Trap

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: they've covered previously. They have to talk about it. And more listeners will tune in because

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a new release film. And so maybe they'll actually stay on topic for the majority of

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: the time and create a clean entry point episode. It's a trap. They're watching the clocks.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They're checking all the bits. There's no way for them to fuck this up. It's kind of

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: dope, right?

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole podcast is a trap.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: This whole podcast is a trap. I will say this.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Anytime we have to talk about a new M. Night Shyamalan movie, it does feel like a trap

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: of our own making.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because...

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I look forward to it.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I look forward to it. It does feel like he is the guy who most consistently makes our

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: corner of the internet lose their mind in both directions. And that's part of the fun

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: of it. For me, for me.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: For me.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: For me.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's funny for how much he has become a like, I know exactly what I make. Here's

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: what I deliver. I want audiences of thrills and chills and fun. He feels like a guy where

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: every time there's a new movie, there's like an insane bruise being poked of people arguing

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: on both sides.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It does feel like every time there's, oh, people are going to be like this about it.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And then some people are like this about it. And everyone's like, see, here they go saying

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: it's bad. They don't understand. Like there's just automatic hackles raise.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, there's a lot to talk about. There's always a lot to talk about with M. Night. More

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: than ever now that you've spent about half a year really thinking about him.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about it.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about it.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: On what?

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Blank check with Griffin and David.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a trap.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: About filmography.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a trap.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Directors who have massive success early on in their careers, like say their third movie

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: is The Sixth Sense.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: True.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the highest grossing films of all time.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Third.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Third.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Third theatrically released.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Now spoken to M. Night Shyamalan about praying with anger, which he has lovingly restored

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and is getting ready to show to his children.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I was about to ask, is there going to be a fucking hard physical?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I asked him and he was kind of like, I don't know, man.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I think even he's like, does anyone really want to see that?

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's like, I have cleaned it up so my kids can watch it.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm embarrassed to show it to them.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But look, I have so many tidbits, guys.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's my take.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's also saying, like, I'm trying to restore like the visit and shit.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: He should get praying with anger as a special feature.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: On a 4K release of one of his other films.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know how like his old DVDs, maybe you don't know this or don't remember this,

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but I.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The Vista series?

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about the Vista series?

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what that is.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You're talking about the Vista series.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It was Touchstone's answer to the Criterion Collection.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying on his old TVs, he would put a short film he'd made as a teenager as a DVD

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: extra, like as a little joke.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember that vividly on the Vista series releases.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So it could be kind of like an elaborate version of that.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of that on like Criterion, say.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: A thing that people would react to very normally if any M. Night Shyamalan film.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I posed this question to Twitter once where I was like, not counting the previous Michael

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Bay editions.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Who will get the first like current day Criterion release?

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Michael Bay or M. Night Shyamalan?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: M. Night Shyamalan.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's Shyamalan for sure.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's Shyamalan.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I see a village.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Shyamalan makes the worst sense in that one that would make sense.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But he also he also has a lot of control over a lot of his stuff, maybe not the village,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but right.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like so he could easily license it.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know if he wants to.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he'd want to.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Why is Timothy Rose not in this movie?

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get into it.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Early success like The Sixth Sense was given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: passion products they want.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you decide that you've become the bank.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And you issue your own checks.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: True.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And bet the fucking house on the movie every time.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Was talking about this with Ben last night.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Producer Ben.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Where were you guys?

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Where were you guys last night?

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we went to go see Trap.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you went to see it second time?

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: My second time.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben's first.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Ben hadn't seen it.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben hadn't seen it.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a bit of a trap to get him to see it.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He suggested.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But this was the first director we properly covered on this show.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That is absolutely true.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Our first real blank check miniseries was on the films of M. Night Shyamalan.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: This is now.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: They went up to The Visit.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Went up to The Visit.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Five films since this movie series began.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: The only guy who stayed kind of of pace with him in terms of directors we've covered putting out films on a regular basis is Steven Spielberg.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Steven Spielberg and Shyamalan told me about the time they hung out when I interviewed.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We're getting told.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get so many tidbits.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So many tidbits.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But when we did that fucking series, neither you or I had seen The Visit.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And people had said The Visit was good.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And you and I were both a little side eye about it.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We were absolutely approaching that series from the sort of like, wow, the boom and bust.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I get.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, oh, I guess he made a little horror movie.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: That's nice for him.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But right.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But like.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if he made a nice little low budget found footage horror movie, he's not really going to be back.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you and I both watched it where you're like, this thing rules.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's had this insane third act of his career.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I put it to him as a third act and he agreed.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's the final act.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I just said, I think your career has three phases.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And before I even started explaining, he was like, yeah, that's right.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Which has been fascinating for us to cover.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's some questions I've thought of in relation to this.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Now that like this is a five film, six, if we count The Visit, I would put The Visit into this third act.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The Visit is the start.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Has any director in history ever consciously strategically chosen to go from highbrow to lowbrow in the way that he has?

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, I'm sure.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like directors who are kind of prestige golden agey or so, you know, like guys who then went into genre stuff later in their career.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: What makes him so fascinating to me in this act now that it is a proper like act and has had like its own sort of like arc within it.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's no perfect analog for what he's doing because what he's the money part of what he's doing is specific.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: He is one of one.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's getting more and more Carpenter references.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Like people keep comparing him to Carpenter.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Not in terms of like their approach to storytelling or whatever, but just kind of right.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like their consistency in the kinds of things they want to make and how, you know, their craft, but always in genre.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I don't know.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: There's right.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of Carpenter comparisons that are people are going to get so mad that I even said that.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like tripping over.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a trap because everyone gets so weird about M. Night Shyamalan.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They do.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They do.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie, party, party.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Have we introduced ourselves?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Salinas.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Party Salinas.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Griffin Newman.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm David Sims.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The intro was a little abstract.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, it's a throwback to the first episode playing with Anger Wide Awake where we didn't know what the fuck we were doing.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: No, we're usually tight as a drum.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Come on.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, this is my voice.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Ben Hodgman.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You said producer Ben.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't list all the nicknames, but they do call him the butcher.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[00:08:07] Ah.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Could you be chopping it up?

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: No, but I think butcher implies a poor editing job.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Butchered it.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm saying chopping it up like conversationally.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd chop it up.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be chopping.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: You'd be chopping.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: On the editing side, I think he's more of a surgeon.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes in with a scalpel.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Who else is here?

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Lady Raven.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, Marie, this is actually getting really bad.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's now becoming a problem.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: How bad this isn't.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to start it.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: My name is David Sims.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Marie Barty.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's Griffin Newman.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Ben Hosley.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Trapcast.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: A podcast about Trap.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: A totally normal movie that we all liked a lot.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We're here to talk about M. Night Shyamalan's new film, Trap.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I am a writer for The Atlantic and I wrote a feature about M. Night Shyamalan related to this movie,

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: which is why I keep talking about tidbits.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: This was your first.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's all the context.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a major feature profile of someone.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It was my first print feature.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I've written print stories before, but print feature.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You were talking to him.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It takes forever.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: How many months?

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I...

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're here to discuss Trap.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we've said everything.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We've said everything.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Pod Night Shyamalan cast.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Fun.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember that?

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember when we used to think, oh, the format will always be put podcast into the director's

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: name.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What would the new...

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_02]: What would it be like?

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Povid cash.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Podcast in the water.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well...

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, oh.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Knock at the podcast.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like what would...

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: If we were going to make the miniseries title one of his movies.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Podcasting with anger?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Never.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think you're right that it would be podcast in the water.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little boring.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm glad we're still at.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Pod Night Shyamalan cast.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say that my editor, Laura Bennett, my print editor, called me last summer.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So a full year ago.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And said, what do you think about M. Night Shyamalan profile pegged to the next movie

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: he's doing?

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So that is how long this has been in like sort of quote unquote in the works.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yes.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And here's what I would want to do.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, great.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And then she went to his people.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, you know, it's the opposite.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's the most complicated version of talking to someone.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That exists in my biz, I feel like.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But when did you first meet him?

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: March or April?

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's find out.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll look at my calendar.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was April.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So I hung out with him.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The first call with his people was in March.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I hung out with him in April and May.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I called to talk to a bunch of other people related to him and related to this movie.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, yeah.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and I saw the movie fully done like in late July.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was there and we hung out.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he was going to get dinner with Josh.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to come.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But I couldn't couldn't invite myself.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: People kept asking, knowing that you were working on this thing, has David seen the movie yet?

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just kept saying, like, he's still not done with it.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I saw like, you know, right.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: An unfinished version first at his.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole thing is that I went to his compound.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02]: This was my whole when Laura was like, do you want to do M. Night Shyamalan?

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, one, I've talked and thought about M. Night Shyamalan a fair amount.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So, sure.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Two, I am fascinated, as are we all, by his Pennsylvania compound.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: His compound, right?

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: His, you know, I don't live in Hollywood and I don't shoot movies in Los Angeles.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I do it all from home in Pennsylvania with my kids near me.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Although this movie was shot in Toronto.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Which we'll talk about.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about that.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But like his Pennsylvania operation.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, nothing else.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to go there.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So I drove over to Ravenwood.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It is beautiful.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: For a couple days with Night.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will talk to you guys about how that went.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But we're also going to talk about Trap.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, that this Pennsylvania compound is his capital for his movies.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: In that he, well, yes, at least for the visit and stuff.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: At least initially.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think he has to mortgage the house anymore.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but there was a poetic beauty to it.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think he's made enough off of this run of the six third act movies that he has more money to play with.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But at that point in time, it was like the house is on the line.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Where it was, right, where he made that movie with essentially by mortgaging his property.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: For a few million dollars.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then showed it to, I think, every single studio.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And they all said no.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Until Universal came back around because Blum was interested.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And like that was late.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But like that's how tenuous it got.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: What has it been?

