 1999. I had very good luck in that sense because I did kind of the same thing

[00:25:21] while I was growing up. I was like, my birthday is when, my birthday's in May so it's when all the big studio movies came out. It's true, you have a big thing. So I always have a Marvel movie. It was terrific.

[00:25:30] See, I went up for my 13th birthday waited until Spider-Man came out. Oh my God. So my birthday was in February and I didn't have my party until May and everyone showed up and they were like, what's your birthday? Like, I vaguely remember at school

[00:25:44] saying happy birthday to you less than a year ago. Yeah, but Spider-Man. Agreed, he's my guy. You also once changed your birthday on Facebook to get a free meal at medieval times. Am I correct in saying that? And then I wish you a happy birthday on Facebook.

[00:25:56] I remember that. That is correct. I think I remember that. That is correct. So this was several years ago. Okay, never mind. You guys did something similar this year, I feel like. I was going to medieval times with a bunch of my friends

[00:26:09] in Toronto and we knew there was a discount because it was like 13 of us and no one wanted to go and I was like, what if I pay for everybody? Wow. And then everyone was like, yeah. And I was like just at the tail end

[00:26:25] of my Malayne money, which was like running dry pretty quick. You were just like putting it all over town too. Yeah, it turns out they don't keep paying you if you get fired from a sitcom. You're kidding. So I had the money from the pilot

[00:26:38] and I was like, oh, never run out of money again. And then I was running out of money but I offered to pay for everyone for medieval times. I was like, fuck, I bit off more than I could chew. How do I get a discount here?

[00:26:47] That place doesn't strike me as cheap either. No. I felt like 15 bucks for everybody, right? No. Wait, how much is medieval time? Too much. So I was like someone's birthday and they were like, okay, great. What's the name of the birthday person? And I was like, me? Griffey?

[00:27:05] Griffey Nooms? Turn your iPad off. I'm sorry. Fucking monster. And they were like, okay, you're going to have to show proof when you get here. And I was like, oh fuck. So then I changed my birthday on Facebook so that I'd have a whole wall

[00:27:18] and I could just be like, hey, I'm from America. I don't have ID, but here's my Facebook wall. But then I got stressed out that it wasn't enough. I don't think I've told you this part. Maybe not. I took my passport.

[00:27:31] We went to the local copy shop and I wrote out fake numbers and I taped them to my passport and then photocopied it four times so it got degraded. Oh my God. So I could bring the photocopies. So you had like a photo, wow. A fake passport.

[00:27:46] How did it look? I did it with my friend and he was like, wow, you did a really good job with that. And I was like, yeah, well, you know, I mean, he's like, do you do visual art? And I was like, kind of, I mean,

[00:27:53] I like drawing a lot, but I don't really show my work. It seems like a great conversation. It's like, you know, I like it to be something that I do just for myself and not for validation, like all the other things I do in my life.

[00:28:03] And then we like walk back, we were so proud of it and I showed it to the group and everyone was like, that's the worst fucking thing. You're going to get arrested if you bring that. That medieval time. Yes. So we didn't bring...

[00:28:14] You could have made like customs fraud. We didn't bring the passport. We went there. They didn't check anything. Right. All my friends got angry because I had faked my birthday and now every year on my birthday people go like, is this the real one? It's true.

[00:28:28] You can only pull that once. Yes. But my friend, my friend Taylor, I believe still has my fake passport on his fridge because he thinks it's funny how bad it is. 35 minutes in. Have you not discussed... Well, that should be fair.

[00:28:43] I think we recorded for a bit without starting. So maybe that's not that long. Ben's looking at his phone. He literally replied to a tweet recently like, on air. So it's time to talk about Kingsman now, right? Yeah. No, that we were 30 minutes in.

[00:28:59] Oh yeah, let's talk about it. But Emma hasn't seen it so we have got to keep this brief. Okay. Kingsman the Golden Circle, bad movie. I'll just go on. I'll be on Twitter. Mixed movie. Sure. Okay. So there we go. That's our discussion of Kingsman the Golden Circle.

[00:29:12] You saw it twice? No, I know. I assume you went to the press screening the first time. So it's like you only paid to see it once. Sure. So what did you see? I only had to see it with the fans.

[00:29:23] Weirdly, the press were having a better time with it. Really? Yeah. Where'd you see it? What theater? The first time or the second time? Second time. 84th Street AMC. Good theater. It's all theater. Good theater but right maybe the crowd not so raucous.

[00:29:37] It'll be a limp crowd there sometimes I found. Yeah, for sure. Although I remember seeing X2, X-Men United there. Boy, the place was lit. Jacked up. Sure. Jacked up for X2. Oh yeah. But it's bad. It's bad. I hated it.

[00:29:51] I was surprised how much I hated it because I really like the first one. Oh wow, okay. Griffin, you are in the middle here. What do you think of Kingsman, the Golden Circle? I enjoy things about it.

[00:30:02] I remember when the first one came out and people were like, ooh, there's a lot of ideological stuff in this movie that's kind of icky. Which is worse than the second one. Right. Which is the first one right?

[00:30:13] The first one definitely is having fun sort of playing on that edge or whatever. And I felt like nowhere near skillfully, but the first one danced around Verhoeven stuff where it was like, you know, the difference between... Where he's like, look, this is what they do. Depiction endorsement.

[00:30:30] It felt kind of honest. You like that. Well, because like the first one's a bond parody, right? Right. And so like the villain in the first one, you're kind of like, I don't know, is he even bad? Like is this mission even like, like definitely evil?

[00:30:45] And they're like, yeah, no it is. We got to kill him. Blow everyone up. Like it's fine. Just like total ultra violence will take care of it. The bottom line is just like, don't worry about it. Yeah, exactly. I liked all of that.

[00:30:56] I liked that dance the movie was doing. I understand why people don't. I understand, you know, the frustration over like, does Matthew Vaughn actually even care about anything or is he just provocateur? Is he just trying to piss people off? Is he a regular Ricky T jokes?

[00:31:08] He made Stardust. He's got to care. Right. And I feel like he walks a very fine line, which Verhoeven did with his Hollywood as well, where he like cares about his characters as people, even though he despises what they represent, which I find very interesting when filmmakers are

[00:31:23] able to pull that off. I get you because he definitely cares about Eggsy. Right. And I think Taryn Egerton is very charming. Right. And I eggsy. Is it eggy? What the point is he keeps on. Yeah. Griff gets it. Yeah, Griff gets it. GGI.

[00:31:39] But I think, you know, and I think, you know, and I think some of the stuff he's getting at in the movie in terms of class and behavioral, socioeconomic, you know, relationships. Is a lot more interesting than the first one. Yes.

[00:31:56] And then the second one, I feel like they kind of throw everything out the window and just do a bunch of shit. Yeah. There are too many ideas that aren't really tied to anything. And it's frustrating to me because the statesman stuff, which I think

[00:32:05] mostly just feels like a lark and set up for a third movie is never really properly integrated into it. Oh yeah. I was like, why does it get so scary? It's really frustrating because I felt like it was right there to

[00:32:16] actually do a thorough dissection of the differences between the classic male archetypes and British culture and American culture. That's what I was hoping for. I think Colin Firth shouldn't have been in the sequel. Yeah. I think the entire second film should have been him teamed up with

[00:32:29] one statesman, not this fucking like back and forth between Channing and Pedro. Yeah. Both I think are solid in the movie, but it's just like everyone's shit going on. Fine. Although I thought Julianne Moore was kind of half ass. Love to her. Love to her.

[00:32:44] I think it was Cam who said something like, I feel like she showed up and then she was like, all right, you guys got one take. That wasn't it. Yeah. I did not like her. Love to her. I was really happy with her work. I liked her vibe.

[00:32:57] I loved it. Really bummed out when she disappeared for like a full hour. Yeah. But that's what happened to everyone who wasn't an OG like Kingsman. Right. Because they were just like, let's just have everyone do 50 minutes. And I didn't like it, which is misrepresenting how much I

[00:33:10] liked it. Why did you like it? There's, I, okay. Life was short. And there are three things I like about this movie, which is Pedro Pascal just throwing all that charm around everywhere. Sure. Very charming. Number two, Mark Strong sings John Denver.

[00:33:22] And number three, Colin Firth holds a puppy. I don't need anything else out of a movie. I had a great time. I need more things out of a movie. It's all the boys. All the boys. You liked all the stuff the boys did.

[00:33:31] If Mark Strong releases a single, sing John Denver. I'll listen to it. It's on the soundtrack. I know it is. I know. I'm going to track a style of no time for emotion. Go on iTunes and buy that shit right now. Yeah. You know, Mark Strong's good.

[00:33:43] I enjoy Mark Strong in general. He's so great. I think he's having fun in that movie. And he actually gets a little to do. Yeah. Unlike most people in the movie. But there's something about, I mean, I really just think it's buying into its bullshit. That's my thing.

[00:33:57] I would agree with that. It's like the first one was like, no, we're a broad parody. We can get away with everything. And the second one's like, but you know, the Kingsman lore is definitely interesting. No, it isn't. It's not interesting. I don't care.

[00:34:10] I also, you know, I like the final joke at the end of the first Kingsman, which I know most people hate because I like how disgusting it is. Well, again, this is what they're doing. They're like, James Bond always gets laid at the

[00:34:23] end of the movies and it's always kind of weird and gross. So he's getting laid and it's going to be even weirder and grosser. Do you like that? Right. I don't like isn't that the bit, Matthew Vaughn, that's like, that's Mark Millar's whole dumb thing.

[00:34:35] I hate and I think Vaughn is usually able to filter the Millar stuff. Right, the needles are right. Better. Miller has no subtlety. He does not have a steady hand with that stuff. No, you don't think kick ass is a subtle? Right.

[00:34:47] But then there's the bit where they have to plant the homing device in Kingsman 2, which like for me is like, well now I can't even defend the joke at the end of the first one because it feels like you had no idea what you were doing. For context?

[00:34:59] Oh, I know. Okay, great. This is the one part of the movie that I did on Nightmare. Yeah, apparently Taran Agariton refused to film that scene. So then what happened? They brought in the actress's husband. No. Wow. Well, I respect Taran Agariton more now. He's a good boy.

[00:35:16] He's a good boy. Also apparently the movie had a bunch of Trump jokes that they decided to take out. I'm not surprised because Bruce Greenwood is doing like his last. He's doing like a quasi-Trump, which is weird because the first movie blows up Barack Obama. His head explodes.

[00:35:32] That's the thing. So the second one they're like, I don't know, Trump might be a little tricky to do though. Really? Well it's like you have Bruce Greenwood. Lily Allen's dad gets fed into a meat grinder and then Julianne Moore turns into a burger. Yep.

