[00:00:00] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David, Don't know what to say or to expect, All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Do you think God knew what he was doing when he created podcasts?
[00:00:25] Huh? No shit. I really want to know. Or do you think it was another one of his minor mistakes, like tidal waves, earthquakes, floods? You think women are all like that? Fuck, I fucked up the qu- I'm gonna reset. I have to replace the same word four times.
[00:00:43] Okay, ready? Yeah, I'm ready. And I can improve the- I- believe it or not, I can improve the impression. The idea is I'm gonna cut out that last take. Yes, cut it out. Absol- no one is hearing this, Ben. Alright, and I'm making-
[00:00:58] Not even at the end of the episode. I'm making a note of this right now. Yeah. Nowhere, not as a bonus nothing. Alright. Okay, ready? Do you think God knew what he was doing when he created podcasts? Huh? No shit. I really want to know.
[00:01:15] Or do you think it was another one of his minor mistakes, like tidal waves, earthquakes, floods? You think podcasts are all like that? Smatter, yeah. You don't think God makes mistakes? Of course he does. We all make mistakes. Of course when we make mistakes, they call it evil.
[00:01:32] And when God makes mistakes, they call it nature. So what do you think? Podcasts? A mistake? Or did he do it on purpose? You're really getting into a groove when you hit nature. I know. You're really getting into a jack groove. That's why I wanted a long-
[00:01:49] And for the listener at home, I felt like my hand gestures were very- Very good. The timing of the hand thrusts. It was really beautiful. Something else. Thank you. I just want to say- Do you really think? Yeah.
[00:02:01] Well, I just looked at the spreadsheet and Hymns apparently is a sponsor this week so you can bring Jack out. I don't know what you're talking about. I can't control who walks into the studio to interrupt our ads. I'm not going to call it.
[00:02:15] I don't have his number. The amount of times Jack has pitched hair, cream and Viagra on our show. Oh yes, no, of course. It makes total sense for you to complain about one of Hollywood's brightest star doing free ad reads for us. Unprompted. Anyway.
[00:02:34] What a hard life you live, David. Should we all have three-time Academy Award winners pitching boner pills and hair loss? Pro bono. He's won three? He's won three. He's won three. Can you name the three? No, I apparently not. That's a good question.
[00:02:51] Let's see what your three guesses would be. I'll give you this hint. Two leads, one supporting. Yeah. Was one of them reds? Incorrect. Nope. Unruly. Great guess. I don't fucking care. That's the answer then. I guess that is. He was incredibly hot in that film.
[00:03:12] He deserved an Oscar for it. So I don't care what bullshit they came up with, but no, tell me. I'm curious. In terms of endearment supporting. Oh, I accept that. Sure. One for whoever the cuckoo's nest lead. I can't believe I forgot that.
[00:03:27] As good as it gets lead. He won for two separate James L. Brooks movies. I think he should have won for the shining, you know, I mean, but whatever, you know, look, it's not, it's not up to me.
[00:03:39] I mean, you're never going to win for your best work. It's fine. Well, but I mean with how things are going next year, it might be up to you. I don't know what the Oscars are going to look like in 2021. It very well could be up to you.
[00:03:50] It could be up to any of us. I would love a couple of facts. To be up to me. A couple of facts just want to swing in with. He lost the Reds Oscar to John Gilgit for Arthur, which is a weird win. Yeah.
[00:04:02] And why don't we even talk about the Oscars? This is exactly why they did some Arthur. The 80s, there's a bunch of that and like a match. Winning for cocoon. There was a lot of like, let's give it to an old timer for like
[00:04:17] their 18th best performance this decade because it makes us feel sentimental. The 80s were a rough time for the academy. They just fucking lost their minds. What is it? 79 is Melvin Douglas wins for being there.
[00:04:32] And they were like, oh, that made us feel good to give it to an old guy right before he dies and then they start just doing it too. They do it a lot. They're like, Gilgit, a match everyone gets one.
[00:04:43] The other thing I want to know is that he wasn't, Nicholson was not nominated for, which is of Eastwick obviously. Of course. He was because he was nominated that year for iron weed. Oh fair, I guess. I haven't seen it. But I've heard of it.
[00:04:57] Which I've also never seen. It's Hector Pribenko, right? I know the book. So that was like his Oscar nominee. They were like, you get both. So I'm going to bring up a thread that I don't know if I will be able
[00:05:12] to resolve by the end of this episode, but I'm going to try. Okay? Okay. On the subject that we're talking about. Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson in 1987 gets the iron weed nomination. That becomes his Oscar horse over witches of Eastwick.
[00:05:29] Even though his witches of Eastwick performance was widely adored and praised. What kind of horse is an Oscar horse? Probably Palomino. Got it. The New York Film Critics Circle did split his best actor award.
[00:05:45] They gave him best actor that year and they gave it to him for iron weed witches of Eastwick. And of course, his third leading performance broadcast news. That's ridiculous. Ridiculous. Now this is the thread I don't know if I'm going to be able to resolve.
[00:06:02] Unsurprisingly, during salt quarantine, I've been spending even more time than usual looking up award season ephemera, different nominations and awards. To be clear, he's very funny in broadcast news. I love him. Not a lead performance. It's just it's no, they just tossed it in. Agreed.
[00:06:21] Well, why not acknowledge it? You know, sure. Well, that's the thing. Okay. And you've talked about this in the past, David, that this last year, New York Film Critics Circle gave best supporting actress to Laura Dern and they split it for little women.
[00:06:35] And yeah, they throw it to the room. Yeah. It's like, should we acknowledge both? And you made the joke. Do we want to acknowledge cold pursuit as well? I did. This is the thread I don't know if I can resolve.
[00:06:48] I swear to God sometime in the last week while Googling too many things, I came across an even more egregious example of this where a third performance was lumped in and ended up getting an award that you would think never gotten award ever.
[00:07:03] And I'm determined to try to find it by the end of this episode because I wanted to mention it at some point on a blank check. It is something more insane than Jack Nicholson technically winning best actor for broadcast news.
[00:07:15] I will figure out what it is by hooker by crook. Okay, I love this journey you're on. I'm on a real journey of self discovery and I think I will find myself the moment I find this answer.
[00:07:28] I just I just got to say I think it was very insightful for which is a V-SwiK to be to be, you know, nominated noticed to win. Yeah. I mean he won the movie didn't win but but no.
[00:07:41] I think he got a golden gold nomination as well because it was you know they were able to nominate him both comedy and in drama but I feel like no no globe. No, no, none. Well, okay, but who are those people like we're not even gonna talk again.
[00:07:56] I'm not talking about the HFPA right now. No, I mean, why would we ever? It's I'm not acknowledging those goons. We're not doing that. They are goons. But no, the only acting awards he won were the critics awards and a Saturn. Well, good for Saturn. Good for Saturn.
[00:08:16] Such a slam dunk for the globes to give him best actor in a comedy for this. It is so very tame. The globes completely snubbed it. Weird. Is it weird? I mean that's the globes right? This is why we should never talk about it.
[00:08:29] Let me let me redact my previous statement. Normal. Pretty normal. Yeah. Normal. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean so exactly. Can I can I say something I maybe shouldn't say very quickly? Oh boy. I love it. Yeah, let's do it.
[00:08:47] This is me saying something I shouldn't say about someone who is fully canceled. So it doesn't really matter. I heard through my adjacency to all of this that there was an Amazon executive who loudly
[00:09:01] said to the world that they were going to win the Golden Globes three years in a row before the first year that they had won best comedy at the Golden Globe. Sure. There's right. There's there's it's a cabal. There's ways to win a Golden Globe.
[00:09:17] But it was like I promise you just wait and see we're winning the next three years and it was like first season of transparent first season of Mozart in the jungle and then there was a fucking third one that I'm third first season of Maisel.
[00:09:29] Here's what I want to say to you Griffin one introduce the show to then I want to talk to you about the Golden Globes this year. Okay, okay. Sure. Okay. Introduce the show but then we're going right to the 1988 Golden Globe. I can't wait. Because look I'm Griffin.
[00:09:44] Yeah, I'm David and this is blank check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about filmography is directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects
[00:09:54] they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I feel like my Jackson better in the past. This is a mini series on the films of George Miller. It is called Mad Pod Fury cast.
[00:10:09] And today we're talking about witches of Eastwick, which is ostensibly the only for hire film he ever took is the only film that he did not develop himself where he did not have complete control because he's very much a man who kind of wrote
[00:10:26] his checks by just having I mean starting out in his own country and his own industry independent financing. Even when his films got bigger, it's always sort of been the deal of I'm bringing my own financing to the table and you don't get to tell me anything.
[00:10:41] And this is the one time that he was playing with the house's money. And it's an interesting film for that reason. And our guest today for Vanny Fair returned to the podcast for the second time, the great Cam Collins, a KK Austin Collins. Happy to be here.
[00:10:58] I mean we're not here. I'm in my bubble in your little box. Yes, wildly different rooms. I'm in a room with Vin Diesel. David is in a room with a poster for witches of Eastwick and Cam is against a brick wall.
[00:11:12] I have a brick wall behind me but I just can't wait for a second. I mean, so it's a film about three witches. There's three of us. Yeah. So tell me, tell me who's who? What was your plan? What are you doing here? Oh boy.
[00:11:26] Because Ben is definitely Daryl. So just that's, you know, that's handled. So the witches. Ben's got big vent point energy. I think Cam is Cher. Oh I think so too. Love you for saying that. I mean they're all right answers as far as I'm concerned. They're all great.
[00:11:45] They're all great. That was amazing. I think I'm Susan and you're Michelle. Great. Great. Great. I think we're all really happy with how this shook out. No, that was perfect. No disagreements? No. I think that's indisputable. All three of those are indisputable. Yeah.
[00:12:01] Here's what I wanted to say about the Golden Globes this year. 1988. Which ignored this movie which I assume was submitted as a comedy. That's what we're about. We can all agree. Yeah. The movie that he filled that year was pretty darn incredible. Okay.
[00:12:16] Here are the five best picture comedy nominees. Okay, the winner is John Borman's hope and glory which I guess is a comedy. That's sort of like a serious. You've already lost. So this is already falling apart. So that got snuck in. You know, that's Oscar nonsense. Okay fine.
[00:12:33] But then here are the others. Dirty dancing. Okay. Broadcast news. Moonstruck. Oh, wow. And okay. And then the fifth is Baby Boom which is not a bad movie. What movie was it? It was a good movie. No. That's the one that's a little bit of a stretch.
[00:12:52] Not hoping what's it called? Yeah. Hoping glory. Come on. Hoping glory is all right. You know. I'm sorry. But I'm here to talk about which is a beast. And I would absolutely choose. I mean right. Yeah. Okay. Just so we're clear.
[00:13:08] Sometimes you look at the globe line up and you're like, Oh my God, like salmon fishing. Don't ever look at the globe. I'm just saying, like this was the year of Moonstruck and broadcast news and then dirty dancing biggest movie of the year.
[00:13:22] No, good for them for those. Sure. As I continue to search for this, I just want to point out that the LA Film Critics Association also split with witches of Eastwick and Iron Weed for Best Actor didn't do broadcast news.