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking at this Architectural Digest piece about his house.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Looks fucking nice.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So nice.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Damn.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: M. Night Shyamalan's Trap.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I drove there.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: We will talk about the movie soon, but I guess I'm in this now.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: People want to hear this.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I drove over to, it's in the main line.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's where Marie grew up.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Ish.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Ish.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Chester County, I believe it's called.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: No, Montgomery County.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But like.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's where you grew up.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That's where I grew up.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But this is where he is.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He's more out by like horse country.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's by Foxcatcher.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It felt horse.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas I was not.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But he is like next door to the Foxcatcher Ranch, which he told me about.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And he lives.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a big inspiration for the village.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: How close does he live to the village?

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the village where they shot the village?

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: No, the village where the people live as if it is still.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It's in his backyard.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They are still there.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's part of the compound.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Hurt's not dead.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just in the village.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, I drive out there.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember I got there and I park and someone comes out and is like, are you here to talk

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: tonight?

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yeah.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, I'm his driver.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, what's that like?

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like doing it for years.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Great guy.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, can I tell you a secret?

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: This whole thing's a trap for you.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: This guy makes movies.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard about M. Night Shyamalan?

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so he has these giant ranch offices that are gorgeous where all the editing and post

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: production and, you know, other stuff happens.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm there.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And then his assistant like runs up to me and she's like, night is at his house right now.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're just going to go there.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And so she drives me across the estate to his gigantic mansion, which is what Ben was looking

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: at sort of.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It looks like an Oxford University building.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's like a very nice old style kind of grandiose.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm whisked into the basement where he has a gigantic movie theater with these like

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: big shirtless statues or the columns holding up the ceiling.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Not of him.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: He said it was Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast was the inspiration for the design.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Very kind of like fun gothic, you know, vibes.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And he is with Ishana, his daughter, mixing the Watchers.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Watcher?

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Watchers.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Watchers.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The Watcher is the one with Keanu Reeves.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Watch out for that guy.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a piano wire.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Piano wire?

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember the hands with the piano wire.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Some sort of string.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so my introduction to him was right.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just they were like, sit down, sit down.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's working.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: He's working.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like him and Dashauna mixing a movie, which is have you ever seen anyone mix a movie?

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Griff, you might have.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty cool.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very cool.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's literally like, okay, go to 36 and then go to a time code.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's just like a monster hand grasping a tree branch.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, can it be like crunchier?

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, can we bring up the, you know, like they're talking about it in such hilarious detail.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It is so granular.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're just there visiting, it's so bizarre.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The visit.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The visit.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The visit.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so bizarre to enter into that stream where it's like all of this has almost become disassociative for them.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not thinking about it's tiny little pieces now.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're just like, I don't understand what I'm looking at.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're replaying it back like 60 times with the most minor variations.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting experience.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Editors, I also feel like are very cool in temperament.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole team is there.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were all cool.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: They like the podcast.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I got so much.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I know who you are.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like from.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And were you like, don't let him know.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like other, not from Knight, from other guys, you know, from his team.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Knight's more of a chapel guy.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: God.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: He loves.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben just gave me a look to end all looks.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: No, he probably just loves like, you know, locked on Sixers podcast.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like just sports podcast.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And Stavi, baby.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had like.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had directors before Knight tell me like that the sound mixing is like to them, like

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the most fun part in a way, which I kind of get.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so then and then I hung out with them.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: The hanging out with him is just hanging out with him.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, his office is gorgeous.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got this gigantic, you know, cathedral size room.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, posters on the wall.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: All his scripts.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Did I tell you the script?

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: All his scripts for every movie.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He sent me a picture.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And bound leather volumes of every draft.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and so you have.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's crazy.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like the sixth census he showed me.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like 14 draft.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm approximating the numbers, but like it's a bunch because he was like that

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: movie took a while.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it kept changing.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, the twist doesn't come until a few drafts in or whatever.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And then.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean the twist doesn't come until a few drafts in?

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't have the twist initially.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was a ghost story.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is the secret to why the sixth census.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if it was just built around the twist, it would feel like it would fall apart quicker.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like on rewatch.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It worked so well as like a human character.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously the Nate Bragazzi joke about how it made sense to audiences that his wife

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: is just mad at him and giving him the silent treatment for a year.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, yeah, it basically does.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's the real master.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a movie.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas other things like signs, like movies where he was like, it was really easy to write

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that movie.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You would see there were only like five drafts or whatever.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And there is Labor of Love and Black Sheep has two unmade films.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Labor of Love is the one that Bruce was going to do with him?

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The one that has had various like almost getting off the ground moments and then, you know,

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: didn't happen.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And that one's more of a drama without supernatural elements?

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a drama about a guy who lost his wife and is maybe like walking across the

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: country.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It always sounded to me when it was described like him trying to circle back to a praying

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: with anger type thing.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think from what I understood, he wrote it very early.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the sixth sense is him being like, well, genre is an interesting way for

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: me to express things.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But before that, right, he was more doing family stuff and more like straightforward,

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: treacly kind of drama stuff.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing we talked about when we did our sixth sense episode fucking 80 years

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: ago is that he went into the sixth sense being like, I need to write a script that is undeniable.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he was like, I've had two at bats that didn't totally connect in the way I wanted

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: to.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: One was sort of a trial movie.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: One got fucked by Miramax.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: What is the thing that like the script is so good that they'll let me direct it and they

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: won't fight me on it because this script is the asset.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I control the power by having it.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: A few things he told me about that.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: One, his kid had just been born.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: His first kid, Selika Knight Shyamalan.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think she had the night when she was a baby.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: She took that on.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Selika.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You mean Lady Raven.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Lady Raven.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, Lady Raven in the film Trap 2024.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: A Warner Brothers picture.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: A Blinding Edge production.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So his daughter had just been born.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So he said that he would have to like switch from like the baby to like, okay, I have an

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: hour to write, you know, like focus.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: The focus was very important for him.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, obviously his whole thing with the sixth sense was I want to direct this and

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: have final cut.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I will make it for a small budget.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there is an insane bidding war.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And Disney is like, well, now Bruce Willis wants to be in your movie, which will take

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the budget beyond final cut territory.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said like that was his big gamble.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But the other.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But then he said Bruce protected him basically.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But he was kind of like they were like, look, Bruce wants to be in your movie.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Good news.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Now your movie can be made for a lot of money.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Higher pressure.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Bad news.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Your contract says, you know, it's under 10 million is when you get final cut over.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't get it anymore.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's also the insane kind of luck and happenstance in that in that Bruce Willis

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: had walked off the Lee Grant movie.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: There's the movie about a sports agent that he was supposed to make with Lee Grant.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I forget who the female lead was.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: OK.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And he walked off like a week into film.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Broadway brawler.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: More attorney was going to be in.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It might have been good.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds kind of rad.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But he walked off and Disney sued him.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And part of the settlement was that he owed them two movies.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Three movies.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Three.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Armageddon.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The Sixth Sense.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, the kid.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Disney's the kid.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the one where you kind of feel like he's like, all right, you need one more.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: What shit you got?

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We got a movie called The Kid.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the thing.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like he was going to get paid his full fee, but he owed them three.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're going to him and saying, here's what we have.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That script might have never crossed his eyes had he not been stuck in a deal like that

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: because they would have been looking for a less expensive star, a lower budget production.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly it's like anything you want to do, we have to cash these in.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously changes his life.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Changes everyone's life.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Connected to that movie.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Willis.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Colette.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, Haley Joel Osment.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: The City of Philadelphia.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Donnie Wahlberg.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Us.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Us.

[00:21:22] It does.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, honestly.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Box office game was born that day when we did The Sixth Sense.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, yeah.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, we know that.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, listen to Blank Check.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know the highs and lows of his life.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But what are some interesting, you know, unbreakable?

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Very hard for him to make.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: He says you can tell in the movie just how tortured I am and how difficult, like, you

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: know, I felt, whatever.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the pressure.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Oz Perkins was on Big Picture recently.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I listened.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And he talked about, he and Jordan Peele are friends.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And they read each other's scripts.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And Jordan Peele.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: He was in Nope.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Jordan Peele sent him the Nope script.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, this is incredible.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe they're letting you make this.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's I, like, have to fight to get, like, half a million dollars to make my things.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And Jordan Peele's response was, yeah, but the difference is every movie I make now needs

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: to be the best movie ever made.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And he said this not with a self-importance, but a sense of burden that is very similar

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to where M. Night was starting with Unbreakable, where it's like the expectations are so high

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: on me now.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a movie that I think is him wrestling with those expectations.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he claims to me, obviously, no, I mean, like we went right into it because

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: obviously the movie's made so quickly after Sixth Sense, like 14 months later.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, you know, he says like difficult birthing the signs.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: He says the happiest, most fun he's ever had making a movie.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Makes sense to me.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The Village, you know, I mean, it was at his house.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I love The Village.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I told him over and over again, it's my favorite of his movies, which he was like, sure.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But directors are always just kind of like, okay.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I didn't talk to him about Joaquin.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, should I have?

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it would have been funny if I was like The Village.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Joaquin and Adrian Brody, pains in the ass?