[00:35:46] But it's like Burger Port. Yes, it is Burger Port. The character is written like Donald Trump but then Bruce Greenwood plays it like W. Yeah, he does. Yes. Which has got this other accent. Yeah. And even just the way he styled the demeanor, the physicality and everything.

[00:36:04] Yeah, I mean it made me like the first one a little bit less because now I wonder how much of that was intentional. Like a lot of the stuff that was murky in the first one where for me I was like

[00:36:14] that's the point you shouldn't be enjoying this shit. Right. Now I'm like, wait, I think he wants us to like everything. The weight of water. Yes. I have a segue for a new movie that has also recently come out that Emma saw that I have not seen

[00:36:27] which I thought of while watching The Weight of Water which is that while watching The Weight of Water I was like Sarah Pauley is living through what my understanding of mother is. We haven't talked about mother on this fucking podcast either.

[00:36:40] So that's my segue to two different things. I don't think that's true though. Have you seen mother? Yeah, I liked it. That's fine. The more I think about it the more annoyed I become with it but I didn't enjoy it

[00:36:51] because I don't know and maybe it's just because of all the- Is it just cause Darren Aronofsky's like walking around town? He's just like enjoying- Like, let me tell you what it's about. Annoying everybody. Yeah, I don't know. He's doing the opposite of David Lynch.

[00:37:03] If he wasn't saying anything about it I would like the movie more. I wish he would stop talking. Yeah, Darren, stop talking. I actually don't care because like directors can say what they want. I don't give a shit but I also am like,

[00:37:16] well you can say what you want but I get to think what I think about the movie. I also, I dislike the movie but I walked out of it and was like, that's a movie I don't like that I'm really happy exists.

[00:37:25] Like happy people are making movies like that or taking swings like that. It's an actual blank check that we don't really get. I'm sorry, say that again? No, that's alright. But his entire response to the press feels like well you don't get to make that movie

[00:37:41] then tell people how they watch it. Right, this very- Cause like the whole point of the marketing- A movie that's supposed to be you get to talk about it after. It's supposed to inspire fun conversations. And there was that recent interview he did

[00:37:51] where he was like in one interview you said both like we know what we're doing. It's a punk rock movie. It's a punch in the face. Like you're not supposed to like it. And then also said like, you know I'm really frustrated when I see people

[00:38:03] refusing to engage with the movie intellectually just because it isn't the same- It's like which is it? Which is it? Right, at least Matthew Vaughn is like I want you to be upset. Like at least he's consistent being like I'm a fuckhead, you know? I guess so, yes.

[00:38:16] There was Aaron Opsky. There was Aaron Opsky. Here's my segue I'm gonna do if you're ready for this. Do you know that Mark Strong star of the Kingsman films was in a punk band in college? I didn't know that. And it was called Private Party

[00:38:30] because the bit was they didn't want people to show up. So they put signs up where they'd say Private Party tonight at 7 with the location. Yeah. So people wouldn't show up because they weren't invited. You know who else was in a punk band when they were young?

[00:38:44] Good old Liz Hurley. Oh really? Was in a punk band called Vestal Urgence. Oh boy. Okay. I take it back. All right. So the weight of water. Yeah. She was a punk. She's from Bayes'n Stoke. She's a punker. And she says when I was 16

[00:38:59] the thing to be in Bayes'n Stoke was punk. So she dyed her hair pink. Of course. And pierced her nose. Super punk. I mean she was 16. I'm not gonna make fun of 16 year old Liz Hurley. We all do things at that age. Really? Sorry, I'm just reading her.

[00:39:17] Ben's also just like leaning into like read Liz Hurley's Wikipedia page with me. Which is fine. It's just what are you looking for? I'm just interested in punk. Yeah, sure. Well she's the queen of punks. Ben, you seem weirdly bored by us not talking about

[00:39:33] the weight of water for someone who has not seen the weight of water. Well no, I don't know. I'm just, I'm doing email stuff for work. Cool. How far did you get in before you fell asleep? Like five, ten minutes. Wow. I mean it's not that far.

[00:39:49] No but I... You were sleeping. Are you sure it's not that boring? I mean, yeah, okay. It's pretty boring. I had been in Boston over the weekend and I was traveling and that's my excuse. Also I would say the credits are the most boring part of this film.

[00:40:02] Oh god, I texted Emma when I started watching this movie. I was like, is the sax music for real? And she was like, oh yeah, the sexy music? Yeah, but over everything. Even the back-in-time stuff where that instrument doesn't exist. I really thought it was just

[00:40:14] gonna be the credits but it's the whole movie. It's very... What if this movie was about the invention of the saxophone? Like what it's really getting at. The Kenny G story? Yeah. The saxophone is akin to the water's weight. Why is it called the way you want it?

[00:40:27] I thought that they would explain that. I thought that would be a line in the movie but I never... And you can turn and go that's the way to water. Yeah, like whispers to date while watching. Whispers to date when water is weight. That's the way to water.

[00:40:38] Which also, the way of water sounds like a fake title of a boring drama that someone wants to make in a satire about Hollywood. Like it feels like the screenplay that Vincent D'Nofrio is trying to get them to read the play. Don't rag on Vincent like this.

[00:40:51] Yeah, no. It's called the way to water. It's a real screenplay. No, you're right. It's a fake title. It's fake. Vincent's a great boy. Vincent's a great boy. Love Vincent D'Nofrio. All-time great boy. Don't love Vincent Fawn. Mixed on him. Stoked for bronze. Cellblock 99 though. Looks good.

[00:41:07] Here it is. Violent. This is like the fourth time we were going to talk about that fucking movie. Why are we still talking about the same four things in every episode? I know. Maybe Cellblock 99, but the way to water is based on a book.

[00:41:21] When I was watching it like 20 minutes on it's like wait a second, what the fuck is this movie? So I like Google did and I realized it was based on a book and I was like that makes total sense. This really feels like

[00:41:30] a movie that's based on a book. But it wasn't a hugely successful book, right? It was pretty well known I think at the time. Really? Let's just say I haven't heard a word about it in my lifetime. Sure. Neither the book nor the movie. Exactly. A book.

[00:41:44] Let's find out. Yes, Cellar. You have to imagine this was somewhat of a passion project for Bigelow though. She loved the book. Yeah. Has she said anything to that effect? I haunted for interviews with her about this movie. Couldn't find anything. No, I found stuff. Oh really?

[00:41:59] Oh yeah, but it's really hard. I had to go to like a book. I had to go to like Google books. The Wayback Machine. It's hard to tell. It's hard to look up like how successful books were. But I found her... Books Office Mojo. Oh God. David, check

[00:42:14] books office Mojo. So upset. I hate you. Karen and I have to go now. Yeah, you gotta go. Everyone's gotta go. Mojo. Here we go. Catherine Bigelow interviews Google books. I should have bookmarked this like I'm such an idiot. The Weight of Water. She loved the manuscript

[00:42:30] when she was shooting Strange Days. Okay. So she read the manuscript in 1994. Now, Catherine Bigelow's mother was a Norwegian immigrant. So I think she was drawn to the story of Norwegian immigrants coming to Smuddy Nose Island and just killing each other with chairs. And Boy, our nose is

[00:42:52] smuddy in this movie. Smuddy Nose and Appledore. Yeah. I'm quoting this from a book that's like quoting from an interview she gave. My mom's side of the family was all Norwegian. So I grew up with these incredible stories of coming to America and trying to make

[00:43:07] a life here and how difficult that was. Yada, yada, yada. So when I read this manuscript, it was a kind of way to bring back mom to bring mom back to life. It was very personal. Okay. Had her mother died recently? She had died recently. Yes. Okay.

[00:43:23] She had passed away while she was making Strange. There we go. This movie makes 100% sense to me now. I feel like most filmmakers have that movie where you're like what's, what was that? And they explain it was about one of their parents who had died right before they

[00:43:38] made the movie. I'm trying to find, she had loved Sarah Pauly in the suite hereafter. I think she's someone of staggering talent, she says. And she like scraped together money and this is a studio canal film. Right. So she, like... Born film, she had some

[00:43:54] decent sized stars at this moment. Right. She gets, it was a $16 million budget. It's all on the screen. And Strange Days was her big blank check movie and it bombed. It had bombed. And it got a very middling response at the time. So you...

[00:44:07] So maybe she had to, rather than go into another studio. You imagine that she would want to just go back to basics, make a, you know, a real contained adult drama just to get her feet back on dry land. But also... Oh boy. Also pun not intended for

[00:44:21] your information. Thank you. Pun not intended. Thank you. But also if you like compare this to Elizabeth Town, which is Cameron Crow's dead parent movie. Sure. Like this doesn't feel as like wildly like... I think I'd be doing it but you're right. Yes.

[00:44:37] I feel like I'm not thinking about it. Elizabeth Town, you're like, why'd you write this fucking movie? But there are a lot of movies like that where I feel like I've heard directors afterwards when they were like, what was the fucking point of that movie?

[00:44:48] They're like, my dad just died and I was trying to sort through these motions and I didn't really know what I was doing at the time. Sure. I mean, I get that on some level for this movie in terms of all the Norwegian stuff but the stuff with

[00:44:58] like the boat is incomprehensible to me. Which it's... And again in the book, I could see this because it's all... Oh for sure. You're cutting, you know you're in the movie to figure out why they were cross-cutting. I was like, what is the point of these two stories

[00:45:10] that we've been together? I don't think you ever really figure out why they're both so... I mean, yeah. I think she probably read the book and was like, wow, this Norwegian story is amazing. Fuck, I guess I can make the boat stuff too. Right.

[00:45:20] And it's like you don't have to. It could have just been a period film. She could have made a movie about this true story, this mysterious murder case. I did think near the beginning, I was like, this is like watching a bad episode of like Masterpiece

[00:45:33] Theater which I'm totally down for, but I only want to watch Masterpiece Theater. I don't want to watch Days of Her Lives as well. That was the complaint that most critics had. I was going back to reviews at the time and they were like

[00:45:43] this, why is this other shit in the movie? Yeah. Like the real story is kind of fascinating. Let me explain. Please. We are connoisseurs of context. We are connoisseurs of context. And I just want to explain what the plot of the movie is because no one's

[00:45:57] gonna watch it anyway and I might as well just lay it out for our listeners. I mean, so you don't keep watched it? Without looking at the wick so. Wow. Okay, here we go. You've got parallel storylines. The modern day storyline. You've got Catherine McCormick.

[00:46:09] I have to type the two storylines. Exactly. Catherine McCormick. That's her name right? Or is it Caroline? She of Braveheart. Carol. Catherine. I think it's Catherine McCormick of Braveheart fame. Not a big actress. Bigger in Britain. In those couple of years after Braveheart. She's around.