[00:13:36] This is not the one I was looking for. I'm going to continue searching while giving this podcast my all, but I want to point out that in 2011, LA gave Best Actor to Michael Fassbender for a dangerous method, Jane Eyre, shame and X-Men first class. All four.
[00:13:57] That kind of rules. Yeah, sure. That's a low key bar. All right. You know what? You know what? There's worse things happening. There are. I can name a couple of things going on in the world today that are worse than when nine
[00:14:17] years ago, the LA Film Critics gave one fourth of an award. That was quite a year for him. Good for him. Right? I mean you kind of knew how to do it. He would be an interesting daryl in a remake. You know who the witches would be?
[00:14:32] He could be a daryl. Have you seen 12 Years of Slade, my friend? Okay. I have. Yeah. Right. No, he's got the energy. I'm trying to think when is he funny? See that's my only hold up. That's what I'm talking about. When is Fassie funny?
[00:14:51] He's funny in Inglourious Bastards. He is funny in Inglourious Bastards. Thank you for answering because I was stumbling there. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one that speaks to me. He gets his thing. Hilarious and hunger? Love a shit. Oh, you're right. I love bathroom humor. Fish Town.
[00:15:14] You know. Right. Hunger the first act is one long poop joke. I think Shane is inadvertently funny. I just want to say Ben is right now remotely recording. I agree with that.
[00:15:27] Ben is right now remotely recording in an attic where there is no heat and he has a blanket draped around him and he looks like he's in the movie hunger. Like he looks like. Yeah, it's because the blanket too is like an old ratty green blanket. Yeah.
[00:15:44] You look like Bobby Sands. You just look like yeah, the Troubles just in an image. He looks like he's he's amiss the Troubles and he's in a fine space. The walls are closing in on him. Like everything's angled around him.
[00:15:57] It's quite an image and he's also it's green both the blanket and his ski cap are green. The ski cap is really what meets it. It's just so. It's all for just a look.
[00:16:10] Like honestly if I tilted the computer down like the camera and I was like a round of trash can on fire, you wouldn't even be surprised. That is my vibe currently. Wow. Man, this is a good year for movies. 87 is a hot year. I'm sorry.
[00:16:31] Just just hey hey that's why can we go through the top 10 the box office because I didn't spoil this film's box office performance but I did quickly glimpse that it was in the top 10 for this year. This is one of the top 10 films of 87. Good choice.
[00:16:48] This is a big year. I mean this is Robocop also comes out this year. Right. The greatest of all American films. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you had the top movies. I mean three men and a baby number one. Okay.
[00:17:01] But you do have fatal attraction Beverly Hills cop to Good Morning Vietnam. Moonstruck the fifth highest grossing movie of the year. Share on God damn fire in 87. And then you got the Untouchables secret of my success stake out lethal weapon witches of Eastwood.
[00:17:16] But there's a lot of other good movies. Good for the Untouchables. Like you say. I just wanted to say. Yeah, definitely.
[00:17:22] One of my favorite hobbies is reading reviews from when the Untouchables came out and feeling depressed because all the reviews are like yeah you know it's like disposable popcorn trash.
[00:17:33] And you're like it's a diploma movie written by David Mamet with a morocone score that has an homage to battleship Potemkin in it. And everyone at the time was like you know it's like fluff. And Kevin Costner is kind of good in it.
[00:17:48] Everyone's kind of good in it. Good year. Here's the movie 87 movies. Yeah, keep going. Raising Arizona. You got what's it called? The John sales made a one. Matt won. Evil dead two. Full metal jacket. Swimming to Cambodia. Yeah. You got Catherine Bigelow's Near Dark. Good for us.
[00:18:11] A lot of blank check movies. I mean it's interesting how many filmmakers were either cresting or debuting right around this time.
[00:18:18] And then you know your best picture winner that year is The Last Emperor which I feel like where is that on the sort of you know where do people I love that movie?
[00:18:25] I watched that like within the last three years and I'm not surprised no one mentions it but it's not bad. I've never seen it. I feel like it gets thrown into the sort of the Gandhi bucket of like oh that's like out of Africa.
[00:18:42] Exactly like this sort of prestige Oscar movies but like it's much, much better than that. It's a beautiful movie.
[00:18:49] It's also not having seen it but my perception of its reputation is that it was seen as a far more sort of like esoteric international movie than Gandhi which is such a Hollywood version of an international story.
[00:19:07] Well look first of all Ben Kingsley can play any ethnicity he wants and I support that. He's got the pass. Yeah. I mean even if he didn't have the pass he did it and he did it and good for him. He's earned the pass.
[00:19:21] Yes right he's shown for example. Yeah you know yeah Gandhi we're not gonna do this Last Emperor but it's also not like Amadeus to me. Like there are things in The Last Emperor that feel like yeah.
[00:19:35] This is what we're calling Oscar bait of that moment whereas like Amadeus to me is like just weird. Just a weird movie. A weird. You know what else is weird. What is weird? The Witches of Eastwick. I've never heard of that. Okay so we'll fill you in Cam.
[00:19:53] I love that I'm shared. I just want to. Yeah of course you're definitely shared. There's no disagreement. Everyone in this movie is hot like everyone in this movie is peak hot. Yeah especially Richard Jenkins. I said everyone. Everyone. No I just spotlighting my boy Ricky Jenks. Yeah absolutely.
[00:20:12] Because we're talking so much about this cast and about where everyone was in their career at this point and how much it just feels like this is the only cast this movie could have it is fascinating how this cast kind of came together at the last second
[00:20:26] was not the original Roadmap and the thing that is most surprising about this movie is that it was Bill Murray as Van Horn not just theoretically but pretty deep into the process and Jack Nicholson was still with Angelica Houston at the time.
[00:20:44] She went to screen test for this movie and while she was doing that he heard that Bill Murray had pulled out of the film the film had been set up around the fact that Bill Murray was attached and he had to say to Angelica Houston
[00:21:00] hey if you're going in there would you tell them that I would be interested in taking it if they're looking for somebody now? The idea that this movie wouldn't immediately go oh this is a Jack Nicholson vehicle
[00:21:12] that this movie was set up conditional on it being a Jack Nicholson vehicle isn't it? A sexy devil yes. What was the idea behind the Bill Murray? I just think he was the guy at that moment and I think this is also this is probably what it is
[00:21:27] this is probably why they went to Bill Murray first this is in the weird wilderness after Ghostbusters where he doesn't make a movie for five years and it was like he had the biggest goddamn hit he became the biggest star and then he walked away from it all
[00:21:43] and I think he just negged Hollywood so hard that they were so desperate to get him back and it came like the most coveted movie star for any executive or any director because the goal was like can you be the one to lure him
[00:21:58] and he doesn't return until Scrooge save for the one scene in Little Shop of Wars Scrooge in 88 and then Ghostbusters 2 in 89 Scrooge, love it. Good for him. But not this, not this Bill. He is working but that would be a concession pick
[00:22:21] it would make more sense the other way around. Could he see it working? I can't. I mean I'd watch it. Yes. Right. He can sustain this level of horniness. He's not a horny guy. Here's the other thing, I don't think he has the energy for it
[00:22:38] he is a much more casual actor. Every type of energy and I don't think he has the menace although he clearly has a dark side. There is something to the fact that it's just like Nicholson is just like a Tasmanian devil of evil and horniness in this movie.
[00:22:56] He's like animal from the Muppet show. You need someone who's just live wire the entire fucking film. But you also need, it's like he needs to be someone who you're like I would have sex with him but I would also feel weird about it
[00:23:10] and I would think he was hot but then I would also be like wait like you know I would like stand back for a minute and be like what why is it that I think this is hot
[00:23:19] and that is Jack Nicholson's 70s but especially 80s 90s movie vibe. See I don't think, yeah. Well you have to believe that the women want to hate fucking. Right. Exactly. And you can't do that with Bill Murray. Well here's the thing, I think certain filmmakers
[00:23:37] a different version of this movie there is a version of it that works with Bill Murray that is this story transformed into a more traditional broad comedy in which he is not actually sexy and he is playing sort of a sketch comedy version of a smarmy misogynistic asshole.
[00:23:54] Yeah, not interested. But it's not interesting. Not interesting. We want the morning movie we don't care about that other stuff. And I'm gonna keep on coming back to this word but I had never seen this movie before and it is, I know, I'm sorry.
[00:24:08] Oh my God, I don't know. Don't apologize and excited for you. The mistake has been corrected but the thing that was most striking to me about this film is that as opposed to a lot of the kind of comparable dark comedies of the time
[00:24:22] and supernatural comedies of the time and dark supernatural comedies of the time because you have like DeVito, you have Beetlejuice is the year after this. Mississippi Burning. Yeah, a great supernatural dark comedy. Misfortune. Yeah, but even Barry the Bridesmaid,
[00:24:43] Sonnenfeld is about to start his Adams family run a couple years later like the Paul Rudnick zone. Like this is like a thing, Frank Oz, that's like kind of existing in mainstream Hollywood at this time. This sort of sensibility. And I love that whole era of studio comedies
[00:25:00] that got dark and violent and all of that. But this movie has a little more genuine menace to it than those other films. There is like a real kind of, it's not even a scariness because those other movies can have tension to them
[00:25:15] but there is something that feels actually evil about this movie and not performatively dark. It's unsettling. It's also gross. Yes. Is what's evil, is what's gross, the fact that it makes you horny? I don't, like, I think it's hot. It is evil but it's hot, right?
[00:25:34] It's a hot movie, right? But I think the fact that it's genuinely hot and the fact that it's genuinely menacing are one in the same. They're partly parceled because it's about the fact this movie isn't putting anything in comedy quotes.
[00:25:49] For a comedy, it is not a film that is structuring most of its big scenes for laughs. Right. It is really trying to dig into the actual sort of ugliness of all of those primal emotions, of fear, of lust, you know?
[00:26:08] It also doesn't have a plot at all. No. Like it just like, it's the girls hanging out for a bit and then he shows up and then we basically just sort of like without acknowledging it just cut to like,
[00:26:22] they're like a harem now and everyone's freaked out about it. The plot is the bachelor, the show. You're right. They conjure this man and he goes on dates with all of them and back in the harem they get into fights. His house is even very bad for him.
[00:26:42] Oh, completely. He fucks everyone. I don't know if it's time this movie. Cannot believe that this is a George Miller movie. This is like the thing that astonishes me. I think George Miller can't kind of believe this is a George. Right?
[00:26:58] Like this is the one that sticks out weird. But in like a good way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, this guy has never made a bad film. I haven't seen all of them. I haven't seen Happy Feet. That's my... It might be his worst movie.
[00:27:13] It's my least favorite. That's why I said that one because I figured that'd be the whole... Guess what? Spoiler. It turns out Happy Feet 2 is kind of a masterpiece. Yeah. Happy Feet 2, not bad. Yeah. I'm like really into it.
[00:27:27] I'm trying to find some stories about how he got involved in this project other than I think much like Bill Murray, George Miller had become the sort of unattainable for studios.
[00:27:41] For him to do three Mad Maxes in a row, each one sort of topping the previous one in terms of scale, in terms of technical sort of craft and box office and everything.