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, but he worked with Joaquin twice.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what, yeah.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So my guess is they vibed.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: We were just talking about this before we started recording the episode.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Joaquin is this particular, you know, you know, slice of boar's head.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And those things are getting recalled from supermarkets right now.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's a mercurial.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Night has this very dreamy, if it feels right, it's right vibe to everything.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: He kept telling me, and it's not really hard to, you know, it's easy to believe that.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Something like Lady in the Water, you're like, you know, which is where my editor was like,

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: dig into this.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, call Nina Jacobson, which I did, which was fun.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I like sent the email to Nina Jacobson, who was head of Disney at the time.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is the person who said, like, I don't get this script.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he tearfully was like, then you don't believe in me.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he took takes that movie to Universal.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Warner Brothers.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That was Warner Brothers.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Warner Brothers.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it Warner Brothers?

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he didn't work with them again until this one.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, he takes it away from Disney.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the story is that.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the end of his relationship with Disney.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He sent her the script and was like, you need to read this right now.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, I'm at my child's birthday party or maybe a child's birthday party.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: The big story is their meeting, which is in the Hagiographical book written about him.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: What's it called?

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: The Man Who Heard Voices.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: The Man Who Heard Voices.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Where he's crying.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, I'll make the movie, but you need to explain it to me.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm not even saying no.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't really know what's going on here.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And his response is basically like, I need you to tell me you're proud of me.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't believe in me.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I email her because obviously now she's just this big shot who

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: does The Hunger Games.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, she's just she does her own thing.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, she's not going to email me back because I'm kind of emailing her being

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like, do you want to talk shit about M. Night Shyamalan?

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And she emails me back immediately.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I get on the phone with her.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, look, we're number one.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We figured it out.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We're fine now.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, which is Hollywood.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I didn't get it.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, did you see the movie?

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, yeah, it was the script.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the thing I didn't get.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, all of my problems were there.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it was not like that movie got changed in any way.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But talk about a movie that is just him following what feels right to him.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And did you see The Watchers?

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, sadly.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It was during a busy couple of weeks.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was traveling.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And it did not have a very long theatrical run.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was meaning to rent it before this.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I instead saw Trap a second time.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's fine.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, did anyone see The Watchers?

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of came and went.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I really liked it.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm the only person who liked it.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not know what it was about, which I guess is a spoiler.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe don't say.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I won't say.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You mean like what it's revealed to be about.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But once I found that out, I was way more interested in seeing the movie.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like a movie made by someone for whom Lady in the Water was a bedtime story.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's the truest example of his, yes, his Nepo baby children now creating works.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They're adults.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, I can feel the nice shummel on your new baby.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You're not just making a routine thing.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's dig into the heart of this, right?

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So much of the press around this.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The Shyamalan family.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not hard for this to be the angle, obviously, because so many of his movies are about family and all that.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's even back up from this.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The like Shyamalan family industrial complex, right?

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_00]: The growing Shyamalan family industrial complex.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: This like, oh, this summer is Warner Brothers releasing a movie by his daughter and a movie made by him starring his daughter as the biggest pop star in the world.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The song she wrote.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: He has three children.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so impressed that she wrote all of those songs.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like a real musician.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole genesis of the movie is, I think, him being like, should we do a movie where you do music and I do a movie and we like figure out how does that what's a movie that could have your music in it?

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say like it is not my type of music.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It falls into the like whatever episode we recorded where I was like adamant that I had not heard espresso and you guys were like you've heard it and you just don't think you've heard it.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You've definitely heard it.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I don't know.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Every song sounds like this to me.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of with you on that.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I completely disagree.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not on espresso, but not espresso.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Espresso is a lightning bolt of a pop.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to feel that way.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I am not about it.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I like so much pop when it cuts through for me.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And the way people talked about it, I was like, this is going to feel like fucking green light or me.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is going to be one of those songs that like fucking slices through espresso has made no impact on me.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Watching trap.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I did feel like, yeah, this sounds like what all pop music sounds like to me or let's say 90 percent of pop music.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It passes the sniff test in that sense.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think the songs in trap are serviceable.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm saying.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they're particularly distinguishable from one another.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, memorable.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think that matters.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear them.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually haven't listened because you can listen to them.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a soundtrack.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've only heard them in the context of the movie when your brain is kind of focused.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, but it's a different movie.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, like she's sort of like a Dua Lipa.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's like what's going on up there.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I was telling people like, yeah, it's like what if there was like a Taylor Swift concert and this happened.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I watched Taylor Swift.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I watched the start of the movie.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, right.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: No, she's a little more like a Dua Lipa.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like famous, can pack an arena, but not like a sunshiny poppy.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And Lady Raven is brat, right?

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she is.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But is the butcher brat?

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he is having a brat summer.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: He is.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: In that arena.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What I was going to say.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The way that he snatched that guy into the van.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Into the van.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That was so brat.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That was fueled by cocaine.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put a pin in that and come back to that.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you press the button that explodes the podcast now?

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: The red button that just deletes everything we've ever done.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Blows up the whole thing.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: This is it.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to keep the container on it for now?

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I want to do that.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: What I was going to say.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's available to us.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, oh, there's been a Nepo baby backlash to the Shamlots.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this has been the narrative that he is like, here is my family.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I've always cared about my family.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I never realized that his daughter was born like right when he was writing Sixth Sense.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That the whole, like the start of his career connecting with the public is part and parcel

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: with him being a father, which is pretty young.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's one of the few directors to get nominated under the age of 30 for Best Director.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: He would have been 29 when Sixth Sense came out.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So he probably starts writing at a 27.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Salika was born in 1996.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So he would have been like, you know, he met his wife in college and, you know, married

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: her after that.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Ishana, who directed The Watchers, was born, I think, in 2000 or 99 or something.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Shivani, which is the only Shaman I haven't met, works at the Fashion Institute of Technology.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're all like, it's like Salika does music.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Ishana does movies.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Shivani does fashion.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they're all in, right, the arts.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What I was going to say is his movies have always been very fascinating with children.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They've often had children as central focal points.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually an adult trying to understand if they're...

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they're child.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Tie-tie boys.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they are so tired you wouldn't believe it.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Can't even wake up.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Even when they're awake.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They're snoring while they're brushing their teeth.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they're really tired.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He's standing up.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, no, like Sixth Sense, obviously.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Haley Jolowsman.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Unbreakable has Spencer Treat Carter.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Signs has Breslin and Culkin.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But this sort of like adults being a little confounded by children and children who seem

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: a little more mature than the adults.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This feels like the movie...

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say before this point, the film of his that is most...

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: The two films.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me back this up, right?

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He has talked so much about his period where he feels like he lost his way.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: There were a number of factors at play.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But one of them is his children were of a certain age where he started feeling uncomfortable

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: about making movies that were scary.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, his sort of hired gun era, which is really just two movies.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Last Airbender and After Earth.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Lady in the Water is, here's a story I tell to my daughters at bedtime.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What if I make this instead?

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he does make The Happening in the middle, in between Lady in the...

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me throw this thread out, right?

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes to Nina Jacobson.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, this isn't like an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: He commits.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: He makes it.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: People are befuddled.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Then...

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Angry.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I give you that.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I feel like there's quiet reclamation.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You on that episode are speaking up for it and I'm like sort of incredulous.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is our Bulbasaur off-site?

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That's his favorite film of all time.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the great men on the internet.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is our Bulbasaur.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: For original listeners.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But certainly at the time, derided.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And people were like, this guy fucking...

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He blew it.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He hit the button on the desk.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And he cast himself as the savior of humanity.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is he thinking?

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Happening feels like him doing a strategic swing back of like, you know what?

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Great.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go as hard horror, R-rated.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to push the violence and people don't like it.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, The Happening feels like the biggest...

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel kind of...

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if that movie had different actors in it even...

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It would probably have been greeted as like, yeah, this is like a serviceable...

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: There's some really great set pieces in it.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think Wahlberg...

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the wind part.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I...

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I know that people...

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That I struggle with.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like...

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I just think if it wasn't Wahlberg going, what's going on?

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it...

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It would not have been as derided as it was.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if that movie was Joaquin and Bryce Dallas Howard.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you not find wind scary?

[00:32:41] It is...

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: If you think too hard about wind, it is low.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I did see twisters.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Wind can be very scary.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't say blanket statement.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think wind be scary.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It can blow thing at you.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Blow thing at you.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It can blow thing at you.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It can blow thing at you.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, is wind brat is my question.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, moving on from The Happening.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I got to push the button.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think Happening is the moment where he has the sort of realization that he's talked about of, like, I feel like my heart's not in horror.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: There's something that feels a little gross to me about trying to, like, torture an audience.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a dad.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: My children are of an age now.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm more engaged with their lives.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not babies, you know?

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So then he makes Last Airbender, which is, here's the show I watch with my daughters.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, it is undersung, but, like, it was a hit.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It was.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: People hated it.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's despised.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the most, like, toxic hits of all time.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But it made a lot of money in theaters.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: As someone who's now seen all of the show and its sequel series.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And you love them.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I love them.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I have not revisited the movie because I don't remember liking it.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, Netflix had that sort of very faithful, quote-unquote, version recently that nobody liked.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I saw some people kind of in that prequels way who had kind of grown up with that movie being like, you know, he got some stuff.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: More right.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And he kind of did this, which they didn't dare to do.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I saw a little bit of that floating around and I was like, we're going to reclaim the Last Airbender?

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Are we sure?

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, but anyway.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Then he does After Earth, which is like total for hire.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's Smith pursuing him.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, pretty much.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, with Smith being like, here is right.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a story idea.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Someone writes it.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Up until Trap, that is the movie of his that is most explicitly about parenthood.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: For how much it seems to be a major theme in his life.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You have films that are impacted by his.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Kids are present in basically every movie he ever makes except for, are they in The Happening?