[00:46:25] She weirdly, this is one of the last big things she did. She doesn't like to do movies. I read an interview with her. She's like, I'm sure I like to do something like this. Yeah, but she doesn't. I wouldn't either. She just, she just,

[00:46:38] she rare, she does a lot of theater. She just rarely does movies. She treads the board. She treads the board. She's a board treader. She's a board treader. She's a board treader. She's treading the board. She's treading the board. She's treading the board. She's treading the board.

[00:46:50] Don't worry about Emma. Oh my God. She plays a photographer who is working on a story about this famous 19th century murder case. Because photographers usually research. I also do have a followup question about this, which is like how famous is Emma's and number two, the

[00:47:02] Wikipedia article as Emma's and I were discussing prior to recording is this stuff. Well, it is shorter than the article on Liz Hurley's dress. Okay. Well, there's not a lot of information about it. There isn't. But I mean, if you, I think if you go there, whatever,

[00:47:15] it's a locally famous. There's a lot of, okay. There's a lot of weird websites about it. I found like while looking through the Wikipedia, like the stuff that they reference and I was clicking on it and it's all like websites that were made 10, 15 years ago.

[00:47:26] Back when half the internet was just people trying to figure out what murders. It was like, Yeah, but I mean, how many murders from the 19th century do people talk about today? You know, it was a famous enough case that it is still the most famous murder case

[00:47:40] in like, you know, that area. It was probably, yeah, it probably was the biggest murder case since Muddy knows, right? Yeah, I was going to say like you mean like just now uninhabited island off the coast of Maine. Anyway, so she's a photographer. She's researching this murder

[00:47:55] for some reason. Right. Because just to be clear, she's a photographer who is researching a story that happened centuries ago that she would not be able to photograph in any way. She's going to photograph the island, right? Smuddy knows Island. And so she's with her husband,

[00:48:11] Sean Penn, who sucks, who is a poet of some renown. In my notes, I just wrote Sean Penn week sauce. Yep. He definitely seems like a twerp. She's going on the yacht of Sean Penn's brother, who's played by Josh Lucas. A very charming man.

[00:48:29] Yeah, he's a handsome boy. I like him a lot. I like Josh Lucas a lot now. You know, this is the era where there, you know, he's sweet home Alabama's around the same time where they're like, yeah, isn't he handsome? He's a little bit of a

[00:48:41] generic brand handsome guy. Sure. He's a little better now than he's gotten a little more. Third tier antagonist. He's great in that. Exactly. He is. And he's part of the best shot in that movie when he shoots the... Masterpiece Modern, Masterpiece. Yeah, well, let's do Ang Lee.

[00:48:57] So his brother, his brother's a yacht. His brother is married to or just dating? Just dating a woman. They didn't even know. They didn't know he was dating anybody. Right. She's dating a woman played by Elizabeth Hurley who likes to not wear her top of the yacht.

[00:49:11] She loves to not wear her top. There's something she loves more than not wearing her top though. Is it ice cubes? Poetry. Wait, what? It's ice cubes. Ice cubes. She loves ice cubes. It's easier to weigh water that way. Oh, shit. And she loves Sean Penn's poetry.

[00:49:24] And really wants to talk to him about the poetry. Yes. So there's this sort of love rhombus that's like going on on this yacht. I have to admit also at the beginning when Catherine is like taking pictures of everyone,

[00:49:35] I did think it was just going to be like just across the board in SES. Like the way that she was like taking pictures of Josh Lucas with his shirt off. I was like, okay, something's going down. They're not related. Just staring at her like,

[00:49:46] she's not technically related to any of those people but you were not supposed to... No, there were lines being crossed. Meanwhile, in the other movie, meanwhile in the other story line. There is a sense later. Oh yeah. Right. This is where it really gets good. So they are...

[00:50:00] And I guess there's also this sort of trauma in the past of Sean Penn and Catherine McCormick. That sounds like just Sean Penn. But they're two traumas. One is their daughter. There's one mysterious trauma but there's also the death of their daughter. Yeah. Right.

[00:50:14] And so that's sort of hanging over. But didn't they say the daughter recovered? Then I wasn't paying attention clearly. Right because there's... I thought that she had but then they talk about her after that. So was that a different child? I'm not keeping track.

[00:50:25] He talks about the death or hospitalization of one of their children and Catherine McCormick doesn't like it. I interpreted as that was a near-death experience that she then recovered from because they do have a kid. They reference being back home. Fair enough. Well, she has the line though.

[00:50:38] She was like, you know, he killed a girl, right? Well, that's different. That's the car accident. That was when I sat up in my chair and like, oh, I should pay attention. Late. Yeah. They dropped that one late. Ben's looking at his phone. So the 1873... Stop.

[00:50:51] I love it. I love it. I was just... You don't need another person who didn't see the movie. I'm giving color to the listeners. Scene painting. Okay. So now here's the slideshow that I brought along. It's in Microsoft PowerPoint. In 1873, and I really had to think about

[00:51:04] who was related to who. I struggle with that the first half of this movie. Just the first half? You got Sarah Pauly. She lives on Smarty Nose Island with a bearded man. Yep. They seem to have a fairly loveless marriage. Oh, like the beard company.

[00:51:17] But he buys her a dog. I know. Named after this island, yes? What were you saying? What did you say? Somebody said something? Oh, I said he buys her a dog though, which she does love. That's the best scene in the movie. Yes. Unimpeachably. Really good dog. Yeah.

[00:51:31] The cutest puppy I've seen in a long time. And then who shows up on this island? But two sisters, one of whom is Vanessa Shaw. Uh-huh. And Vanessa Shaw is married to Sarah Pauly's brother. Yes. And... And the other one is Cartlyn Cartridge, right? Sure. Who was...

[00:51:46] I'm not looking at my computer. Okay. She was one of Mike Lee's big actresses, and she died before this film was released. She died in a moment. She was a very good actor. Wait, is she the one who gets the chair to the face? Yes. Uh-huh.

[00:51:58] She was in Naked and Topsy Turvy. She was a really good actress. I'm getting her name wrong. Her name is... Yes, Catrin Cartridge. Fair enough. And this whole situation we quickly realize is a problem because Sarah Pauly and her brother... Used to bone down. They used to...

[00:52:16] Back in Norway. Yes. And they were separated for this reason, and Sarah Pauly was forced into this loveless marriage. Yeah. But now that they're back together, it's all boiling up to the surface again. And this leads to a murder, a double murder,

[00:52:29] that Sarah Pauly is the only survivor of, that she then fingers Kieran Hins, who's a local bearded creep... Who's been trying to slip the salam to everybody. He's not being very helpful. If he wants to not be accused of murder, he's doing a bad job. Yes.

[00:52:43] But he's constantly going around the town, I do mind if I just put my dick here for a minute? Guys put my dick here for one minute. As we see, because the movie is actually coming between three storylines in case it wasn't confusing enough.

[00:52:54] This kind of kind of coming between present day, after the murder and before the murder. Kieran Hins gets Heinz... I don't know Heinz. I think it's Heinz. Heinz gets hanged for the crime, which is what happened. This guy got... Mm-hmm. But this guy's protests were so vociferous

[00:53:11] that everyone believed like who was there, that he didn't do it. And so that's why the murder sort of remained this like full key tale that people write. But he was still a shitty guy. Yeah. Well, okay. You're gonna go around hanging all the shitty guys.

[00:53:25] Mr. Death penalty? I'm just saying, he was no saint this one. Sure. But that's not what Bigelow is interested in, I think. No. Right? Like she's interested in these like weird like tense ambiguous romantic dynamics that are forbidden. She's a tension based filmmaker, above all else.

[00:53:44] And this is more of a psychologically tense movie than she usually does. Usually she has more immediate visceral physical threats that are creating the tension around the characters. And this movie is like an internal headspace relationship tension film, which is an S compelling. Right?

[00:54:04] So that's the part of the movie. And it kind of builds to a climax, but not really a storm. Right? Like in the past it builds to the murder. Right. Which is climactic. That's great. That bit is great. Yeah, that bit is really well done.

[00:54:18] I mean, Sarah Polly's pretty good. She's like. I think she's really fucking good in this movie. She is. When is she bad? Never. Never bad. Do you know she hasn't done a movie since 2010? Like hasn't acted in a movie? What? What has she been doing?

[00:54:31] She directed what's it called? She's directed three films. Stories you tell. Right. I mean it was yeah. And she's working on Aelius Grace coming to Hulu this fall. Okay, that was the one. Interesting. As a director? A writer. Okay. And I'm not sure if she's directing it.

[00:54:47] She did take this. She like created it. Which is a really interesting movie that made. What's an interesting movie? Take This Waltz. Have you ever seen Take This Waltz? Of course. I've seen all her movies. Yeah. We met seeing stories we tell. Do you know that?

[00:55:00] That's how David and I became friends. We drew each other off of the Angelica watching stories we tell. The first movie that Emma and I ever saw together was Trolls. DreamWorks Trolls. We got it for David for his birthday. Shout out to Richard Lawson. Have you watched it?

[00:55:14] Passing Future Gas. No, we have to watch it together. David. I'm waiting for everyone to be able to see it with me. The four friends are all going to watch Trolls. That's right. And Ben can come too. Ben can come too. I'm sure he won't want to.

[00:55:26] No, I'm David Trolls. Excellent. Her three movies are away from her Take This Waltz and Stories You Tell. I think they're all great movies. I agree. But Take This Waltz is a challenging movie.

[00:55:38] I would say not in terms of like the content is hard to watch or anything, but like I feel like, you know, it's hard to know who to root for. It's like subtle. It's like interior. I like that about it.

[00:55:49] My only issue with Take This Waltz, I don't like Luke Kirby. Yeah, he's driving a little crazy. I read that script before it came out and was like, this is fucking incredible. This is one of the best scripts I've ever read.

[00:56:01] And then the movie I end up feeling a little underwhelmed by just because of that performance. You know what else is underwhelming is this movie. Agreed. The Weight of Water? Yeah. Yeah, it's underwhelming. But Sarah Polly, I mean after she had made...

[00:56:15] Everyone kept on saying like, yes, she really wants to direct, she really wants to direct. Like directors who had worked with her said like, I don't think she likes acting that much. Sure. And then after she made away from her, it was like,

[00:56:25] this is all she's going to do. But it felt like great, cool as long as you keep making stuff. Which I understand it's not her choice, the realities of the industry are fucking tough. Well, she's got the CV show coming which she created.