[00:27:52] I think it was just like, this is so clearly a guy we should be pulling into the Hollywood system. And he kept on avoiding it. He would get distribution deals with American studios, but he wanted to play the game his own way by his own terms.
[00:28:05] So I think they actively pursued him because... I don't know if he was the first choice, but it was just like... The fact that he kept on saying no made him more and more desirable. But the big X factor to this movie is it was a Goober-Peters production.
[00:28:23] It was the two John Peters and Peter Goober who were the notorious sort of swinging dick producers of the 80s who then became the heads of Columbia Pictures and almost ran it into the ground.
[00:28:39] And this was a movie that was a total war between the two of them who would then go on to do Batman with Nicholson and Burton and Miller. And Miller had never had to deal with producers who were against him.
[00:28:57] He had always worked with his best friend as his producer and his own sort of team that he had built and come up with. And the money was Australian money. Like he'd never worked with a studio that was... Totally.
[00:29:12] And so this he's dealing with a bunch of big stars for the first time, which he hadn't done before. He had essentially made Mel Gibson. And he's dealing with a studio and he's dealing with two powerhouse producers who want things done the way that they wanted it done.
[00:29:27] And George Miller, his big thing he always says about this movie is that Jack Nicholson saved him. That Jack Nicholson exerted all of his movie star power to support him, to make sure his vision was kept intact but also that Jack Nicholson really kind of tutored him
[00:29:43] on how to make sure he got what he wanted because he said, I can tell you're a real filmmaker and I want to make sure you don't lose battles. Not just here, but going forward. Do you think that Jack Nicholson voted for Spotlight or Mad Max Three Road?
[00:29:58] Oh wow. Oh, we're not going to go there. I think he voted for Mad Max Two. He's got that chaos energy. The way George Miller continues to talk about Jack Nicholson, it feels like Nicholson really took such a god damn shine to him
[00:30:16] and felt so protective of him that I can't imagine him looking at Fury Road and saying anything other than, that'll do George, that'll do. He must have felt such beaming pride watching Fury Road. Nicholson was in Mars Attacks. Just remember that performance. Think about that man.
[00:30:38] Forget. I played a pokey to go see Mars Attacks. I snuck in. I didn't go to school. That's how much I fucking cared. No, you went to school. You went to see Mars Attacks. That was so beautiful. That was so beautiful.
[00:30:56] Can I read just two quick Miller, Nicholson, Peter, Goober's Beyond Thunderdome cage match things here? Yeah. So John Peters very famously, amongst other things, there is the story about him developing the Tim Burton, Kevin Smith Superman Returns that has now been widely circulated
[00:31:15] where he was desperately trying to get Kevin Smith to ride a robot spider in which he then later shoehorned into Wild Wild West. Here's a very similar story. I'm just going to read this verbatim from I'm to be sure. According to George Miller, producer John Peters
[00:31:29] suddenly decided he wanted aliens to appear in the movie even though it didn't make sense with the story. Miller thinks that Peter was influenced by the box office success of Aliens 1986. He even showed up one day on set with a stuntman dressed as an alien
[00:31:46] and told Miller to put him in a scene. Any scene. Miller and Jack Nicholson. Yes, Miller and Jack Nicholson then left the set until Peters gave up on his fixation. I just want to point out, fucking John Peters didn't just say at like a script stage
[00:32:03] can we write aliens into it? He'd even say while filming, can we find a way to put an alien in somewhere? He showed up to set with a guy in a full goddamn alien costume and said put him in a scene today.
[00:32:17] What do you think the costume looks like? I don't know. I respect it. This is what I want to say. I'm imagining the guy from Shape of Water showing up. I mean, I feel like it probably is your classic kind of gray, almond-eyed alien. Yeah.
[00:32:35] But just like normal meddling Hollywood producers do annoying things like say at the script stage why don't we put aliens in this movie? Only John Peters got a guy to dress up. I know. He showed up on the set and was like,
[00:32:50] come on, he can be in the background. Who's it gonna hurt? I will not name the project, but there is a thing I worked on once where there was a horrible sort of cigar smoking slick back hair producer
[00:33:01] and he would repeatedly go to the sort of creative head of the project and pitch them on having a scene where the lead got punched in the nuts by a little person. He never brought a little person to set. He would bring it up every day.
[00:33:21] He would pitch it in detail. He would pull up YouTube clips to try to support his point, but he never got to the point of saying here is a little person I've hired him, I put him through hair and makeup, pick your scene.
[00:33:33] John Peters did that and he did that with a special effects costume with some degree of makeup to make a fucking human being look like an alien. I respect it. I think it's great. Shoot your shot. I think that show you're committed to the idea.
[00:33:48] This is the other big part of this and I think this really causes like a turning point in George Miller's career. He never does a movie like this again. He never gives a studio this much control over him,
[00:33:58] but I think it makes him twice as sort of stubborn and steadfast about his vision. So let me just read this. After the alien thing, Miller and Jack Nicholson left the set until Peters gave up on his fixation. So this is connected to that.
[00:34:12] In Australia magazine, cinema papers, early 90s, George Miller revealed the shoot had been extremely difficult. This is so fucking telling of everything that is still to this day incredibly stupid about the Hollywood studio system mentality. Well, it's a Hollywood studio system right now because it was poor guys.
[00:34:34] Okay, let me couch this. Let me try to say this while pulling some punches. Until like a couple months ago. Right, punching bag. But this is, I swear to God, this shit still happens today. In a meeting to discuss ways to reduce the budget,
[00:34:49] Miller volunteered to give up his trailer because he was always on set and had no time to use it. The studio concluded from that that he was a pushover so they began to interfere with his production requests. If he asked for 50 extras, the studio would provide a dozen.
[00:35:05] If he asked for two cameras, they would provide one. Miller decided to fight fire with fire and used to shoot each scene until his production demands were met. The studio responded by looking for a new director but Jack Nicholson, who supported Miller,
[00:35:16] vowed to walk off the production if he was replaced. So this is the psychology here. A guy comes to set and goes, look, if we need extra money for this movie, I don't need this creature comfort. Put it back into the production
[00:35:29] so the value is up there on the screen. And they said, this guy is such a cuck that he doesn't even want a trailer? That must mean he's a bad director so we shouldn't give him anything. I swear to God, this is how these people still fucking operate.
[00:35:43] Right. But I mean, it is the 80s is the height of this kind of like, hey, look, you know, the guy with the biggest stick is the real director over here, you know, right? Like what you said, the cigar chomping Hawaiian shirt-wearing producer.
[00:35:55] You understand how if this is the one experience he has with this and even still the movie is a hit, it comes out well, it gets good reviews, the movie stars all line with him. George Miller smartly. Yeah, really fucking hot.
[00:36:09] George Miller smartly is like, I'm going back to Australia. I'm doing everything on my fucking terms. I'm getting my own fund raise, like financing. And I'm buying back the rights to Mad Max. Like I'm optioning Babe myself. Like everything becomes, I have to do this on my own.
[00:36:26] Mrs. Dalloway said I'm optioning Babe myself. That's fucking poetry dude. And at the time that didn't really make sense. Like when she wrote that, it didn't really make sense. Until George. Yeah. I gotta say what you're saying clarifies for me,
[00:36:44] you know, the behind the scenes big dick energy of George here clarifies to me why this is his hottest movie. Because I think there's something about this movie that feels like a fight to me. When I watched it recently, it just, first of all,
[00:37:00] you got to have that moment where you think man, remember when just a mainstream Hollywood movie really was a movie? Like someone is a week behind the camera. The fucking shop compositions are more than just rudimentary and the fucking outfit and just everything. It's like a fucking film.
[00:37:21] A popcorn movie, but it's like a fucking film. This is the term I use. It's getting at that for me. But like no, we're going to make a fucking good movie instead of this alien. I really don't know. No, no, no.
[00:37:38] I mean, look, respected as an individual move, but also respect George not letting it interfere with grade commitment from Peter's one of our finest comedians. I had a friend who lived on my couch for like almost a year because he had lost his job
[00:37:54] and had insurmountable credit card debt. And my roommate and I were like, stay on our couch until you rebound. And most of that year because most of my social life is sitting on a couch and watching things was me watching stuff with him late at night
[00:38:08] because he now lived on his bed was the couch. Yeah. And when I would have to try to sell him on a nightly basis on something to watch, something that I wanted to watch that he would also approve of because it was his bed,
[00:38:23] he would always say, I want to watch like a movie movie. Yeah. Like he was a guy who liked movies but was not like very serious about them. And I was like, I would always say, what do you mean?
[00:38:33] And he was like, you know, like a movie movie that has like cinematography and like a music and acting. And I would say all movies have that. He's like, no, but you know what I'm saying. And what he was saying is what you're saying now, Cam.
[00:38:45] It's a term I think about all the time. It's a certain level of studio film made with real movie stars giving real sort of in the pocket performances with real production value, real vision, real voice behind it, real ideas and like just top of the line craft.
[00:39:04] And still just product. It's still product. Right. That was his thing. Like sometimes I'd be like, this is a really good foreign film. This is a really good Andy Felton. He was like, I want to watch a movie movie. No, I know exactly what he means.
[00:39:15] And this is, this is, I mean, this is a movie that lives up to the fact that it stars Jack Nicholson, Susan Sarandon, Cher and Michelle fucking Pfeiffer. Yeah. It's pretty nice. It lives up to that. The poster structure of big Nicholson above like top of everything
[00:39:35] and then one line down. Oh, you mean the naming? Yeah. Right. It's Nicholson in huge font and then slightly smaller font, one line down Cher Sarandon Pfeiffer. And it's rare that you have like the number one guy at the top is
[00:39:50] humongous and also the three people below him with that gulf are still all legendary. Legends. Legends, true legends. All legends all as Cam is saying pretty much at the height of their powers. Yeah. Right? Or none. Yeah. Maybe Pfeiffer is still in her sort of ingenue phase.
[00:40:12] I guess she's the youngest of them. She's grown ass one. A runway. Right. I mean, she is. She is. But like at this point, she's got a really over qualified engineer. She's got Baker boys in a couple of years. She's got Batman a couple of years after that.
[00:40:26] Right? Like she's got, she's ramping up. This is her ramping up. I guess dangerous liaisons. That's next year. Right. Yeah. I got to tell you guys like the weird thing about me and George Miller is that my introduction to George
[00:40:40] Miller, you know, I didn't see the Mad Max films until college. Sure. Et cetera, et cetera. My George Miller films, I didn't know this at the time were this and Lorenzo's oil, the movie that he made afterward. Oh wow. Yes. These movies were on TV all the time.
[00:40:58] So you only knew his serandine collaboration? I did not know that George Miller directed Bittcher's Eastwick until Fury wrote. It's pretty. They're completely divorced. Yeah. And Lorenzo's oil is just like. Are you an oil boy? What do you think of what do you think of the oil?
[00:41:16] I mean, in the words of the 10 man and the whiz, would you suggest that people slot some oil to you? Well, it's like depressing. Sorry. Yeah, it is. But it's good. It's like a childhood illness. It's like in. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. It is a real slog.
[00:41:35] But it is also nothing like it. There's nothing like it. But also if your lens on, I just want to, I live in a weird universe where these were the two. These are too big movies for me as a kid. I watched them a lot.
