Trance with Nia DaCosta

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:00:19] The podcast is not destroyed. It is locked in a cage and with enough force, enough violence, the lock can be broken. It comes back, the podcast, not completely, not entirely, but enough to drive you, make you feel you have been cheated, enough to make you angry.

[00:00:36] Okay, good. It's a good summation. It's from the start, right? Right? Yeah. I mean, I— Very serious. Yeah, I didn't— I've been fucking up the accents really hard this series, so I didn't even want to try to do a McAvoy.

[00:00:48] But the other line— I mean, it's shorter, but it was just tempting— was, no podcast is worth a human life. Give it a shot. No— No pod— Okay. No. No. No. You go right to Connery, I think, with the Scottish accent. I do.

[00:01:04] And Connery is really in his own realm of both the way he talks and just impressions. Like, you know, like, there's only— You're just doing Connery.

[00:01:14] Yeah, I saw someone on Reddit slam my weak attempt at a Dave Bautista impression in our Knock at the Cabin episode, which is my defense. I don't think I've heard anyone nail a Bautista. I'd like to hear someone nail it, because he does have a specific cadence.

[00:01:27] It's cadence and pitch, obviously, but I just like— You know, that whispered thing. Right, but there's like— I didn't get close, and I don't think anyone has, but someone said, we have to accept that Griffin basically has two impressions, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Liam Neeson. Joseph Gordon-Levitt in—

[00:01:42] He does a really good Joseph Gordon-Levitt in Inception. Which movie, though? Inception. Oh, okay. I don't remember a single damn thing, but please tell me. It's a loaded die. Only I know the exact weight and shape of this loaded die.

[00:01:55] He does have that weird, like, in the back of his throat thing. That he's, like, clenching or something. Yeah, and he's standing up very straight. His neck is very long. Why? Did you want him to do Don John, or, like, what were you— I mean, I did that.

[00:02:09] I don't want to hear about that. No, I was thinking of The Walk, which I think I told you maybe last time. That's so rude. I can't say that on a podcast. I was going to say, I don't know if you remember this,

[00:02:23] but we were recording our episode on Cast Away, and in the middle of recording, you went, Can we stop recording for a second? And we said, Yeah. And you went, The Walk made me almost want to quit filmmaking. Start recording again. That is so funny.

[00:02:36] So we can cut it out again. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Or we can keep it in and double it. People actually listen to me on this podcast. Well, obviously a lot of people listen to your podcasts. And I was, like, texting a director to be like,

[00:02:44] Is this line producer great? Blah, blah. And he was like, Yeah. Also, I loved you on Blank Jack. And I was like, Oh, which episode? He's like, Both episodes. I was like, I'm about to do another one. Trilogy. Trilogy. Trilogy. I got a hat trick. This is fun.

[00:02:59] It's a hat trick. We got to keep having you. We're in person for the first time ever. Yes. Your first two appearances were both. Well, first time was Deep in Lockdown. Second time, you were in London prepping The Marvels. Yeah. And now you're in person. Yeah.

[00:03:13] It's been 84 years. Times passed. The first time I was in my closet. I remember you were in your closet. Yeah. Like talking into, you know, air pods or whatever. Yes. But now you're with us. And also, I don't know if you saw, on the shelf now, prime position,

[00:03:28] the Wilson Volleyball. Oh, I did see that. And I can't remember what it was. It was over there on the left? Yeah, right by King Ralph VHS. Oh, yes. That's, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Really important artifacts of our culture. Yes. It's for the culture.

[00:03:43] Griff, you've added a lot of stuff. I brought over a lot of little guys. So I shouldn't bring you a gift next time I come back? Please. Bring us gifts. I'm so sorry, Ben. Do you have like, I don't know, the space stone? I don't know.

[00:03:55] I was trying to think of it. Yeah, if you have any spare infinity stones lying around, we'll take those. Let me check. The space stone is the, it actually is the one I would want. That's the one where you can travel, you can teleport.

[00:04:06] I want the reality stone. Once you have the reality stone, you can do anything though. I feel like. Yeah, but you're not smart enough to, like, neither are I. No one is. Yeah, because then you just accidentally, like, turn your mom into balloons and be like,

[00:04:17] how do I undo that? I don't know. She might be easier to handle in that state. Blowing away. Yeah. I'll hold on to her. Space stone, it's just like, I want to go to McDonald's. Space stone would be mine too, because I don't like flying. And that's it.

[00:04:30] I don't like flying either. How do you deal with it? You have to fly. You're a busy, you know, important person. Part of it is really, that's very sweet. You are. Hollywood big wig. I, well, part of it is like, just mentally, like, trying to convince myself

[00:04:43] I'm not going to be in a plane crash. Yes. Which has actually gotten a lot better, because I used to get on planes and I'd be like, this is it. Yeah. And now I get on and I just know I'm going to be slightly scared whenever there's turbulence.

[00:04:54] Me too. Would you do the thing where you'd, like, eat a bagel before you got on the plane and you'd be like, might be the last bagel I ever ate? Like, I would do stuff like that. No, I would be more like, like, the night before

[00:05:05] I would have, like, heart, like, it would be like, you know, like, scared. And then I saw the guy and then I saw the ritual. Like, I had to get to the airport early. I had to, like, be through thing, like, hours before. Have a meal.

[00:05:17] Have a drink. Yeah. Chill. And now it's sort of like, I just know I'll be scared when there's turbulence. That's pretty much it. And then I also got an Ativan prescription. I was about to say, there's this wonderful thing called Klonopin, but Ativan's good too.

[00:05:30] I don't really use it. Also, I took an Ativan when I fly to London because that's always bumpy. Um, I, um, and I only resorted to medication because I had this flight to Israel that was insane. Like, I was like, I mean, it wasn't even that

[00:05:45] I thought we were going down. It was just like so, like, up and down and it was terrible. And I'd never been on a flight that bad before and of course, you look at flight attendants and they're just like, That's my first thing, of course,

[00:05:56] is you look right at them. upside down flying to the cabin and they're like, everything's fine. Um, and then I was like, how long was that? It was like an hour and a half and she was like, I don't know, like 40 minutes. And everyone was,

[00:06:08] you can hear like the cutlery clattering. Yeah. And she's like, yeah, we're just flying through like a weather system. Well, why are we doing that? Do you do the jello thing? The jello thing? Oh, imagine yourself. It's a classic, uh, anxiety thing they tell people

[00:06:22] who are afraid of flying. It's imagine that the plane isn't a big thing of jello and so yes, it's wobbling around within the jello but that's it. I do the gravel thing where like, so my manager's brother is a pilot and he was like, imagine driving down

[00:06:35] a country road and there's no turbulence. It's like the car going over gravel. Not even going into a pothole going over gravel. That makes sense. Well, bitch, that makes me feel a lot better. I have a question for the two of you. Yeah.

[00:06:48] Have either of you ever tried hypnotherapy to get over your fear of flying? Hey! Still watching this movie again? I was like, I should try that. 100% effective. Works perfectly. No problems. Now I'm not afraid of flying but I am like an art thief. That would be my fear.

[00:07:01] Oh my God. Like not afraid of flying at all but I'm like, why do I have this in my jacket? I'm terrified of Rosario Dawson now. I can't be more afraid. You're watching Star Wars. You're like curled up in a ball. She's in Star Wars, right?

[00:07:15] You know what's one of the most demented things about this movie? What? I was reading interviews with Danny Boyle talking about why he made this film. And the origin— I didn't realize how bizarre the story of him getting to making this film is. Right.

[00:07:29] But that he was like, I had never made a movie where a woman, a female character was at the heart of the story. What about 28 Days Later? You know what? I might even say to Danny, like, I'm not sure that's right, buddy. No! A, I'd say,

[00:07:43] I'm not sure that's right. B, I'd say, this is the one? Yeah, this isn't the— That's the thing that drew you to this? That feels like something that a director says on a press tour where they're like, I don't know, that sounds like something interesting to say.

[00:07:55] And I would have to be like, you know, Slumdog, it's kind of like a man and a woman, 28 Days Later, Life Less Ordinary. You've made actually a fair amount of movies that you'd be like, I forgot I made Slumdog Millionaire. Yeah, like, I feel like sometimes,

[00:08:09] like, if I told you, if I was like, you remember in Candyman? Would you go like, what? Oh, Candyman, right, I directed that. Or would you not? I might just because I have problems. Anytime anyone's like, I like that movie, I was like, literally someone said

[00:08:23] I really liked it and I was like, really? Yeah, anyway, that's my own personal issue. I just sometimes feel like directors don't think about their own oeuvre as much as I do. Sure, I also think during press tours, your brain turns to mush.

[00:08:36] Yeah, that's part of that too. I remember him going on FilmSpotting when this was coming out. Danny Boyle went on and he actually like did the top five with them and the top five… What's the top five? FilmSpotting, a great film podcast at Chicago,

[00:08:49] they're friends with the show, which has been going on for 18 years now. Oh wow. They always do like a top five list that's usually linked to whatever the new release film is that they're talking about that week. So it'll be like a decision to leave

[00:09:03] and then it's like top five cops in love movies or whatever the fuck it is. Right, that was one they did recently. So they had Danny Boyle on, I think they reviewed Trance and then they had him on for the top five which if they have guests

[00:09:14] interview subjects like that they don't usually do the work of making a top five list. Sure. But their list was top five Danny Boyle characters. Oh. And he was like I have no idea who are my characters. He was like my exercise is I only want to pick

[00:09:29] female characters because I feel like I've underserved clearly something that's bothering him. Yeah, it was when this was coming out and he was just like Trance was part of what drew me to it. That's funny because he's made no movies since this that had female leads. No.

[00:09:44] Not to drag you Danny Boyle. No, look I think he has good female characters he doesn't make films that are female driven per se. Right. But it's not like I feel like his films are lacking. Anyway listen this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David

[00:09:59] I'm Griffin. So quick and so muttered. The twist of this movie is that Rosaria Dawson is the main character but you can't reveal that on the press tour. Not to spoil Trance for everybody. I just watched this for the first time and every ten minutes there's another twist

[00:10:11] in the movie and I'm going he thinks she's the heart of the movie and then we get to the end and you go yes. But yes the twist of this movie is that every ten minutes there's another twist. It is insane. Who's our guest? Well I'm not done

[00:10:24] setting up the show. Oh sorry. David there's a table that needs to be set here. Sorry I just wanted to ask her something. I'm a fan of filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy

[00:10:37] passion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear sometimes they shave all the hair off their body baby. Well except for their head she keeps the tresses. I don't know. I did like how he was like hair connects us to our base selves and I was like

[00:10:50] there's so much hair probably on top of my woman's head. That is the weirdest explanation by the way. Can I tell you when I first saw this movie when it first came out I guess in 2013 I think it's the cinema that's now on third half

[00:11:01] that I don't know Village East or whatever The AMC or the second Ambient Fall City Center which is now owned by Angelica. Oh great. Yes. But I watched it and when that razor sound filtered in from the bathroom I thought to myself what the fuck is this?

[00:11:17] And then when they pandered her body and they were like bare puss and Rosario and he was like how did you know? I was like this is crazy. It is one of the more bizarre scenes that we've ever covered on this show.

[00:11:29] Also she did that way too fast. Way too fast? We have to get to Nook's and Granny's girl to get that bare? I mean and and like there's a I think there's an after skincare routine happening She's shiny! She needs something That looks like

[00:11:44] that was three separate rounds on consecutive days follow ups Yes. She actually leaves No, she leaves she gets in a cab she's like I'll be back in like 45 minutes Yeah, yeah I'll be back for you. We're talking about a mini series called Trainspotcasting Today we're talking about Trance

[00:12:00] a true blank check film. I mean and really I know this is not his immediate follow up to a Best Picture winner but this is a pretty crazy follow up to a Best Picture winner and then nomination you know like What was right before this? 127 hours

[00:12:14] Oh, people like that one Yes And that's his actual like okay, I made a Best Picture winner I want to make this movie with just one character trapped in a rock I thought Somedog was the Best Picture winner That's what I'm saying Somedog gets in this But still

[00:12:26] After that and that got attention and awards 127 hours was a mild check clear so then it was like okay, you once again get to make whatever you want He's like this time I'm gonna do something wild Our guest today returned to the show for the third time

[00:12:39] The hat trick Nia DaCosta in person Welcome Thank you I'm incredibly excited to be here That's really nice And I haven't seen you since I escorted you into the offices of VH1 For Vinyl Oh, for VH1 That's right That's what it was

[00:12:55] What did I see you after that? I think Well, Videology Trivia Oh, I saw you from afar I didn't like talking to you Sure, sure But yes I think we talked about this in the first appearance but you were working for VH1 on this pilot that never went

[00:13:07] Yeah When he was in his 30s Yup It was an attempt at creating a new I love the 80s type show I guess Guy Code and Girl Code kind of ate their lunch a little but the idea was to have comedians in their 20s and comedians

[00:13:21] in their 30s riffing on the differences Shortly after that pretty much everyone at VH1 got fired so Yeah I think it was our show But you were prompting me You were like and what are your thoughts on Rent? That's so funny Like when you're in your 20s

[00:13:36] Me and the other AP were just like writing things and we're like this is sick because I was 23 at the time maybe or something I was 24 maybe Yeah, hilarious Yeah, bizarre Bizarre It's so nice to have you back in person for the first time talk about this movie

[00:13:51] which I think you we were waiting for you to be out of the machinery of the humongous movie you were directing Which you are not completely out of No I don't think any Marvel director is out until the movie's out And then what happens?

[00:14:06] Do they like give you a gold watch or something? I wish I don't know They give you a sticker for You tried Yeah, he did it You get a gold star And then your box office bonuses I guess Oh, that's not bad Which is okay

[00:14:20] That's a gold watch Yeah But we're waiting for things to calm down a little bit to have you back on which we're very eager to do And I feel like this was locked in for a while It was an immediate trance We might have even given you

[00:14:31] first pic of all Boyle and you immediately said trance Yeah, I did Which is cool Oh, no, no, no No Did you? That would have been crazy Maybe Alright No, I would No, no, no I think you had a couple left because yeah, check the emails

[00:14:46] Because I think I would have chosen 20 Days Later probably That's genuinely my favorite But I assume you Someone very amazing has it already Well, no Because 20 Days Later took us a while to fill So now I'm You might have You know what? I might have just said trance

[00:15:00] and we're like Here we go Because initially there was some thought of you coming on our Kubrick Yeah But you were still in delay And you would have to do a Zoom And you wanted to do it in person And you said Wait, Danny Boyle Very tempting

[00:15:12] Is it weird that I would have wanted to do trance? And I was like You want to do trance Like that's the call Right It's not It's not It's a What was it? There's a weird special feature on the trance Blu-ray that's Danny Boyle of Retrospective Uh huh

[00:15:58] That's him running through all the films he made for Fox Okay Being like I think Fox is the best place to make movies You realize the majority of his films have been for Fox Although some of them like Slumdog were made for That was Others studios

[00:16:12] and then bought by Fox Right, right You know And some of them were Fox searchlights Some of them were Big Fox And then was eventually taken by Fox Life Less Ordinary and Beach were both Fox So he was just running through only his Fox films Right

[00:16:26] And he said because we were like a little confused on the 20 days later timeline about 9-11 and everything The stuff The empty streets of London all the opening stuff he said was shot in August in isolation and then production started in earnest Yeah We said that

[00:16:42] at the episode at the beginning of September Yeah, yeah, yeah We were thinking that he shot the isolated stuff in September and then 5 days in 9-11 happened Yeah, he said the first episode But whatever It doesn't matter Look The point is Trance You saw Trance in theaters

[00:17:00] You said 2013 had not seen it since Love Danny Boyle so much rushed to the theater Yes To go see his latest Oof And I fucking loved it I was like I was like Wow This is Because I was like this is like a pulpy B movie

[00:17:16] And this is also like he had just made two more Oscar-y movies I don't know how you feel about Slumdog in 127 Hours I haven't seen Slumdog since it was on theaters and I loved it at the time Yeah And then 127 I enjoyed

[00:17:27] But it does feel like him being like let me get narshty again It's a It is a trashy movie in every sense So trashy After two movies that are all like the human spirit Right, right Love conquering all Yeah This is like No We're gonna just be

[00:17:43] I think like watching it again I was like I don't love it but I still really enjoyed how batshit it was It's wild It is wild He asked not to be named because he doesn't want to speak ill of filmmakers but a friend I knew told me

[00:17:59] that this was the only movie he had ever walked out of in theaters and I wanted to know what was the moment that broke him that made him walk out and we were debating what it could be and I was like I don't know I'm not sure

[00:18:11] I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure But I was like what is the moment that made him walk out of that movie and he said I don't remember it super well but I think it was a scene where Rosario Dawson says aloud So you're telling me

[00:18:25] the only way to blank is if I seduce have sex with him in his mind Oh yeah Or something like that which is early Yeah It's um That's when I was like two would try to have sex with Jean-Claude Cassel in any context However

[00:18:42] My hands are tied here I think I don't think Yeah I might just say. Not have like hypno sex. Also he very clearly is into her and she knows so it's like you can just be like let's bang.