[00:56:36] So that's something to look forward to. It's just a bummer where it's like, I want to live in a world where either we're constantly getting Sarah Polly performances or we're semi-regularly getting Sarah Polly projects. And the space between the movies that she's making

[00:56:50] is frustrating just as a fan of her work when she's also not acting. Which if she just wants to act, by all means don't act. But watching this, I was like, fuck, she is so good and does... I think there hasn't been anyone to replace Sarah Polly

[00:57:04] in terms of what she was specifically capable of doing. It's quite a hot thing. Right? I don't know. I can't answer that question. I think she... I'd have to think of all actresses and then boil it down to what Sarah Polly was specifically doing.

[00:57:18] I think she has a certain like quiet expressiveness. A very kind of internalized... Great eyes. Right. Super vulnerable. Big eyes. Even in this movie where she, as the film, she should have been as the pain. Tim Burton's big eyes. Tim Burton's big eyes. Middle of the Red Movie.

[00:57:34] A classic. But as the movie goes on, when you're starting to realize like... She's done it. Right. I feel like the movie distorts her innate sympathetic, empathetic, vulnerable qualities in a way that makes you realize how powerful those qualities are.

[00:57:56] I don't know if there's another actress alive today when they come on screen. I feel that invested in and worried about their well-being as you do when you're watching a Sarah Polly movie. Because she just seems so sad all the time. She's got a sad face.

[00:58:09] She reminded me a lot of... And actually, I watched this recently, so it's probably why it reminded me a lot of it. But I thought... I kept thinking of Sissy's Basic and Carrie. Sure. That same sort of look of a person. Highly expressive. Yeah.

[00:58:21] And then you want hers to be okay. She looks so delicate. Yeah. You just like, please come. I want to give you a sweater. Right. Like give her a sweater. Carrie really would have... If Piper Laurie had just given her a fucking sweater. She just needed a sweater.

[00:58:33] She just needs a sweater. But there's that... And adequate feminine hygiene explanations. But both very pale actresses. Yes. There's that moment in this movie after she has a spoiler slept with Vanessa Shaw. Sure. Literally though. Right. Not like... Right. She tries to... There's some stuff. There's some massaging.

[00:58:55] They get a little... There's a theme in this movie. The back. The massaging. There's a lot of that. Because it's so intricately linked, both story lines. Yes. Where she's like... Get now. ...backs. Sorry, Carrie. There's that moment.

[00:59:09] They stay on like a sideways close up of her face lying in the bed. That starts with... Horizontal. Right. Vanessa Shaw massaging her and then continues as Vanessa Shaw walks away and she's talking her off in the distance. And like...

[00:59:25] She probably barely moves her face and speaks volumes. You're staying on her face for like a minute and a half, two minutes, and you could like zoom in and barely notice muscles. It's on the poster. Yeah. It's on the poster. For real? Yeah, the poster is...

[00:59:43] The poster's terrible though. You're not gonna... Sean Penn just... Face. And then hurly applying suntan lotion in a bikini. It looks like a fucking mass representation of this. It looks like a sexy beach movie. Like it does not look anything like the movie actually is. Look at that.

[00:59:59] The color is like all bronze. Like it's got this sort of sunny... But it looks like the publicity company saw this movie and was like... What do we do? It's also... It's a very early 2000s poster where it's like a lot of boxes. Yeah, remember that? Colossus.

[01:00:18] And then there's a lot of things in boxes. Borders that overlap like the same picture, but there's a border in the middle of it. I'm exaggeratedly raising my hands up in the air.

[01:00:29] Can I tell you what my relationship was to this movie before watching it for this episode? Well, you'd wade water like we all have every day. Every day. We used to recidally graduate into ice caves. Yes.

[01:00:40] The problem was I didn't use cups so I just kept on pouring water on top of a scale. And just to be clear, one liter of water weighs about 2.2 pounds. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

[01:00:53] Is that the missing piece of the puzzle that we need to figure out this movie? I just couldn't mention it. All right, so now that we know that... What does this mean? I remember going to see a one-hour photo with my father when it came out.

[01:01:04] The Mark Romantic picture which we talked about being totally fine. Okay. That's a movie about a guy who's a creep. Yes. Sucked up. So that's like a weird uncomfortable like cold movie, right? Yeah. It's like what if a guy was a real creepo? Right. And I was 13.

[01:01:22] And then at the end it turned out he was a creepo which you already knew. Sorry. I was 13. Yeah. I desperately wanted to see this Mark Romantic thriller. Sure. Well, you were probably like hyped for like serious Robin Williams and like into the

[01:01:35] Oscar implications of it because that's why I saw it. That thing. And then also just like I was like 13. I can see grown-up movies as long as my dad takes me. Yes. I like movies that are about creepy things, right?

[01:01:48] So I remember seeing that which is like not a movie that should appeal to children unless you're a young Oscar handicapper. Right. Exactly. And even so like sitting at the Union Square Theater opening night to see one-hour photo and being hyped. Oh, I'm getting night.

[01:01:59] When the weight of water trailer came on I was like, oh, that looks like some grown-up shit. Yeah. I remember just having this feeling of like that looks like that's one step on what I as a 13 year old am interested in seeing.

[01:02:09] I feel like you're not far off the mark though because like watching this movie, I was like this is now as I think about it, I'm like this is what as a 13 year old I've been like this is what adult movies are like. Right.

[01:02:18] Like if I, this is the kind of movie I remember like going into my mom's room and she'd be watching something that looked like this on a VHS. And I'd be like, what's this? And she'd be like, it's a movie. This director, she was pretty good, you know?

[01:02:28] And like it's all about these human relationships. Right. But like they're like past trauma as an angst. Because there were times when I was like eight or nine where my mom would be like, well, you're not in a good way. No.

[01:02:39] There were those times where I'd be like eight or nine, my mom would have rented a video from like Couch Potato across the street and it would be like an Oscar movie that I had heard of that I want to watch. Like, oh, LA Confidential.

[01:02:50] That one looks cool and she'd be like, you can't watch this. It's rated R. Right. And then, and I try to sneak in and sometimes I'd walk in and it'd be something that looked like weight of water and I'd be like, I'm good.

[01:02:59] I'm going to go back to watching Rugrats. Like I don't need to punch a love above my intellectual weight class. This looks like some boring grown up shit. I remember that Malani joke about his dad getting one cup of black coffee. Yes, yes.

[01:03:09] That's what this movie is one black coffee. Yeah. It's like there's nothing for children here. That having been said, I think I like this movie a little more than the three of you. No, I'm not actually, this is like a solid two star movie.

[01:03:24] Maybe two and a half. I watched it and I was like, I think this is fine. I mean, it's clearly made by like a skilled craftsman, you know. But it's building to something and then it's like, I built to it. What do you think?

[01:03:37] And I was like, I give it two stars as well. But the thing to note that the context here is that I'm a person who Rub that context against the mic just so we can hear it. I can hear it barely. Okay.

[01:03:48] The context here is that I'm a person who tends to rate in fours and fives. I like to like movies. Sure. Very generous. So this is a guarantee. Yes, this is a guarantee. You got to weigh that down. Wow. Let me read Emma. Your review on letter box.

[01:04:04] Have you seen her review? I have not. Everyone should follow me on letter box. Now, Emma, you don't give star rating. I don't. I used to, but I just, it's too much work. Yeah. I don't know. I don't care. It's better that way. David Sims owes me 299.

[01:04:21] Oh, me as well. I'll be submitting my invoice to you at the end of this episode. I bought this movie on iTunes because it was so cheap to buy it. It's like $6. Like cause like they were just like, fuck it. Who cares? Support film.

[01:04:33] So I was like for an extra $2 versus renting and buying. I'll buy it. It isn't actually a $6 because you pointed out on your Twitter that it is 899. Is it 899? No, I think it was less than that. Okay. I can't remember how much I spent. I spent less than $10.

[01:04:48] You heard about the fistful of dollars. I spent a fistful of dollars buying this movie. Call me the man with no name. My mom used to be on my Amazon account in terms of like streaming. It used to be linked to my account,

[01:04:59] but she didn't understand the difference between renting and buying. So I would get these emails that I had just purchased The Other Woman. Great. And I'm like proud of the curation of my movie collections. Like both my physical media,

[01:05:12] but also if I go into my digital, my cloud, I go like these are all movies I like. And then every time I scroll through them, I'm like fuck I own The Other Woman and Deadpool. Deadpool? Like on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[01:05:23] That's no good, but The Other Woman who cares? Who cares? So what? Deadpool was funny. What? I laughed. I had a great time. I thought Deadpool was good. I thought it was funny. I thought Deadpool was fine. I just, I wouldn't own it. No. I wouldn't own it.

[01:05:38] I had laughed in the theater. I sat there and I went okay. Yeah. Cool. That's on doing that. I know you hate it there. I don't like that. Angel of the Morning, great song. Sure. I mean okay. Again. Just call me Angel of the... Like yeah.

[01:05:51] She knows what she likes. I was talking to that again. I was talking to Emma before this podcast and I was like, I feel like I have like a handful of ways just to piss David off through it.

[01:05:59] Like it's not like a movie has never played Angel of the Morning before. No it's not but I'm saying like that is a way to get me on board with a movie. I think the first Charlie's Angels, right? Sure. Yeah. Great gig. Yeah. Great bit.

[01:06:14] I don't even know if you're doing it. I'm not. I think in the movie, I don't even know if you're doing it. I'm not. I think in the Tom Green Chad scene, they just call me...

[01:06:24] Charlie's Angels, considering there was directed by McGee and features Tom Green and Matt LeBlanc as two of the three boyfriends has aged interestingly. Yeah. Yeah. That is a movie that really feels frozen in time. See here was my shift between the first Kingsman and the second Kingsman.

[01:06:41] Oh my God. All right. Go for it. The first Kingsman I was like, Verhoeven and the second Kingsman, I was like, is Matthew Vaughn McGee? Yeah. The action... Right? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[01:06:54] The action in Kingsman 2 is really bad and it's just him doing the same trick he did in Kingsman 1 that like the fake long shot where his camera's doing all these sort of CGI swivels. Which I find entertaining. Yeah. It's entertaining when you see it once. Sure.

[01:07:08] I agree with Griff. I think it's entertaining. That's my bottom line. There you go. You can get sloppier in its execution and the second one and they overdo it, much like they overdo everything. You know what?

[01:07:20] I felt like I needed six more instances of Elton John turning to the camera and literally going like, hmm. I will admit I clapped in delight every time he showed us. So many times. Like twice within one fight scene. I did not enjoy Elton John's cameo.

[01:07:35] I do know you hated it. Extended cameo in... And I love Elton John as a musician. Oh, no. That's my fourth thing that I liked about Kingsman is that Elton John does a fly kick. It's all I need out of the movie.