[00:41:50] They were on all the time. There's this oil with, I mean, Susan Trandon just Jersey legend. I'm a Jersey guy. Shit. Of course. Oh, where Jersey? I'm from Plainfield, North Plainfield. Soon. From Edison. Where I also. OK. Time. I'm not. Patterson area. Oh, I love that for you.
[00:42:10] I don't love the movie. Patterson. How dare you? I like it. Come on. Love that movie. I like it. I just. It's fine. You don't have to like it. No, it's alright. I mean, you know, just Jersey art to high standard. It's fine.
[00:42:26] I mean, we have Phillip Roth, but it's fine. Patterson is good. Angelica Houston, it seems like was their first choice and by her own admission, she fucked up the audition. Who was she going to say? She says she was going to be Alex, which is
[00:42:42] it just feels like a share role. Yeah, right. Obvious sort of casting. She's in such a witch zone then. Has she already done though witches or does that come after? I don't know. That's fucking iconic. Right. That's a couple years after, but that is iconic.
[00:42:54] And without looking at her, she. We know she didn't get nominations for the witches. Right. Oh, are we sure? I'm pretty sure. I want to know she got one. I would love to be wrong.
[00:43:07] I'm going to look it up and I want to bet that she got one. She won critics awards, but that's it for the witches. No. Yes. Good for critics. I'm loving this right now. She won the Lafka and the National Society,
[00:43:20] but she won the National Society for the witches. But here's the thing though. Here's the thing. It was tied for with that and the grifters. Okay. The grifters was her prestige movie. So it was similar to this. It was similar to. But they still shouted it out. Yeah.
[00:43:37] She's so good in the grifters and so good in most movies that she. She would have been great in this. Yeah, she would have been great in this. She sort of said like I felt like this was in my court and I couldn't get my head around
[00:43:51] the language and I went into the screen test ill prepared. And it's probably the worst audition I've ever done. Is there a. So I think I'm looking for it. Because God YouTube is perfect for this kind of thing. Absolutely.
[00:44:04] Oh, I would love to see what she thinks is her worst audition. So then everything goes like sort of out the window. Pfeiffer was the one of the three who was cast earliest after I think they considered Amy Madigan and also Daryl Hanna.
[00:44:18] Daryl Hanna turned the film down and I quote on moral grounds. Oh, tell me more. I love it. I have no further info. Two horny. Daryl clan of the game bear. I was going to say, are we not all but certain that Daryl Hanna turned this
[00:44:36] film down because she thought it was disrespectful to witches. I'm not even making a joke to imagine. I'm a thousand percent serious. I guarantee you that was the reason. That's the reason we're just going. I have no inside track.
[00:44:49] I just I feel it in my fucking bones that she thought this film gave witches. I would fucking bad luck. It makes sense though, like just like Angelica Houston, they went with share.
[00:45:03] Like, yeah, Daryl Hanna was in that zone in that Michelle Pfeiffer on the new zone right then. So Pfeiffer, they locked down and then they're looking to cast the role of Alex. And who do they cast? Susan Sarandon.
[00:45:17] Susan Sarandon is officially cast as Alex accepts the role starts doing the work. Then they're struggling to get the third which they finally get through to share. Share agrees she likes the project and then after signing on, she takes another read of the script
[00:45:35] and she goes actually I'd rather play this role than that role. And so they swap them out. Share becomes Alex Sarandon does not even know that her role has been switched until she arrives on location for pre-production. So rude.
[00:45:52] Yeah, but it's pretty wild because then it's like you look at this cast and you go, oh, all three of them must have been first choices for these roles. This feels like the three most obvious prominent women to play these parts,
[00:46:05] but it actually was like a circuitous path to get there and a circuitous path to get Nicholson. I'm glad we're drawing on this. This is an extremely well cast movie. Yes, yes, it is. How they figured it out.
[00:46:20] And give right because Jenkins who I mean, this is very early in his career. Right? This is one of his earliest movies even though he was born like 45 years old and balding. He's like that SNL sketch where will Ferrell comes out named Ted Brogan already owing people money.
[00:46:38] Oh man. And then remember that where they're at a delivery room. Yeah. Good sketch. And then Veronica Cartwright is incredible. Fucking Cartwright. I was going to say Veronica Cartwright is my stealth pick for the best performance in this movie. I think her work in this is unreal. Unreal.
[00:46:55] I've been watching the birds recently and first of all iconic movie. Talk about witches. I mean just if you add bird to this movie, oh, I just combined these two movies somehow we got to do that. This movie could use some crud.
[00:47:10] That's what Peter should have been doing. Yeah. He should have been throwing birds onto the set. Veronica Cartwright. Do you guys know that Veronica Cartwright and Jack Nicholson used to date in the 70s? Tell me when in the 70s. I don't have more specifics.
[00:47:35] I will look for answers right now but this is the big headline. I don't want to bury this lead. They rekindled their affair during production of this movie. Wasn't he still within Junkers? Yes, he was. He's being a bad boy.
[00:47:50] Cartwright and Nicholson were fucking during the filming of this film on camera during takes. That's not true. Wow. I would just like to reiterate that this is George Miller's hottest film. Every scene coming up just feels like it's just fate, right? That even those two characters were fucking.
[00:48:12] Call it God but I don't know how perfect. Of course some people in this movie are fucking though. Everyone in every movie is having sex. Fair. Fair. The date I have here in 1978 is Jack Nicholson going south. She's in going south.
[00:48:35] I believe that's when they met and then had an affair. Wow. I'm dated after that. Yeah. But so right, this is kind of a hey Veronica. They're rekindling their. Not even one of the witches and she fucking starts fucking with Jack Nicholson. I mean there's a really good.
[00:48:53] There's a good chance that Jack Nicholson had sex with all four primary actresses in this film, right? There's a really good chance. Who wouldn't sleep with everyone in this movie? I know. There's a good chance that everyone in this film slept with everyone else in this movie.
[00:49:07] It is a perfect orgy. There's a good chance that Richard Jenkins fucked Jack Nicholson off camera. Well I hope so. That that chair was stuffed in Sarandon. I'm talking every which way but lose. I think everyone was. And Carol. Carol Struckian, you know, Lurch.
[00:49:26] Oh who wasn't picking off a piece? Lurch was lying type. He's a fucking buffet. Lurch himself. Fidel. Fidel is a funny name for that guy. Yes. Because every time Nicholson goes on about him, I had to remind myself he's not talking about Fidel Castro. Right.
[00:49:46] Because the scenes work that way. If you think that this guy just keeps on bringing up Fidel Castro as a non sequitur, wants to talk about Fidel's hog size. His vibe could be I know Fidel Castro socially. That's why I accepted that.
[00:49:59] I went oh what a good character detail. This guy hangs out with Fidel Castro. You know the devil? 1980s devil and Fidel. So the plot of The Witches of Eastwick. I have that. I think. Is that there's a little town called Eastwick.
[00:50:20] There are these three ladies who have a standing Thursday day at some Rhode Island. Right. It's like they have a little more. Well wait, we're skipping over something. I feel like we're skipping over the era of the 80s and 90s.
[00:50:38] Reagan Nests sweeping aerial shots of fall Connecticut, Rhode Island with the John Williams music and you know what I'm talking about right? This mode. Yeah. Which leads to I think what you're describing pretty much ends the following year because Beetlejuice just fucking takes it to the mech. Absolutely.
[00:51:01] With the fucking psych out of the mob. The pick a fast thing becomes comical right around now. The opening of the Elfman. Yeah. Over what looks like the helicopter shot and then turns out to be a model and an attic. I love that. They butcher them.
[00:51:15] They take them to the cleaners. They fold them like laundry. Yeah. They get juiced is what I'm saying. So these. Yeah. But yes, that is very representative this time period. And it's also worth noting that the book The Witches of Eastwick obviously written
[00:51:30] by John Updike of course takes place in the 60s. A big immediate change to this movie to set it in the 80s. Yeah. Not the only change they made but a big immediate one. Yeah, then a very clever. No, you said you dabbled right?
[00:51:50] I read a few pages. Yeah. Well, I meant right. I mentioned this to you before that this is the only John Updike novel on Harold Bloom's list of the Western canon. The rabbit novels are not there. None of the other bullshit's there. Very bizarre.
[00:52:05] Very bizarre, but that would mean I mean obviously I was curious and yeah, I mean I have to say in the opening pages women are talking and that was interesting for him. Yeah. I didn't realize that was like.
[00:52:18] He's he's the guy funnily enough, you know Nicholson's line in as good as it gets like, you know, how do I write women? What's the line like? I imagine right now I have to look it up. Oh, I write a man and then I remove like reason.
[00:52:35] It's like reason and something else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before this, I said I wasn't going to shade up like so I apologize for that. No shade. Yeah. But yeah, look it stands out in his work.
[00:52:55] I think it can only this is the only time any critic of books has called like an up diagnosed all feminists right? Like this is right. Yeah. Well, and I think it's also like the this is a weirdly adapted work.
[00:53:10] I think one of the reasons that it's not thought of as an up-dict novel because it's rare that a writer who is that prominent has a book that is this prominent and the two are rarely sort of associated with each other. Yeah.
[00:53:25] And part of it is that this thing keeps on getting adapted into different mediums at different time periods over the last 30 years. But I think one of the running things that if you read the sort of response to
[00:53:36] the book at the time and even the legacy now and also every version, the TV show, the musical, this movie, there's constantly this question of like, is this thing a satire of what it seems to be saying? Yeah. Is it a work that other people can reclaim?
[00:53:53] Like what was his intent in writing it? Is he trying to sort of reassert gender roles or is he trying to deconstruct them? Like it's kind of an interesting thorny text. The movie? For all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:12] You know, I, for me what I love about this movie is that it kind of floats beyond all of that for me. Like I don't mean to keep coming back to the sexual energy, but I guess it does
[00:54:26] for me it is a movie star movie full of great sexual energy. So to me that is what it's about. Yeah. Which is our sexual thing. A horny goat man is a sexual thing. All the fucking is literally sexual. So satire or not.
[00:54:42] I feel like it's beyond that. It's about it's a movie star movie to me. And also whether or not it's satire, it's sort of like it's a comedy playing off of the cis had perception of gender roles within a relationship. Yes.
[00:55:05] Whether it's trying to deconstruct them or support them or just acknowledge that they exist and find comedy within that. It is about people literally willing themselves into a relationship that represents all the best and all the worst of straight male female parents.
[00:55:23] But because the movie is so ridiculous. Yeah. It, it just sort of, it just finds an escape hash beyond like lingering to me on those questions. Like in the end, I don't, I just laugh. I think it's a successful comedy because it just floats beyond these things.
[00:55:41] It's like it's acknowledging but really it's, I mean, if ever I were to say this is just a movie about something like for all the really interesting things that are happening. This to me just is like a movie movie.
[00:55:54] I don't know once I get into like the gender politics of this movie, I'm like, I don't know it's me the gender politics or everyone wants to fuck. Everyone wants to fuck. But there is this sort of vibe of like he worships them and he
[00:56:05] sort of is, he's amazed by, you know, there's that speech where he's like women they can make babies, right? You know, where he's like talking about how incredible women's bodies are. And but you know, he doesn't really want to. He's just a person about it. Exactly.