[00:18:52] But actually watching it again I realized that's actually supposed to be like the sincere romantic attachment of the film. Right. But again if she were actually just the main character of the movie. Sure.

[00:19:03] It would have been a much more interesting film I think and made a lot more sense. Yes. I would agree with that. I do think that is the ultimate flaw. Making her the main character only by the end works against the film dramatically.

[00:19:14] Well and also again that happens at the end of Trance. Be warned everyone. Yeah we're talking spoilers on Trance. Having the ostensible main character kind of die off screen and be like yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's uninteresting. Yeah.

[00:19:29] But I do think you're going to have audience members walking out being like what the fuck was I. You know like you know like I do think that's why this movie got this weird bristly reaction like people were kind of mad at this. Yeah. No.

[00:19:41] Look I'm a big Danny Boyle fan. I have seen most of his films in theaters. Pretty much all of them from 20 Days Later on other than this and Trainspotting 2 and Trainspotting 2 I think I was getting my hair cut that day when it was playing.

[00:19:55] One day it was in theaters? That one day. And then this I just remember the response being so violently negative. Yeah. Not just people disliking it being disappointed people being like fuck that movie. Yeah. That I kind of avoided it for 10 years. Yes.

[00:20:11] People were mad at this movie. And yes. Which I get it. I mean this is a movie that that almost feels spiteful to the audience. Yeah but I don't feel that way. Right. No I don't think it's spiteful. I feel like it's just like fun and really absurd.

[00:20:24] Right. Like it's really. It feels to me a little bit like when I was trying to think of what the specific example of this is and I couldn't pull it up but I think there are a lot of these when like comedy

[00:20:35] sketches or like TV show episodes that parody con artist movies. Where the joke is the amount of double crosses. Yeah yeah yeah. Where this is a movie where every 10 minutes they're like okay now we're going to change your perception.

[00:20:48] Actually she was in league with him before this and then 10 minutes later they're like he was the one getting one over on her. Right. But there's only three characters. So they just kind of keep turning over and over and over.

[00:21:00] But I don't see I think it's actually really straightforward. The thing that like is so like weird is the way that she's narrating the whole thing because she has to keep the deception going.

[00:21:09] So she's like so I got confused watching it this time whether or not she honestly couldn't figure out where the painting was or because in the beginning I was like oh she knows where it is. She just doesn't want to let these guys know. Right right.

[00:21:20] And she's actually surprised when he comes back to her because she is looks like oh shit. And then I was like oh she actually doesn't know what the fuck it is either. Yeah. But it was all very.

[00:21:32] It just sucks that all of her main character stuff happens in retrospect like it's all flashbacks. And then you're like and he's abusive and you're like. Yeah. Well that I do think it's sprinkled in a little casually and then just kind of.

[00:21:44] But this is the problem with France which I don't think it's. You've identified the one problem with France. There's a little flaw in this. But is is that it's you know for a movie like this to really work. Sure.

[00:21:57] It should be like usual suspects thing where you're like oh I'm excited to rewatch it. Yes. Now knowing that he's coming back. I don't turn off trans and go like now I have to rewatch it knowing everything that I now know because I'm like I barely understand. No.

[00:22:09] I mean we've talked about this on the podcast. I'm certainly with like six cents because we've covered that but just even anytime we're talking about twist movies that like the most effective Hall of Fame twist movie

[00:22:20] is that people talk about that way where you want to rewatch it immediately through different eyes. The secret is the movie wasn't a twist movie. It was a twist movie. And it was a twist movie. And it was a twist movie.

[00:22:30] So I don't want to go into all the details but it's a movie that you watch through different eyes. You watch a movie through different eyes. The secret is the movie works well on its own dramatically before you get to the twist.

[00:22:42] Like it is grabbing you on a different level. It's not making you think when's the twist going to happen. When's the rug pull going to happen and then something recontextualizes it at the end.

[00:22:51] Whereas this is a movie where ten minutes in you're like this movie's gonna keep on fucking with me until the end. Right. Right. Right. Where does this ultimately. At a certain point throw up your hand. untangled that feels very much like the paper insert

[00:23:03] and the Planet of the Apes DVD that explains the timeline of the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes. Where it is just a cliff notes version of all the events of the movie rearranged in chronological order. It's a 10 minute super cut just so you understand.

[00:23:18] It's not confusing at all, because she explains literally everything. The confusing thing is, and this is where it's kind of absurd, is that like, it all is based on hypnosis. You're like, oh, anything can happen. Anything can happen. Here's the confusing thing. You bought this on Blu-ray?

[00:23:34] I've recently. Griffin, you don't need it. He does. He needs it. No, he doesn't. He needs it. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I bought it on iTunes. It had the special features. I have recently become a completist of trying to own every movie we've covered.

[00:23:51] Oh, I see. I'm with that. I'm with that. That's bad. I like having the library. I like looking at the history. Me too. Of this thing we've built. But, I believe it's out of print. Yeah, a lot of Boyle movies are tough to watch on physical media.

[00:24:06] Boyle has one of the worst physical media records for a director of his stature, where there's like four movies of his that have never been released on Blu-ray. And a lot of them are out of print now. 28 days? I can't believe that. That is not easily accessible.

[00:24:24] 28 days, you can't rent on iTunes right now. What? Why? I don't know. I think it's a music thing. But, it was up four months ago. It was, but I do think there's something weird with that movie that maybe makes it more expensive.

[00:24:36] He's just got weird distribution things going on considering that most of his movies are at Fox. How do you feel about physical media? Physical media. Like, do you buy a lot of Blu-rays? No, I don't buy a single DVD or Blu-ray. I do buy vinyls though. That's something.

[00:24:51] But, I am going to start buying physical media things. And enjoy TV shows since all these people are crazy. Get plucked away. Yeah, it's very, I guess, I mean we don't have to go into a big existential philosophical exploration of the state of streaming

[00:25:08] and how it's affected the industry. Basically every other episode of our show. Yeah, it just, yeah, I found it very interesting. And it's also alarming that you can't buy 20 days later on the internet. Beach and Millions have never been released in any format past DVD. Are you serious?

[00:25:26] Yeah, and I think maybe one other one I'm forgetting. Yeah, there's a bunch that are... Life Less Ordinary has also only been on DVD. What's the first one Dead Man's Shoes? It's called, that's a good movie though, Shane Meadows. That's a Shane Meadows movie that I love.

[00:25:40] It's called Shallow Grave. Yes, yes. Same basic family. Criterion put that out at least. So that's like preserved. Criterion, bless them. Yes. I would say I was feeling some, I'm about to call it Dead Man's Shoes again, some Shallow Grave and trance.

[00:25:57] Here's what I really enjoy about trance and why I loved it when I first watched it. I, okay, a couple things. I love the erotic thriller. I feel like it's a genre that needs to be reclaimed by women because you look back at all of them

[00:26:09] and you're like, oh, all those women were abused while making these films, great. But I think it's interesting, an interesting space to explore all of that shit that we don't talk about in movies or in our culture, just like desire and how it fucks everyone up or doesn't.

[00:26:22] And I was like, oh, this is kind of an erotic thriller. It's not erotic enough really. But if you look at it through that lens or you look at it through like it's a pulpy B movie thriller but done really well by a director,

[00:26:35] then it's like, then you're like, oh, this is really fun. Like I wish they all kind of looked like this because the plot itself is not really elevated at all in any way, shape or form. But the style of it, I thought was really great.

[00:26:48] Can I ask you a question? Yes. What do you think of James McAvoy's performance? Look, we're gonna dig into this. I love James McAvoy. And this was sort of in this moment when, well, I guess at this point he's pretty established. Yeah. Just Wanted is what, like 2008?

[00:27:06] It's weird that it felt like Wanted was like, okay, so this guy's gonna have a really successful run as a leading man probably in both blockbusters and in, you know, art house films, whatever, serious movies. And then it's like, he gets tied down to the X-Men thing,

[00:27:21] which I think he's good in all of those. He's fine. But it doesn't really do anything for him. Yeah. Well, because that's a tough role. Cause you know, especially if you're not Patrick Stewart, it's still like, okay. First Class, I think he's really fun.

[00:27:34] The more he has to start playing Stewart, like as those movies, Perfect Grass, it's wild to think he did four of them. Four. He sure did. There's four of them. First Class, Future Pass, the one with purple Oscar Isaac. And then Dark Phoenix. You forget?

[00:27:50] I didn't watch that one. Oh, you didn't watch that one. You and the rest of the world. Yes. I just couldn't abide by it. But like by that one. But that's the one where Jennifer Lawrence says, we need more, we should call it X-Women. Yeah. I was upset.

[00:28:03] And the patriarchy fell that day. Do you remember? People thought it was an earthquake, but it was actually a seismic effect. Of that, yeah. That's like Avengers Endgame when the women appear for two seconds. They do. And it's like, that's what we're gonna give you.

[00:28:15] Nia, it's not two seconds. It's like 10 to 15 seconds. I just think it's so disrespectful to spend 10 years basically ignoring women in your franchise. Except for like, obviously there's some really good ones and the way like Scarlett Johansson's character evolved and the way Pepper Potts.

[00:28:31] No, it's just in case you wanna cut this out. Pepper Potts, Gwen Thompson. I should know these next. Pepper Potts evolved, which I think was a lot to do with Robert Downey Jr. being like, this character needs. Yes, he was the one who was like,

[00:28:42] can we make this a screwball thing where we're actually entangled? We need to have like sexual chemistry. Exactly. Which is why those movies are good. Exactly, I completely agree. But anyway. But even if you compare the way they introduce Scarlett Johansson in Iron Man 2

[00:28:55] where they're like, ooh, sexy lady. She's got thighs. Yeah. And she'll use them. It's so insane in very 2010, whenever that came out. And then her in Endgame, it's like a lot of work has been done. But it's like, don't give me this little boop, boop,

[00:29:07] little boop in your movie. Well, but Nia, imagine. They can get the task done with them. It makes me upset. Nia, imagine instead of 15 seconds. Just to be clear, Nia, this movie's coming out, this episode's coming out three months before your Marvel movie.

[00:29:21] So if you want to cut that out, you just let us know. No, it's fine. No, I've said this to them. Imagine that instead of 15 seconds of seeing all of them appear on screen looking powerful in action poses, Jennifer Lawrence just turns to a guy and says,

[00:29:34] we should call them ex-women and walks out the room. But also she says it and then kind of holds for applause and then goes, the door's that way. And McAvoy's like, I mean. Sure. Also, it's also like, it's so- We got two on the team?

[00:29:46] No, it's so sad. Yeah, it's so silly. But I was gonna say it might be with Jennifer Lawrence. Not with her, but like with what happened to Mystique. Mystique, after the first movie, would be blue the entire time. Yes. Her whole thing.

[00:29:59] Her whole thing is she never be blue. She is gonna be who she is. I know. Why does this girl walk around with this 80s curly blonde hair? Because she didn't like being in the makeup. I know. Which is annoying. It's one of those. I'm like-

[00:30:08] It works so against the character arc though. It's amazing. But that tells you a lot about like how at that level actors and movies at the level, they're just like, okay. Whatever. As an X-Men nerd, I just hate that Mystique

[00:30:19] is like an unambiguous hero in those movies anyway. It just drives me crazy. And like by the final one, she's like, all right, X-Men, you're over there. Come on, this is called a P-House movie. Yeah, I was like, what planet is Mystique gonna be leading the answer to?

[00:30:29] It's supposed to be like, she's supposed to wear a crazy white dress with skulls on it. She's supposed to be assassinating mid-level political figures. Yeah. Yeah, but no, but it's like, now she's the biggest star in the world. She has to be the hero of this franchise.

[00:30:41] I know what happened. Days of Future Past is also so wild because you see, they have to like construct the plot around like, you're on a secret spy mission by yourself. And it's like, because we have Jennifer Lawrence

[00:30:51] for six weeks, so we need to shoot her own plot line. Right, right, right. What do you think of James McAvoy's performance in the film? This is what I was gonna say. Because there was a lot of questions. I like McAvoy a lot.

[00:31:02] And I think few people with his ability have had such bad luck in picking the right projects. But I think about this sometimes with actors who just have bad taste. And I'm not saying he has bad taste. It's a question. But, because I think he actually,

[00:31:15] in terms of like when I watch him in bad movies, his commitment, level of commitment is insane. And also his tone is usually where the movie's tone should actually be. I agree. He's usually good at judging that. Yeah. And he's willing to go big or silly. Yes.

[00:31:31] As required. Yes. Which I've always liked about him. Like he was great when he hosted SNL. Sure. And a lot of his choices, see sometimes I go, does he have bad taste, right? And then other times I go, on paper, almost all of these seem like good decisions.

[00:31:45] Does he just have bad luck? This is on the lower end of the McAvoy leading performances for me. But I wonder how much of that is just like, is this character kind of unplayable? Yes. Yes, that's probably true.

[00:31:58] I read a thing where he said he read the script and 10, 15 pages in, he was like, I don't wanna play this guy. He's a victim. There's nothing active to play here. He doesn't remember who he is. He's so passive. The whole time he's just going,

[00:32:10] what happened to me? What's going on? Right. And then he's like, but I kept reading it because it was Danny and I wanted to work with him. And then like 20 pages in, I was like, oh, this guy's more complicated. I'm kind of intrigued.

[00:32:20] And it's like, he becomes more complicated in that he becomes one of the most loathsome people in the world. Right. But it's not even like fun at a scale of like mustache twirling villainy. He's just kind of unpleasant. Because also that part happens so late. So late.