[01:07:45] No, you see, I gotta see this now. Yeah. We're going right after this. If Elton John did a fly kick in a way of water, would you give it five? Yes, I would. I absolutely would. I mean, that would be an interesting move.

[01:07:56] If Elton John showed up playing the saxophone. If he... What if that was the way they linked the two segments at the end of the movie? Was they realized the entire movie was the fantasy of Elton John playing the

[01:08:06] saxophone and imagining two stories that would be sound tracked well by that musical. Five stars liked on Letterbox. Oh my God. It is weird that the soundtrack and some of the imagery makes this movie feel very like

[01:08:18] Red Shoe Diaries, where it kept on film, this movie was going to explode in torrid sexuality. That's very generous because again, my point of reference was just Masterpiece Theater. Sure. But there's not a good episode. There's a weird CD thing. Maybe it is mostly just the music. Yeah.

[01:08:34] But then it's like, oh, there's a back rub and a nice cue. I was expecting a lot of weird, sexy stuff from this. Right? It did not deliver. It felt like the movie was ready to come out with the weird sexy stuff.

[01:08:43] My first note when I started watching this was like, this movie's about swimmers, which turned out to not be true at all. No. It's about people who think maybe one day they'll swim. But no, I don't think so. I really thought everyone was going to fuck.

[01:08:55] Well on the yacht. Just all at the same time. On the yacht, definitely. And it would connect the two timelines because then in the past everyone would be... Yeah, it would be like a Sense 8 orgy scene where everyone's just boning. And they would just...

[01:09:05] Oh, and they would do it in exactly the same place because they went to the past. It would bridge the timelines. Like if the yacht came to like a time tunnel and like somehow they crashed on Smuddy Nose Island and then they all had sex. Okay. Yeah.

[01:09:17] Here's my pitch. Here's my pitch. The two quartets fuck at the same time. They're cross cutting. Then suddenly the images start flickering. Like animal sex scene stuff? Sure. And it turns out they're like freaky Fridaying each other. It's like the Jetsons meet the Flintstones and they go back.

[01:09:35] That's not what this movie is about. See, this movie is not a sex thrill. I'm saying what if it was? It's decidedly not a sex thrill. What if it was a time traveling sex thriller that became a fish out of water comedy? Oh my God.

[01:09:47] What are we doing on this boat? What are we doing in Smuddy Nose? And Liz Hurley is in Kieran Hines' body. And they're all flip flopped. Yeah. But this is not that movie.

[01:10:00] This is a movie where like, I mean the crucial final thing is that Catherine McCormick who has been sort of quietly jealous of Elizabeth Hurley during this big storm decides to not warn her that the sailboats are going to swing around.

[01:10:18] Did she come above the cabin because she was seasick? Why did she come up in the first place? Yes, because she's seasick. She's going to barf. Why would you just throw up in the boat if the storm is like this? I don't want to get so dirty.

[01:10:31] There's like so much shit that you could barf into and take care of it later. No, she comes out to throw up over the side of the boat. So fucking stupid. Catherine McCormick comes out to rescue her I guess. No, she was steering the boat.

[01:10:42] She's steering the boat and then she just sort of quietly lets her get knocked over seat. Yeah. Overboard. Oh no. It's this like sort of murder by omission, right? Like that's like what Catherine Bigel is trying to build to this tricky like

[01:10:57] that she sort of doesn't do, but in doing it does do something. I thought that was going to happen with Penn because she has such open contempt for Penn the whole movie. Yeah, well he's a shit head. The picked is being such a shit head.

[01:11:08] I actually kind of like Penn in this movie because I think it's one of the only movies to fully make use of everything that's grody about Sean Penn. Usually movies ask us to like Sean Penn.

[01:11:18] Even a Mystic River where he's playing like, you know, like a violent like sociopathic like criminal. Yeah. Like what, but he's going through a lot. And this movie from top to bottom is like, fuck this guy.

[01:11:31] So I was like all four Sean Penn falling over the side of the boat. Well, but then he does. Yeah. I mean, right? That's the idea is like she tries to balance the universe in one way and

[01:11:40] the universe sort of balances back at her and because he goes into rescue Liz Hurley and then he drowns. I think we're saying as we could have just cut out the middleman here. Like you're saying just like knock him over with the sail.

[01:11:50] Because you want him, but she wants to make this intimate drama about like, you know, like emotional betrayal or whatever. But it's also it's a drama about and I have no larger point here, but I just think it needs to be called out about women murdering

[01:12:08] other women or attempting to. Sure. Right. Because this is cross cutting with Sarah Pauley killing someone with a chair and then killing the next person with an axe. And then ultimately paying the price. And then she like sits down and murder. Right.

[01:12:22] So what do they have for dinner? What does she eat or does she just drink tea? I think she just drank the tea or at least I was not paying attention for any food in the actual murder.

[01:12:32] There was a meal prepared that Wagner, the guy who did it, he ate the meal. He did. Yeah. It was like set out on the table for the husbands to like come home and eat it.

[01:12:44] And he just sort of took a little bit of it with him and left. I feel like he might have done it. But wait, I had this whole, this is the only movie she's made about marriage.

[01:12:56] I did kind of wonder halfway through if this was like going to turn out to be and I hesitated to use this word but like a feminist drama because like the whole point of Sarah Pauley's drama is like she's experiencing this extreme stress at home. Sure.

[01:13:11] She's been backed into except she's except it's incest. So you're not, it's not just that. It's not just that. Yeah. It's not just that because the first chunk of the movie before she was married, she was married to the first couple of

[01:13:21] families and you start to get those notes. It's just this is a shitty marriage. And her husband keeps being like we're going to have some more people staying over and it's like no. One of the saddest sex scenes I've ever seen in a film. Yeah.

[01:13:32] But big, big, big hello. Bam, bam, big. Hello. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has only been married the one time. Is that correct? The one time? Am I correct on this? Let me see. I don't want to. According to Wikipedia. Yes. Which was a pretty short marriage.

[01:13:48] Like a couple of years. She has been in a very long term relationship that she does not talk about. She was also dating Mark Boll for a while. That was a thing. I mean, I think that's, that's been rumored.

[01:14:02] I think I felt like they publicly acknowledged that and they are no longer dating anymore. Oh, I don't know maybe. I just think, I mean, not to over read into it, but I think it is kind of the dating segment of the show.

[01:14:13] We do, we do that a lot. I do think there's something to the fact that she only had one short live marriage and has been in relationships since then, but doesn't seem to be interested in getting married again. And this movie presents marriage as being a bomber.

[01:14:25] That's right. That's what I was getting at. This is a movie about marriage that's like marriage is an emotional cage. Right. That leads to death. Yeah. And despair. No one else is having a good time either though. Well, I think Josh Lucas and Liz Hurley were having an

[01:14:42] okay time on their yachts. Before these bummer married. They infected them with married bombs. Push my mic away. Vanessa Shaw is happy to be married to the boy. Oh, she's having a great time. She's pretty free spirited. Yeah, they are both cute.

[01:15:00] He's less cute once you find out that he was involved in some incest though. Yeah, a little bit less cute. Sure. I mean, this is not a movie. It's a bit of a red flag for me. It's not going for cute. No, it's not.

[01:15:14] This movie is so fucking hard to explain. I watched it with Joanna. She like weirdly paid attention. She was like baking during the cookies. Kind of cookie chocolate chip. And you didn't bring any for us. No, they are in my home. I had two this morning.

[01:15:30] Nuts are now. No nuts. Well done. So she was sort of in and out, but she watched like 70% of this movie. And then at the end, you got your credits rolling and we were just like, that was weird. I mean, it's sort of a, it's sort of,

[01:15:44] I don't know what I'm supposed to take away. The movie also doesn't really end. It's just like a bunch of things happen and then credits roll. Correct. Yeah. I don't want any more from it though. No, for sure. No, this movie took five hours out of my life.

[01:15:56] Oh God, thanks for being over. Five hours? How dare you? It is 113 minutes. No, it's five hours long. It's not short. I'll tell you what movie took five hours out of my fucking life is Kingsman the Golden Circle. I will say, despite sitting there pleasantly entertained enough,

[01:16:11] if not, you know, morally distraught. I did sit there and go, this feels like it's five hours long. For which movie? For Kingsman. Isn't it two hours and 20 minutes? Yeah. Is it 220? It's 220. You could have told me that movie was three hours. I would have believed it.

[01:16:25] It felt like. It's a breathy two and a half hours feels like one hour of my life went by. It was great. Felt very long. You guys definitely team Kingsman the Golden Circle. You guys hear how long. It's like two hours 45. Yeah, 250.

[01:16:40] I think I might just not do it. Really? I hear it's good. Have you heard how long? I've heard the opposite. From who? I'm not telling you. Ryan Gosling. Have you heard my personal friend Ryan? Have you heard how long daddy's home to is?

[01:16:52] No, how long is it? Four hours and 56 minutes. Yeah, we're doing it. Bellatara directed it. You don't know this? Bellatara's Daddy's Home To. Yeah. Daddy's Home To is the decalogue of. I don't have any real desire to see that movie, but every time I watch the trailer.

[01:17:07] Daddy's Home To? That movie looks like a nightmare. Let's talk about Daddy's Home To. Oh my God. The reveal of John Lithgow is the most successful piece of comedy. Every time I see him coming down the escalator to level keep us together, I'm like, I'm gonna watch it.

[01:17:21] It is so well said. I went back and watched Daddy's Home One because of how well they land that joke in the trailer for two. How did it hold up? First one's solid. I've said this on the podcast. I'll say it again.

[01:17:31] It's just totally solid character based comedy. All right, I have to speak about this. Daddy's Home To? I did not see Daddy's Home Because I didn't want to, right? Despite the fact that Sophia Coppola says one of the best movies is the 21st.

[01:17:42] Then she said that and then on our Memento episode. Amy Nicholson stands for the movie because she likes John Cena. And you said what you just said, which is it's solid. I put that shit on 15 minutes in. I was dying. That movie sucks. Not sure. Not sure.

[01:17:57] It's solid. I hate movies. One, I hate movies. I hate movies now. I hate movies. One that's been the first half hour setting up a premise that it takes one minute to get. 25 minutes in there.

[01:18:12] Like so you know the thing about it is like Will Ferrell's kind of a stick in the mud and Mark Wahlberg's kind of a bad boy. And I'm like, yeah, you know, no, I get it.

[01:18:19] David, you got to live with these characters to really get them in your bones. Number two, you got emotionally invested in them. Really usually just don't like the Will Ferrell plays the straight arrow thing. You have Taladigonites. Taladigonites is amazing.

[01:18:32] Yeah, I was gonna say that is the feral that you're looking for. Yes, that's a good call. But like I'm trying to because I think there is one feral movie where he's... Other guys? Yeah, but that's...