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, but they are.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: They're around.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: In The Happening, they end up adopting John Leguizamo's daughter.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That's sort of, I mean, he has different versions of family, of parenthood.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: The Visit is obviously dealing with two levels of parenthood where it's so much about sort

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: of Catherine Hong.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He was really upfront with me with like the Visit split.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: My kids are teenagers.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Like at that point, you know, the kids in the movies are teenagers.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: When they became teenagers and they were the audience, they were now the age where they

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: could be an audience for a horror movie.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I'm back into the idea of making nasty movies.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, the word he kept using with me with Trap.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Trap is devilish.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he's like, I'm having fun.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm being a naughty boy.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's let the devil out of the elevator.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, that's just, he's like, I have not.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: He said the movies that he's had the most fun, like writing and making are signs, The

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Visit and this.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Where he's like, I am having the most fun.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I am just like kind of at my silliest.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And kind of like, could I do this?

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, cause like knock it old, knock at the cabin.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Old, I think is incredible.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Knock at the cabin, I think is good.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I think knock the cabin's okay.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But those are both like pretty sad.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously so weighted by like, oh my God, my kids are getting older than me.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: What happened to the babies?

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He's trying to work for feelings about humanity in those two movies.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I think old is fun at times, obviously in a midsize sedan and you know, like there's all

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: kinds of like wacky stuff in it.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But doesn't old have kind of a hopeful ending?

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Cause they, it's the whole thing of them escaping.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it does, but I mean, it has really sad shit in it.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's sad.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But I remember when we saw knock at the cabin, like we kind of just, we just stayed in our

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_03]: seats and we were just kind of bummed out by it.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge bummer.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Although it does also.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: End with boogie shoes.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_02]: End happily.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_02]: In that, like, they're not just all dead, I suppose.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But knock at the cabin is definitely the biggest bummer.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Super bummer.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And then for trap, I was giggling, cackling, clapping my hands, stomping my feet.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And Griffin and I at one point pointed at each other.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It was so sold out that I could get one single seat the row in front of you and your husband,

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And then our friend Pat Willems sat one seat behind you.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So occasionally we'd sort of turn around to give looks.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben and I went last night.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It was also nearly sold out.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We thought we were gonna have to sit in the front row and then someone exchanged tickets.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was basically sold out a Thursday at 7 p.m.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And good audience responses both times.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about the audience responses, which are interesting and now feel like we've

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: come back to a sort of like 2000s Shyamalan thing.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The audience is alternating between feeling very locked in and kind of is this right and

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: laughing at points.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, is this a joke or not?

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Totally.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It's supposed to.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It's supposed to be fun.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I agree.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, obviously, look, the beach that makes you old was kind of a major meme.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But like, it feels like this is the first time in a while that the general culture has

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_02]: just kind of been on board with like, it's like Josh Hartnett is a serial killer.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I get it.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, right.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like everyone's kind of like, I want to see that.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I like him.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I miss him.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to see him.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad he's here.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like there's a general cultural happiness.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me try to tie a bow on the point I've taken too long to try to.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But then Marie wants to say.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I want to bow it up.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, bow it up.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: All of his films have in so many ways so directly related to his identity as a father.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But he has not really explicitly been making a movie about his identity as a father until

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: this one.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: After Earth is so much more about Will Smith's relationship to his son as a father.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if he did write it.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben turns to me like 30 minutes in and he's like, is it insane that I'm kind of rooting

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: for him?

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I went, no, this is the whole fucking point.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what he's doing.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think like the first time I saw it, I was a little perplexed by like, I'm into this,

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: but I wouldn't say I feel scared.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not feeling the thriller on edge thing.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you realize the trick he's doing is he is building the discomfort from making

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you identify with this guy, because this is the closest he's ever come to a self insert

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: character in any of his movies.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Griffin, he would be so happy to hear you say that because the first thing he said to

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: me about trap was that it was basically like I wanted to like collapse protagonists

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: in an attack.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's that's the challenge I wanted to set myself.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the first thing that's interesting to me about trap.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The trailer comes out.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: People go, why is he spoiling the twist?

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, the twist is the setup because he's flipping the way you would usually watch

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie like this, which is most people would write this film where you're rooting for the

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: guy and he's trying to help his daughter escape under the assumption that they're trying to

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: avoid the killer.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end, you find out he's the killer.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And instead, he's playing this fucking trick on the audience and being like, no, you got

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to live with this guy.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to live in his head.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to fucking watch conversations basically from his POV very often the way he shoots

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: it.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because it is Shyamalan trying to reckon with like this 25 year cycle of like, why

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00]: do I do this?

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What is this part of me that like defines myself as like an artist and as a father?

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I keep the two worlds separate until the summer of 2024.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: He had always kept the two worlds separate, even though they were always kind of informing

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: each other.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's like I genuinely do care about my daughter and my family and being that kind

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of guy.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But also there's a part of me that wants to be fucked up, nasty shit.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be devilish.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I fought it for a couple of years.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, that's too gross.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me make fucking Will Smith movies and Nickelodeon adaptations because I didn't want

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to scare my daughters.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But these two things coexist.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And his daughter is the hero in the movie.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's why all this shit's so interesting.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie, what do you want to say?

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: By this time, I've forgotten.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe something about I was thinking about the social media marketing for this movie,

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: which I really enjoyed, which is his fun facts.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_02]: M. Night Shyamalan's personal Twitter account that tweets out, right?

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Fact number one, we shot this on film.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Fact number two, we're, you know, we are so locked into the protagonist's perspective that

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: we own, like the camera's only catching what he could see of the concert.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You only move closer to Selika if, to Lady Raven, sorry, if they move closer.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, fact, uh, that's fucking fun.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Fact number three, um, he hired Ty, uh, director of photography, Sayombu Mudikpram, uh, off

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Call Me By Your Name.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, he, uh.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Also as an Apichapong guy.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Is, is, right, the Apichapong guy, but also he shot Challengers this year.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He's having a hot year.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_03]: The movie looks so fucking good.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It does.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a movie where he's creating a bunch of innate challenges for himself and how

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to shoot it.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the kind of environment he usually works in.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You're dealing with an environment that is like largely pitch black in reality.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, how do you light this?

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you shoot this?

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_00]: David, do you have any insight into this?

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a nightmare to make this movie.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sure.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Watching this, I felt like.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Not a nightmare to write.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Loved writing it.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Loved thinking about it.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But he said it was.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It was the fastest he ever wrote a script.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That is true.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and he said the signs had been the fastest before that, even though both films, even though

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: both films have dark elements, both had me laughing every day as I sat down to

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: write them.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of his fun facts.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Devilish.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but, uh, I think he's, you know, look, the thing, you know, he strips as much budget

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: out of his movies now as he can.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: He's trying to make them cheaply so that it's his whole process.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're about to answer my question.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What's your question?

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No, you go ahead.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But he said just the logistics of this and he's always doing a new challenge, right?

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: With old, it was the, you're shooting on the beach or what, you know, like there's

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: always new.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And the beach makes you old.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the other nightmare with old is it's like characters age, you have different

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: actors.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're swapping people in and out all the time.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a deep pandemic shoot.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Big COVID.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: He was in a bubble.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but the, with this, it's just like you're in an arena.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's the set.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: For half the movie.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Most thrillers are about enclosed spaces that are pretty tight.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have the, you need the concert going on in the background for scenes, right?

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to dub that in later or whatever.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that was just a huge fucking pain in the ass.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not in the front row.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: This is my question is I'm watching this the first time.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And the first thing I clock is like, those don't look like CGI crowds to me.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That has become the de-regue thing, especially post pandemic.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_00]: They got used to it.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You watch any fucking episode of Ted Lasso.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, there was no one in the stands.

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The CG on Ted Lasso is great.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The crowd is filled with.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Brett Goldstein is a CG character, right?

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: He's not real.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I'm watching this and for a movie that I know had a pretty tight budget,

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like every time, and I'm sure they were very strategic about you're shooting

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: just this part.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The crowd is only filled in that sliver.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But still, it's deep shots where you're looking back, back, back, back behind.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that was all really annoying.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are all fucking people, but he did it.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's probably, it's why, yes, he did not shoot in Philadelphia.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Marie, I'm sorry to tell you.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I immediately clocked that it was not Philadelphia.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and I assume it was because this place they used was, you know, gettable and affordable.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: They shot the film in Toronto, correct?

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Entirely.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, to the point of he knows this is funny.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_00]: He is trying to be funny.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_00]: A thing that people will fight about with M. Night Shyamalan movies forever.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, most of the local hires in this film are people from the Toronto comedy scene.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I have several very close friends who are comedians in Toronto and, like, the woman Vanessa

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Smythe, who plays, like, the stage manager who's, like, helping them so much, who I think

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: is excellent in the film.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: She is.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Someone I've known for, like, 15 years.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00]: She feels really, really real.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You didn't tell us that you knew her.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_00]: My mind was kind of blown that she was in it.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: They might have told me at some point, but I was like, that's, like, my, like, friend's

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: friend who they did, like, high school plays with and college plays with and who, like,

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: did improv and shit.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Same with the fucking merch stand guy.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you a secret?

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Merch stand guy's a Toronto guy?

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but also Toronto comedy guy.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, all these Toronto comedy people I follow are posting with pride of, like, so cool to

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: see our friend in an Amit Shambhalan movie.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And that extends to basically all the roles of that size.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Is the daughter Canadian?

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Depiled from the comedy scene.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: No, she's, I think, Australian.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Ariel Donahue.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought she was good.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: She's great.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought she was very grounded in a movie that is very ungrounded.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Dude, she rocks.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, like, the kid is always the most centered one.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Even when the kid is haunted or a problem, the kids are always the one who have their, like,

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_00]: feet on the ground.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I talked to Shyamalan the first time.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen, you know, the movie's nowhere close to it on the first time I hang out with

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: him.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to Hartnett, who was given the wrong phone number for me and apparently called

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that phone number, like, 40 times before someone was finally like, it's actually, you

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: know, this.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Can you imagine getting a call from Josh Hartnett?