[00:32:33] But then he gets really gross. I think by the time, okay. When he, what did I write? When he jumps onto the ledge on the roof, I was like, oh, is this supposed to tell me that he's an abuser or something?

[00:32:45] Like, is it supposed to tell me he's a crazy man? It goes from him being a passive blank to just being kind of like gross and annoying to then being horrendous. And sweaty. Sweaty. But I think Danny knew exactly what he was doing.

[00:32:57] I just think maybe I just hate him so much. But I mean, I couldn't even hate him because I was just like, I kind of ignored him at this point. Yeah. I was like, I just want Rosario and Vincent to be together.

[00:33:08] You zone out on him and start to just be like, oh, like Vincent Cassell is the secret second lead. Yeah. That's sort of interesting. But I would say this movie begins with the suggestion that James McAvoy is a clever clogs who's up to something. Yes.

[00:33:23] And then as the movie goes on, you're sort of like, oh, he wasn't? This guy, yeah. Genuinely. Like you keep expecting him to be like, that's why I staged all of this. And like, that's what you were seeing happen. And then of course the ultimate twist is no.

[00:33:36] Did you see that it was supposed to be Fassbender until like very late in the game playing the Cassell parts? Oh, well. Playing the Cassell part, really? Yeah. And it's like, oh, I could see, they obviously had a well-established sort of like, they're good rivals on screen.

[00:33:52] Well, Professorist and Magneto, you know, they represent the two. I can't imagine anyone but Cassell. Well, that's the thing. Cassell, you're just like, I don't want to watch fucking this McAvoy guy. Like, it just feels like they're in different movies

[00:34:02] in a way where Cassell's movie is a lot more enjoyable. Vincent Cassell is the best actor alive at playing someone who you always think could kill you, but you are always attracted to and also always think he'd be ready to throw down. Not that you want to,

[00:34:18] not just that you want to have sex with him, but that if you're like, hey, can we have sex? He'd be like, of course, yes. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to kill you. And you're like, I'll take my chances. He has the most bizarre energy.

[00:34:29] I mean, his face looks like a knife. And you're like, what are you, like four-eight? Can you crawl into like between walls? You know he's taller. But you know what I mean? He has this kind of weird squirrely energy that I love, but then he also does project

[00:34:42] like so much intensity and strength. Yeah, such a great, anytime anyone uses, any director uses him, I'm like, well, you're smart. I also just think when he does English language films, there's this odd comic energy on top of it. He's six two. Yeah, that's fucking nuts.

[00:34:59] I'm married to a literal fucking supermodel. Well, have you seen these two by the way? Oh yeah. I mean, she's the hottest person I've ever seen, but also she's like 25. He was married to Monica Bellucci. I know, it's absolutely insane. But that's what I love about him.

[00:35:09] You're like, you know, if you just look at him out of context, you're like, okay. But then as soon as he like starts moving and doing things, you're like, mm, and of course. Such an interesting guy. Well, we should acknowledge he is l'enfant de n'époux.

[00:35:22] Oh, who are his parents? His father was a famous French actor who had like an entirely different vibe than him. Gerard Depardieu? I'm kidding. Why am I forgetting his first name? Pierre Cassell? I think it's David Cassell. Let me look it up. Oh no, Jean-Pierre Cassell. Thank you.

[00:35:38] He looks like a French actor. Yes, but what's- You know, here's what he looks like. Oh, wow. He looks like a guy in a French movie who'd be like, and you'd be like, yeah, this is a French actor. He plays like the porter and murderer

[00:35:49] on the Orient Express. Okay. He did a couple of Hollywood films, but he was a huge French star, but was sort of a very genial, warm presence on screen. And I think Vincent Cassell's talked about like, there was a bit of a Kirk Douglas, Michael Douglas thing.

[00:36:04] Sure, he had to come out of the rock. Where he's like, my father's shadow looms so large in French cinema that I have to be the opposite of his persona. And like him coming out with Lehenne was being like, I'm fucking of my generation. I'm scary, I'm violent.

[00:36:19] Best decision he made. Yeah, but then whenever he does American films, and I think, or at least English language films, and he speaks well, but something about him speaking in English makes him feel like a cartoon version of a French person. Really, I disagree.

[00:36:34] I don't say this in a bad way. I think there's this odd energy he has. Like obviously Soderbergh weaponized it comedically for the Oceans movies. The Indian Capoeira, for no reason? Yes, but then like Black Swan. I think that's one of the funniest jokes in a movie ever.

[00:36:48] When he does the dance in the Oceans 12. It's so funny. Like Black Swan, Eastern Promises, this. He's incredible in Eastern Promises. So good, I have to watch that again. The best. The best. So good. You wanna know something else about him?

[00:37:03] He is the voice of the Denis Leary character in Ice Age in France. That, I love this. You like that? I feel like you'd, I knew you'd like that. Yeah, that's cool. I really like, cause now, you know, every Disney Plus movie ends with 15 minutes of credits

[00:37:18] on who the dubbing voices were in every country. Right, right, right, right. I always watch through that to see if I can recognize like who's the equivalent star in which country. Oh yeah. I know, I mean, French comedians, I tend to know better than the other ones.

[00:37:31] What was I going to say about him? You're talking about his roles. Oh, also the voice of Robin Hood in Shrek. That's right, Monsieur Hood. Maybe that's why I think he sounds like a cartoon version of a French person. That's so funny.

[00:37:42] Cause that is just him playing into the stereotype. And now he's playing Julius Caesar in the new Asterix movie, so. Yes. Pretty exciting. You know Asterix, the French cartoon character? It's like the MCU of France. The biggest live action film franchise.

[00:37:55] He's playing Julius Caesar in the latest one. And Marion Cotillard playing Cleopatra. It's an all-star cast. Guillaume Canet directing and playing Asterix? That's right. Wait, what? Guillaume Canet, the French actor. You know what? We're way down a rabbit hole.

[00:38:10] We're down the rabbit hole we want to be in because it's the Vincent Cassel rabbit hole. I'm just saying, Nia, maybe pitch for the next Asterix movie. Bring him in. We could bring him in. We got these other franchises. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so funny.

[00:38:22] David, can we get into the dossier? Cause I just, I had no idea where this movie came from. And it does feel, but that's of course, it's part of the Danny Boyle magic cause I feel like he does always resist

[00:38:35] what I feel like would be the obvious path after a success or a failure. Yeah, well. You know, like, you know, right, he does resist safe choices. Yes. And I do think that's to his credit. It just doesn't always like- What did he do after this?

[00:38:49] The movie he made after this was Steve Jobs. Okay. Which I think is an incredible film. That is a safer choice in a way, although that was such a complicated cursed project that it was scary to take on. That's what you'd expect an Oscar favorite

[00:39:01] in theory to do. Yes. Okay, so Slumdog Millionaire, gigantic success, right? He can make whatever he wants. He's single-mindedly must make 127 hours. So that's what he does. After that, the first thing he does is the Frankenstein production at the National Theater, which you can watch. So good.

[00:39:21] Which of course is where he meets James McAvoy, right? It's McAvoy and John and Lee Miller switching roles every night, every other night between Frankenstein. No, Cumberbatch is in that. Oh, you're right. Yeah. It's Cumberbatch and John and Lee Miller, right? Oh, it isn't. Yeah, no, I'm sorry.

[00:39:35] I always forget James McAvoy played Frankenstein in the other Frankenstein movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. With Daniel Radcliffe. Victor Frankenstein. Victor Frankenstein. I'm sorry, I always, yes. It's Cumberbatch and John and Lee Miller. Yeah, I remember watching both versions. No James McAvoy. Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:48] John and Lee Miller's really good in that. John and Lee Miller rules. He was in both actually. Frankenstein and the Monster, which I was like, ooh, interesting. Doctor Strange, death and ditch. Boyle, one of those guys who like, Boyle is one of the only people

[00:39:59] who seems to totally understand how to use him. But have you ever watched Elementary? Speaking of Sherlock Holmes, who better Cumberbatch also played. He's also like secretly, you're like, eh, he's great at this. He's really good at it. And did like fucking 87 seasons. A zillion seasons of it.

[00:40:13] Yeah, so many. Okay, then of course, he is asked to direct the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. Yes. A masterpiece, which we will be covering on this podcast. And he said he wanted to. Oh, yes. On a Patreon. Patreon? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:29] He wanted to set trance in New York. And the only reason he didn't is because basically the Olympics was his day job. Oh, wow. He needed to be like. That's interesting. Which is, you know, that's a scary gig. Yeah. And you're following up the Jiang Yimou Olympics.

[00:40:43] We'll talk about that. Yeah. But like, you know, that's not an easy thing to take on, but he was apparently just like, you know, absolutely, I live in East London. I can't wait to do it. We'll talk about that. And he, you know,

[00:40:55] he really liked doing the Frankenstein thing. The Frankenstein thing is very cool. Mm-hmm. Is that kind of like Cumberbatch right when Sherlock is hot? Like, it's like 2010. Yeah. Like that's when Cumberbatch is kind of new and exciting. Yeah, and everyone's trying to figure out like,

[00:41:13] how far can this guy go? What can we do with him? But he, yes, I think had just started to like break out in terms of the leading man of his generation. And so he wants to take on a film project after Frankenstein is done, before the Olympics.

[00:41:28] So it is trance and he has to make it in England, as you say. And the deal also was he shot the entirety of this movie and then had the agreement. Yeah, I need to take six months off before I start post-production to finish the Olympics. Right.

[00:41:42] So the movie was filmed, kept on a hard drive, Olympics finished, six months later, he goes into the editing room. Right, because it doesn't come out till 2013. Can you imagine? Like, so I'd like to take two weeks off and pretend I didn't shoot a movie

[00:41:53] and then look at all the footage. Six months though. That seems therapeutic. Oh, it's the best. Because I think you can actually get like a week off and I'm like, oh, take it. But I genuinely can't imagine six months. Do you think it would be better?

[00:42:05] Like six months and then you come back to it and it's like, wow, I don't even remember this. Yeah, I think the best time to take a break though would be in the middle of shooting. Not for six months, Jesus. Yeah. We'll move on with our lives.

[00:42:14] But no, yeah, I think so. Because then you really get to, you just, fresh eyes. Yeah, I mean the first episode you did with us was Cast Away and you said, the reason I'm obsessed with this movie is the idea that he made another movie in between.

[00:42:26] That there's this whole break. Also, I love that movie. I mean, that movie's incredible. But yes, okay, so he's gotta find a London thing that he can shoot around his Olympics obligations. Yeah. This script had been sent to him and John Hodge

[00:42:40] and Andrew McDonald, his writer and his producer, when they made Shallow Grave. This guy, Joe Ahearn, and they liked the idea. But the Joe Ahearn was like, I wanna direct it though. And they were like, this is like a complicated script

[00:42:56] for you to be directing as your first script. But okay, and he went off and he made a TV movie of it, which exists. This movie is like, has the secret heat narrative of like there is a TV version of this with a different cast in 2001.

[00:43:12] That is like, I mean. I was searching high and low for it, could not find any way to watch it. I mean, here it is. Here's the, you know. But it's one of those things where I looked it up and like Phil Davis I know.

[00:43:23] But apart from that, I don't even really know the cast here. Like this is not a big TV movie. See, that looks like the version that you would just see on TV all the time. LA Takedown. Have you ever seen clips from LA Takedown? No, what's that?

[00:43:37] Michael Mann had written the script for Heat, wanted to make it early in his career, couldn't get it made, and then made it as a TV movie with actors who are not Robert De Niro and Al Pacino. And it's called LA Takedown? It's called LA Takedown.

[00:43:48] It aired on television. And then like 10, 15 years later, he was like, you know what? I'm ready to make this properly. And you watch, it's the same thing. It's the same script. But obviously he's got a lower budget.

[00:43:59] You know, his craft had evolved by the time he makes Heat. But also you're just watching like the coffee shop scene and going like, wow, movie stars are really, really impactful. And no disrespect to these actors who are all solid in this,

[00:44:11] but like you look at the poster for the TV movie Trance and it feels like the same thing where it's like, we can ding like a McAvoy performance, but there still is an energy he has that carries you through a movie like this.

[00:44:26] I mean, I think they all, I think the casting was really good actually for Trance. Like Danny Sapani, who I fucking love. Like all the people mentioned those other two. I could not believe there was a prior version of this

[00:44:40] and that Boyle basically comes back around to him and says, I never forgot about that script. Would you let me take a crack at it? Essentially they loved the premise and they never forgot about it. And so he gets John Hodge,

[00:44:51] who he has not worked with since the beach. And like, yeah, 13 years at that point. And says, you know, can we work on that again? He says that the movies are not that comparable. Like, if you watch the TV movie, a couple of things that are the same,

[00:45:07] but like, it's not like, you know. LA takeout. Right. Scene for scene or whatever. And they hadn't worked together. Apparently it was great to work with him. Joe Ahearn had nothing to do with the movie. He gets the credit for the story, but that's it. Okay.

[00:45:27] And he loved the idea of amnesia because you can create worlds where you're not sure whether you're seeing is real or not. And so he likes Memento. He likes Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. He likes Nicholas Rogue movies. I remember when Inception was announced,

[00:45:44] Christopher Nolan's pitch was, it is a thriller that takes place in the architecture of the mind. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? You see Inception, that is basically the correct way to describe that. Architecture is the word, yeah. But this is, it feels like,

[00:45:56] falls in that category of like, a movie in the architecture of the mind. Ah, yes. But in so much more metaphorically than a- Vague ideas of how a brain might work. Yeah. Yeah. And then as you say, he does repeat this over and over

[00:46:11] that he likes that there's a woman in the engine room is how he puts it. Mm. He wanted her to be the driving force of the film. Go ahead. I just feel, I feel, so she, so she's like, he- He has two daughters, Danny Boyle, father of daughters.

[00:46:32] Father of daughters. He also dated Rosario Dawson after this movie. Yup. Yeah, bless them. She has the most, because she went from Danny Boyle to Cory Booker, and to Eric Andre to Cory Booker, I believe, was her incredible dating history at this time.

[00:46:44] I think it was Booker and then Andre, but maybe I'm wrong about that. No, I think it was Andre then Booker. Really? I think so. Yeah, because Booker she was with until very recently. Why do we know this? This is so sad.

[00:46:52] Well, my wife at once was at a spa in Atlanta and Cory Booker and Rosario Dawson walked in. Obsessed. Are they still together? They just broke up, I think. Anyway, carry on. Oh no. So she's like, hi, I'm Rosario Dawson, I'm in the movie.

[00:47:03] And then halfway through she's like, he's sexually obsessed with me. Wait, there are a couple moments where, later in the movie she's talking about their affair. She was like, it was a highly sexual relationship. And then he got some ins and cons being like, oh. Yeah.

[00:47:18] Like, gurgle, gurgle, I'm bleeding from the mouth. Doesn't like it. And I was like, what? Like, why do you have to? Anyway, so she's like, he's sexually obsessed with me, I have to get him to want me, and then I'll have sex with him

[00:47:27] and he'll tell me what the painting is. And I was like, this logic literally makes no sense. And I guess you could say, well, she's trying to hide the fact that they had a relationship before, blah, blah. They go on the date and then he's like,

[00:47:41] I don't wanna have sex with you. And she's like, weird. And Vincent's like, why? And she's like, well, it's because of you. And then they have sex. And I'm like, what? The logic isn't logic-ing. And then she immediately goes to see homeboy,

[00:47:54] James McAvoy, and she shaves her vag. She knows what he wants. And he starts sobbing. And he literally is crying. And I'm like, has this man never seen a vagina? Crying just looking at it. I was like, this is so spiritual. And then they show them having sex.