[00:56:21] And he doesn't really want to do like, you know, he can only, he thinks of them best as bodies. I feel like that is his vibe for most of the movie. Like he wants to make babies with them. I also think he's a problematic guy.
[00:56:37] He's a problematic man. I mean, he's a problem. But I think that what is great is that it acknowledges how alluring and like horny it would be to be worshiped that way, but also right at the end of the day, you're just
[00:56:53] sitting in a fucking bubble bath kind of bored out of your mind. So this is my big take on this movie because it is literally about these women conjuring this guy together, right? From essentially like a pitch meeting of everything they would want in a guy.
[00:57:08] But it's very specifically the pitching you do when you're drunk, you know, with friends. You're sort of like your id is talking. I think this movie is above all else about being attracted to things that you know are bad. Oh, yeah. Right.
[00:57:30] You know, whether they're qualities in a person or dynamics in a relationship, which is why Jack Nicholson is perfect. Yes. He is that where you're like, I love this. I know there's something I know. I know this is not ideal.
[00:57:45] I know this guy's got a dark past like, I mean, right? You cast that Nicholson. I'm not going to immediately go, well, this is the guy to root for. I'm going to go, well, I got questions about this guy.
[00:57:56] But even if I want to see him, but I want to see him on screen. I want to see him be problematic. And even from like his perspective, he is drawn to them because they are like strong willed, but he
[00:58:09] himself admits late in the movie that all he really wants is someone to fucking do his ironing. You know, like it's like maybe he would not be turned on to someone who was more subservient, but he also still at the end of the day wants domesticity. Right.
[00:58:23] But the thing that the movie does that's interesting is that it doesn't wait until the end for the women to have a sort of moment where they realize this is bad. For example, Cher pretty immediately is like, okay, you're you're a piece of shit.
[00:58:38] Like the first thing she says to me is basically I want to fuck you. Okay. Like not saying that we're not going to fuck, but I'm just saying that you're a piece of shit. It's like, it's like, it's not like we're
[00:58:48] swinging around at the end towards a revolution. About how terrible he is and how they're, they're able to be strong from the get go. They will him into being there in control. They're in control throughout the movie more than they realize and are harnessing right here. Like crazy.
[00:59:05] And they have wish power. Right. They have which powers the whole time, but are not even really conscious of them for half the damn movie. And the witch power is being horny. It just is simple. You know, I, I, right.
[00:59:21] This is anything for the raininess and magic as a child. I knew what this movie was about. I mean, between this and Catwoman is just like Michelle Pfeiffer you're representing. I mean sex on screen to me and scarface. I mean, that man must hate this movie. Right.
[00:59:43] It must just freak him out. Gosh. So these women, they have this movie is like dark practical magic. I know practical magic came out later, but practical magic is like you actually could summon your ideal husband just through a spell
[00:59:56] and he'd turn out to be a nice guy. And this is like, if you tried to do that, you would literally, literally find yourself fucking the devil. And they, so they, they summon this guy kind of by mistake. His introduction is incredible.
[01:00:11] The, you know, they're at the classical music concert and he's snoring and making these like wild bore noises. Space and my grandfather. He did that at one of my metal school bands. On sex once. So. Like to introduce him. From the moment. He's so disgusting.
[01:00:33] Like the first, and it's so good. And it's not like he is styled radically different in this film than he is in general other than the tiny little ponytail. The ponytail. The ponytail is an incredible touch. But from the moment he comes on screen,
[01:00:49] I realized, oh, Jack Nicholson looks like George Miller designed him. Right. You know, like almost is like the bullet farmer. Like Jack Nicholson's natural eyebrows are how he styled a Morton Joe. Oh, can we talk about the most natural fuck up face in Hollywood?
[01:01:11] Just a guy whose eyebrows smile. Yeah. When we lose Jack Nicholson, we lose everybody, but like there's no one who's got a face like this. Right. No, there's no one who's got like that. And just I also argue the energy. That's the thing for me.
[01:01:28] I just, I argued there is no one today who has this much energy on camera. It would be not only could you not name today's Jack Nicholson, but it would be laughable to even like shortlist candidates. I'm not even looking for someone to be exactly like
[01:01:44] I'm like what's an equivalent? No, but like no one's in that zone is what I'm saying. It's just like he's got the most juice. He's got the most battery of anybody, you know. And to be so good at comedy and like fucking drama with the same freaking smile.
[01:02:00] Yeah. With that same shit that. And he rarely disguises himself. He's a very distinctive specific guys got specific voice. He's got specific mannerisms and he is able to apply those to such wildly different things in different films and also hand himself fully over to directors.
[01:02:18] It is so telling that in a case like this and you hear you'd hear the same stories about so many cases later, which is also Peter and Goober's where like even with a young director if he believed in them, he was like I got your fucking back.
[01:02:31] You know, like I'll fight the battles for you because I'm Jack. But he'll say it in a voice that kind of would you say I'm like, you know, I'm gonna fuck you Tim Burton. Oh my God. Go ahead, Ben. Would you say that his approach to acting
[01:02:46] in like that manly kind of way that makes him special? Like I think of that and like Harrison Ford to have like how they're not like like it's artful but they're not like taking it too seriously or themselves too seriously. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Definitely.
[01:03:04] The school of acting will come from music. No, they don't give a shit about that. He is the ultimate sort of in quotes movie star. He is kind of the only movie star who's constantly deflating his persona. Every single movie he makes even when the film
[01:03:18] is built around supporting that persona. I also think of like the the classical Lane May quote about like improv where she said if you don't know what to do in a scene seduce, seduce, seduce. She was like that's always the most interesting choice you can make as an
[01:03:33] actor to seduce which is a Lane May as a panion but Jack Nicholson treats every single scene as a seduction. Even if it isn't literally, it always is even if it's a business scene you know? Every scene is some sort of seduction. He's always trying to lure someone
[01:03:49] over to his side. I need an a Lane May Jack Nicholson. Oh God. Let's make it happen. Fucking right now. Are you fucking kidding me? I know and the fact that she is you know allegedly coming out of retirement to direct another film
[01:04:06] and Nicholson's been off the screen for over a decade it's like if she could fucking lure him out. If we can do a new leaf 2021 that's optimistic. I'll say this. 2022. I'll even say this. Yeah right. Jack and Lane. I think a Lane May Jack Nicholson
[01:04:26] is the only fucking why am I blanking on the title the Marianne at a film that Nicholson was supposed to remake. Tony Ordman. Oh good call. A Lane May is the only person I would be interested in seeing remake Tony Ordman. Yes.
[01:04:45] And Nicholson was supposed to do it. But my initial feeling about and this is getting at what we're talking about. Yeah. My initial feeling about that was damn it really fucking depends on who directs that movie. Because he so easily gets lent to because he's a mainstream actor.
[01:05:02] So he gets lent to he gets lent to some dog shit. Yeah I mean I actors are like actors with careers like his are tough because you know as a writer you kind of have that moment where you want to do a thing about an actor
[01:05:17] and you actually go line by line do the filmography and watch the shit and you're like fuck you were a lot of terrible movies and Jack has been. But like He's been in a few bad ones. He's been in a few bad ones.
[01:05:32] Meryl Sheep too just name like you know people who are great but whose movies aren't always great. Well she really had the problem. I think he's been in better. Meryl made a lot of mediocre movies. Meryl has been in a ton of things
[01:05:46] that are not very good but she is good in them. Well that's how you rig the game right? You let everyone else slum it and then you're like I'm fucking Meryl Street so I'm gonna get the fucking monster. She's in a terrible movie. She's got great movies obviously.
[01:06:00] It inspired one of my favorite onion articles ever I just pulled up the exact headline here but it is an op-ed column a quote unquote written by Meryl Street and the headline is name one masterpiece of cinema that I've started. And the thesis is it's Meryl
[01:06:18] Street saying like look I mean I'm not complaining I've had a good career obviously I'm very respected but like have I ever been in a truly great movie? And that article is from 2009. Yeah. And the onion makes a pretty good argument against her being in a single flat
[01:06:36] out masterpiece. No she's been in some great stuff. Agreed. But this is everyone will read the article on their own time. But the proportion is not healthy. Yes. She's got a lot of Marvin's rooms in there. Forgot about Marvin's room.
[01:06:58] Do you know who I think is the ultimate? No offense to Marvin's room. Here is my opinion the ultimate example of what we're talking about. Are you ready for a surprisingly difficult question? Oh I love it yes. What is the best movie that Angelina Jolie
[01:07:16] has ever been in? She's been directed by Angelina Jolie. Next question. She is the only one who's ever done right by Angelina Jolie. And she made Brad Pitt do accents which he's bad at and that's what you do to your ex-husband man.
[01:07:34] She made him do like four accents at the same time. And he sucked at that. Really? Really? Yeah. That's how you fucking do it. For someone who is that iconic one of the biggest box office movie stars of the last 20 years also has won an Oscar. It is
[01:07:52] astonishing how bad her filmography is if you really look at it film by film. She would get hit with she's not a star. There's a no I'm saying there's an honest argument for that and that in and of itself is kind of astonishing when you consider how unquestioned
[01:08:08] she is as one of the biggest stars. And just a great a great star yeah. My favorite Angelina Jolie movie is Alexander. I think that's the answer. But like once again a controversial answer like both of you are very controversial movies that are controversial. Griffin
[01:08:26] I understand the premise of you're absolutely right. Controversial only because people haven't caught up. I mean people need to catch up. It's tough being an icon class but I appreciate David's answer as well. That's why similarly I think her best film is Sky Captain
[01:08:42] The World of Tomorrow which people have not caught up with yet. But you know what I respect that I love this conversation. I really I'm struggling to think of a better one than any of these I kept wanting to say Titanic. She was right. It's just kind
[01:08:58] of incredible how undeniable she is that she's been big in three separate decades now and she has done so few films that have any sort of lasting imprint but this is on the quality that have like really held up in anyone's minds. This is Stardom.
[01:09:16] Yeah it's it's it right that's the point it's undeniable stardom. You know what I mean. Her stardom is so much bigger than any film she's ever been in. I rewatch Tomb Raider recently I don't really even know why it's so fascinating and it's such
[01:09:32] a like I don't know like a nostalgia warm bath that just reminds me of like the early 2000s in this great way. Yeah when did it come out that was 2000s? 2001 maybe? Yeah. Can I just Daniel Craig? Can I just very quickly just speed round this?
[01:09:54] I just want to list some titles. No Griffin no, no. We gotta talk about the movie. Goddamn it. Alright. The Bone Collector gone in 60 seconds. Wait hold on. Bone Collector. We can't do this because we're gonna have to stop. Griffin no, no. Life or something like it.
[01:10:12] Stop. Stop. Griffin stop. Griffin I want to say something about original sin. Good Shepherd. Written and directed by Michael Christopher. Michael Christopher who wrote this movie and also plays Trucks and Spangler in Rubicon. And is also Angelica Houston's ex-husband on the NBC series Smash.