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, I have been harassing someone.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, they've gotten so many phone calls from me.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's insane.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And Hartnett was like, and I got so mad at you.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you weren't answering.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And this guy's blowing me off.

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Hartnett is like, I'm like asking him questions.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, you haven't seen the ending, right?

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You haven't seen the whole movie.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: For a while, he had only showed you the first act.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: That was what was locked.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, no.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, well, I don't want to spoil it for you.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to, you know, I don't want to fuck with your viewing experience and all

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, OK.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But then in my back of my mind, I'm like, it better not be that the kid knows about all

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: this.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that would just felt like the most obvious, disappointing twist.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And the only reason it's even occurring to me is it's like, is there going to be a big

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: reversal?

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the way Shyamalan has fucked himself and continues to have to like struggle to live within

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: the expectations of how people watch his movies.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You're always on edge going, is he going to do some shit?

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He does have the advantage that you're on edge in a way of like, what is it going to

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: be?

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's his greatest power and his greatest weakness at the same time.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was really happy once I finally saw the movie that it's like, no, the daughter

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't know about it.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_02]: He thinks her dad is being weird.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And this revelation is devastating to her.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's played quite naturally.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_00]: David.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what we like?

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_00]: If you had to name one thing that you and I show like, I think we love the movie.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_00]: We love the movie.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And what do we love?

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We love going to see the movies at the theaters.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That is very, very true.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very important to us.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: The theater experience is worth preserving, is the best way to experience a movie.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And let's let's just say it, David.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We're thrilled.

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We're excited.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We're overjoyed.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: This has long been in the works to celebrate the great union of Regal and Blank Check

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_00]: because Regal Cinemas is offering Blankies an incredible deal on unlimited movies.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, from the Regal Unlimited program, David.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: The Regal Unlimited program is an all you can watch movie subscription pass.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It pays for itself in just two visits.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions, premium formats.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get your reservations for those as well.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Pay the little surcharge, which of course includes my beloved 4DX.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: With Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You also save on snacks.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Members get 10% off all non-alcoholic concession items.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're planning to see two movies this month, Regal Unlimited just makes sense.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We're both fans of this program.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We're both members.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Regal Unlimited.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We're both members.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Card carrying members.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is insane how easy it is to use it.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It is so simple.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy peasy.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what else is easy peasy?

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: You can sign up right now in the Regal app or at the link in the description for this episode

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and use code BLANKCHECK, one word, to get 10% off your three-month subscription.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is a big deal.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Huge.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a movie company that shows movies in theaters.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Which we love.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Sponsoring our movie podcast.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And the two of us go to Regal Cinemas to see movies.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Once again, 4DX.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't understand how exciting this is for us guys.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I also want to say, here's some benefits.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You sign up for Regal Unlimited.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You get the free tickets for your one subscription fee, right?

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Per month.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You also can earn points.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Get your points.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_00]: All the purchases you make.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_00]: This is real Griff stuff here.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The Regal Crown Club.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been a member since 2008, baby.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You can redeem those points for upgrades on concessions or free concessions.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you can log on to their website and you can buy excess promotional merchandise.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I do this all the time.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how do you get figural cup toppers months later?

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Click, click, click, click, click, click.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Type, type, type, type, type.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Redeem points.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, on Mondays, you get 25% off candy.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_02]: On Tuesdays, you get 50% off popcorn.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Plus, you get discounted movie tickets as low as $5 with a Regal Value Days program.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at this.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's an embarrassment of riches.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: On your birthday, you get a free popcorn.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I love my birthday.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Every time you visit a ticket to a movie, Regal Crown Club just tracks those visits and you get the bonus extra credits.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to do anything.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just doing it for you.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little more excited about it, David.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really incredible.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_02]: What ease of use?

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Once again, go to the Regal app or you can use the link in the description and use code BLANKCHECK to get 10% off your three-month subscription.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can go see movies.

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I go to the Regal Essex a lot.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's sort of my local Regal.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll brag.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you go?

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I go to Union Square because they got the 40X.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: A classic.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You like the 40X.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I love the 40X, David.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Regal.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Can we talk about the movie?

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: No, can we talk about Heart in it for a little bit?

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Hearty Heart.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_00]: He is phenomenal in this film.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's so good.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Our buddy Patrick Willems hosted a Josh Hartnett podcast for Be Hard Hartnett for several years in his real fallow period before even Guy Ritchie reclaimed him.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess he was on Penny Dreadful.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Penny Dreadful.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He played a werewolf.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't he?

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a real nasty story.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that who he played?

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: My wife watched Penny Dreadful.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I never did.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he does play a werewolf because I...

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, he's the wolf, man.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I used to be a werewolf, man.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: People have been telling me to watch Penny Dreadful because I was like Josh Hartnett.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I was not familiar with your game.

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_03]: People are like, well, you would be if you watched Penny Dreadful.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, okay.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Billy Piper is in that show and I love her.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I think...

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Rory...

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Rory Kinnear, I believe, plays...

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Frankenstein?

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Frankenstein's monster?

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He plays Frankenstein's monster.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of an interesting character.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I heard that one of the EPs is the devil himself.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: What?

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Satan.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_02]: The most devilish of all.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Executive producer.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Satan.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The movie ends.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I turn to Patrick.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I go, I mean, you must...

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Vindicated?

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_00]: ...be feeling so good about the fucking stock you bought 10 years ago.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And?

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, I'm cashing out.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00]: The return on investment is unbelievable here.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What's your relationship with Josh Hartnett as a woman my age, Marie?

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is...

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I grew up with Josh Hartnett.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the thing.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I was aware of him as a teen people sex symbol.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But I was a little young for a lot of the movies that he was making in his prime.

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess you're younger than me, actually.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So you...

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And he made R-rated movies.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_03]: They were either like adult R-rated movies or they were in a genre that was unappealing

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_03]: to me as a young woman.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the faculty might be a PG-13.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen the faculty and I've seen Virgin Suicides.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is...

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Until this moment, Virgin Suicides was the one performance where I was like, well, this

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: is where I get what people were saying about that.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And the faculty was an R.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, I saw those movies later and I still haven't seen Pearl Harbor, which a lot

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_03]: of people are shocked by.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I have also never seen Pearl Harbor.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Wait.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Whoa.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Her not seeing it.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised you've never seen it.

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, time to slap Bay on a spreadsheet.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the thing.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Pearl Harbor, it was like, oh, everyone loved Titanic.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's another movie that's like Titanic.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But okay, you're swapping in Faith Hill for Celine Dion.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_00]: No, thank you.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when you were out immediately.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And then also, it's like, okay, Titanic, it's a classic four quadrant.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_03]: There's stuff for the boys.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: There's stuff for the girls.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not about war.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Correct.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Pearl Harbor is about war.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that...

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, as a child.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_02]: A few things to say about Pearl Harbor, which apparently I'm the only person who's seen

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_02]: it because there's no way Ben saw Pearl Harbor.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Nah.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Because Ben's like, Pearl Harbor is something they assign papers on, so I won't be going.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Ultimate homework movie.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank you.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a $200 million homework movie.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the problem with Pearl Harbor is what you're talking about is that the studios are kind

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_02]: of like, we got a Titanic on our hands, baby, because people kiss in this.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's tragic.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Love triangle.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And Pearl Harbor is not about war because it is largely about people hanging out at Pearl

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Harbor before Pearl Harbor happens.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just sitting there looking at your watch being like, isn't Pearl Harbor going

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_02]: to happen at some point?

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more just a tragedy.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in the last hour, they tack on tons of action because they're clearly like,

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you came here for this too.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to give it to you and it feels often a little superfluous.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The thing about Pearl Harbor, I mean, it's not a successful film.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen it in a long time.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The action, some of the action is impressive in the Michael Bay way.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Affleck is so fucking awful in it and so like lost that Hartnett is really, you're like,

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_02]: this guy at least is kind of natural and charming.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a huge deal that they were like elevating him that quickly to that level.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_00]: My memory.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_03]: His first, his first two movies are Halloween H2O where he plays Jamie Lee Curtis.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_02]: He's good in.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He's, he's, I mean, in the faculty.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Halloween H2O is 40, 45 minutes long and is fairly watchable, but not amazing.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's good in it.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The faculty rocks.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That, that, that movie's fun.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That leap up from like, you're a dimension horror, like ensemble player to you are one

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: of the three faces on a Michael Bay Memorial Day release was really fast.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was matched with this energy of everyone being like, he is the guy.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He is the future.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_00]: All women love him.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Studios are betting on him.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: In between there was obviously the virgin suicides, which he's incredible.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He's really good in that.

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_02]: He's doing exactly what the assignment is.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Side note while we're still in this period, just want to acknowledge that he always had

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: weird hair.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I also feel like it was no one quite knew what to do with his hair.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, should we make it long?

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Should we make it like, you know, this is his best hair look ever.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's this movie.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He's so fucking hot in this movie.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And it ends with him fucking just playing with the hair.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, when he took what we're going to get to, when he took his shirt off.

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, for no reason.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But audience, audience.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I clapped.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I was.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the reason, my friend.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what?

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Great body.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a great body.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's he's a big guy.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's, you know, statues.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I get, you know, not in the annoying Chris Pratt, like roided up with my husband.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And he was he was like, OK, is this like when you got really excited in the Austin Powers

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_03]: commentary where you're talking about Mike Myers, his body?