[00:48:10] And then he's naked. You see him just sort of sitting studiously, cupping his dick and balls in his hand. Sitting on the edge of a bed. And then it turns out he was hypnotized and imagining this whole you pew thing with him shooting everyone.

[00:48:24] And Vincent Cassell's head is blown off and talking to him and all this. And I was like, this energy here actually should be in the entire film. So you like that absolute hard-to-track mania of that? If you committed to that,

[00:48:41] there is a logic you could have threaded through from the beginning. Like if the rules were more set up. I mean, that's the part in this movie where you're like, what and why? And none of this makes sense. But I feel like if you start out

[00:48:53] and this guy has issues and he doesn't know what's real and what's not real, you can actually thread. You actually like that whole thing about hating the audience. You can actually set up a universe where you're like, oh, this is what's happening and this is why.

[00:49:05] Yeah, I also love movies that take place all in someone's mind as long as that is part of the upfront setup rather than the twist at the end. When it's a rug pull, it feels like you're sort of selling out the movie.

[00:49:18] But things like Eternal Sunshine, Insomnia, whatever. Or not Insomnia, Inception. Yeah, yes. The Cell's a great example. But things like that where you're like, we're gonna be able to engage in crazy dream logic and like unbridled id and all that sort of stuff.

[00:49:34] I don't think you should have seen it when you were nine. That movie is disturbing. I watched HBO all day. I was an Alaska kid all day every day, HBO. Yeah. I will say this, Graham. Yes? Sort of speaking to the swervy aspect,

[00:49:48] or wait, this is an interesting quote from him. He says, having done Slumdog and 127 Hours, which are award season films, as well as the Olympics, we're aware of the danger that you get locked into these aspirational redemptive movies. And we have a history of another delicious

[00:50:02] kind of filmmaking, which is a bit more evil and the characters are not what they seem. So I feel like for Trance, he's off making the Olympics, which is like, the things that Britain has accomplished, socialized medicine, you know, we're all in it together.

[00:50:16] And so this is his little nasty side project. Right, this is the receptacle for him to place all of his cynicism. The movie has nothing to say, does it? Trance? Trance, tell me more. What does Trance have to say?

[00:50:29] They talk about greed, they have a little greed quote. I do think this is one of those movies where like, it's about the puzzle box. Yeah, I don't know that Trance has a lot to say about anything. If it has anything to say-

[00:50:42] Struggling to fish a theme out of it, you know? Right, right. Yeah. Right? It says stuff about art. Yeah. So stuff about pubes. It's expensive. It's very expensive. It does, it in fact tells you that directly. Oh, they do tell you that no piece of artwork

[00:50:59] is worth the life. No, no podcast is worth the life. Yeah. What a fucking, okay. I mean, that's basically the setup, right? That's the setup for how they made the film. Obviously got James McAvoy who wanted to work with Danny Boyle.

[00:51:16] As you say, screenplay didn't really grab him, but he got into the twistiness of it, I suppose. And where is he in his career? I guess he's- He's made two. Yeah, he's made one X-Men and Days of Future Past is coming out next year.

[00:51:32] He had been mired in that awful, apologies if you know the filmmaker, disappearance of Eleanor Rigby project. People forget about that one. That was a Harvey Weinstein thing, right? It was. Three. There's three. His, hers, theirs. There's his, hers, theirs. That's it, I believe.

[00:51:49] I saw, I think I may have seen two of them. Anyway, but like he's a funny guy in that like he had been kind of floating around for years. I think people forget that he's in Children of Dune, the sci-fi channel miniseries. Obviously he's Mr. Tumness.

[00:52:05] Well, that's later. Can I tell you something about that? I was watching when, I don't know, it was on TV, I was really young. My grandma, who's Jehovah's Witness, walked into the room and she saw Mr. Tumness and she goes, what are you watching?

[00:52:17] I was like, oh, it's the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And she's like, this is demonic. Which she's right, even though it is an explicitly Christian work of art. Yeah, yeah, it was very, it was hilarious. That's really funny. God bless her.

[00:52:30] I first encountered him in, he is in White Teeth, the miniseries of White Teeth, but in State of Play and then Shameless, the British Shameless. He was, it was one of those things where it was suddenly, it was like, as you were, as a British TV watcher,

[00:52:46] you're like, oh, this guy's everywhere. Like this guy is suddenly popping up everywhere. And then Last King of Scotland is the first movie I remember sort of like, I mean, Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, but Last King of Scotland's the one I remember

[00:52:57] him sort of standing out as a serious leading man. Because- That was 2006? Yeah, so in 2004, he does a movie called Inside I'm Dancing, in which he plays a paraplegic, which is one of those like, oh no, hyper committed performances. It's not great.

[00:53:15] It was called Rory O'Shea Was Here in America. Oh yes, I remember that. Rambo carries it. Yes. And then the next year he did Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And even though he played a magical faun, I think that he succeeded because everyone came out

[00:53:28] of that movie being like, Mr. Tumnus is pretty hot. Yeah. Kind of horny for Tumnus? Yeah. Like they came out of that children's film about children fighting a witch being like, but those first 20 minutes with the faun, I was kind of feeling the faun.

[00:53:42] He is like pretty fucking captivating. He's really charming in it. And then Last King of Scotland, obviously he's like the off ball guy, you know, like, you know, that's Forrest Whitaker doing everything, but he is good. And that's one of those examples of like,

[00:53:55] he is the lead of that movie. Like Forrest Whitaker's performance is so huge that it basically got willed into him winning a best lead actor Oscar. But like McAvoy has four times the screen time that Whitaker does and got a little bit ignored.

[00:54:10] Which I think it was tactical personally because I feel like that was like in the midst of people being like, why is every movie that's about a black person or a significant black character have to be told through the eyes of a white person.

[00:54:23] And I would have gladly been like, it's all Forrest, bye. It's a Yeoman's work performance because he knows he's going to get steamrolled by the guy playing the most interesting character in the world. Yeah. Harry Washington popped in that movie too. Yeah, yeah. Yes, that's right.

[00:54:40] And then he has, he does a few like little British movies. He did Starter for 10. He did Becoming Jane. Starter for 10, good. Starter for 10, a great book and solid movie. Yeah. And University Challenge. It's about University Challenge, my favorite TV show.

[00:54:54] And then of course Atonement, which he's incredible in. Right. And that's a movie that's like stacked with good performances. And it's this like very, you know, complex three storyline film. And was presented as like, this is going to be the Oscar juggernaut. Like Joe Wright is ready.

[00:55:09] This is going to be the English patient or some shit. And it does get, you know, plenty of Oscar nominations. It wasn't quite the juggernaut they wanted it to be. No, and I don't think it totally made him in the way people thought this is going to elevate.

[00:55:21] This is going to be his Ray Fiennes moment. But his sex scene with Keira Knightley in that movie is like. Iconic. So iconic and hot. Iconic. And I feel like even more so now that we don't get enough sex scenes in movies.

[00:55:31] Like people go back to that one being like, God damn. Yeah. That's also Benedict's little pop-off movie too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Juno Temple. Yeah, watch out. Saoirse, so many people pop in that. Yeah. And then the next year he had Wanted.

[00:55:45] Vanessa Redgrave, I think that was like her first big movie. Was she in that one? Yeah, the last one. Wanted, big, big hit. Right. Out of no to somewhat surprising hit. But let's say a little similar to the Last King of Scotland thing where it's like.

[00:55:58] He's the lead. He is the lead, but Joe Lee is the one who everyone is interested in. Well, he has a, he has a, his energy is a little sub in a way. It's a little? He's like screaming and crying and sweating that whole.

[00:56:11] What are you doing to me? Like dragging him around. Yeah, like Chris Pratt is the fucking guy who fucks his girlfriend in that movie. And this is before his glow up. So it's very interesting. Chubby Pratt. I don't know. That's not what I meant. But I know.

[00:56:25] As a chubby guy, I miss Chubby Pratt. Yeah, he took stuff less seriously. I do think there's something to, McAvoy often takes these roles where someone else is allowed to steal the movie from him. Like Split, you're like, why is it taking this long

[00:56:39] for you to feel comfortable doing like the main dance? I think Split is his movie. That's the one where you were like, yes. And I actually felt like, I was like, I'm not your back, you know? Split is the movie, as you say Griff,

[00:56:52] where you're like, okay, he finally got handed like. You get to play the color. Exactly. Versus you just sort of doing the plot for him. And as you say Nia, where he's like, yeah, I get the tone here. I'm gonna fill it.

[00:57:04] Like, you know, I'm gonna go for it. I feel like part of what you're talking about Griff is probably that Wanted is getting passed around and bigger stars than him are like, well, I don't wanna play this guy. Right. Because this guy's fucking crying the whole time.

[00:57:17] And McAvoy is like, well, you know, I'll take a shot. Right, and we got two humongous stars playing the supporting roles. We don't need a money person in the lead role. We just need a solid actor. But he's still like, he'll do Atomic Blonde.

[00:57:28] He'll do movies where like, you're kind of the second lead. You're kind of, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, he will do that still. The X-Men thing is so interesting to me too because I think he's really good in first class where the whole thing is,

[00:57:41] oh, he's sort of this like cad and this leech. And it's like, this is so different than the Patrick Stewart Professor X. There's nothing stately about this guy. It's surprising. He's got fun energy in it. And then as the movies go on,

[00:57:54] they're like, can you just sort of like do a Patrick Stewart impression? We're gonna shave your head. But he starts out like, he's the fun, the fun, funny one. Does he get shot in the spine in the first movie? First movie.

[00:58:05] Yes, and then they do this bit where it's like, he can use his brain to walk again, but if he does it, then he can't. His powers don't apply in other places. I just disagree with that fully. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. Right, so the second movie,

[00:58:17] he's like walking around a bunch, but then he can't read people's minds. And they're like, you have to make a choice. It's either the chair. Or your powers. Yeah. Also, okay, let's think about that logically though. If he can use his mind to walk again,

[00:58:27] that means he's lifting himself up with his mind. Yes. Which means that when he's walking, his feet, he's not using any muscle. No, he's puppeteering. His legs would be, he'd have weird jigsaw-y legs. Professor X is not a telekinetic mutant. He's a telepath for crying out loud.

[00:58:42] No, no, it's fine. I'm so sorry. It's fine. I'm saying that's why it never made sense. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. You're right. Rosaria Dawson got this role. Scarlett Johansson was supposedly considered. That feels like something she would like eventually just say no to, right?

[00:58:59] Feels like a hatch point read thread. Zoe Saldana, who I feel like is probably pretty like, well, no, she's pretty established. This is post-Avatar, yeah. Is this a Columbiana year? Is this the year Columbiana came out? Columbiana underrated. I would agree. 2011 is Columbiana. Okay. Boyle.

[00:59:16] We get to do full frontal nudity and Shave Your Vag. That's a lot to ask for. Right, because the way this film is made and Danny Boyle as a director, I don't see there being any workarounds of just like,

[00:59:29] if you're doing this, you have to do this in closeup. Yes. It's so funny because in one way you're like, this comes out of nowhere and is insane. But in another way, you're like, I guess you would have to in the first meeting with the actress be like,

[00:59:42] so your shave vagina is a pivotal point. He had auditioned Rosario for a different movie. He doesn't say what, so he knew her. So he really liked her. Sunshine maybe? Maybe, that makes sense. What else she could have fit into even? Sunshine makes sense. Right.

[00:59:59] Maybe the best, well, but she's been around forever. She was in Kids, which I've never watched. I can't do it. I tried to watch the first scene and I was like, no. Kids is rough. I can't. Nia, we're New York City kids. We lived it.

[01:00:10] We don't need to watch it. I know, exactly my point. Thank you. Yeah. He decides that it's fine that there's an American in the middle of the movie. Yeah. She's different. She talks differently. He's just kind of like, I don't know, that works. Which is good.

[01:00:23] I like what he does. Very refreshing. I love any time a movie has a character with an accent different than the place the movie's set and it doesn't explain it at all. Because anytime there's a scene where it's like, well, and then I relocated here

[01:00:33] because I'm like, you don't need to tell me. The world is a big globalization. We have different accents all the time. Especially in London, Jesus. We don't go, what's your fucking backstory? And as he says here, as I was just saying,

[01:00:45] I'm correct, you know, when we met people and talked to people for the part, we were very clear that it was non-negotiable, the nudity, it's the biggest plot point of the movie. So he said, I don't know. I just love that he was like,

[01:00:58] I need to show that I respect women, that I think they're fully well-rounded people. They gotta be the engine of this movie. And the movie I'm gonna do that in, she has to show her bare puss. Several times. Non-negotiable bitch.

[01:01:11] And then she has to, sex has to be central to what drives the, you know. I mean, I'm not anti it, but I think it's a funny place to get to. I do too. I'm also not anti it and I think it's fine

[01:01:25] and like you say, I miss the erotic thriller, but it is just fine. Her character is so bizarre. I like Rosario a lot. We were just talking about, I mean, we'll have come out by now, but we were doing the Men in Black movies on Patreon.

[01:01:38] So we were talking about Men in Black 2, a very thankless role, but a role that I think was kind of positioned as like, holy shit, she's gonna be the female lead in the Men in Black sequel. This is gonna like blow her up.

[01:01:49] And we were saying like, for having a really good career, she doesn't really have like her defining parts. She feels like someone who everyone always respects, but she's maybe never gotten the thing that feels like the perfect fit for her. But I- Daredevil, seasons one through-

[01:02:04] This is the thing, I think she's incredibly good in Daredevil. Yeah, she's great. She's kind of like the best performance in any of those Marvel Netflix shows. She's really good at it. But like, I think that is, she has this very grounded, sensitive quality

[01:02:17] in a show like that. You're like, she brings this down to earth. She makes it feel real and tangible. It's kind of odd to cast her as like a film noir siren, because that is so different than her vibe, I think, despite her obviously being very like sexy.

[01:02:33] But I think that was the thing that they needed for that role. Right, they needed her to be initially warm and sort of like, I'm here to help. Girl, therapy session. She's really good, yes. Yes, you actually have to. What I think really was amazing in this film,

[01:02:48] when her boobs come out, I was like, they are huge. And you don't notice that until that moment. And I'm like, that is brilliant. That's range. The way they've styled her to be like, kind of non-textbooking in a way. I mean, she's absolutely stunning anyway,

[01:03:04] but I think the way that they very consciously were like, because even after that moment, they don't make her sexier, you know? Like she's always, I mean, her hair is down now, whatever. But like, she's always presented as like a professional. Exactly, and there's never any like,

[01:03:16] ooh, my bra's jacked up. There's no femtown. Right. Yeah, so. She's really good in the therapy scenes. I mean, that's like her energy that she's so good at, where she just has like a sort of like warmth and knowability and control. Quiet control.

[01:03:30] Yeah, and you just feel like, yeah, of course this person is like a skilled hypnotist. Yeah, which is very crucial to this movie. You need to kind of immediately just be like, hypnotism works fine and she's great at it. When you get to the later flashbacks,

[01:03:40] and it's basically only in a montage, her and McAvoy do have really good chemistry when they're playing the clips, the brief and yets of. They do, I mean, he's kind of annoying, but in his way, in his cute way. Do you know which painting I'm talking about?