[01:10:32] Yes and she throws a drink in his face. Should I watch Smash? Yes. I think the answer right now during the quarantine to that question is always yes. Like should I watch? I'm like, yeah, what else are you doing? Have I already made this joke on this
[01:10:48] podcast that a friend texted should I watch The Good Dinosaur and I was like, yeah, I mean now. That's one where I'm like let's see. That movie is bad in ways that are entirely inoffensive. Why not watch it? We all apparently have all the time
[01:11:10] in the world to watch anything. Watch The Good Dinosaur, it won't make you angry. The only thing that could possibly make you angry is I wasted an hour and a half on this. You're not going to have that complaint anymore. A month from now, what is
[01:11:24] the next series of movies? Like when how further do you go down that path? You watch Cars 2. That's what happens. Oh my God. A month from now, we're all going to be watching Cars 2. By the time this episode comes out everyone's watching Cars 2.
[01:11:40] Look, I don't want to be I'm not trying to be get canceled. I'm not trying to be controversial but a month from now everyone's going to be watching Cars 2. I really don't want that. That is a bleak. That's the bleakest thing I've heard since this
[01:11:56] began and I've heard some bleak shit. I'm not going to joke around here. That's so weak. One month from now, Flashback is going to be doing an episode on Cars 2. Don't say that. I just want to say to get back to the witches of Eastwick
[01:12:14] there's that in his introduction scene, I love how his simple existence and the fact that everyone starts remembering his name creates like waves of horniness that spread through the area. Veronica Cartwright falls down the stairs. I've heard a pearl clutching but pearl exploding. Right, the pearls go
[01:12:34] everywhere. Everything is just suddenly so viscerally sexual that literally you know how in Crash Sandra Bullock falls down the stairs because she's racist? Veronica Cartwright falls down the stairs because there's too much horniness. Sandra Bullock has a supernatural level of racism in her body
[01:12:54] and it's a scene in Crash that affects the universe around her. It flucks with time and space. It's so crazy that I have any respect for it. I love Sandra Bullock in a lot of movies. I have respect for her as an actress.
[01:13:10] It's crazy considering I've seen Crash. I think about that once in a while. So this is my wildest... Oh, nonstop. You fell down the stairs. And to answer your question, Kim, what are you doing in the cars to?
[01:13:24] Two months from now, we're going to be watching that scene on a loop. That's the only thing that anyone's going to be watching. Oh my God. I could see like a good TikTok developing around Sandra Bullock eating it on the stairs. Here is my absolute...
[01:13:40] I'm surprised that hasn't become a meme structure yet actually. That you post like a bad take on Twitter The team need to discover Crash. And then the next images were falling down the stairs. I'm going to make that happen. The bad take and the fall down the stairs.
[01:13:56] I'm going to throw out what I think is my wildest take on this movie. Oh, I can't wait. But I believe that you will all within a few seconds of contemplation agree with me. I think this is George Miller's most naturalistic film. It does like over Lorenzo's oil.
[01:14:14] I feel like that's the competitor. Yeah, Lorenzo's oil you're forgetting is like fucking insane. The entire file looks like it's opening of Raising Arizona. You're right and like they're right. And it has like scenes of Nick Nolte falling down the stairs while the camera
[01:14:30] like zooms in on words in a medical document and things like that. It invents in a beautiful mind. Ron Howard, we saw what you did. But like his camera movements a lot less extreme in this movie. The lighting is less like dramatic. And usually like everything looks like
[01:14:50] a fucking Renaissance painting in a George Miller movie. Production value. Production value. I love seeing that money up on screen. This movie looks like a paperback romance novel. Like the lighting, the color of it. Every house there in like you know shares like little log cabin.
[01:15:12] Everyone has an amazing environment. I just think because he is a filmmaker of such like endless imagination and also technical skill that he can sort of pull off bringing anything to the screen. For a movie that has such insane set pieces there is a surprising amount of
[01:15:32] restraint when you compare it to the rest of his filmography in like scenes like the fucking tennis match where Susan Sarandon plays her cello so hard it catches on fire. Like shit that's literally out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. In the tennis match there is a shot
[01:15:50] where Jack Nicholson has one hand on his hip and the other hand is like casually holding up the tennis racket as he like hits three balls simultaneously and it feels like a Bugs Bunny image. It feels like an A&I stinker, psych gag.
[01:16:04] It's a fucking hilarious movie somehow. And he takes the most naturalistic film. That's what's so wild about his movies. He's a great director you guys. I don't know if you know. Well, I haven't seen Happy Feet so I can't really say.
[01:16:19] Skip straight to two. You'll be able to pick up on everything. It's a really easy universe to understand. I got it gathered yeah. You have heart songs right? What? Never mind we'll cover that later. Okay well look I think I get what you mean and I agree
[01:16:35] with you. It is just still so weird to me that he directed this film because he is someone that I think of as actually well I mean okay it helps that you have how many Mad Max movies comprising your filmography and then
[01:16:49] right you have four and then you have two babe movies. Yeah. You have a lot of Happy Feet right? You have a lot of repetition so yes things like this would stand out but I mean the Mad Max films are not are not Gingerbread cut out films.
[01:17:07] Baby Cheeks or Strange in their own ways different films. He just reinvents everything with such ease. Yes. Yes. Well Babe 2 should be nominated and that's just 100%. Babe 2 is possibly his second best film. It's very high on the list. I got it. It is iconic. And like Lorenzo's
[01:17:29] oil is the high watermark for 90's Oscar Bay drama. Like it's like that and Philadelphia for me. There's nothing like that. Like if all like Oscar Bay drama was like this people wouldn't resent Oscar Bay drama. But if all sex comedies not that they really exist anymore
[01:17:49] were this good? You could say the same thing about Mad Max with action films and you could say the same thing with Babe and Happy Feet about children's films like every time he steps up to the plate and makes a movie it sort of becomes
[01:18:01] like well if every film in this genre was this sensitive and this thoughtful then we would be living in a perpetual golden age of cinema. And obviously they won't be because he's an exceptional talent but if they even aspire to be if I felt like more films
[01:18:17] if I felt like more comedies wanted to be as good as this comedy which it just works as a comedy. It is funny it is sexy. It is star powered the scenes are good. The writing is good. The concept is good. It's just like
[01:18:33] why can't everything be at least this good? It's also a weird comedy in that so much of the comedy is tone is like subtlety of performance and individual moments and decisions. And it's all these these face-offs like after he shows up it's these
[01:18:51] one on one scenes one after the other. Yeah. That are all sort of like faintly more than faintly ridiculous like sort of completely ridiculous but also kind of real. Yeah. I don't know and I love it too and then we just kind of hard cut
[01:19:07] to they just all live there and Veronica Cartwright is just having like a horny aneurysm. Well can I say also I think another thing about the comedy in this movie is that almost every scene it feels like is primarily structured for drama yeah and the comedy comes from
[01:19:29] like sort of what's going on within it but even when you get into the more hijincy stuff it never feels like it's building around comedic rhythms and even though there's a lot of funny dialogue in this movie it doesn't have many jokes. Yeah.
[01:19:43] Like it's not a movie with punchlines it's not a movie with payoffs that are comedic the payoffs are more based in tension or trauma but there's just a simmering comedy to everything that's happening. What you're saying is really making me think back to the Bill Murray version
[01:19:57] because I can see where the punchlines would be. You can see an Ivan Wright and Bill Murray version of this movie that might be very funny. Ivan Wright man that's a shame. But it would be just a very conventional studio comedy version of this premise.
[01:20:13] Yeah. And you would have a scene like a cello catching on fire yeah and for I don't know how I mean obviously it's hysterical when that happens in this movie but also you're like yeah that's hot it's somehow thread-like needle. It's like an overt sexual symbol that works
[01:20:31] which is a hard thing to do. I say this but no disrespect to the movie I'm about to reference because it's a movie that I think is great in its own right but the Bill Murray version of this movie would at best be 9 to 5
[01:20:45] it would be 9 to 5 with magic. Right. You know it would be like what are the comedic high jinks of them torturing a guy who is so unpleasant that the audience wants to see him get it. And what this movie is is
[01:21:01] but you kind of want this guy too. Cause he's hot. Yeah. He's hot. That's the thing. So let's talk about what's scary about sexuality and our own desires and impulses. Don't you love this like I don't know I feel like this double feature Veronica Cartray, The Birds
[01:21:19] and this and just weird erotic comedies like can we make that her thing that she's really a part of the erotic stuff in The Birds but an alien. Oh yeah she's got that. That's a weird erotic movie. That's like the pent up wound up. Yeah. Like just
[01:21:37] waiting for something in the movie to be the catalyst to make her just burst. She has one of the best in the planet faces. Right. She's great at hysteria like she's the one who reacts the most vehemently to the chest bursting scene and it was partly because
[01:21:53] the blood got all over her and she as an actress did not know that was going to happen but it's also she's just great at dialing it up. Yeah. Yes. I also think that her scenes especially the ones just like at home with Jenkins are just like
[01:22:13] they're like virtuosic in terms of just like they're like monologues. Like they're just like pure unbottled mania where she is just like spinning around wheels and Jenkins is just kind of sitting there. But what we're getting at I think is like George Miller
[01:22:35] this is a hard kind of scene to do because this is like a big personality. It's like you get the joke, you get the difference between the two archetypes, you get what her hysteria is doing, you get what his yes dear nest is doing
[01:22:47] you get how it fits in the scheme of the movie and why we need to dwell in her hysteria as a thing because it's witches it's Salem we get it but it could just as easily not be interesting because you get it. Like to still have like
[01:23:01] I mean the cherry vomiting goes on so long it is so so fucking insane excruciating it's just like George Miller he just these two modes have just perfectly pitched smart comedy but also when he goes there he like fucking I mean the voodoo dog shit he just
[01:23:25] then he does like the George Miller thing where he's like alright let's do the weird shit and he does it perfectly Can I throw out an amazing amazing fact always they built a life-size animatronic Veronica Cartwright so that after the shot we see where there's clearly
[01:23:43] like a tube running through her sleeve and the cherry pits are coming out of that but it's very well done yes yes very well done they built a full-size animatronic that they could load up with cherries and cherry pits like it was a fucking tennis ball machine
[01:23:59] and just shoot it incessantly straight out of her mouth and they shot that it worked and it was so fucking disturbing that audiences were revolved by it and they cut all the footage out they were like it was too effective that it upset people
[01:24:17] I need to see this footage yep yeah me too hell yeah I need to see this footage right now the fact that like her barfing the cherries is so gross that Richard Jenkins is just like I have to kill her right now this is self-defense against her grossness
[01:24:41] this is just too insane I just have to take a poker to her head immediately when she's like terrible to do and you never lose sight of the fact that he killed his wife and it's terrible but this movie is so weird because it's never that easy
[01:24:53] she's terrible look look officer what can I say it was yucky and they went fair enough case closed and you know what she hates women so you know she hates sexuality well Richard Jenkins does that to him his job is it not very weird to see
[01:25:13] Richard Jenkins with a little bit of hair on top just a like 30% more I love him I love him too he so yeah he's right but he's the local newspaper man and he's not really oh god can we side note local news and movies god guys I know
[01:25:37] but also I love that it's local news right but then also the news is so local that the front page news is like three women live at this guy's house get a load of this share Michelle Pfeiffer and Susan Sarandon X-tree X-tree fucking going on up in that
[01:25:59] their house anyway so they all live in the house for a while I love that the tennis scene I guess is the closest to them out loud saying like I guess we have magic powers but they never actually say it I love that there's no expositional moment