[01:18:41] But the whole point of other guys is that that character is a psycho, right? Which is which I love. See, I like straight man Will Ferrell. I don't like straight man Will Ferrell because like think of name me some straight man Will Ferrell movies. Stranger than fiction.

[01:18:54] That movie rolls. I'm not because it's a better term than fiction. Other guys, I mean, yes, it is true that he is technically a psycho in the other guys. Yeah, the bit where he goes, America!

[01:19:04] Like the whole point of that movie is that Mark Wahlberg is secretly the straight man. Right. Because the scene where they have dinner with Eva Mendes is the one where Mark Wahlberg realizes like, oh, wait a second, this guy is not what he appears.

[01:19:15] He's out of his mind. And his whole... And I don't know when he's trying to point this out and no one will acknowledge it. His whole backstory and all of that. I'm now trying to think of what other feral straight man movies are.

[01:19:24] I mean, I just felt like on SNL he was one of the best straight men they ever had. That's true. That was the key to his versatility was that. Right. I mean, like Will Ferrell as Alex Trebek is like one of the great straight men. Right.

[01:19:37] That's very true. But a whole movie... But I hate it when he's cheerful. Cheerful straight man, you know? I like that. Because Trebek is kind of this sort of buttoned up like kind of... He's bottled. Raging straight man. Raging straight man.

[01:19:49] You know what we don't give SNL enough credit for? Go ahead. Keeping the mustache on Trebek even after real life. Yes, yes. I agree. Because they just doubled down on... The mustache is crucial. They double down on like this is its own character.

[01:20:02] Like this has so little correlation to the real Alex Trebek at this point. Yeah, straight man, Will Ferrell. Anyway, it's a good argument to have. Yeah. But I'm really not interested in daddy's home too. When Linda Cardellini calls... She should call him a snowflake or a cuck.

[01:20:18] I can't remember. Snowflake. Yeah, it's bad. She should have such a good career. Yeah, what if F happened? I don't know. You know what happened? Ten years on ER. She's looking for Jason Segal. No, that is not why. I know, I know, I know. That's the dirty word.

[01:20:31] We're about to date talk now. I do think that ER... Yeah, ER kind of handcuffs any actor. And it was kind of like a pit. Like she spent like ten seasons on filmmaking and all the time. It wasn't ten. She's on it for like six.

[01:20:42] But like she had a rough character too. Her character was like the character who was always... There was always like bad boyfriends and like... She was quote unquote kind of a little trashy and it was like really bad. I think she's done some good work on something.

[01:20:57] She was great on Mad Men. Yeah, I think she's the best part of Avengers 2. The extent I wish the rest of the movie was about her when she entered. James Spader is the best part of Avengers 2. Linda Cardellini is the best part of Avengers 2.

[01:21:09] Andy Serkis is the best part of Avengers 2. Okay. Thank you guys. Lady is nice. Here we go again. All the time. Oh god. What a KB. Oh yeah. She's great in a broke back. Let me ask you a question. Sure.

[01:21:23] Is Jeremy Renner a KB or does he cross the threshold into being too much of a movie star? Because he feels like a tweener to me. He is a tweener. He's back and forth. I loved him in American Hustle.

[01:21:32] But I haven't felt like anything has measured up to how much... I loved him in that movie. Because like born legacies probably a total turn off for you. Yeah, it's bad. But then you see him in like American Hustle. Yeah, that pompadour really did it for me.

[01:21:45] He smells like a KB in there. He's the best performance in American Hustle. He's great. I agree with that. He needs to do more... Basically if you dress any actor up to look like they're doing a character actor bit, I will love it. Emma Sifanski. Yeah.

[01:21:59] What are your thoughts on Jeremy Renner? I just wanted to give him the floor first. Oh, I think he's great. I think he's very talented. I think he's very funny. He's very funny in a very subdued way, which I like a lot in... Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible.

[01:22:13] I knew you were going to say it. But I'll say this, I think... He's funny in those movies and I'm worried about him not being in... I agree. Yeah, because they were playing someone with Cavill? Yes. No, no. Yeah, but that must ask. That's Cavill. That's asked up.

[01:22:25] Emma gets it. My thing with Jeremy Renner, I've said it before, I'll say it again. He is one of our finest character actors. No, we agree on this. He almost always is misutilized as a leading man,

[01:22:38] except for the one film we're going to talk about in this miniseries, where he's incredible. She's so good. Yeah, he's terrific. But everyone went after that. Oh, I guess he's a leading actor. He almost misread that. Yeah. Yeah. How you doing, Ben? I'm good. Water. Water. It's heavy.

[01:22:56] I like water normally, but I like wet stuff. I like wet movies. It's a wet movie, but this is a wet movie. The credits all take place underwater and you still fell asleep. Yeah, no. To be fair, the credits are sleepy. They're a big snoozer.

[01:23:10] The credit I paid attention to the credit. Is it just like water? It feels like an amnia music video. Shimmering water. It's like artifacts underneath the water. That's exactly what it is. And then they just bring up some like, the artificial articles, like under, like...

[01:23:21] It's like watching a power player presentation. I went and like made myself dinner while the credits were going. Hey, what about that dumb thing in this movie where they like sometimes freeze frame in the middle of a scene? Oh yeah, that was awful.

[01:23:32] And you think your player's just freezing up, but it turns out to be a deliberate choice. And then she has that later line where she says, I remember when we met and you said, we're both just trying to figure out how to stop time.

[01:23:41] Yeah, but they like stop freezing stuff. They freeze stuff at like the first 10 minutes. Three times. A lot of her. Yeah, and then they never do it again. Do they make the noise like it's a photograph? Like... No. They didn't.

[01:23:52] And that's what I thought it was going to do because she's a photographer. So it would make sense. She also, the weird like negative shot she does when she cuts to the murder. Sure. Of the house where it's like, you know, that's weird too. Yeah, I agree.

[01:24:03] She makes some... The stuff, and I'm just remembering this now because I totally forgot about it until now, but the stuff I think like the actual murder part that isn't at the end, like the stuff that you see before. Yes, right. Right early on too.

[01:24:17] When it's like there, when they're going through the whole like, oh, he did it, blah, blah, blah. And that, the stuff, the way that that stuff is shot is actually really interesting. I liked those bits. It was very like a Murnau movie. She's a good director.

[01:24:27] She's a good director. I think the murder scenes are pretty effective. I agree. And I also feel like even in some of those boat scenes that are very uninterestingly written, you know, functionally acted. Yeah. Uninteresting in terms of the dramatics of what's actually happening.

[01:24:44] I do think it's that thing that's like a test of a good filmmaker is like, how well you can shoot a dialogue scene. Yeah. That is innately unsanimatic. And you look at how she balances like the degree of... She's really good at holding back

[01:25:00] on close-ups unless she actually needs them to make a point. And there's the scene where she tells Elizabeth Hurley about Sean Penn's car accident and she goes in really, really tight on McCormack's face. Right. Like cutting off a large section of her face.

[01:25:12] That's a good, that's a decent scene. The only problem with it is that you don't really know what the fuck Sean Penn's talking about. You just know that it's bad. You're like, you know that it's affecting her. Right. And she plays that very well.

[01:25:21] But I just think that scene is very well directed. It just feels like a half of the movie that doesn't need to be part of the story. And what you're saying about like how interesting the murder scenes are, it makes you wish that she just made that movie.

[01:25:34] Yeah. That she had read this book. I think that's like the first point that we came around to that was like it should have just been the Norwegian stuff. Period. You just imagine her mom dies. She reads this book. She connects to the Norwegian thing. Right? Exactly. Right.

[01:25:48] Maybe she connects to the present day stuff in terms of having a shitty husband. Right? Yes. Right. But that she should have gone... A shitty artistic husband. Right. Oh, this book introduced me to this real life story. Now I'm going to do more research into this story.

[01:25:59] Just do the Smuddy Nose Murder. Right. Because it felt like that could have been a pretty small... You could call it Smuddy Nose. Why it's called Smuddy Nose Island? Because when they came over there, one of the guys in the boat was like,

[01:26:08] it looks like the dirty nose of a sea creature. Because it's got seaweed or something, right? So the dried black seaweed on it. Also that nose likes to fuck. Oh God. Because it's smuddy. It's a porno obsessed nose. This is what it's like working with Griffin Newman.

[01:26:24] Oh yeah. She knows she works with Karen. Yeah. She gets it. You don't have to explain. Yeah, it's like... There is the Pyro Dynamics. It's not an as if situation. I'm living in this every day. Every day. But we rule. You know, I'm just learning too that

[01:26:42] he escaped from jail after they got him. Like twice? Yeah, twice. So like you could have a whole subplot about him escaping from jail. Sure. Because there's a whole crucial thing where Sarah Polly at the end confesses and she's like he didn't do it. Yeah.

[01:26:56] And they're just like, well, you are hysterical and we already killed him so let's just close the book on this. You know, like they don't... And it's sort of a weird anti-climactic ending. Yeah. I do think there's... This thing where like I feel like Katherine Bigelow

[01:27:14] works in duologies. Like every two movies of hers kind of feel connected to each other. We talk about how Loveless and your Dark are very similar. They're movies about subcultures, right? And sort of like anthropological studies of how they exist. Yes, and Blue Steel and Pointbreaker definitely.

[01:27:31] Are very much like the stylish like thriller element. And they're both films very focused on the genders of their characters and those dynamics of them existing in the world. Strange Days is kind of the outlier because that feels like the one chance she got to make

[01:27:43] exactly the movie she wanted to make with a big budget, right? And that didn't work. And then like K-19 and Weight of Water are her like boring diptych. Boring water movies. Right. There are the two movies that feel like her being like,

[01:27:56] how do I make a grown-up movie? Like what's my like if I move away from genre, you know? And then I think Zerdark 30 and Herlacher very much of a piece. And I think Detroit fails because it misidentifies the things that worked about Zerdark 30 and Herlacher.

[01:28:11] Well, Detroit is like the Rattle and Hum where it's like she's like let's do a third one. A third Mark Boles script, a third recreation of a historical event, a third sort of like, you know, amoral, very, very intense detailed recreation of something.

[01:28:27] And people are like no, no, no, you don't get to say you, you're taking back Helter Skelter. But also the biggest difference is that like Herlacher and Zerdark 30 are both character pieces and Detroit is not. Right. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that.

[01:28:43] For sure. We'll get to that. The Weight of Water was released at the 2000 Toronto Film Festival. Right. Didn't come out until two years later. It gets eventually picked up by Lionsgate and released two years later. It's released in Italy in 2001. Why? I don't know. Interesting.