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, kind of.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a better body.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to drop Mike Myers.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You're an incredibly smart person with great opinions.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But Mike Myers is kind of cut in this remains one of the most insane things I've ever heard

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_00]: anyone say.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_00]: His 2001 is huge.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just he looks good.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of cut.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just Pearl Harbor.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's oh, which is this opportunity for him to play against.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I heard.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is good.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I would like to see it.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a very flawed movie, but he's good.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's also a movie that's held back for a while because of Columbine.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_00]: One of his earliest films.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a school shooting movie?

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's set in high school.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's on a shelf for like two years and changes distributors.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_03]: A school shooting in Othello.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That's how they turn.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how they modernize the fucking Town and Country is one of his first movies ever,

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_00]: which he shoots around the same time as Halloween.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Also came out in 2001.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Comes out later.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Much delay.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like backlog stuff.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_00]: There's also Black Hawk Down.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Which I think he is wonderful in.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a bit of a boring role in a way because he's the, you know, the good guy.

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_02]: As much as that movie can have a good guy.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_02]: A movie I've seen so many times.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the most David movies of all time.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And so then, you know, even though Pearl Harbor wasn't well received, it is kind of like,

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, well, we got a star on our hands.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's this weird thing where like that movie, the poster is just him.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's him sitting in the helicopter.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a big Bradley Scott movie that got Oscar nominations and was a big hit.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Huge hit.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And yet everyone went to see it and they were like, oh, he's not really the lead in this.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess he kind of de facto is, but it's not a movie that has a conventional.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's an ensemble.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, oh, this feels like the movie that should make him a star,

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_00]: except you watch it and you're like, well, it's not really designed to make anyone a star.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Then he did 40 Days and 40 Nights, which is a pretty boneheaded movie that did okay.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Then he did Hollywood Homicide, which is a pretty stupid movie that didn't do very well.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the one with Harrison Ford.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is where I feel like he, as he put it to me and has put it to other people,

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_02]: is starting to be like, what the fuck am I doing?

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And Hollywood Homicide is the thing that Tarantino always talks about that the studios have now abandoned,

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_00]: which is like the way you launch stars is you put them with established stars.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you need your movie that's like, here's an Oscar winning legend and here's the new guy.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So like The Color of Money.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the perfect version of that, right?

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like there's a baton pass that makes the audience believe this guy and accept that they're going to go for the crown or whatever,

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or, you know, sit in the throne, except that's the worst version of that movie maybe ever.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And then around this time, there's the story that he's being offered $50 million to do three Superman movies.

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He passes on.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_02]: The Ratner Superman.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The Brett Ratner Superman.

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And he, as Shyamalan put it to me, he declined the cape.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And it codifies in that moment.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_00]: People are like, guess he doesn't want to be a movie star.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Because after that, it's just, it's Wicker Park, which I've never seen, sort of serviceable thriller.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's Sin City.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He has the little role, which he's actually kind of good in.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot he was in that.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was the self-funded proof of concept short that Robert Rodriguez shot to sell people on.

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's how the film would look.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's just like the beginning of the movie.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And then once he made the rest of the movie, he was like, let me shoot one final thing with him at the end to tie it back in.

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: In 2006, he does like the Black Dolly and Lucky Number Slevin, which are two movies that don't do well, but are, I feel like, better regarded now.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: People like Lucky Number Slevin.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He's really good in Slevin.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_00]: He's good in Slevin.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_00]: A movie that's kind of strange.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of a stupid movie.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also called Lucky Number Slevin.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a major issue.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But to ground a thing, Marie and I being the same age, right?

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_00]: In 2007, just to wrap it.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_02]: 30 Days of Night.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That, I feel like, is his last large-scale movie for basically 10 plus years.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, so he's like headlining September horror releases.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Is this what happened to this guy who we thought was supposed to be the next X, Y, or Z?

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like very befuddled by the whole Josh Hartnett thing across the 2000s that you just laid out.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: When everyone was like, this is the guy, I was like, I have no strong feelings about him.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: He seems sturdy and fine.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Virgin Suicides is the only one where I was like, huh, he's got some juice in this.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_00]: The charisma is undeniable.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I also, the heartthrob thing, I was always like, this guy looks like an old man.

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_00]: He looks like an old man in a 20-year-old's body.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of a funny face.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_03]: As I've gotten older, I know.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I never thought that.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I just thought this guy looks like he, you know, cut his own hair, like.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: That was part of it.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Like a shaky hand.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think in my dumb, like, straight boy, young dude thing, I was just like,

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: this guy has, like, weird teeth and a unibrow and his haircuts are dumb.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How can you think he's hot?

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Hot guys look like, I don't know, Mark McGrath from Sugar Red.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And his teeth are very attractive.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you're talking about.

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: What the fuck are you talking about?

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about me being a dumb 10-year-old.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: The only thing that was weird about him was his hair.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He had, like, baby bangs at one point.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: This is my Ewan McGregor thing all over again.

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: The point is, I'm putting myself on the cross here.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That means that I watched this movie and I'm like.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You martyr.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He's hit his ideal age.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of think.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when you saw him in the Richie movies and then Oppenheimer, you were kind of like,

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: dang, right.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Often, you know.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's, like, grown into his body in the right.

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, all of it makes total sense to me now.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And this performance is just, like, genuinely did not know this guy had it in him.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I had been, like, accepting the narrative of, like, we kind of gave this guy a bad run,

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you know?

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And, like, he's good in the Richie movies.

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He's good in Oppenheimer.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, this is, like, really, really solid sort of, like, ensemble work.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And then here's a movie carried by him where he is doing an incredibly complicated, very

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: stylized, very bizarre performance.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I think incredibly well.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And this was the thing that, like, we did talk to Pat Willems about where I was like, I

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: thought he was an Abercrombie model turned actor, like an Ashton Kutcher type.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he was a trained actor.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: From Minnesota.

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Who really worked at a video store who was, like, really into films.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He does have the classic thing of he was a football player.

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in the middle of high school, he gets an injury, can't play football anymore.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And some nice teacher is like, why don't you try theater?

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's so hot.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then, like, and then he gets so into theater.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And as you say, he, like, starts working in a rental store and sees, like, train spotting

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: or 12 monkeys or whatever.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, whoa.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of guys who have that story where it's like, yeah.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I just assumed he was a dumb, dumb.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he's clearly not.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And watching this a second time, I was locking in even more to the way he builds the tics

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: of his character, which I think he does incredibly well.

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: There are little things.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I started to, like, really try to lock into because the first Shyamalan watch of

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: any of his movies, it's what we're saying.

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that you're sitting there watching, trying to figure out what he's doing.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He is in this very rare position that is similar to I'm not saying in terms of ability,

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but, you know, legendary status or whatever.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's similar to Hitchcock.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's part of him putting himself in these movies and the movies being sold as from

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the mind of M. Night Shyamalan or whatever, where it's like every audience member is going

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: there thinking about what is M. Night trying to do?

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: There are very few people at that level.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And for horrors and thrillers, genres that are manipulative, that are all about the filmmaker

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to fuck with you.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The cameos are him always kind of being like, it's me.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Ain't I a stinker?

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I hear the guy filming the beach that makes you older, you know, on the cliff or whatever

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: the fuck it is.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The first time you're sitting there watching and trying to figure out what he's doing,

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: is there going to be a twist?

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: What would the twist be?

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Where is this going?

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What is the point of this?

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: All this second time, you're just sort of watching and actually trying to take apart

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the craft of what he's trying to do.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And two big things I noticed are almost all of the compositions in this movie are like

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 degrees off from being perfectly symmetrical.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Just a little bit.

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I gotta see it again.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially when most of the conversations that Hartnett has are shot from inside the

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation with him almost doing a demi sort of Sounds of the Lambs thing.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like head on.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But yet the eye lines are just a little bit off.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: The composition is just a little bit off.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: He's always kind of pretending.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: For a movie.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and also for a movie about a guy with obsessive compulsive disorder that is trying

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to place you in his head.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a sense of unease built from like, why can't she just move like one inch over

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: this way?

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And once I noticed it, I kept being like, he's actually not breaking this rule.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It is like consistent throughout the entire thing.

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Even when within a shot, the blocking changes and people move and land on very exact spots.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's never totally fucking right.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's getting more and more aggravating for him.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And the most kind of like correct any of his compositions get, I would say, in this movie

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: are the couple of times they cut to Hartnett, really shallow focus all the way in the

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: side of the frame, watching people's response to the violence he's just created.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Where he's kind of enjoying it.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also like, I get to just be a guy now.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm disappearing into the crowd.

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't about me.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about how everyone else is reacting to this thing.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And outside of that, it's just like, and to get back to the fucking dialogue question

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that always comes up with all these movies.

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't get it.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: His dialogue is so obvious.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there are a couple of reasons.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Part of it is like, it's classic genre thriller manipulation.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to get the information out.

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to give people the pieces so you can play with them.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He has a very stylized way of writing dialogue.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Just generally.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But here's another thing.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Anytime I hear people be like, well, no one talks like that.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It feels weird.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yeah.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's putting you in a constant state of unease.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It works so well in trap.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you for this exact reason.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You're already in the perspective of a guy who doesn't, who is kind of faking being a

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: normal guy.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So it makes sense that everything kind of clangs a little strangely.

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Not only is he faking being a normal guy, but this is a guy who is perplexed by the

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: way everyone else acts.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He has the line later where he's like, when I get the urge, it's because I come across

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: people.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I don't get it often.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I come across people who think they're whole.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And when he's talking to like the mom of the other girl, you feel the intensity in those

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: conversations as if you're like Jodie Foster talking to Hannibal Lecter.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like he's like, who is this fucking woman?

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What is this?