[01:26:15] where they're like we are the witches of Easter they actively deny it we all were wishing for rain at the same time isn't that weird and they're like campy at campy then they start pitching this guy they form a writer's room
[01:26:31] they do like a whole like a week or two pitching on their big guys they're gonna be his dick size where one of them is like too big one of them is like really small very important thing that happens there women talking about dick size in the movie
[01:26:43] I'm very proud and that they explicitly talk about the curvature of his dick I mean that's not something you see in a studio comedy that is not like a fucking national lampoon movie that is not like a joke about it being gross and sharing that share really takes
[01:27:01] lead of that conversation like the curve she doesn't want to play in the curve when they make the voodoo doll it initially has a sort of modest penis and then they kind of like well you cut to it and it has a huge penis I love it too
[01:27:23] he's problematic but let's not lie right exactly let's give him his respect where it's due but that's the great thing is once he comes to life once all three of them fall for him once he fulfills so many of the things they pitched
[01:27:37] they're still like we're not witches we're lucky this guy happens to like all three of us at the same time well today's air I mean real life who would think that makes you a witch it makes you a woman no
[01:27:55] I get why they're slow to connect the dots with some higher power right yes right even once they're with him they're like they're mostly chilling and then I guess why is it that they I guess it's because Veronica Carright dies
[01:28:13] that's where they tap out of the whole situation and start ignoring him and that's when he freaks out and starts like tormenting them there's too many undeniable elements at that point one of the great man Arniti movies right he immediately flips out
[01:28:29] he's immediately like what do you mean you're not gonna hang out with me all the time a part I really liked was that they shoot the VHS footage and then use that later as like showing his obsession yes his big walla TVs
[01:28:47] walla TVs was a very cool prop in the 80s like you know I got 16 TVs in a grid god I love that though right yeah I mean but you love that blank check I wasn't gonna say it because I didn't want to say it
[01:29:03] no but we gotta acknowledge it you gotta acknowledge it I liked that the film also works in this sort of slut shaming of all the other women in the town around them that it's not just Veronica Carright standing in for it but you have that
[01:29:17] Seymour Sarandon goes to the market and all the women in line keep on making comments about her so that at the moment that they make the connection to Carright's death they're like look already this thing's fucking dinging our reputation everyone knows about it it's front page news
[01:29:35] and now this woman puked up cherries right I hate small towns in that way having come from a suburb yeah the feeling of fucking everybody knows your business you can't even fuck a dude right and especially because Jersey is so crowded
[01:29:53] it's like everyone's all up in each other's business yeah I can totally relate because I grew up in Greenwich Village which is just like a little small oh I couldn't imagine it's a village it's just a little village well David also grew up in the city so
[01:30:09] right yes I can't really realize David doesn't need to make a different show he lived in New York City his entire life no until I was nine then I moved to London but one thing I want to say as a New Yorker
[01:30:21] one thing I want to say that I truly appreciate is that when they decide they get back together and they're like okay let's take him down let's make a candle version of him that we torment here's how they distract him they're like go out and get some
[01:30:35] bagels and locks and he respects the mood he's like yeah that sounds good right now bagels locks and ice cream so he trots on down the road to go get bagels and locks and that whole interaction with the guy where the guy doesn't have ice cream
[01:30:51] and he's like well just give me the bagels and the fish I love that that's in this movie it's a long it's a long scene as they are about to like torment him and he's gonna do a whole fucking heebie-jeebie dance in the ice cream store
[01:31:09] and then turn into a colossal demon but let's make sure there's a full interaction of him getting grovelocks at like the Rhode Island County store because you need to know that he has good taste that he went for the grove exactly exactly just very important food
[01:31:27] movie I have to say yes cherries just the food elements I mean the cherries it's not like a positive food representation thing which is what I'm going for but it's you know Griffin I can't imagine like not having grown up with the cherry scene which is
[01:31:51] and the snake scene which are the most vivid that's a lot of snakes you wanna hear a killer burn a killer burn according to the INDB trivia page which I'm consulting a lot in this episode because there's just a lot of good stuff for this one
[01:32:07] when they were shooting the scene with the snakes and Cher was preparing to get into bed she said which one of these is John Peters hey and to that I want to offer Cher a very belated five comedy points I appreciate that while she's getting ready to get
[01:32:29] in a bed full of snakes she's like I have a zinger I could pop off just throw out a quick yuck wait and this was the same year as moonstruck? yeah that's nuts same year as moonstruck iconic like truly genuinely great and she's so wonderful in this
[01:32:49] and then moonstruck is a whole other thing and she's obviously incredible I just wanna circle back to they offer her the remaining role in this film she goes nah I'd rather have that part they said that part's already taken
[01:33:03] and she went nah I think I'm gonna play that part and they just swapped parts they didn't even tell Saranda and she beat I mean the people she beat for the Oscar that year she beat Glenn Close for fatal attraction and Holly Hunter for broadcast news
[01:33:21] two of the most iconic performances of the 80s and you can't really argue with it like it's not a thing where you're like well that's unfair Glenn Close in fatal attraction is one of the most definitive like movie star actress performances of that decade I was gonna argue
[01:33:39] there's a case to be made that those are the top three most iconic and enduring performances from leading actresses in the 80s they're in the five broadcast news fatal attraction moonstruck there's a valid argument to be made that in studio filmmaking in the 80s
[01:34:01] no three leading actress performances have endured more and had a greater impact and they were in the same goddamn year this is why I want to see the tallies of the votes how close yeah Glenn Close what if there was a wife
[01:34:23] David that's too big of a question to introduce this into the episode we don't have time to answer what if there was a woman well so they destroy Jack Nicholson by smashing up the big doll I know I'm just wrapping it up
[01:34:41] I'm just bothering to go through the plot you know I just like that he does turn into a giant monster for one second just because George Miller's like what he's not gonna not I mean come on so goddamn impressive though both like the animatronic
[01:34:57] whatever that model is that they made looks so amazing move so well yeah you have two different models there's the little baby preemie one and the giant monster one but they're also baby they are so well and like I love both of these movies but you compare
[01:35:15] this to like the big creature the big demon at the end of evil dead 2 which is the same year as this you compare this to the sandworms and beetle juice the following year and neither of those look like they're integrated into the same space
[01:35:29] and when that fucking thing appears out their window I when I don't understand how they fucking made this well it's Jack Nicholson oh he was just on one that day yeah it's weird how it looks like him yeah yeah those are visual effects they're really unnerving looking yeah
[01:35:51] so just like Jack you gotta be a demon today and he's like wow sure whatever like you know what was the other one you said it was evil dead 2 and what was the other one the sandworms and beetle juice were after this yeah
[01:36:07] yeah that's what the year after and I think both of those movies are embracing a sort of artificiality and they're more sort of expressionistic in what they're doing and this it's just like even just from a compositing level it really looks like they're occupying the same space
[01:36:23] and so often movies like this where there's a giant creature in the 80s you constantly have that like green screen halo around them where they look collaged on to the image and in this I was like is there just a 30 foot robot outside the set
[01:36:39] well it's George Miller you know it might have been it might have just been fucking huge for one shot and then of course he turns into a baby and then goes like ding which isn't but then I just like to imagine like people at their
[01:36:53] local multiplex seeing this movie that we cut to 18 months later they all have devil babies with their own hair colors and Jack Nicholson's on the big TV being like give daddy a kiss and they turn it off and it's like roll credits get out of here
[01:37:07] we gotta clean the theater like are people just leaving being like oh that was pretty good huge hit like huge huge hit huge hit huge hit like how are they just not walking out of there being like are you crazy I agree I agree
[01:37:23] here's the thing I mean it's a sad question but remember sex at the movies how are you watching it like no if Hollywood having sex in its movies yeah with a sexual energy with a real sexual energy I'm not really close to answering at the theater yeah right
[01:37:45] you have no trouble remembering that Fred Willard over here I'm sitting in my bedroom I'm not allowed to go to theaters so even that's like evaporated damn I know this is another crazy thing because none of us have read the novel fully
[01:38:03] and three of us have not read the novel at all I have five pages I just don't know I'm impressed you have a five page lead on the rest of us you're way ahead of the pack but according to Wikipedia it says uh
[01:38:19] at the end of the film towards the end of the book and just go quote here Darrell unexpectedly marries a young innocent girl named Jenny and the jail of three witches magically caused her to die of cancer none of the three witches get pregnant at the end
[01:38:35] and Darrell flees town with Jenny's younger brother Chris apparently his lover so like the ending of this film is totally invented the pregnancies are invented the sort of lingering like look he's still at large he's trying to get through to his kids
[01:38:51] he's sort of seated the earth with his progeny like all of that is just fucking Hollywood Ben what you're hearing is the people clapping for the healthcare workers at seven o'clock this will hopefully be a nice moment for people listening to this podcast
[01:39:07] that we're capturing the sound of me living too close to hospitals yeah because griff griff lives in sort of a hospital area I can admit now I try not to list like too much about where I live you know just for personal privacy I do live
[01:39:23] in a wing of Mount Sinai which has been a little I have to be a little scary recently wow oh boy let's play the box office game yeah pretty good reviews were good Ebert gave it three out of four he gave more stars
[01:39:45] than he gave which is a piece of it he loved he said the movie everyone had the same take away which is like this is superlative film making it's like a perfect star vehicle it's funny it's sexy everyone says the last 20 minutes
[01:40:03] it just devolved into too much special effects which is a crazy thing to think about now where the last 40 minutes of every movie now is 18 characters fighting a hole in the sky where's like the big special effect is actually Jack Nicholson like I mean especially
[01:40:23] you know when he's like flinging himself around and like pretty limited makeup and here's I want to read this from Ebert there's a scene where Nicholson dresses in satin pajamas and sprawls full length on a bed twisting and stretching sinuously and full enjoyment of his
[01:40:39] sensuality it's one of the funniest moments of physical humor he has ever committed like Ebert was all in on Nicholson in this movie this is the other great line in Ebert's review a lot of the time this movie plays like a plausible story about implausible people
[01:40:57] yeah that's a great take yeah but there is there's that weird plausibility I mean it's why I think in a certain way this movie is a little more toned down than most of Miller's films because he understands he's dealing with a very very wild starting
[01:41:16] point in terms of the material but the audience is going to have to buy into but he's a smart enough filmmaker to go like I got to play against some of my over-crank tendencies as a filmmaker because we're already at a 10 do we know what uptake
[01:41:30] about of the movie? no idea it's weird that it never occurred to me until now it is also fucking weird that this movie inspires three different TV adaptations the first two are pilots that never went the third one ran for a season also
[01:41:48] turns into a musical that played in multiple different major markets and then in 2008 John Updakes final novel before dying is a very belated sequel to this which I have never heard anyone talk about called the widows of Eastway no I've never heard it until you mentioned it today
[01:42:08] Miller should do it get Michelle Susan and Cher Michelle, Susan and Cher are all available get them in Miller loves to do a sequel why not? yeah I'm in but where can we go from here? I don't know how do we top this? how do we top this?