[01:03:54] I would just be like, shut the fuck up. I can learn about this later, you asshole. Why are you ranting to me about pubes? And then they're pubes. I was like, what? Sure, fine. I mean, that's when you, if you're dating a man

[01:04:06] and he says, listen, it's so much better because it's filthy. He basically is like, it's dirty and filthy. Do you have pubes, James McAvoy? Do you? Yeah. Because you better get rid of yours this way, you want her to do. You better walk the walk here. Absolutely ridiculous.

[01:04:20] If a man does that, you run immediately. I agree with that. And so that's why, if he cries when he sees her. I don't want to yuck anyone's gums, but yes. It's also just like, you know. Well, no, I just think it's interesting

[01:04:29] to discuss this as an art movement. Do you want me to shave or not? Exactly! If that's what you're into, just tell me. We can have this conversation. It is so weird that his perspective is like, you know what was really good was the art

[01:04:41] where everyone just looked like a statue. I could not squint at the circle on this. And then Goya fucked it up with pubes, what an asshole. He's like, it's a reminder that we're human. I like the unnatural heightened quality. Right, which I guess I understand

[01:04:54] that his character is unlikable. I get that. But I'm like, why is Rosario Dawson continuing to put up with this? Yeah, it's so weird. But also, why is that in the movie? What significance does that actually have? It has no metaphorical significance.

[01:05:08] Even his explanation doesn't make any sense. You're like, okay. I would agree with everything you just said, but the answer is, the answer is there's nothing. This movie isn't really about anything anyway, so I guess something has to be removed.

[01:05:19] When you have the full push shot, the first, right? There's a big pan down. She's walking down the hallway. It's this like, she's incredibly glamorous. And everything about that scene's so weird that you're like, I guess this is just one of those movies

[01:05:33] that has an incredibly bizarre sex scene. And then the more they go back to it and you're like, this is a central plot point. This is kind of the key to the whole thing. It's gonna keep on being discussed and shown. It's wild because yes,

[01:05:46] it doesn't tie into anything larger thematically. They just choose that that is, it's like a totem. It's the totem. It's the loaded dime. But this is what I love about Rosario Dawson. The amount of dignity she gives this character. And this is why she's unfuckwithable.

[01:06:02] Because you think about, because she's had other sex scenes, like in Alexander, which was insane because they're fighting each other. I've done a perfect example of one of the most bizarre. She's a feral animal and he has to tame her. He got game. But Rosario's that bitch.

[01:06:17] She's just like, you can't make me. It feels, even though another director, another actor, that could feel, I mean it's ridiculous, but it doesn't feel exploitative. It just feels bizarre. Very substantive about her. I think if this movie took place in New York, it would actually feel weirder.

[01:06:36] Because it's a Euro movie, you do kind of have that kind of like, eh, this is Europe, baby. Everyone's fucking weird there. Let me give you the Danny Boyle quote on this nudity. You used to see this kind of nudity all the time, certainly in European movies.

[01:06:47] I'm gonna push back immediately. You see this kind of nudity? The female form. I agree with that. If he said you used to see nudity all the time, this kind is an absurd statement. The film world, I'm gonna continue the quote, has supposedly become a lot more prurient

[01:07:05] about explicit nudity because porn is everywhere and movies want to separate themselves from porn. That's the official line of the movie industry. So films have basically stopped using sex as an engine for stories. If you stop and think about it,

[01:07:16] you realize sex is rarely present in any mainstream films. Wait, is sex the engine or is she the engine? It's two engines, okay? She's the engine and sex is the noz, but. Oh, got it. Ooh, I mean that's actually accurate because after that happens, it just went, woof.

[01:07:33] I'm a great film critic. That's the kind of insight I provide. Scenes like the one in Don't Look Now, he's in the famous sex scene between Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland, they wouldn't happen anymore. I'm not talking about specialist art hop movies that cater to a small audience.

[01:07:46] Outside of that, sex has become a big taboo again. Before it was for moralistic reasons. Now it's put clear water between it and the porn industry. It's, I've never heard anyone express that specific thought that like, that porn has become so mainstream

[01:08:00] that movies want to stay away from porn. I don't know that that's the answer. I don't either. But it's not an uninteresting concept. Yeah, okay, so that was a quote from 10 years ago and let me check my notes now. Every day someone new goes viral on Twitter

[01:08:13] for saying, if you watch sex scenes, you should be arrested. Couples in movies should be married in real life. Yes. Wait, what? Dude, it's not important, but all the time on Twitter, like teenagers are like, it's insane that anyone has sex on screen.

[01:08:25] Like how exploitative and you know, like there's this weird like- That's so funny because a number of actors I talked to who are, and you know, a number of them women talking about how like, the erotic thriller space. A number of people I talked to in Hollywood

[01:08:36] who were like, yeah, we kind of gotta like, and it's not like a lurid thing. It's literally like, sex is a huge part of our psychology and our lives. It's just not in movies anymore. Have you seen Magic Mike's Last Dance yet?

[01:08:47] I have a ticket for tomorrow 3 p.m. Alamo Draft House. Okay, amazing. This will come out after- Yes, it will have been out for a couple weeks. This film is not coming out before 3 p.m. tomorrow. Yes. Got some editing to do, Ben.

[01:08:59] I saw Alamo Draft House, they did a rowdy screening. Did you go to that one? Oh yes. Did you get accosted? I didn't get accosted. I did text Dave and said- Did you have to give a lap dance? I did text Dave and said,

[01:09:08] I think I'm the only straight man here. I feel pretty confident in that assessment. They gave out dollar bills to throw at the screen. But- Really? Yep, yep. Oh that's fun. Not really, Alamo bucks. Oh, Alamo bucks. They had abs on them. Alamo bucks, sure.

[01:09:23] Where a president would be. Let's take a picture of abs. We should do that actually. We should put abs on our dollar bill. Yeah, we should. Or at least like our shirtless, you know, whatever. It should be, waste up photos of the president shirtless and yoke.

[01:09:34] But the woman who worked at the Alamo came out before the screening and was like, look, it's a rowdy screening. So obviously we're not gonna kick people out if we talk, but be respectful, this and that. And then she offered this, I think,

[01:09:46] unnecessary qualifier where she was like, and it's not maybe a movie where you're gonna be yelling the whole time. It's a bit of a slow burn. Like you'll get there with the dance sequences, but the movie takes its time. Five minutes into Magic Mike's Last Dance is possibly,

[01:09:59] and maybe I'm being hyperbolic because I just saw this film. It's a very sexy scene. It's one of the sexiest things I have ever seen in a movie. Yes, I can't wait. Five minutes in and you just felt the entire audience buzzing of like,

[01:10:10] fuck, we never see this anymore. There's no nudity. It is not- No, but it's very, very intimate. Ostensibly a sex scene, but it is- It's like the tooth shaving scene in Handmaid's Tale? A little bit. It's more overt than that. Whoa, okay, Jesus.

[01:10:23] But it is like you watch it. It's a dance sequence that is the sexiest thing you've ever seen. I love this. I can't wait. And there's something about the energy of watching that in a crowd of other people rather than watching it huddled over a laptop

[01:10:38] being like, well, I can watch this because my parents aren't here. This is fine. I have some more quotes that are actually really funny. Okay, one Boyle's quote about, if we're looking for themes here, it contains within it the idea of violent control

[01:10:55] that Simon James McAvoy has as an instinct. He wants to shape her in his image. What's interesting for me is how she uses the power of his fantasy. David, you misread that. Shave her in his image. But I guess that's why we see

[01:11:12] the asshole scene of him being like, I just like it when, you know, and she's retained that and known that will hypnotize him. And that's feeding into a sort of misogynistic idea of control. Oh my God, I'm like, right? I guess there's something there.

[01:11:30] No, I don't know if this was a misread on my part, but obviously the movie at the end is throwing a lot of shit out at you. I also felt like to some degree in that final swath in which she's kind of claiming

[01:11:44] the narrative and the whole movies from her, right? That it feels like part of this for her was this whole long con she was running was also this experiment of like, can I hypnotize him into only being the parts of him I liked, right?

[01:12:01] These conflicts you hear about like people who are caught in abusive relationships, physically abusive relationships, where they're like, but you don't understand he wasn't like that all the time. There was a version of him that was really great, right? And when we're seeing those flashbacks

[01:12:14] to the early parts of their relationship where you're like, oh, they do have real chemistry in these scenes. Yeah, and it's not like the weird stilted noir chemistry that they have in their early scenes within the running time. You're like chronologically the earliest scenes

[01:12:28] you see the thing there, they are charming back and forth with each other on dates and then he becomes incredibly scary. And part of this thing for her is like, can I shape him in my image? Is there a way to like psychologically

[01:12:39] get all the bad things out of him? And that's sort of as much as this movie is about anything, it's maybe about like how much can you actually control who you are, who other people are. That is interesting.

[01:12:51] And again, like good for a trashy kind of like movie about control. Like I get, I'm sorry, these quotes are just too good. Please. One, Rosario Dawson, I don't know if you guys know this, I was unaware, refers to her vagina as the general. I have heard this.

[01:13:04] I'm so happy for her. I am too. That's a good bit. I'm not sure if it's after the Buster Keaton film. No, I think it's because her vagina hangs out with Shaq a lot. Waxing hurts. I wasn't thrilled about that. The general. See what I mean?

[01:13:17] It should have been a waxing scene. It should have been. The general was angry with me for a little while. She was gnarly. She was mad. I don't know. I can't think of it. I'm gonna get myself in trouble. Got the winter dew going on now. I'm happy.

[01:13:32] Great quote from Rosario Dawson. Winter dew. Here's McAvoy coming in on pubes. I'm sorry. I just gotta give you this pubes. Give me the pubes. McAvoy. I think a lot of men shave their, key word there, I think a lot of men shave their balls and their shaft,

[01:13:47] but that's just for pornos, which are still technically movies. With Simon, a woman shaving is what he prefers. It's part of his fantasy. The reason he likes it is a little deeper than what my most guys apparently like it. He has a classical artistically related aesthetic.

[01:14:01] Oh, I don't know if most guys do like it. By the way, I think people in porn films seem to like it. I don't know if it's necessarily what people want. James McAvoy seems to be having a nervous breakdown. Maybe people in porn films,

[01:14:12] like, I mean, I don't know. I was gonna say, JJ, our researcher, prepares these dossiers weeks, sometimes even months in advance of the episode. Also totally shaved. JJ, hairless. Naked mole rap. Yeah, he's Neo in the Matrix when he wakes up. Yeah, he just fucking cuts through water.

[01:14:35] No resistance. So he was doing this research months ago, right? And I feel like two full months ago, JJ texts us out of nowhere and he's like, guys, look, I know the trans episode is 10 away. I just have to send you this right now

[01:14:51] and sends us the general quotes. He just had the energy of like, I can't not have someone process this in real time with me. I love it. The general. What I love is that James is clearly grasping for some sense without showing his own preferences. Right.

[01:15:09] Yeah, why can't he just say like, me, I like a bush. Now this freak I'm playing, like, I guess he wants to fuck a Greek statue. I don't know what to tell him. Oh man. Also just like the characterization of like,

[01:15:21] well, he likes shape, but it's pretty deep actually. It's pretty intellectual. Deeper than other guys, why they like it. Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't. In porn they seem to, but there's a movie on it. I've seen so much porn. I mean, I watch porn.

[01:15:33] My character likes Bukkake, but only because it reminds me of Jackson Pollock. It's actually a pretty deep like heady thing. Apparently this is a Boyle quote. Fassbender indeed was in talks for the Vincent Cassel role, but then apparently insisted that he wanted to play the Rosario Dawson role.

[01:15:49] Truly? Truly. That's what Danny Boyle says. After James' cast? Yes, I believe so. I don't, okay, let me know. Interesting. Okay. I feel like him explaining James McAvoy hitting him will have a very different energy than Rosario. Yes, I think it would have had to be.

[01:16:12] I think it's also, and it's just like from a fit looking, obviously abuse comes in all shapes and forms and from anyone and to anyone, but. No, go ahead. Michael Fassbender could be the shit out of James McAvoy. Michael Fassbender is a big strong man

[01:16:28] and James McAvoy is a little more trippy. And just menacing and less is hard. And I just feel so scared for everyone involved. Yes. Wow. That's wild. What year was this, 2013? They would have shot 2012. Yeah. Or finish it, or 2011 maybe.

[01:16:46] And he was doing, Fish Tank came out when, 2009, 2010. Fish Tank. And he also would have had one of these under his belt. It's 2009, he'd done an X-Men. He'd probably done. Shane. Obviously he'd done Glorious Bastards and stuff,

[01:17:00] but I feel like he was doing a lot of stuff fast, fast. Do you think he and James, because if you look at their decision making at that stage, they kind of pop at the same time. Yes. Like Jane Eyre and Centurion. And James was like, boop. Yeah.

[01:17:14] And is it because. But then Fassbender kind of vanished. Yeah, I mean, well, he had some stuff. When they got announced in X-Men, it was like, oh, they're fucking calling it. These are the two guys. Right. You know, this is like the generation.

[01:17:23] But Prometheus is the other thing he did. They tried to hypnotize all the cast. They had a hypnotherapist come. Who was susceptible? McAvoy and Casale, both say it didn't really work for them, sadly. Boyle refused. He was like, I'm a control freak. I don't want to do that.

[01:17:40] But Dawson enjoyed it and said that it took her on a journey of self-discovery. She talked to her absent father. She did a session with a psychic. I think Rosario Dawson's maybe a little more open as a person, spiritually, to all kinds of experiences.

[01:18:00] And so that's, you know, that's interesting. They shot it in East London, the movie, just FYI. Where the Olympics are happening, basically. This movie has this like Docklands aesthetic, which I like. Like England's Docklands, London's Docklands are this weird like sort of post-industrial,

[01:18:14] you know, glass and metal and like kind of feels fake. And like, I feel like it works in the movie. I like the way this movie looks. I love the way the movie looks. I like the way it's shot too. That's the thing I love about Danny Boyle

[01:18:25] that I really appreciate about this movie. It's like, he'll do shots and you're like, why, what is, how did you think of that? It's Anthony D'Amanto again, right? It's who he did Slumdoggin 127 Hours and you know, 20 Days Later with. But he does like, I think, challenge himself

[01:18:40] to think of interesting ways to shoot things. I mean, 127 Hours is the peak of that where it's like, oh, I'm challenging myself to specifically make a movie that takes place in a crevice and keep it cinematic. But there is that thing where it's like,

[01:18:54] it does feel like he's allergic to just sort of standard coverage. And even if I don't totally understand the intended effect of a shot, I can tell there's thought. They obviously, they're shooting this on digital because Boyle's always been very like,

[01:19:09] digital is the future, man, I'm doing it. This is Dodd-Mantle, right? It's Dodd-Mantle and as you might have noticed, the movie's lots of mirrors, lots of reflective surfaces, glass, lots of double, triple images. But there's no thematic symbolism there. Exactly. Our brains refracted, right? Oh man. You know?

[01:19:28] Can we even talk through the plot of this movie? I don't know. I kind of need you to because I'm gonna be honest, I could not watch this movie. Wait, what do you mean? You didn't watch it? Your eyes just slipped off the screen?