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: How do I have a fucking conversation with her?

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But then there is also the not because I'm not calling him my child.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on a serial killer.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But there is the the highly relatable feeling of just like him being like, I actually have

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: a work.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like he just got a text message from his boss.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Being like, hey, can you send me an email?

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and while he's rushing to do that, someone from his family life is like, hey,

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: our daughters.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's just like, like, you know, I'm in work mode right now.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: There is.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like starting to try to lock into the language of his tics and his twitches.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like a shoulder shake thing he does and like a one eyelid blink and like

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: little sort of facial convulsions when things like upset him.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that I think save until maybe the end with Alison Pill or some of the stuff

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: with Lady Raven in the living room.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The scene where the tics give him up the most is the long held shot of him watching his daughter

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: brought out on stage to dance with Lady Raven.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Or he's on the side of the stage.

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And he holds on that for a long time.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing part of the screen with the video of what's happening, but you're not really

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: cutting to her dance.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, is he freaking out because he's worrying that his plan for how to now that

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: they've gotten the backstage passes escape won't work?

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The second she settles in and is having fun on stage, all his tics go away.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like that's a really, really telling smart choice as an actor that it's like

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: everything with the daughter is real.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants his kid to have a good time.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what he says at the end.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was real.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He feels more anxiety over the idea.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: He's almost surprised at himself.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That his daughter is going to be embarrassed on stage.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That this is going to be a problem for her.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea of him fucking his daughter over in order to try to help himself escape.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's stressing him out.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Is a greater fear than getting caught.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to get out.

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not like he's not trying to get out any way he can.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But you're right.

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he does want her to have a good time and he doesn't want her to know that he's

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: a serial killer.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: There's also this element of not only does.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: The film is about a guy who's a serial killer.

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He is.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good time.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It is like the absolute best case scenario.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to a concert, what happens?

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is funny to think about this girl having the same best and worst day of her life.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, he wants her to have a crispy time.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: He wants her to keep it real crispy.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben, are you looking at Lady Raven merch?

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there merch out there?

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: There is merch as well as you could preorder the album on vinyl.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Where is this?

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it at trapstore.com?

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's sleekmusic.myshopify.com.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That it's all through.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's Seleka store exclusive.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So the premise of trap, yes, is Cooper, parent to Riley.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Two hit movies in this summer with a daughter named Riley, who everyone's worried about along

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: with Inside Out too.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Cooper, parent to Riley, is taking her to see her favorite songstress, Lady Raven, at the

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Philadelphia Arena of Entertainment.

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It has some like Japanese name or something.

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like wondering if it was a reference to someone.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's interesting.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It probably is.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and through happenstance, he notes that there are 4 billion police officers in fucking

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: riot gear at this concert.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes to, he makes a new pal, his pal Jamie.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The vendor of shirts.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And I am sorry for not crediting this person.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, his name is Jonathan Langdon.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What, one of the, uh, uh, uh, respected, uh, uh, film critics.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I almost want to say, I don't think it was Alison Bollemore, but someone tweeted or wrote

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in their review, people mocking this character.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And the, just like the guy who is basically there.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: M night.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He's really fun.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to just have him say everything.

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like just to a stranger.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what this is?

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a trap.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, this is fucking M night.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: This is him being like, can I tell you how fucking good the premise of my movie is?

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And it is really fucking good.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there is a deeper purpose to this, which is we are seeing how good Cooper is at

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: winning people over presenting himself as an ally and friend and as a reliable member

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: of society.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And like, that is how he can navigate through these spaces with more ease than say, you

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: know, the fucking child catcher from shitty, shitty bang, bang could if he was in this

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: arena.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably the most villainous character.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like, it's like if he was walking around, the cops would be like, let's get this

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: guy.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And heartened, everyone's kind of like, well, you seem like, I mean, if he's walking around

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: there, they're like, what the fuck's up with your nose?

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think that's, what's brilliant about Shyamalan casting this guy who as Shyamalan

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: put it night, put it to me like, you know, uh, he's was literally a possible

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Superman and or Batman.

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He supposedly met with Nolan on Batman.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Heartened has always been like, I was never offered that role.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We just like had a conversation.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Heartened was like, I blew it.

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I liked Nolan.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to be in a superhero movie.

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of was like, I'm not really interested in this.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I saw Batman begins and I kicked myself and then I finally got to work with him.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then like night, obviously it's just kind of like this guy has darkness to him.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And also is obviously kept repeating how drawn he was to just the fact that Hartnett quit

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Hollywood and moved to London and had a bunch of kids with his wife.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And very happily.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think there's a third thing he's doing with this character, which is like

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: directive three directive three.

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a guy who's like represents our obsession with like fucking true crime culture.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're like, why would this guy give this all up to a stranger?

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, cause for him, this is entertainment.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's exciting.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of delightful.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, did you guys know that it's inspired by a real thing?

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a real thing that happened, right?

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like someone did basically sting off at a concert.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like for one serial killer.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a football game.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Where they rounded up a bunch of people with outstanding warrants.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: A fake event.

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, right.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I feel like there are joke versions of that.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Like people showing up like, hey, is this the free speedboat convention?

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, where's my speedboat?

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Such a funny line.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I clocked the second time at the beginning.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That might even be ADR where they're walking into the arena and Hartnett goes, yeah, I'm

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: so glad they added the second afternoon concert after the first one sold out.

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, yeah, everything about this concert seems kind of fake and weird.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: A little off.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing of I think Shyamalan interrogating to some degree, I don't think he's like self

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: castigating, but interrogating like, why do I like making horror movies?

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Why do I like making people uncomfortable?

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, here's the response.

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a guy like this who's like, I fucking love this murder.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I watch all of his shit.

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I read about him.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I share facts with you?

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I got some photos if you want to see of his latest.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I would have been fucking obsessed with the butcher.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, if you are obsessed with the butcher in a true crimey way and you work at a stadium

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and then they're there at an arena and then they tell you like, hey, you want to you want

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to pull a shift at the trap of the butcher?

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you be into it?

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: A million percent.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You'd be this character.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the secret password that you say?

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Hamilton.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Hamilton.

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I just feel where people are like, I should I?

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: How serious should I take Amishama?

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, he cast Kid Cudi as an angry musician called The Thinker with long blonde hair who

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: demands specific.

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he's having fun.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Won't stop eye-fucking Josh Hart.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, another scene where people burst into applause at our...

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, as many people have figured out, he cast Hayley Mills because this is a movie

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: about trapping a parent.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: What?

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you recognize who the sort of criminal psychologist was or whatever?

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The sort of old British woman.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the profiler.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The profiler.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That is Hayley Mills.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The like original kind of one of the original like Disney stars who was the actress who

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: played the twins in The Parent Trap.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The original parent.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I go up to...

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Who has not worked much of late.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I go up to Griffin after the movie and I'm like, it's so funny, you know, Hayley Mills because

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: it's having her trap a parent.

[01:14:12] Yeah.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like...

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, what?

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole fucking reason he did that.

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean...

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm sitting there being like, why did he cast her?

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantasy did the math on their big picture episode and said he thinks this is the first

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: American studio film she has been in in 60 years.

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds plausible.

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: She's done TV.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't really...

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: She's done a lot of stuff in England.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: She's done some English stuff.

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is an odd choice until you're just like, he thought it was funny to hire the

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: girl from The Parent Trap to make a movie called Trap where she has to trap up there.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: He would never say that explicitly because I think you wouldn't want to be rude because

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: she's honestly great in the film.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And she has been in a lot of like very weird horror movies.

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Like isn't the Twisted Nerve is one that she's in?

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's an old one.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a very controversial but fun, cool movie.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Roy Bolting movie.

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a British movie.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, obviously like that's where the idea comes from.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so when I first, when he first shows me just the first chunk of the movie in his

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: little screening room.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Not his big screening room in his house.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: His little, his editing screening room basically.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: The credits are done and they're real.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like Hartnett, Donahue, sure that's the girl out, Shyamalan, Salika Knight Shyamalan,

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: cool.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it says Hayley Mills and I'm like, is it a different Hayley Mills?

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, is there someone else?

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't make the Parent Trap connection in my head or anything.

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I, that was the one, I was just like, Hayley Mills?

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Initially, I thought she might be playing his mom.

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Same.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: In the, you know, but obviously that's kind of almost a non-speaking role.

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: The, the visions of his mother.

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: She only talks like one time at the end there.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I also think, and I, I wasn't watching this with enough discipline to like make sure this

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: 100% checks out.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Hayley Mills, maybe you don't see her speaking on camera until the Alison Pill scene.

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's almost always, you're seeing him see her or he's hearing her.

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: He's hearing her.

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you're seeing her from behind as she talks to people.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: She talks a couple times.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I think she talks.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that's true.

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You've seen the movie twice.

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I've only seen it once.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: She's definitely like around for much of the movie and we keep kind of clocking that

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: she's around.

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I just kept clocking that her dialogue was often, if not always often separated from her

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: visual.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Once he has this device, if he can hear her in his ear or he can eavesdrop in on conversations

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: or whatever it is.

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously the other thing that I didn't really, I go into this movie thinking Salika, yes,

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: is in the film, but she is just performing music on stage and she's really just dressing

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: for this.

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I did not know she was going to be pulled into the action and kind of be the protagonist

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: for a little chunk of it.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Can we talk about this?

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: She has eyes the size of globes.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So the camera does love her.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say like, you know, like more than anything else, like her looking down the camera.

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I do not think she is bad in this.

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't either.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I've seen some people saying she's bad and I don't agree.

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she's great.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge ask.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_03]: She's fine.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It is like the whole last act of the movie really has to kind of pin on this performance,

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: which is.