[01:42:32] he is the king of topping things though that is his life very suggestive my kind of joke I agree I think he can top anything he wants I'm looking here at the Wikipedia to try to like summarize what the plot of the widows of Eastway is
[01:42:52] because it's so involved I can't it involves that Jenny character so it doesn't really matter I'm only going to read the final line of the Wikipedia entry the novel ends with the two women happily making plans to meet up for another vacation sounds like a great ending
[01:43:14] June 12th 1987 this film opens to $9 million it's number two middle of the summer one of the highest grossing films of its year so did the pop culture witch thing specifically the strain that includes the craft practical magic etc is that because of this maybe maybe a little bit
[01:43:46] I think the witches is more directly because of this is 1990 and is in a sort of similar vibe to this the witches doesn't have I guess I mean like the women's ensemble witch movie where the witches aren't the witches are talking about a coven movie
[01:44:04] a good coven movie but with like Nicole Kidman characters I feel like this is one coven movie with Nicole Kidman in it but that's what I mean coven movie a lot of sites you see Brandon and Michelle Pfeiffer and all of them Hocus Pocus Craft practical magic
[01:44:26] those are sort of their own 90s little connection but I feel like practical magic obviously owns so much yeah practical magic Griffin what was number one at the box office June 12th 1987 RoboCup comes out in all of this it's like yeah it's not RoboCup but it's like that
[01:44:48] it is a sort of sci-fi action franchise starter franchise starter they're kicking it off yeah they're kicking it off it opens to 12 million dollars it's got a big star is it the Terminator no 87 Terminator 06 right yeah right right actor right actor it's an Arnold franchise starter yeah
[01:45:14] why am I not thinking of this oh it's Predator it's Predator it's the movie Predator it's Predator it's the movie Predator which he is not in any other Predator movies but he was in the start but Predator grossed less than the Witches of Eastwick
[01:45:30] like Total you know Witches of Eastwick had a longer tail yeah sounds about right Predator is such a weird franchise because you go from Predator 2 then big gap and it's like oh this is what Predator 3 should have been Predators then another gap
[01:45:48] then this is what Predator 3 should have been the Predator and then in between you have Alien vs Predator Alien vs Predator Requiem and Hanson vs Predator I took that walk just for that one fucking joke I'm sorry I'm sorry number two is Eastwick number three is
[01:46:12] one of the big movies of the year an action comedy sequel it's not lethal weapon 2 no it's not Beverly Hills Cup 2 or it is it is that sort of thing great movie Tony Scott never seen it only seen the first one you got rules
[01:46:34] I don't want to breast man well but Tony's pretty good Tony come on come on you can I don't know I can't do a pun with his name maybe I'm a bit of a Scott's word too yeah sure there you go
[01:46:48] number four is a movie we talked about on this episode big otur director sort of trashy fun movie at the time now feels like an austere frickin prestige drama untouchables now number five is a movie that I've never heard of so I'm gonna have to look it up
[01:47:08] John Slyce Slyce and your Jesus JD Amado just tried to FaceTime both of us while we're recording if you're hearing a notification and for the listener at home David just texted JD the word no hell yeah something that definitely will not make JD stress out
[01:47:28] so it's a John Slushinger film that you had not heard of I've never heard of it I mean he must have been no he had more movies Martin Sheen is the star Martin Sheen Robert Lozier what Jimmy Smith's is in this movie it's like it's a boy it's
[01:47:52] it's also a witchy movie it's like a New York City cop murder movie but there's witchiness what what is we're never gonna get what the fuck is he talking he's making this up he's a liar it's written by Mark Frost who of course would then go on to
[01:48:14] co-create what are you talking about this didn't ever happen and I believe it is new this week so it was not a big hit David this is a pro smiths no bits podcast and right now you are betraying that role it's about smiths this movie doesn't exist
[01:48:30] the movie is called The Believers no it's not I'm checking on this I'm checking it's a neo noir horror film directed by John Slicinger and based on the novel The Religion by Nicholas Conde based on the novel The Religion by Nicholas Conde it's Martin Sheen
[01:48:52] it's like a satanic cop movie with like voodoo curses and shit cool sounds kinda good I'm renting it right now apparently it got bad reviews but I don't know sounds kinda good the book definitely not damn 1.5 from Eber he called it TASIS which I like Judeo Christian Satan
[01:49:18] and for the movie they changed it to an Afro Caribbean Satan which sounds really thoughtful some other movies you have Harry and the Henderson's you have Ernest Goes Tech Camp that was in theaters a movie that we'll never talk about on this podcast right you have Platoon
[01:49:40] which is still in um theaters 6 months after yeah and they have the secret of my success yeah man that's it, we're done talking about The Witches of Eastwick a horny masterpiece we gotta wrap it up do you have any final thoughts Cam?
[01:50:04] well I'm really excited for the B2 episode I have to say I'm looking forward to that cause I wanna warn people in advance we got a great guest on the episode I think people will be happy that we're on the podcast finally long overdue friend of the show
[01:50:26] IRL friend of ours they turned out to not be a pig in the city fan so the episode is I wouldn't say it's contentious a little contentious so they hadn't seen it before which I did not know because they so immediately asked if they could cover the film
[01:50:44] and then they said they started watching it and realized they were wrong so what do they think they'd seen? I guess they just watched the first Babe two times that's a good question because there is no movie like Babe Big in the city
[01:51:00] there's no other of the film darts let me think about that they watched Babe they watched Babe and then they had a fever dream and that's what they remember right Babe 2 is such a good Stoner movie Stoner Stoner Classic Tom Waits which makes so much goddamn sense because
[01:51:26] Babe Pig in the city is the closest anyone has come to making a Tom Waits song visually do you think that David Lynch has seen it? Unquestionably I sure hope he has David Lynch has probably jerked off to Babe Pig in the city I don't know
[01:51:44] I literally don't know what to say For the list of the homes I just Camus Speechless but also the attic in which Ben is recording the sun has set there is just one light in the corner not above him but under them and there wasn't initially
[01:52:06] initially it was just dark Ben turned the light on it now looks like he is in Night of the Hunter or he is fucking J.N. Err he's the goddamn lady in the attic he's got the blanket over him it's some Mrs. Haversham shit
[01:52:22] I'm gonna take a photo of this I gotta find a way to screen-craft this Well there's no lights up here apparently so this is the best I could do So whose attic is it? Should we say I'm in New Hampshire and they are like
[01:52:42] weird up here and like don't believe in heat It's cold up there I don't know if they know that It's crazy I screen-shotted it Griffin I'll send it to you That's quite alright Cam thank you for joining us
[01:53:00] It's so nice to talk to you and see your face in this quarantine time I know it's weird right It's so weird Yeah But you know what? It's fine because we have which is a v-swek and other shit to rewatch It's what's keeping me going
[01:53:20] Can I just say Cam in the last year and change since you have been on the podcast our Batman episode which I guess was a little over a year ago now You have written several pieces that made me angry With with how good they were and that
[01:53:42] I mean where I just my anger dissipated quickly but where it felt like you found a way to perfectly sort of capture something in the air that seemed impossible to verbalize Your piece on a retired bit and how it relates to the Sezzy movies that it's I'm not
[01:54:08] I'm talking about retired bits We retired the bit Thank you for translating Yes I'm just saying to our listeners at home go to Vanty Fair click that hyperlink, Chaos and Collins and look at everything you've written in the last year because it's all been goddamned cool
[01:54:28] Well thank you I'm just hoping that you're not going to be seen when I can't go outside and think I can still write It's been hard It's been really hard to concentrate I can't, yeah It's been hard But it's weird I have to say movies right now
[01:54:50] have not been good distraction for me They haven't been distracting me But watching parts of this was actually pretty diverting It might be because I've seen it a million times I think George Miller is just like just a perfect Just your ideal mainstream director smart alert and diverse
[01:55:14] and repeats himself in the sense of making sequels But it never feels like he does It just never He's just really a jam This is this take that we've been developing over this miniseries that George Miller is kind of unquestionably the king of sequels Wait, what one can
[01:55:34] when he was the jury president Oh that's a good question That would be something that I'd hold against someone actually Baby, can you pull that up? Yeah But I think to your point about George Miller movies being He picked I Daniel Blake Weird Not my favorite Ken Loach
[01:55:56] No, although not a bad movie I still love George Yeah Yes, it's great So you chose a movie by the guy who did cast In that shape part I also think, I mean Griffin you've said this but I think it's true
[01:56:14] It's like they often gravitate towards movies they could never make Like Tim Burton picking Uncle Booney Or Steven Spielberg picking Lou is the warmest collar Where they're like, damn Oh, damn So George Miller picking an incredibly austere work of social realism with no embellishment
[01:56:34] Even though the king of this city is the more politically convincing film in my opinion But we're moving the word austere That's the differentiating fact No, and I think the creature of my tail picking retired bit I think it's usually a filmmaker going, that's not in my vocabulary
[01:56:54] I wouldn't even know how to start with that thing That one, that last one though, man I mean you have to admit it's a pretty good bit that she gave that the golden lion It's a better troll than appeared in the movie Yes, absolutely
[01:57:08] It is more provocative genuinely than the film She went off, she was like Fuck marriage story Fuck ad Astra Irishman's not even fucking here So fuck him It's pretty wild No, I love it, you know what? Zama, go see it Zama rules But I don't know
[01:57:32] Why not end here Because this is a thought that just sort of came to me We recorded most of these episodes before the world went into lockdown This is one of only three that we're doing post-lockdown over zoom But our listeners will probably be watching these movies
[01:57:50] along with the episode releases while they're stuck at home And this is not anything we could have anticipated or predicted But even though a lot of these films are very apocalyptic and nightmarish The Mad Max franchise in particular And Lorenzo's Oil is a movie about
[01:58:06] like the fascinating terror of not understanding diseases and bodies and medicine and science and all that sort of stuff These films are weirdly easy to watch in a time where it is hard to stay focused on anything And I think it is because George Miller has never made
[01:58:24] a film that is a passive watch His films are so sort of aporatic or using every single tool of filmmaking in one way or another that you have to fully submit yourself to it. If you put it on you're going to be fully engaged by it
[01:58:40] Whether or not you love it And I'd say it's hard not to love Yeah. Well Cam, thank you for being on the show People should listen to Flashback Yeah, Flashback on Slate Plus You and the great Dan Stevens Past and Future Guest Yes
[01:58:56] And thank you for being here Cam And thank you all for listening And please remember to rate, review, and subscribe Thanks to Ann Faraguto for co-producing this show Lame Montgomery for our theme song Joe Bonaparte Rounds for Artwork Go to BlankZaret.com for some real nerdy shit
[01:59:14] Go to patreon.com Blank Check for Blank Check Special Features where we will still be on the Toy Story Commentaries where I am sure I behave in a very very serious and sophisticated manner And as always Life or something like it
[01:59:32] Laura Croft Tomb Raider, The Cradle of Life Beyond Borders Taking Lives, Sharktail Sky Captain of the World of Tomorrow Alexander, Mr. Mrs. Smith The Good Shepherd Bay Wolf Kung Fu Panda Wanted, Changelink Salt, The Tourist Kung Fu Panda 2 She doesn't do another movie until Fucking Maleficent
[01:59:58] By the Sea Kung Fu Panda 3 Maleficent Mistress of Evil