[01:19:41] I truly, my phone just kept going to my eyes. I just couldn't pay attention to this movie. Do you wanna hear chronologically or in the order of the film? What happened? Ben. Here's one. Which would you rather? What's gonna be the least convoluted? Chronologically. Chronologically. Let's do that.

[01:20:01] Okay, so there's this guy, his name's James McAvoy or something. Let's call him James McAvoy. He's James McAvoy and he's a gambling addict and so he goes to hypnotist. Which he also doesn't seem like a degenerate. Like McAvoy doesn't read as a degenerate.

[01:20:11] You can tell he's a gambling addict because he's going all in. Yeah. I love how that's how you know. He's also very sweaty in the entire film. I just had a gambling problem, all in. And it's like, all right, we get it, he was all in.

[01:20:22] And I love that they have one little bit of him playing poker on his computer and I was like, okay. I thought he was just playing a game. And then of course turns out he's a gambling addict. He's a gambling addict. He's in debt.

[01:20:32] He's like, what am I gonna do? I need to stop this. And so he goes to hypnotist and then they fall in love and she has a very unethical, inappropriate relationship with her client. He becomes abusive and so she starts to hypnotize him

[01:20:42] to forget her because he just can't leave her alone. And then she's pissed. She wants revenge. Their sessions are ongoing. Yes. Which they add at the end, which is hilarious. Even though they are romantically involved. And he's abusing her. Even though he has hit her

[01:20:57] in the course of their relationship, the sessions are still happening. And only then she's like, so I started to mess with the session so he would forget. That is the most surprising choice in the movie almost is that when she's like,

[01:21:09] so then I had to train him to forget me and it's not like she's hypnotizing him in their bedroom. He's in the office of her practice. That's why in the monologue, they add that at the end. She says this whole thing and then she's like,

[01:21:22] we were still doing the session because you insisted. And I was like, okay, you can say that earlier because then I'd be too busy thinking about how that doesn't make any sense. But anyway, so she trains him or she hypnotizes him to forget him.

[01:21:31] But then she's pissed, she wants revenge. So she's like, you're gonna steal me a painting. I don't know why that needed to happen in any way, shape or form, what that would get her. I'm not really sure, but that's her plan.

[01:21:41] I mean, you get a masterwork in your apartment. That's pretty special. Oh, she wanted something to show for the relationship, I guess, or something? Yeah, but it does. I mean, the implication at the end is that she was originally wanting the painting for the money

[01:21:57] and now she attaches too much emotional value to it and doesn't plan on selling it. Listen, Griffin, it's about the journey. It's about the journey. Okay, thank you. It's about the journey, okay. And then she's supposed to find out where it is,

[01:22:11] but then he gets hit in the head by Vincent Cassell and that fucks up everything. And so from that point on, she's also like kind of asked out like everyone else. And so she goes and she tries to get it out of his head.

[01:22:23] He has to have sex with several people for this to happen and shave her badge. And then he remembers everything, tries to kill her and Vincent Cassell. Vincent Cassell does not blow up even though he's in a very hot car.

[01:22:36] And he does, yeah, he survives, which is what happened. Wait, can I tell you my favorite moment of the movie? Where he's in the water and she goes, are you okay? And he goes, no. I was like, that's the most honest beat of this entire film.

[01:22:48] Some other crazy plot points, because this movie has a lot of things going on. So it's not Vincent Cassell, it's the other guy who, the drug dealer is how McAvoy gets linked to Cassell. Basically says he realizes he wants to pull this heist. He doesn't know any criminals,

[01:23:07] but he knows a drug dealer who then refers him to his unsavory French friend with animalistic sexual energy. And- I mean, that's all he's got, Vincent. Right, and that McAvoy's trance is successful until the point where, because it's an inside job,

[01:23:24] McAvoy has to play act trying to stop Cassell. But McAvoy gets overzealous, zaps Cassell- He sees Cassell about to open the thing. Oh, right. That they remove at the end, yeah. Where you probably were tired and were like, what's on the delivery?

[01:23:39] There are a lot of things to cover. I've only tranced once at this point. But he zaps him, so then Cassell knocks him out. And then that unlodges the thing in his brain, the cage that was keeping the memories. So then when he walks out, he's so enraged.

[01:23:54] He gets the text from Rosario Dawson saying, bring it to me now. But he's becoming unhinged and he's remembering her. And then a woman hits him with a car, tries to help him. The great Tuppets Middleton. The great Tuppets Middleton. Who I love.

[01:24:06] He is then convinced that she is Rosario Dawson. And now he's so fucking angry because he remembered that she got angry at him for being an asshole and an abuser that he strangles Tuppets Middleton to death. In the middle of the street, in the middle of the day,

[01:24:20] and no one notices. Just drives her car with her dead body next to him into a parking lot and then shoves her in the trunk along with the rolled up painting. When they open that trunk. That is nasty. Who rented this image?

[01:24:34] Pretty good makeup effects in this film when needed. She's gotten Beetlejuiced. I mean, she juicy. She juicy. There's no doubt about that. So this movie presents it to us that when McAvoy wakes up, they're like, he has amnesia. He genuinely doesn't remember where this thing is.

[01:24:52] And Cassell's like, we need to get the information out of him without obviously alerting the police what we're trying to find. And we can't kill him. So we have to hire a hypnotherapist to somehow unlock this in him. And he lets him choose one, which doesn't make sense.

[01:25:05] Cassell goes, why did you choose her? He goes, I don't know. Which we later find out it's like the eternal sunshine. Somehow he's just drawn to her. Even though the memory is suppressed. What's her last name again? She has a kind of a good last name. Lamb.

[01:25:16] I think it's Lamb. Dr. Lamb. Right. Slow horse is good. But then within the film, we find out that she went to Cassell because she then makes McAvoy think, I want in, I can tell you're in danger. I should be cut in on this.

[01:25:30] Instead, you find out that she went to Cassell and was like, here's what you're going to do. Send him to me. Wait, I missed that. He has to think that I'm holding. She says this thing about like, he needs to think that I've genuinely seized power.

[01:25:43] He can't think that he's cutting me in. He has to think that I have you guys under my boot. Which we can do if you tap a wire to him. And then I- Wait, when does that happen? I totally missed that.

[01:25:54] He's got a wire tape to his chest and she comes in with a flash card. Oh no, no, no. We know that. I don't remember the part where she was like, Vincent, this is what you have to do. There's the part where you see her

[01:26:03] because she reads in the newspaper about the robbery and he's like the hero guard. I don't rewatch this whole movie, though. Then there's a scene, there's a flashback to her taking Vincent Cassell out to dinner and she's like, I'm going to act like I'm taking control of this.

[01:26:17] She took him out to dinner? Wow, I've been hypnotized by the film. I'm trying to remember this too. I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. This is a real movie where you have to like, gesture with two hands like this. Kind of like-

[01:26:29] You have to explain it physically. Yeah. But they are definitely doing a thing where she's like, if we can trigger his jealousy, by, you know, McAvoy's jealousy, that will put him under my control. But it's this, where did you put this thing?

[01:26:43] And then the hammer blows in his shaped pussy. What? Right, well of course. The where did you put this thing, which they mask as like your keys, so it keeps on coming back to the car, which they're using as like a substitute object

[01:26:55] because obviously they don't want to say stolen painting. But then you realize, oh, it's because he's also suppressed the memory of where he put the dead body. Yeah. It would have been funny if they just went with Goya instead of, but then he went and got beans

[01:27:09] like out of a cupboard or something. Yes. Right. That would have been a funny joke moment. Right. What's that? Would that have been good? Are we sure? Yeah, that was my question. But you listen, I feel like we all have our gifts.

[01:27:20] He can't unlock where the painting is because the painting is tied to the suppressed trauma of the crime he committed. Now you're reading into things in a very special way because I don't even know if the movie went that far. They're both in the same trunk

[01:27:33] and he keeps on talking about the red car and the car keys. Okay, I feel you. But see, this is what's funny. It's like that could have been tracked. I mean, all of it's crazy, but that could have been tracked also better

[01:27:43] like where it's like, oh, I'm suppressing a violent act. Not so much that I think I've killed my lover. I read it more as whatever remnants of her previous hypnotism that worked for him to try to suppress the violent parts of him

[01:28:02] has already sort of by force forgotten the crime he committed. And because the painting and the dead body are in the same trunk, that's why he can't unlock it. Because they keep on going like, what is the thing holding him back? Is it that he's worried?

[01:28:16] So you're saying she's also not really sure what the fuck's going on? That was my read. Because it's like her following him to the car at the end with Cassell despite knowing he's a homicidal maniac and all this shit. It's like, why would she put herself in danger?

[01:28:28] And the answer is because it's like, there's no other way to crack this. She keeps on saying like, he can't remember because he's worried that you're gonna kill him after you get the painting. So there's a part of himself protecting himself.

[01:28:42] And I read it as like, the final piece missing is that like the trauma and the shame is linked to painting because it's all in the same vehicle. I don't know. I mean, it's like one of these things where it's like,

[01:28:55] I don't know if I'm reading too much into it or I'm missing 15 things. I think it's fine to read that into it, especially since they make the art so prominent. The painting being stolen is the Goya painting which is in the air, which is really cool.

[01:29:09] But it's of this like blind man walking beneath these like witches who are flying in the air. And I guess there's some sort of like thematic man being led by women under their spell kind of thing going on there. What room was she in at the end?

[01:29:26] She's in a yellow room now. I don't know. She sends an iPad video to Vincent Cassell being like- She sends an entire iPad that is rigged with a video. An entire iPad, it's got two- She's like Batman or something. It's got two things, video and trance.

[01:29:40] Those are your two options. It's got a video and an- Also she goes, and boop here. Yes. And then touches, I guess the screen. Like the icons don't appear over the video. Well, you know what? It's amazing. Listen, she's a tech guy.

[01:29:51] But it's like Mirage from the Incredibles where it's like- She actually programmed the iPad while she was shaving her vagina. In that one scene. Yeah, yeah, she did it all at the same time. One handed. See, here's another thing. I'm still caught up on this

[01:30:05] that she used an electric razor, you just, but she waxed in real life. I'm like, at the very least, you should hear the water turn on and go. I know. What's funny is that when you hear, when you hear brrr, you're like, I get it.

[01:30:18] He can't show me the vagina on screen. So you have to have a sound effect that allows us to fill in our minds. And then he shows it and you're just like, well then you could have just had running tap water.

[01:30:26] You could have a tap water with a few, the sound of the Bic, the Venus against the sun. Maybe run some of this stuff by women next time when you're writing your script or doing your post. Anyway, look. What if it's a hot foam machine?

[01:30:40] Because those might make a noise. Yeah, you know, like a warm foam device. What is that? It makes warm foam? Yeah. You guys are all looking at me like it's crazy. But it's truly like- You mean rather than like a classic shaving cream? Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[01:30:58] We don't put hot lather in other regions to shave. How do you shave? What is your face like? Do you go to like a 90's Barber? I love this. Do you do a, you know- I just do it with an electric razor. Right. Everyone's lazy.

[01:31:12] But I know that this device exists. Can we look up who's sponsoring this episode? Because if it isn't manscaped, we should get the man on it. We should actually try to reorganize the order. And I can't wait to send that email

[01:31:22] because right now it's only Indeed, the job hiring. Okay, yeah, let's send them and say like, we really think manscaped would get a huge bump from this episode. No, she should go hold on one second. We back in a moment.

[01:31:34] She closes the door and then you just hear her go, ew, ouch, ouch, ouch. Or she uses Nairn, she says chemical burns afterwards. Yeah, and then she walks out and she's sort of like, ugh, ugh, ugh. Yeah. Her whole middle is wet. Right.

[01:31:49] She sends this video to Vincent Cassell being like- She's got the ripped up like a toilet paper. Right, all right, all right. She sends a video and she's basically like, nice painting, right? Have it hanging on my wall now. You can come find me if you want.

[01:32:04] I thought I would find this traumatic. I hope, no, I hope you do. Yeah. Or you can forget everything. But I also don't, I don't, I won't judge you if you won't forget that you ever knew me. But I may be in love with you.

[01:32:14] If so, press trans button. Right. I've chosen to not sell this painting for $100 million because it reminds me of you. And I guess I'm just corny that way. Sure. So I don't know. If you want to meet me, you know where I am. In the yellow room.

[01:32:26] If not, hit the button and we'll wipe your brain to factory reset. I just, I felt so confused. Meanwhile, McAvoy dead. Dead. Yeah, in the waters. Water. Waters of England, yeah. The waters of England. Yeah, I was like, he just- Those English waters.

[01:32:40] She trucks him into the water. Yeah, into the waters, yeah. That's such a wild like Mad Max move of- To save Vincent Cassell's life. Cassell's just like engulfed in flames trying to escape and she just leaves and you're like, what's going on?

[01:32:52] Oh, she's going to get like a forklift to push the car into the water in the hopes that Cassell is able to escape in time. Yeah, because the fucking car, like what if he just was like trapped, like, you know? Yeah. He almost barely makes it out. Yeah.

[01:33:08] Yes. Yes. There's something going on in this movie. There's stuff going on. I have so much fun watching. Someone gets shot in the dick. Oh yeah. That is true. Real, like, dark side of it. Viscerally. Revocop style, yeah. Yeah, isn't it?

[01:33:21] It's Danny Sapani gets shot in the dick, right? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that's kind of, I mean, I guess it's in that- RIP. Theater of the Mind sequence, but when McAvoy shoots the guys through the shadows of the glass. Oh yeah, that is, yeah.

[01:33:35] That's a cool kind of thing, yes. No, the violence in this movie in general is fun and lurid. Like, I like the violence in this movie, yes. And that effect is so good and so simple on Cassell missing the top half of his head being blown off. Yeah.

[01:33:50] I believe they just shot a prosthetic and shot a plate of him and then combined the two. Nice. But like, the brain guts- No, I think that's, I mean, it's CG. I think it's a, I remember seeing some VFX breakdown

[01:34:02] where that was a physical thing that was built. Oh, they scan it and they booped on? Yeah, yeah. And boop is the technical term. Yes, I know. They booped it. I got Sean Bobbitt saying boop, so. You got him, you're like, can you boop this?

[01:34:12] Coming over, yeah, I'm like, somebody's booping here, so it means boop, boop, boop, boop. We need to boop Ms. Marvel right now. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I just, I- You love it, just don't deny it. I don't dislike it. I think this movie is fun.

[01:34:29] I do think the fair critique is like, I don't know if I can reach deep for you on what this is about. No. I wonder if, you know, if I had just done the Olympics, I keep thinking Oscars, Olympics, opening ceremony,

[01:34:45] and I just wanted to like make a movie. Like, I could see myself getting taken in by like a- You mean like if you had just done this super serious thing and it's like, all right, yeah. Yeah, you're like, hunting for some hours, and you're like-

[01:34:55] Well, that's sort of like, right, that theory that like every movie is a director's response to their previous film in some way. They're either following what worked for them or trying to go in the opposite direction of that. And it's like, this is him simultaneous with the Olympics,

[01:35:09] which is so much pressure and such a thing that is bigger than any one movie could ever be. I do think there's an interesting thought to this being like a psychological split for him, where he's like, I need a trash can to exercise all of this.