[01:29:00] Italians love the Smutty Nose murders. They love it. Smutty Nose. They're all just fascinated with Maine culture. Very similar. So, US debut, I just want to make clear. Is it the Maine International Film Festival in 2001? Oh boy. Wow. It finally comes out.

[01:29:18] USA November 1st, 2002 after it premiered on video in Serbia. Wow. What was the thing I was going to say? Okay. So, Books Office game 2002. I guess the hours was probably pretty high on the charts, right? Wait, where are you trying to get ahead of the game?

[01:29:35] I'm trying to guess the Books Office. Books, I hate you. Exhausted. Go to Books Office. Oh no. I'm at least favorite person. No, I like you. Books Office Moja. This movie, I just want to tell you in total, okay, across $109,000. Not a great amount of money.

[01:29:53] Not a lot. It's about what, one hundred and sixtieth of its budget or whatever? Yeah. Like it's not covering one might say. Sure. It was released in 27 theaters on November 1st. It was out of theaters three weeks later. Well, wait. So, short run it. It debuts at number 53.

[01:30:14] Three. The Box Office was $45,000. That is bad. So not a great debut. No. Not something you really can build on there. It does come in ahead of the IMAX Haunted Castle movie. What? Was it opening that weekend? Well, no, that's in its 85th week. Okay. Holy shit.

[01:30:33] So I'm just saying, so way to water, not in the top five for the Box Office. Sure. Sure. The Box Office game. Number one, November 1st, 2002 is a Christmas movie. A sequel. Santa Claus 2? Santa Claus 2. The Escape Claus? The Escape Claus, which comes out,

[01:30:53] let's see, eight years after the first Santa Claus? 2006, 2004. No, it was 2004. I'm sorry, 1994. What am I saying? It was 1994, wasn't it? No. All right. So a bunch of stuff. Yes. So it comes out in 1994. Okay, now that. Second comes out in 2002. The third one is the Escape Claus.

[01:31:12] Oh, oh, oh. That's 2006 with Martin Short as Jack Frost. Oh yeah. It's called the Mrs. Claus. Wonderful. Love it. I guess so. It doesn't have an actual, like on-screen subtitle. Maybe it was used in some of the... Who here has seen the Santa Claus 2?

[01:31:26] I've seen like Martin Short's bits. That is three. That is three. That's the Escape Claus. We're talking about the Mrs. Claus. Tell me about Santa Claus 2. I mean, I don't really remember much of it, but I had a good time. Who's his wife? Elizabeth Mitchell. Yeah.

[01:31:42] They realize there's a Mrs. Claus where... Remember how in the first one he starts turning into Santa Claus? Yeah. They realize if you're not married within, oh, seven years of the first film, that

[01:31:52] you start turning back into a normal guy so he has to find a Mrs. Claus or else he'll stop being Santa. So he starts getting skinny again and his hair starts turning brown. It's just trying to do the opposite of the first movie's bit, but less interesting.

[01:32:05] I mean, falling in love with him breaks the curse. It's like a reverse beauty in the beast. I saw the Santa Claus 1 in theaters with my brother and he was very young. He burst into tears when Santa Claus died. Oh my God.

[01:32:19] I got very emotional when he gives Judge Reinhold the toy he always wanted as a kid. That's a nice bit at the end of the first Santa Claus. The first Santa Claus is okay. I think solid. Yeah. Santa Claus 2 is number five in Box Office Mojo's comedy-fat suit.

[01:32:34] What's 4 through 1? Okay. Number one, I do not think belongs in this category. It's Mrs. Doubtfire. No, that's fine. That's not a fat suit. That's a chubb suit. He's just wearing makeup. He's wearing, yes, he has become a new character. He's got a chubb suit on. Sure.

[01:32:52] What do you see him without the dress? He's got a chub suit on. And then it's awesome powers. There is a scene where he gets the suit made for him by the guy. Right, but it's not really like... The woman suit.

[01:32:59] Weight is not really the sort of thing that's going on there. It's turning into an old woman. That's what's happening there. But then number two is gold member? Number two is gold member, number three is Spice and Shagney. Which fat fester only has one scene in gold member.

[01:33:11] He's in it. Yeah, but I mean you want to call that a fat suit comedy? I don't know. His weight of water and ice cube thriller in that case? Oh yeah. I guess so. Then you've got Santa Claus 1 and 2. Then you've got the Nutty Professors 1 and 2.

[01:33:22] Big Mama's House, sure. Then you've got hairspray. Sure. Which again is a little tricky, but her size is more of a plot point. It's a plot point. Yeah. Nutty Professors 1 and 2. Big Mama's House and Dodgeball is number 10 because there's the Ben Affleck is... The fucking epilogue?

[01:33:37] Ben still or even... No, it's more than the epilogue, right? He's in like a few scenes where you see him... No, because it's at the end after he loses, he starts gaining weight. No, I remember her. I remember her. I think it's only the epilogue. And then Norbit.

[01:33:49] Sure. And then there's just like a lot of Tyler Perry movies. And shallow how... What a list that is. What is number two at the box office? Number two at the box office is a horror film. It was number two the week before, but it has only dropped 2%.

[01:34:07] Is it The Ring? It's The Ring. Oh yeah! Because the opposite of a usual horror movie, which is like opens big, drops immediately. Right. Because The Ring only opened in like the high teens, right? The Ring opening weekend was $15 million.

[01:34:21] Right, not great, but then it stayed because it crossed 100, which is a really good multiple. It's second weekend, it makes $18 million. And in its third weekend, it makes $18 million. Oh! And in its fourth weekend, it makes $15 million. Gork, gork, gork! Huge word of mouth, word of mouth, it.

[01:34:42] Good movie. A stylish movie from a great filmmaker. You're not shaking hands. How do you feel about Gork? I love him here, I think he's great. He's cool. Yeah, you guys are a total maniacs, you gotta know. I like the... He's a likable director. He is.

[01:34:58] I'm not like obsessed or anything. Sure, I'm with you, right exactly. You guys Rango on the reg? I love Rango. I love Rango. Rango is his best movie. You love Bugs and Lizards, it's a big Bugs and Lizards movie. That's my bit. You're the queen of the bugs.

[01:35:11] That's true. Emma's bit we should know is that she's queen of bugs. I love them, they're great. The E.B.s, Emma's bugs. Emma's bugs? Yeah, E.B.s. Karen Boyce. The E.B.G.Bs. The E.B.G.Bs. Thanks for laughing, Karen.

[01:35:24] I'm not gonna give people. No laugh here. The Ring. 25 days. I think the original's better. I've only seen the original, I've never seen the remake. Asian Power is always scarier. I didn't find it scary. I think I looked at the remake.

[01:35:38] I think because I knew what was gonna happen, like I knew I was gonna see her come out of the TV. I didn't know she was gonna come out of that mother fucking TV when I saw that movie.

[01:35:45] Do you know what I think The Ring does incredibly well? Uh-huh. I think it is one of the only movies to successfully pull off, and I can only speak for myself, but I felt very tricked by it, the fake out ending. Mmm.

[01:35:56] Because there's the point where they defeat Samara, and the movie's gone on long enough, and you think it's over and she wakes up the sun, and she goes like, we're cured, and then there's another 20 minutes of the movie. Yeah, no, that's a good call. It doesn't fake out.

[01:36:06] Really well. I think that movie's good. I also think that movie was just generally, generationally important. Agreed. As like the first horror movie a lot of kids saw, because it was a PG-13, wasn't it? Right, I remember seeing that with like my entire eighth grade class,

[01:36:19] or whatever it was, and all of us flip in the fuck out. I also think the video is really good in the first place. It's scary. Because in the original it's also good, but it's just like so low quality, it's a little harder. Yeah. He's a master stylist.

[01:36:34] He's cute. Look at those Budweiser frogs, you know, those attitude things. All right, number three at the box office is a buddy comedy. It's a flop because it's opening number three. It was expensive. High five. Yeah, good job. Good job. I remember the vivid lead.

[01:36:50] This was like my eighth grade or whatever. I was in the pocket. Give her three leads. It's Eddie Murphy, Owen Wilson, Pham Kiancim. Who you've worked with, right? I worked with Jason too. Like my first movie ever did.

[01:37:04] Emma and I ran into her at an ice cream store about a month ago. It was amazing. She's so tall. She's a tall girl, which... And you're very tall. You say that. Yes. You're over six feet. Well, I think I am six feet. Maybe I'm six one.

[01:37:16] Okay, as is Pham Kiancim. Is she taller than you? We're the same height. Six feet. Wow. Gina Davis too? We're all six feet. She's tall girls. How's the air up there? You and Gina and Pham Kiancim. It's wonderful. Little thin.

[01:37:28] Pham Kiancim was like my biggest movie crush for a very long time. She's awesome. She's gorgeous. She's an ex-man. She's a next man. She's a family gorgeous. She is Jean Grey. It was all about Jean Grey. But I spy? No, not a hit.

[01:37:40] The audience has decided not to spy. Betty Thomas who was kind of right and high. That sort of killed things. Betty Thomas the director. It didn't Dr. D little which was humongous. But what did she direct later? Alvin and Chipmunks the squeak-cloth. Oh, God.

[01:37:55] Can you tell me what she directed in between though? It wasn't serving Sarah, was it? No. But it's that kind of movie? Yeah. Reginald Hudlin directed Serving Sarah. Right, fuck right. But it's two people. It's like that. It's a comedy that's just like...

[01:38:09] No, it's a teen comedy about someone... Oh, John Tucker must die? Oh boy. You must die. Okay. Number four is a low budget documentary comedy that had been number one the week before. Low budget documentary called Jack Astham movie. Nice. Which is a terrific movie.

[01:38:28] See, I saw all of these movies. This was like a big movie going time for me because I was like now allowed to see movies with my friends. I didn't even know fucking dad, the man to drag me the cineplex. Right.

[01:38:39] I could go see movies with Cody Lewis, Patrick Solomon. Shout him out. Dean DiGuardi. Great. What a bunch of guys. Skyler Rettich. These are the most like stereotypical teen names. Yeah, middle school. Yeah, it sounds like you lived in a teen novel.

[01:38:54] It's like, you know what I mean? Like you live in a... Jack T. Yeah. That's a good name. That's a pirate name. Yeah. Oh yeah. Number five is a movie, a horror movie I saw in theaters that I had a decent

[01:39:07] time with which is directed by, and this is my detail that I love, a man who's only made two movies and they both have the same word in the title. It's only made two movies, they both have the same word. He's like a totally anonymous director.

[01:39:20] I've never heard of him. Is this his first or second? Second. It's a horror film. It is an original horror picture. It is. And they never made a sequel? No. Didn't make that much money. Does it have a big star in it?