[01:35:24] So none of this is in my system when I'm working with the queen. Yes, it's a spit bucket. Yeah. Wait, what did he do after this again? After this movie, he makes Steve Jobs, which obviously- Which is him sort of going back to a safer zone.

[01:35:37] But also he's jumping into, and we'll talk about that movie plenty, but he's jumping into a Fincher project with a script that's written and all that. So that's not an entirely Boyle-generated project. And then after that, he does Trainspotting 2, which is a little more the sort of like-

[01:35:55] That came out during the pandemic. No, it didn't. It came out in 2017 and just no one remembers that it exists. Memory lists. And then he did Yesterday. Did it come out? Oh, what? Yeah, yeah. And then since then, he has done a television miniseries

[01:36:09] and he has now done another movie, Trust and Pistol. Yeah. About the sex pistols. That show was fun. I watched it. There you go, Ben enjoyed it. Yeah, my mom loved it. All right. She said it was the best TV show she's ever seen. Ever? I was surprised.

[01:36:26] Okay. When I saw Matilda the Musical in theaters, I turned to my friend and I said, this is the best movie I've ever seen. I, that movie rules. That movie is fantastic. That is one of the strangest things that's ever happened. It's so good.

[01:36:37] I'm so mad at Netflix being like, I guess we made this. And you're like, this is fantastic. I'm so mad at Netflix for their general attitude about the amazing shit that comes on the Netflix. I'm like, come on, you can't do everything the same. Right. But uh.

[01:36:50] We can't talk about this. Wait, can I ask a question? Yes. Anything. In the scene where he's in the hospital and a white doctor shows up with all of his Asian like students or like residents or whatever the fuck they're called. What the fuck was that commentary?

[01:37:06] Like, do you remember this? I do. It's a sequence where he's like, right, you ready to get out of the hospital? And James McAvoy was like, huh? He's like, you know what, what's your name? And he's like, I don't know, James McAvoy. And he's like, you seem good.

[01:37:17] See you later. All right. And his students follow on behind him. I don't know if there's. And they're all Asian. Obviously there are many, many, many Asian doctors in Britain, but I don't know if that's supposed to be a commentary on anything.

[01:37:28] Is this like a, this is the future, you better fund the NHS like and allow immigration or was it like. Possibly. LOL, why are there so many Asians? I was like, I'm confused. I don't know. I'm scared. This was another thing I was confused by.

[01:37:41] And maybe I shouldn't be looking for answers here. But like when the movie, the order in which things are presented to us in the movie, right? They first want us to make the jump that it's like, Cassell knocks him out. He's lying on the floor bleeding out.

[01:37:54] And then the next thing that happens, he wakes up in the hospital. And they're like, congratulations, we kept you alive. Do you remember anything? But then the movie later fills in, no, Cassell knocks him out. He gets up off the floor. He runs out into the street.

[01:38:06] He gets the text message. He gets hit by the car. He gets in the car. He chokes a woman. He drives the car to a parking lot. He leaves it there. And then at what point is he found? Does he end up in the hospital?

[01:38:18] At what point does he actually get amnesia? Right. Yeah. I'm like, when does his actions stop? He's choking her and while he's choking her, he's like, I'm sort of starting to forget what the deal is. But then as she drives the car. Puts her car in the trunk.

[01:38:29] Does he then walk to the hospital from the parking lot and go like, hey, I can't remember anything. He might be hungry. I mean, he's had a day so far. Maybe he stops to get some bites in the hospital. He actually, yeah, he goes to Burger King.

[01:38:41] He gets a Cheeky Nando. He eats it. He tips. You know. It's like a looming price. Which you don't do normally typically, right? No, not really. And like. 12% they have though now. Yeah, 10, 12%. And then like he walks to, I remember my little pound coin as a tip

[01:38:56] thinking I was such a grown up when I was like 14 years old. And then yeah, he maybe does some shopping. Right, right. A few weeks pass. Pretty much. I mean, but the thing is like anything could happen. And he's like, I'm not entirely complacent.

[01:39:10] It's like the Jay Leno interview I'm obsessed with. Did you watch that thing? Which one? I sent it to you and the Doughboys because we were, half of our conversations in our group texts are about Jay Leno. But Jay Leno had the horrible accident recently

[01:39:23] where one of his classic cars caught on fire and he caught on fire, right? And. Wait, really? Oh, yes. He went up in flames? Ben, this is what's crazy about it, okay? If I can talk about this for a second. Sure.

[01:39:36] And this is very important and on topic. We're almost done, right? Okay, good, yes. He didn't do an interview for like two months, right? And then went on the Today Show and his interview with Gayle King. She came to his garage, right?

[01:39:54] He's got his huge Jay Leno garage, the infamous garage, the titular garage, right? He was underneath one of his cars that looked like the car that Goofy rides. I'm sorry, the beginning of the interview is him underneath one of his cars?

[01:40:05] No, no, this is the story of what happened. But he's still in the garage and the car's still there, right? He was underneath the car working on it and there was some faulty thing and a fireball exploded. His friend who seems to be the guy he hires

[01:40:18] to help him with the cars all the time, he goes like, hey, can you get me out from under here? I'm on fire. And he's like, oh Jay, what a cut up, making these jokes about being on fire because his tone of voice did not seem

[01:40:32] to have any urgency in it. He wasn't like, oh my God, I'm on fire! So he rolls Jay out and Jay is engulfed in flames. And he asks, Gayle King asked the friend, she was like, how was it? He was like, really bad.

[01:40:43] I cannot tell you how disturbing it was. And Jay's like, meh, you know. Things happen. No one should feel bad for me. I've had a good life. And then she's like, Jay, wasn't it scary? And he's like, nah, you know. And he's like, so then what happened?

[01:40:56] He was like, I hugged Jay, I patted him down, I tried to engulf the flames. Then he ran to the bathroom and he came out and his flesh was falling off his face, right? And she was like, so what did you do next, Jay?

[01:41:05] And he was like, well, I drove home. He was like, what do you mean you drove home? You didn't call an ambulance? He was like, no, I didn't want to be a bother. It's like, what? And he's like, well, my wife, she doesn't drive

[01:41:14] and I, you know, I didn't want to pick up a phone. His wife doesn't drive? Yeah. We would have been married to Jay Leno. So he was like, I just drove. Doesn't he have like a chauffeur? I guess you don't need to. He's like, I drove myself home!

[01:41:23] And it's like with flesh falling off of you. And then he got home and his wife was like, what the fuck happened? I mean, like caught on fire. What did he look like in the interview? Did he have like bandages and stuff? He's got extensive reconstruction.

[01:41:33] You know, like, you know. Yeah, skin grafting. I mean, he looks okay now. He looks good. But he was like, his wife was like, why aren't you at the hospital? He's like, well, I didn't want to, I didn't want you to worry about me.

[01:41:41] I didn't want to bother. She had to like talk him into going to the hospital the next morning. And then he got to the hospital and they were like, you should have come here immediately. Well, I didn't want to be anyone's problem.

[01:41:50] And then he spent like two months in like a sensory deprivation tank. And they were like reconstructing an ear from his back flesh and everything. Oh my God. But there was just no urgency to this whatsoever. And Gail King was like,

[01:42:03] why do you keep making jokes about this? No one wants to hear me be serious. And she's like, Jay, you almost died. He's like, no, it's fine. And then he takes out a copy of the National Enquirer and is like, look at these weird headlines

[01:42:12] they did about me. Jay Leno caught in flames. I mean, that's ridiculous, right? She was like, no, it doesn't sound ridiculous. It sounds like you caught on fire. I don't know. I don't enjoy this. This makes me concerned for his mental health.

[01:42:25] It doesn't want to be a bother. Anyway, it reminded me of James McAvoy in this who just keeps on doing more things after getting injured. I felt like this movie was like a party your friend won't let you leave. Just keeps going and going.

[01:42:38] You're like, what's gonna happen? And you're like, I gotta go. And he's like, no, I got one more thing to show you. Yeah, yeah, and you're like, oh my God. And then eventually someone's dead. And you're like trying to tell him like,

[01:42:46] I have to go to the bathroom. You're pointing at the bathroom. You're like, you're re-angling over to the bathroom. Right, you're doing the thing where you kind of like, in the, you're like, anyway. Yeah, like, yeah, you're moving your whole body towards it, right? It's a relentless film.

[01:43:00] I like it. I think it's pretty fun. But I don't think it's one of his better films. No, it's not, but you know, you compare this to Yesterday. This feels thoroughly like a Danny Boyle movie. Yeah, it's got, yesterday was very, not, doesn't, yeah, doesn't really,

[01:43:16] it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not a good film. It's not a good movie. It's not a good film. It's not a good film. That's Hamish Patel's like big, right? He's a handsome boy. I got no beef with him. I like him.

[01:43:26] I've watched Extinction 11 and he's so good in it. But like, Yesterday is maudlin and kind of un-energetic. Like the whole thing with Boyle, it's like the guy at least always has pizzazz. Like even if maybe I don't love the material.

[01:43:40] Well, and like, you know, Steve Jobs is Boyle doing Sorkin. Masterpiece. There's another major author there. Yeah, but that's a masterpiece. Steve Jobs a lot too, actually. It feels like a Boyle movie. Whereas yesterday you're like, this is Danny Boyle directing a Richard Curtis film.

[01:43:52] That's a Richard Curtis film, right? Yes it is. And it's like, that's the franchise he's serving. Why, why did he, did he talk about, I mean, I guess you'll talk about it. He said he made it as a tribute to teachers. I've never understood that comment.

[01:44:02] I'm obsessed with that comment. Isn't there also that quote we read where he was like obsessed with Notting Hill and was just sort of like, I want to make one of these at some point. He has, right, he has long been like, wow, rom-coms.

[01:44:12] Like I've, you know, those things are crazy. I love them. I can't imagine how you make one of those. And then he did yesterday and you're like, not your strong suit, I suppose. Yeah, I guess you also couldn't imagine how to make one. What's he gonna do next?

[01:44:24] I don't know and I would love him to make another one. I mean the couple, Miss Saigon gets talked about. The Methuselah action movie with Michael B. Jordan. Yes, that has long been gestating, but yeah. These are the couple of things he's been like actively still talking about.

[01:44:38] Obviously he came very close to doing The Last James Bond, which was sort of- That like ate up a lot of his life. And then- Because he redeveloped, I mean he developed the whole script. Yeah. But that took him out of the loop

[01:44:50] for like a year and a half to two years. And then he's just been doing these, you know, fucking FX shows and it's like, you know, whatever. Anyway, we'll talk more about it, but well, I guess yeah. I mean at this point in the podcast,

[01:45:02] well there's still three films to discuss. Yeah, but it's starting to- We are starting to get to the Danny, what are we gonna do, you know, phase. Are you finding a new appreciation for him as you do this? I've always liked him.

[01:45:12] I don't know if I find a new appreciation, but I am enjoying watching all of them. But there is this part of him- A movie like this though, I'm like, look, if something like this came out right now, would it go over great? Probably not. No.

[01:45:26] But like there is just the sort of like energetic erotic thriller thing. It's just sort of enough to make us- If A24 released this tomorrow on a thousand screens, there would at least be energetic debate around it. Whereas, it would at least get a response like men

[01:45:46] or people who hated it were like, I really want to dig into this. Rather than trans where just felt people being like, fuck this movie. Oh, the other thing is 28 months or years later is the other thing they keep saying.

[01:45:58] Those are the three he kind of keeps talking about. Because Kelly Murphy is hotter than ever. And they supposedly have an idea. That's certainly right. I was making a joke to my friend and I was like, my sexuality is Kelly Murphy

[01:46:10] screaming Selena in the stairwell in 28 Days Later when he's running from zombies. I'm like, that's what I need in my life. A man just screaming my name intensely in a stairwell. It is, you know, I'm not going to say this. He's just unbelievably beautiful. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah.

[01:46:27] Watching that film again, it's just like, he looks like a precious moments doll with piercing eyes. And a Skrillex haircut. And a Skrillex haircut. I don't know, do you have general Danny Bull thoughts? I love him. I think he's a genius. I think he's, I love,

[01:46:43] I'm like a little jealous of directors who are like huge stylists. Like, cause I find it so, one, it just takes so much longer to shoot movies like that. Yes. And you have to be so, I just, I don't know. There are so many movies now

[01:46:58] and they all sort of are the same and they all follow the same fucking, you know, sort of like hero's journey and they all sort of are shot the same. It's just like, here's a medium closeup. Oh, we're going to start with a lie.

[01:47:10] Then wait, establish this location. You know, it's all like, and with him, you always know you're going to get something that's special and feels unique. And it feels like him. And it feels like an actual point of view and a real person's like,

[01:47:21] or a person's real demented brain. And I think that's special. And I love filmmakers like that. Yeah. I mean, look, you asked if they're gaining a new appreciation for him. I think my appreciation of him was really high to begin with. The thing I've thought about a lot

[01:47:38] while going through this career is just that it feels like it is impossible to make this career happen now. Right. You know? And it's beyond streaming. Right, right. And beyond that, that it's like even Danny Boyle at certain point, it feels like it started to run dry

[01:47:56] and it's like, why'd he make, I remember asking you when the Yesterday trailer came out, David, I was like, why is Danny Boyle directing this? And you were like, because he wants to make a movie. That was my guess.

[01:48:05] And it is so limited in terms of what movies you can actually get greenlit at a certain level. But people know what the Beatles are. Anymore. Right. Like Beatles is a brand name. It was a thing. You know what? Actually, it did do well. You're right.

[01:48:17] It did well. It did well. And it's like, that's one of those things where you go like, well, you know what? His 2010s box office run was kind of rough post Slumdog. He never had another like undeniable hit. Right.

[01:48:29] If Yesterday is what it takes to get him at a movie jail, then I'm excited to see what he does next. And he has not been able to get another movie off the ground. You know? But I also feel like Slumdog, looking at his filmography before,

[01:48:42] Slumdog is the aberration. David has made this point, which is like, Slumdog feels like him winning best picture almost by accident. Yeah. But it's so deserved because he has the mind of someone who does make a movie that is the best picture.

[01:48:55] But it's odd that that film was such a big hit, that it was such a runaway Oscar favorite, that suddenly the narrative became like, well, Danny Boyle of course is overdue when he was like never an Oscar-y filmmaker. He always felt like this edgy kind of like outsider.

[01:49:11] I don't know. It's like, yeah, I want him to just still be able to run through different genre exercises now. And you just feel like the options are getting more and more limited where it's like, you know, I like the fact that he walked away from Bond,

[01:49:27] that he felt like- Right. I'm not gonna just like get hammered into the franchise. Specific movie I want to make, and it feels like that's slipping away from me and I'm gonna step away now. Because like at that point in his career,

[01:49:37] sure, he doesn't need to do this for two years if it's not gonna be the movie he wants to make. But also it felt like he knew Bond might be one of the only ways I get to work on this scale anymore. Yes.

[01:49:49] A Richard Curtis script and having the Beatles music as one of the only ways I get to work on this scale anymore. Like it still feels like he's looking for the things. Let's play the box office game. Let's play the box office game. We're doing the wide weekend,

[01:49:59] not the limited, because we've done the limited weekend. Okay. Relatively recently. So this movie went wide, 500 screens. On April 12th, 2013. It's total gross in America, $2.3 million. What? It just, the movie barely came out here. Yep. Wow. It actually did okay internationally, made 20 internationally. So it made 22 worldwide.