[01:39:31] No, it has a TV star in it who is kind of trying to make a leap to movies and it has a set piece right at the beginning that is gruesome. Interesting. Boy, oh boy, is it gruesome. Like notably like famous?

[01:39:43] I don't know about famous because there's nothing about this movie that's that famous but if you were going to remember something from this movie it's probably the opening scene which is gross. TV star was like a teen TV star? No, grown up TV star.

[01:39:55] In fact we've mentioned the show on air. Today? ER? It's an ER actor. Is it, uh, Juliana Marguline? Correct. Really? Is it Ghost Ship? Ghost Ship. Oh my God. Ghost Ship directed by? Fuck, I don't know. You don't know. Steve Beck who made 13 ghosts and then Ghost Ship.

[01:40:19] I was hoping both of them had shit. Right a year apart from each other that he never makes a movie again. What if he had directed Shipwrecked? That'd be great. That would be good. I think that would be a great move by him.

[01:40:30] Ghost Ship which stars Gabriel Byrne, Juliana, Carl Herb. Emily Browning, right? Emily Browning, a young Emily Browning, a 15-year-old girl. And the opening scene is some metal cable. There's a party on a ship. I remember this. Old timey.

[01:40:46] And then some cable gets loose and slices everyone in half. But in a way where they're all standing there for a second and then they all go like, yep. That's the only way you can do a habsi. Can you tell me what the tagline for Ghost Ship was?

[01:41:00] Ship happens? Ghost ship happens. Boy, here Emma do you want to read the tagline for me? Right up there. That's why I wanted her to see it. The tagline is See Evil with C. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's cool and funny. That's a good one.

[01:41:19] That's a good one. That's cool and funny. You just saw me, heard me laugh. Yes, yes, yes. And I love the poster too because the poster, I remember seeing the poster on the marquee being like, wow, it's really great.

[01:41:31] It's a ship but what if the ship was also us go? If I had seen that poster before knowing what the movie was called, I would assume it was called See Evil. Agreed, See Evil is more prominent and larger on the poster than the title. That's true.

[01:41:42] It actually is a little, or it looks like it stars someone called See Evil. Right. Like yeah, it's not the greatest poster. Maybe that contributes to its mediocre 30 million domestic growth. I'm here to see See Evil? Yeah, right.

[01:41:57] Let's be fair, if the Fast and Furious franchise can star an actor named Vin Diesel, this is your favorite fit. It's not that illogical to believe that a movie called Go Ship could star an actor named See Evil. But the See Evil's just sitting there and he's like,

[01:42:08] just waiting for the phone to ring and then finally they're like, Go Ship and he's like, the movie for me. That's my time's come. Mr. Evil. See. Oh, I'm sorry, we want you to be caterer. Not in the movie, Mr. See Evil.

[01:42:20] Other movies in the top 10, my big fat Greek wedding and its 29th week has made 185 million dollars. Well, it sounds like the end of its run that cannot make any more money. It's definitely not going to make another 65 million dollars. What?

[01:42:37] That box of a star and will never make sense. Ever, ever, ever, ever. It's so crazy. Nia Vardalos recently followed me on Twitter. Oh, congratulations. Thanks. Sweet Home Alabama also starring Mr. Josh Lucas is making healthy money. So he's killing it this weekend. He's just murdering it.

[01:42:55] He's number six and 53. What everybody wants. You want a real good spread? Sorry, seven and 15. Punch, Drunk, Love, Paul Thomas Anderson's lovely movie. That movie has, I think, aged incredibly well. It's perfect. It's a perfect movie, but I think it's a movie that's only gotten better with time.

[01:43:13] Yeah, for sure. So has this movie Red Dragon. Has only gotten better. We all remember it. Take that back. Ratner was like, what if I made Manhunter? But hear me out. Didn't do that great a job. What if Manhunter wasn't directed by Michael Mann?

[01:43:28] What if Manhunter wasn't directed by Michael Mann? And I'm like, I don't know. You're going to have to sell me out. The guy who's going to do it instead. Wait a second. No, no, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it.

[01:43:41] I got it. Brett Ratner. Do you know the story about Brett Ratner's parents had like a horrible custody battle? And when he was like nine, this is like Brett Ratner's Rosetta Stone. Are we not allowed to be mean to Brett Ratner anymore? No, you can definitely be mean.

[01:43:54] I'm not going to stop. I believe his parents were not married and there was a horrible custody battle and also like, I guess for child support. And he went with his school class on a field trip to court. Like that was a thing.

[01:44:05] I don't know if you ever did that. But like grew up in New York and be like, we're going to go to the courthouse and see how law works. And the case that was going on when they went on the field trip was his mother and

[01:44:14] his father arguing over the bastard Brett Ratner. No. I did not know that. How do you know that? Because I read a profile of Brett Ratner. But that feels like he walks into that courtroom, the bastard Brett Ratner and he walks out of

[01:44:28] that courtroom going like, I got to make everyone think I'm cool. You know? Great. He succeeded. I guess. Yeah. We all think you're cool now, Brett. So do you remember when he did X-Men 3 and he said, it's like I'm Wolver Steen. Did he actually say that?

[01:44:45] They called me Wolver Steen because I'm like the Jewish Wolverine. I don't care for that. He directed X-Men The Last Dan. Yeah, he directed X-Men 3. No, I remember that but I meant like the Wolver Steen story.

[01:44:55] He was the one, we'll never know if either he or Matthew Vaughan was the one who was like, let's get the juggernaut bitch meme in there. I would bet on it being Brett. Matthew Vaughan definitely cast Vinny Jones. Vinny. Vinny. He cast everyone in that movie. Yeah.

[01:45:10] He quit very shortly before they started filming. Weird. And then did the same thing with Thor and then did the same thing with Days of Future Pass. He did the same thing with Days of Future Pass. He was supposed to direct Thor. Yeah, I don't think he quit.

[01:45:22] Before Marvel Studios got the rights back. Right. I don't think he quit that late with Thor. Number 10 is Brown Sugar which is a great movie. I saw that in theaters. Rick Femi, you... Yeah. I don't know how you say his name. Yeah, good director.

[01:45:34] Who was going to make The Flash for a second there. Yeah. Of course, I'm directing The Flash now. Congratulations. This week. Number 14, this is the last thing I want to mention. Okay, Ben is having a great time. Attack of the Clones, the IMAX experience. Very nice.

[01:45:47] A movie I definitely went to see. I saw the IMAX cut which I've talked about is 20 minutes shorter. Because they had to fit it into the IMAX. What did they cut? All the romance. Oh, got it. Yeah. Sure. The testicle bugs are gone.

[01:46:02] Way to water doesn't stick around unfortunately. It does not. No. What number was it? 56. It was 53. Yeah. And I just... I want to repeat, I think it's interesting comes out after K-19. So she's really fucking... Yeah, because K-19 was a summer movie.

[01:46:21] K-19, our next episode was a summer movie this year. Right. So this is her boring water movie duology. Oh boy. And then she chills out for a sec and reboots. Wins a fucking Oscar. Wins an Oscar. That's how you do it. Congrats, Catherine.

[01:46:36] But like, you know, she makes weight of water. They bring it to festivals. It's met with a shrug. She's like, fuck. National Geographic offers her $100 million to make a submarine thriller with Harrison Ford. Oh yeah, okay.

[01:46:48] And it's like, great, okay, this is the way to get myself back on the map. That movie comes out as a huge flop and then to add insult to injury three months after that movie flops, they finally release the previous movie. Because they've already had a jump-in.

[01:46:58] And then that flops even harder. Yeah. So I mean, it's an amazing comeback story. Like the stage is set perfectly for her to fucking rewrite history. Which she does. Which she will. Bam, bam, big, lo. Just for inflation, Santa Claus opened to $44 million.

[01:47:15] I remember being struck because I thought the movie was a flop. I thought it was another stakeout situation that they waited too long. Comedy Fat Suit. So we've run for two hours. Ben Hosley looks like he wants to eat poison.

[01:47:32] So I'm going to cut it off right here. Thank you. Please edit that episode liberally. Yeah, if you want to slow down. Yeah, exactly. Play the whole episode half-speed. Everyone listen in half-speed. Yeah, exactly. And the will to live is slowly seeping out of the bed.

[01:47:47] We talked about the weight of water for like 30 minutes. Not a lifetime. Generously speaking, 30 minutes of the weight of water. We gave it some attention. We gave it some attention. We gave it some weight. Yeah, we're done. We're done. That's the end of the episode.

[01:47:59] Thank you very much. No, no, no. Yeah, well yeah. What were you going to say? Do we have a talk-out? A talk-out? Good. Fade out but we're talking. Oh, I know. Like a goodbye. We do it tight. We do it tight. Like fucking let's wrap it up.

[01:48:13] Kind of business thing. Cool. Karen, Emma, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having me. People should follow you on Twitter. Yep. Google your pieces. I get Twitter is probably a good way to be kept abreast of your work, right? Yeah, for sure.

[01:48:29] Right, your podcast Karen's Boys is starting immediately after this. Yeah, just keep the podcast on and it'll segue right into it. Someone please help me. Free Emma. I think that's a good idea for a podcast. Will you help us? That's where he was helping.

[01:48:50] He's like, I think it's a good idea. I was encouraged. He'll help you with his vocal support. Oh, what a pause. Look at the spikes. All right, everyone back to zero. Griffin, while you're laughing, I want to do-

[01:49:12] I just found out some news and I want to do the as always. So just let me do it, okay? Fuck, okay. I had someone plan but you do it. Do you have something good planned? Y'all hate it so do what you're doing. If you ask me, yes.

[01:49:23] If you ask you, no. Follow Emma and Karen on Twitter and- Letterbox and all your favorite social media platforms. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Jebon Patrick Reynolds for our work, Lame Montgomery for our theme song.

[01:49:38] I turned my phone back on because I was trying to look up the thing for the end as always, but we're no longer doing that because I don't want to make David angry anymore. No, no, you're going to like- I have already made one of my friends angry.

[01:49:46] His name is Ben. He looks furious. Scarlet with rage. Angry about my existence. I'm very hungry so please wrap this up. Thanks to Ant for a good over our social media. And as always, Paramount's the big-

[01:50:00] Clifford the Big Red Dog movie project has a new leash on life reports the Hollywood reporter. Walt Becker who directed Alvin and the Chipmunks The Road Chip has come aboard to helm the feature, which is intended to be a live action hybrid.

[01:50:17] So you're saying that he's going from old dogs to big dogs? He can barely contain himself. A big red dog. What if instead of them being old and human they were big and red? And what if the dog hit everyone in the nuts? I hope it does.

[01:50:37] So, thank you and we're done. Thank you Walt Becker. Delete this episode.