[01:50:24] I don't know how much it cost, but I can't imagine. I think about 20. Costs about 20. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one this week, Griffin, is a biopic. 2013. Mm-hmm. It's not, is it 42? It's 42. I wanted to see if you could get it just from biopic, like sports biopic.

[01:50:43] Well, I just remember that was a big hit. It was, big hit. It's opening number one. It's gonna make $100 million. Can I ask you a question about that movie? I've never seen it. I saw it. There's a scene where Jackie Robinson gets on the train

[01:50:56] and the little black boy is like, wow. And then the train leaves and then the little boy puts his ear to the track and we hold on it. And then he looks at his mother or whoever he's with and he goes, I can still hear him. What? Exactly.

[01:51:10] I was like, what? And then it cuts to the next scene. I was like so confused. Anyway, that's all I remember about that film. I've seen that film. I don't remember that film. I was so befuddled. Anyway, continue. I just remember that film, you know,

[01:51:21] obviously it was one of those things where it was like, why has there never been this movie? Like, why has it never happened? Spike Lee wants to make it, blah, blah, you know, and then it's like, it's finally happening. Brian Helgeland is making it. You're like, oh, okay.

[01:51:32] Yeah, I mean, he's the guy who wrote LA Confidential. Directed Payback, the Mel Gibson movie. Oh, great. No, Ron Howard directed Payback. Yeah. Ron Howard directed Ransom. Of course, sorry. He did Payback. Helgeland did A Knight's Tale as well. A Knight's Tale, which is good.

[01:51:46] Right, which is not the obvious person to direct 42. Again, that was the time. He wrote and directed it. This is what they were doing at the time. And I just remember being one of those movies where you're like, yeah, this feels like

[01:51:55] straight out of the History Channel or whatever. It's like totally fine. Everyone is very respectful. Yeah, the X factor was Chadwick and everyone being like, oh, this guy's a genuine find. He's really good in it, but it was the whole thing with him

[01:52:08] was that the James Brown movies where you were like, oh, he can do something entirely different as well. And he can also play Thurgood Marshall. Like I remember that was when I was like, is he gonna play every iconic actor?

[01:52:19] And the answer was yes, and then I'll play a fictional one. Right, and then that will become more iconic. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it's a fine. Who's the white guy in that? Is it Kevin or is it Harrison? Yeah, okay.

[01:52:32] Number two at the box office is a comedy sequel. New this week. It's not Dumb and Dumber 2, is it? No. Comedy sequel. It's not Horrible Bosses 2? No. It's a two? It's in the spoof world. It is not a two. It's not a two? Yeah. Is it Scary Movie 5?

[01:52:53] It's Scary Movie 5. Wow, that's the Black Swan one? Say so. Wait, I'm obsessed with the fact that they finally got around to like critically acclaimed non-horror movies. Yeah, it's more like Oscar bait movie. No, seriously. That's Malcolm D. Lee. It's Malcolm D. Lee, right.

[01:53:09] And I think Black Swan is the main spine of the movie with Ashley Tisdale playing the Natalie Portman. Apparently there's also Paranormal Activity. Oh sure. Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Glad they skewered that movie. So scary. Inception. The most terrifying movie. They haunted his brain.

[01:53:28] Yeah, I don't know. His dreams. With machine guns. I love how it was like, this is really intense and metaphysical and metaphorical, but still guns are going. Big ass guns. You know, dramatic thrust. Number three at the box office is the animated film. Animated film, 2013.

[01:53:47] Got a sequel years later. It was a big hit. The Croods? The Croods. Yeah. Nothing to say about The Croods. I saw them. Number four is a action sequel. Is it a two? Yes. You hesitated. Well, it doesn't have the word two in the title.

[01:54:06] Okay, but it is a sequel. But it is the second film. It is the second film. Does it have a subtitle? Yeah, of course it does. Legacy, resurrection. It's an R, not resurrection. Rebirth? No. Redemption? No. I feel like if I can get the subtitle,

[01:54:21] I can reverse engineer the answer. Revolution? No. Revelation? No. Resurrection? I guessed that already. Redemption? No. Returns? No. Good guess. Closer? No. Okay. Direct me on the R word. Angry. Revenge? Rage? Revenge. Revenge is close. Not redemption, revenge. It basically means revenge. Retribution? Even closer. Fuck.

[01:54:49] Retribution, redemption, revenge, rage. David's gripping. You're just so close with retribution. What am I not thinking of? This movie that you've definitely seen. I've definitely seen it. Is it good? No. Okay, great. It's not good and I've definitely seen it. What was the genre you said?

[01:55:09] Because I talk about it because you think that lowly of me. You know I've definitely seen it. Because you like toys. Oh, oh, it's a GI Joe retaliation. Oh, okay. Which is bad, correct? Yeah. It's not good. You can't defend it.

[01:55:22] No, it's got some good stuff in it. It's not good. Yeah. GI Joe Retaliation in its third weekend. Number five at the box office. The movie that was opened last week at number one. That's why we couldn't do last week. Okay. Horror remake. We've covered it.

[01:55:36] It's a horror remake and we've covered it? Mm-hmm, on the Patreon. We've covered it on the Patreon. Part of a franchise we've covered on the Patreon. Oh, I know. I've seen it. I've seen it. Part of a franchise we've covered on the Patreon.

[01:55:48] Oh, I have a guess but I want you to describe it. What's your guess? The Thing? No, but very similar to The Thing remake. In that it's- Why are you remaking a masterpiece? Yeah. Sure. Oh, no, not this one.

[01:56:02] They do a better job than The Thing remake in my opinion. The thing about The Thing remake, while you're thinking, is that they did the best version of that. Yeah. Did you say Little Bear? Evil Dead. It's Evil Dead. Oh, but that's good. It is good.

[01:56:15] I think that's great actually. That is. I don't know shit. What were you saying? Sorry. The thing, like why would you remake The Thing? Oh, but I think what they did was actually the best version of it because it wasn't a remake.

[01:56:25] It was like this is where the dog comes from. Right, yeah. But giving it the same- I was thrilled to know about it. Title confused everyone. I know. It should have been called The Dog. Yeah, it should have been called The Dog.

[01:56:34] It should have been called The Dog. The German Shepherd. But yes, Fede Alvarez's Evil Dead, which is, as we said on the podcast, pretty crunchy fun. Pretty crunchy fun. Yeah. Says David Sims of the Atlantic. I think Evil Dead Rise looks fun too. Me? No?

[01:56:51] No, I think it looks great but it looks like a retry of the Evil Dead and that makes me concerned. But they're in a high rise. Are they? Different place, yeah. Apartment building. Okay, different, different. You know what I like about the trailer too?

[01:57:00] Can you imagine living next to where that's happening? It sounds like it. You keep it down. Our studio today. It sounds like someone's next door is doing an Evil Dead. No, I like in the trailer that the Deadites are like fucking with her.

[01:57:11] Right, kind of the old classic. That they have the annoying like taunting quality of the Sam Raimi Deadites. Mm-hmm. And then, Like I like that the Deadites are assholes in the Raimi movies. Who's directing this? Who is it? I think it's a Fede Alvarez type upstart. Lee Cronin.

[01:57:28] Uh-huh. Who appears to be a guy. Okay. Made a movie called The Hole in the Ground. It was like an Irish horror movie. Okay. So much Irish horror. I mean, it's a scary place. You've also got the Jurassic Park remake. I mean, re-release. 3D. Olympus Has Fallen.

[01:57:47] You've got Oz, The Great and Powerful. Sam Raimi. One of the greats. You've got Tyler Perry's Temptation. Don't remember that one. That's his wildest movie I would ever watch. Is that the one with Kim Kardashian? That, yes. Kim Kardashian, Taraji. Yes, Confessions of a Marriage Counselor. Yes. Brandy.

[01:58:05] Yes, Brandy's in it. That movie has one of the wilder twists. It's not Taraji, that's a different one. Oh, oh, oh, it's Journey Smollett. Journey Smollett, Bell. Acrimony is the craziest movie I have finished watching. Right, I confuse Acrimony and Temptation, but Temptation's the one that is bananas.

[01:58:20] Temptation is almost trance level insanity. In its twists and turns. Number 10 at the box office, The Place Beyond the Pines. What week? In its third week. So it was up to what, 275 million domestic? Got dumped in March. Remember that was a TIFF movie,

[01:58:38] but then it got dumped in March. Yeah. With two humongous stars. I like that movie a lot. Yeah, I mean, a perfect example of, yes. When that came out, I was like, oh, a little disappointing. And now I'm like, what I would give

[01:58:52] for A Place Beyond the Pines? Right. It's a dark time. Yeah. Like it's a really, it's a dark time. No, cinema's on the way up. What is cinema? Cinema's going back up. Like Maverick and his famous Top Gun jet. Ugh. Don't like Maverick?

[01:59:08] I loved watching all those action scenes in Maverick. Yeah. The sex scene with Jennifer Connelly. We're not even talking about that because that was the most sickening thing I've ever seen. Actually, it wasn't even sickening. It was just her lowering onto a pillow. Sounds like Dracula.

[01:59:22] But it's like that whole movie. I think it's smart that they're like, no one wants to watch Tom Cruise do this. Just cut to the- I don't think he wants to watch it either. I just want him to take that. No, cut to him talking to her.

[01:59:30] Exactly, and it's still on his T-shirt. I'm like, you look good, just take it off their shirt. Anyway, I was like, I enjoyed it so much. It was the first movie in a while that actually got my heart racing. Yes.

[01:59:40] Which I think is why everyone's like, best picture. There's all this diversity in the movie, but the entire movie is everyone being like, look at that white man go. Yep. It's like a fucking shrine to white masculinity. It's like, yes. Everyone's like, thank God they're back, he's back.

[01:59:53] And I'm like, this is crazy. But I was like, yes. Top Gun Maverick is one of those movies where you just cannot sit down and think about it too much. But the first Top Gun's the exact same way. Well, that's true.

[02:00:05] Which is why no one's watched it since the 80s. But yeah, I'm like, this is dark sided, but I loved it. It's effective. It's undeniably effective. I took the new indie movie, which I can't wait to see. But my friend was like, he was like,

[02:00:16] I can't deal with this. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, we let this white man whip people for decades. And I was like, he's never whipped any black people. He was like, he whipped Arabs in the first movie.

[02:00:27] And I was like, you make some good points. I haven't thought about that. I'll be first in line to watch the film. And I was like, so will I. And it's just like, it's really... The dial of destiny. I think it looks fun. It does look fun.

[02:00:38] Oh, I mean, James Mangold's gonna fucking kill it. Yeah. And David, you and I were both agreeing. Like it not being directed by Spielberg helps take a lot of pressure off of it. 100%. In a way where it's like, I just want this to be enjoyable. Yeah.

[02:00:55] It's gonna be a great summer for movies, including your movie, Nia. I was like, when is this coming out? Yeah. Tomorrow. I'm literally shooting while that comes out. So I'm not even gonna be like... You're making the water dancer. No, I'm making an adaptation of Hedda Gobbler.

[02:01:08] Oh, right. Norwegian play from... Yeah, no, I know Hedda Gobbler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You sure? Yeah, cool. But it's like kind of hookier and crazier and sexier. Speaking of sex and movies. Yeah, who's in it? Or is it a secret?

[02:01:19] I don't know if I can announce it yet. Okay, don't announce anything. Don't get in trouble. Jesus. You guys will bleep it all out. But it's... Playing Hedda. Cool, cool. And... Playing Loveborg. Excuse me! I know, I know. Ooh. And then Thea's being played by...

[02:01:37] I don't know if Radiel is done, but whatever. And then... We definitely are bleeping this. Yeah, we're bleeping all of this out. Oh, no, of course, no, but just bleep the names. But it'll be fun to have... Yeah, yeah, keep all the surrounding talk. And then...

[02:01:47] Well, again, Deal needs... Deal Pending is playing the judge. And then we're trying to get... Who wants to do it, but he's... Who'd be married and has like a sex scene with her. So, okay, so sorry. You want the names to be bleeped out,

[02:02:00] but I feel like all of this other information is gonna potentially be, I don't know, tricky. I mean, look, your call. No, actually, it's just Deal's... No, there's no identifying information. Yeah, and Ben, once again, with what I'm about to say, bleep out the name in question.

[02:02:15] I was going through my phone recently and trying to delete duplicate contacts or people where I'm just like, why did I have this number saved? This was like a taxi driver. I'm never gonna call this again, whatever, right? I found I had email. I have never met her.

[02:02:29] I don't understand why I would. I was like going back... Because everyone's talking about her. Well, sure. So she's just in your address book. But I was like going back through and I was like, was I on some group email with her?

[02:02:39] Did I do like a reading with her 15 years ago that I didn't realize? I wanna just show this email to you and see if it is correct or if I have saved someone else under her name. I'm confused by it. I don't have her email address. Interesting, okay.

[02:02:52] Then maybe... It's firstname.lastname at gmail.com. Well, sure. No, it was a weird one. Okay. At me. Yes, that was the weird part. Well, that's exciting. But so you're shooting that when Marvel's comes out this summer. That's cool. Yeah, which I cannot wait for. And then, yeah.

[02:03:09] And Marvel's is gonna be a platform released, you think? Do you know when it goes live? I don't know. We're hoping for theatrical, fingers crossed. God, that's so... You never know. I've been really fighting with Disney over this. Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's insane. Absolutely nuts.

[02:03:23] And I hopefully will come out in China. China's finally letting Disney movies back in. Yeah. And we should be great. They just announced they're letting Meghan in and that girl is a killer. You gotta watch out for her. I can't believe they're letting her into China

[02:03:37] with those knives. Those dance moves. Those dance moves. Yeah, all that twerking. All right. Nia, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks, Nia. I'm back anytime, Nia. Oh, yeah, great. Okay, sorry, I thought you were gonna do another quote for some reason. No, nah, nah.

[02:03:50] I'm just saying thank you for being here. Open invitation, come back anytime. Feel free to bring gifts next time. No pressure. She said she wanted to bring something for the mantle place. I'm not... You can do whatever you want. We'll gladly accept a gift.

[02:04:06] I'm gonna go next to King Ralph. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to read, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media helping to produce the show. A.J. McKee and Alex Barron for our editing. Lane Montgomery, the great American novel

[02:04:18] for our theme song. J.J. Birch for our research and letting us know about the general. Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check special features. Still doing Men in Black?

[02:04:35] Did I tell you guys I went to college with Marie Barty? You went to college with who? Marie Barty. Yeah, yes. I'm sure we know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant social media woman. She's the best. No, we're about to move on from Men in Black, Griffin to...

[02:04:49] Should we say what it is? Well, you know what, our next episode's the Olympics. So, let's do this. Okay, so then it's the Olympics. And also a reminder that every 10 days we unlock an episode from three years ago for free public consumption. Which is...

[02:05:01] So you go to patreon.com slash blankcheck. And you can get the full trolls, the experience with Richard Lawson, a classic. The bridge episode into the pandemic. The last thing we did in person, one of the first things we had to record over Zoom.

[02:05:14] A great time you'll probably want to relive. Tune in next week for... Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs! The episode David's... I wanted you to say it because you've been fucking waiting eight years. Steve Jobs! Steve Jobs! So, just to tease this episode, two treadmills.

[02:05:32] But we will be walking and talking. We will, the whole time. No stationary recording. And as always, hats off to the general.