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I would not say the whole last act because she then she goes out and there's 15 more

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: minutes.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, sure.

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the movie isn't handed back to Hartnett.

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: There is 20 minutes.

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a chunk where you're like, shit, we're with Lady Raven.

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: She's driving the action.

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And another thing I think I clocked is when she locks herself in the bathroom with the

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: phone.

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the first time in the movie we actually leave Hartnett's side.

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much as far as I can think of.

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And Ben, you were saying like, I'm rooting for him.

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: She's taking over the movie.

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sitting here and I'm watching and wondering when is he going to switch it?

[01:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like at some point he has to make us turn on the guy.

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the moment.

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: She has to fucking be the pivot point.

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big ass.

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's little shit that I just think it's like it's almost not even about acting

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: ability.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's obviously not primarily an actress by trade.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, not at all.

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is that thing of like, I think the songs are like totally work.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's good at performing them on stage.

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Even the difference of like when she is doing the banter on stage, like there is an energy

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: people have when they are regularly performing for hundreds of thousands of people in the

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: same way that people who are at a certain level of fame just kind of like vibrate and

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: glow.

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That is hard to act.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And like some of that aura of like, oh, my God, the star persona here doesn't totally

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: come across.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get to scenes that are like very emotionally heightened where she has to do

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: complicated things and she's fine.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a version of this where it's like if he casts a former Disney Channel star who's

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: able to handle the dramatic stuff at the end, does it like heighten the movie if they

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: can like really nail some of those scenes more?

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, from our fucking perspective, who we are in this podcast and the level of

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: movie dorks we are, this movie is 80,000 times more interesting with it being her.

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It makes it the most fascinating text.

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: She gives a speech about how she wrote a song about forgiving her father.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And right.

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And a moment then when she says, and if you have been able to let go of a similar sort

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: of resentment in your life, hold up your phone.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And Hartnett looks at his daughter doing that and is perplexed.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It is the other moment in the movie where he maybe looks the most terrified.

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, his primary thing when I say like, I'm not sure.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, well, you know, why Philadelphia?

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Why have you ever stayed here?

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's like, I always wanted to be home in time for dinner.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I always wanted to be with my kids.

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then I, I talked to, um, Ishana and Salika together.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they both hopped on Zoom and.

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: They live together?

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_02]: As I'm telling, I'm about to tell you, they both hop on Zoom and Sali, first Salika was

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: there for a bit and she's chatting to me and then Ishana joins and Ishana's like, Ishana,

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: are you, are you at home?

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And Ishana's like, yeah, where are you?

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, I'm at home too.

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We're both home.

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, their house is so big.

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But they were also like, they were also kind of like, oh great.

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Now we can hang out.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like there was a cuteness to it.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: There was an also like, we grew up in a gigantic house, but, um, there was just sort of like,

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: it's, it's an apartment together.

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they do.

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But the New York times, there's a sweet, Esther did a piece on the, on the Shyamalan girls,

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: which you can read Esther Zuckerman.

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: A great Esther Zuckerman.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, it sounds like he was an intense parent in some ways.

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the, the thing I think Salika told me of like, if you're going to watch the little

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: mermaid when you're like six years old, he's like, we're turning the lights off.

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You're sitting still.

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We're finishing the film.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to analyze this from a viewpoint of story construction.

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about it afterwards.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not like flipping through cable and like, oh, little mermaid is on or, you know,

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like, no, no, no.

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a serious art.

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, also so much of Shyamalan's identity is like, I am like the child of like immigrants

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: who like put me into a Catholic school despite not being Catholic because it was the private

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: school with only Hindu boy at his best education.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were like doctor or lawyer.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You get to you have the freedom to choose between the two options.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And he locks into the idea of being a filmmaker very resolutely at a very young age and has

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to be so headstrong to push past their expectations and disappointment, which says they were very

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: baffled by how you get to six cents by twenty nine.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it's like that's carried on to him in an interesting way with three daughters

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: who are creative, who he's clearly supported as much as anyone could support their daughter.

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been.

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's an intensity, I think.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he would be the first to admit that he yes, he's had that sort of like the arts

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: are important and they matter to me very much and they must matter to you, too.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yes, you'll be learning the piano at a young age.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll be watching movies.

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be discussing art as if it is trying to put them on the pipeline to be a doctor

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: or a lawyer.

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: They are all interested in the arts.

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And he is incredibly proud of them and talks about them all the time.

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And every single like I talked to Josh Hartnett.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to Bryce Howard about which was who which was a blast.

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I talked to Mike DeLuca, you know, at Warner Brothers and they're always just

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: like immediately like, aren't his kids great?

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, have you met his kids?

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like it's clear that they are not.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: They're always around.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And the way Bryce put it was like they were on set always, you know, like it's a family

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: thing.

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, honestly, when he called me to talk about the village, I thought he was calling me

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to ask about what's it like to be a director raising a kid like you grew up on sets.

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: What should you know?

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Bryce was just like I thought he wanted advice.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think he wanted me to be in a movie.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Wild.

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: She'd never been in a movie.

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I want them to work together again.

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I do, too.

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for sure.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: She said she would.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they've done two movies together, obviously.

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It would.

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would benefit both of them without being rude.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be so cool for them to do a movie together, Bryce and Knight, and

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: for it to rock.

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be so cool.

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: As much as I enjoy multiple performances given, she's never been better than she was in the

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: village.

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you saw her in the village, you were like, this is one of the major new stars.

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen it, but is she good in Manderley?

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: That's an impossible question.

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: She's totally good given especially that situation.

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: This situation must have been really overwhelming for a really young new actor.

[01:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you're replacing Nicole Kidman on Lars von Trier's set and he's, you know, and

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a Dogville set.

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But this time he's tackling race in America.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I just can't fathom.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: She's good in it.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really.

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man.

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That question is like asking, is Steve-O good at hammering a board into his forehead

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: with like a rusty nail?

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, in the sense that he can take it.

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he survives.

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: He survives.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Bryce Howard was a delight to talk to.

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to her in this very office because it was right after a podcast.

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: On a Zoom.

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: On a Zoom.

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I thought she was here.

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You invited her here onto your fucking Mets podcast.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to be so angry.

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, she was really, really, really nice.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Like everyone I talked to was obviously very lovely and cordial.

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But she had genuine kind of like, I can talk all day.

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, this is fun.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He's great.

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of enthusiasm is amazing.

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But I wonder if I've been like, great, let's keep talking.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, let's talk about Spider-Man.

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll be like, Manderley, fond memories.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I wonder if I could have stopped her in her tracks with Manderley.

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's the one where she's like, oh, I don't know if I want to talk about Manderley.

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not.

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she'd be like, oh, that was so fun.

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: There was tape on the floor.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And they never got to make the third one.

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That must have driven her crazy.

[01:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Washington, right?

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Was the name of the final.

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he should make it.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Except he's suffering from like medical issues now, right?

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought someone said he was like, he had Parkinson's and he's not going to direct again.

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And then someone else was like, no, he's fine.

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He is making another movie.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he said like, I'm going to take a break, but I can work with the symptoms.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so maybe he'll make another movie.

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of that going around these days, unfortunately.

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, his relationship to his children is clearly very close.

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But this does kind of.

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it feels like the confession of someone being like, I've always had my other self.

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And like, how do I reconcile these things?

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Not to keep quoting Big Picture, which I obviously listen to rabidly.

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But Sean interviewed the In a Violent Nature guy.

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And Phenasy had a.

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Scary is his name.

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Mr. Scary.

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What is his name?

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: His name is Chris Nash.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Phenasy like kicked off with an incredibly long question.

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That was just about like, I'm just interested in the psychology of what makes someone want

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to make a film this nasty.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You seem like a well-adjusted guy.

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: What is it in terms of like being able to like release some part of your like psyche?

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Like is this processing something that scares you?

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it something deep inside of you?

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think about this a lot as someone who watches these movies and I don't feel

[01:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: violent.

[01:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But why do I love watching insane violence?

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And why have I loved that since I was a child?

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And the guy just responded like, I really try to not interrogate that.

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And he wasn't being cagey.

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was just like, honestly, Sean, you're thinking about this art of the night.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, with all due respect, if I try to like pull apart that ball, I'm never going

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: to be able to like put myself back together.

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think about it.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Which I think is true of a lot of filmmakers where you you'll see them being interviewed

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and someone will pose a question and they'll be like, oh, that does make sense.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I never thought about it that way.

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You've realized something that I was unconsciously doing.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: This movie is Sean Lunt thinking about it.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's thinking about with a sense of guilt of like, why am I a monster?

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: No, because primarily his feeling is certainly I want to entertain people.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not right.

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is this compulsion?

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: To tear my chest open.

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: To scare people.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Which he's doing in a way that is not malicious, but it is a weird impulse to have.

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You know?

[01:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Fair point.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: To be a little stinker.

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And how does that coexist with me just like caring more than anything about protecting

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: my daughters?

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben, did you like Trap?

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't heard from Ben, actually.

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: What was your...

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you repeat your line you said when we were in the lobby?

[01:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[01:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You said it was Trap-a-do.

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Trap-a-dee-doop-a-dee-doop.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Five Traps Out of Traps.

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The trappiest movie of the year.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You said something afterwards.

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll say it if you don't remember that I thought was very good.

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You said what I love about that is that feels like the kind of movie I would have seen

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: five times on TNT.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And no one else makes that anymore.

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a fun, entertaining movie that I didn't have to like think really hard about.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what we'll be doing for you.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Is thinking way too hard about this fun, entertaining movie.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And making people angry.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking yesterday with a friend of ours before we went to see it.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, the struggle with it is the thing I respect is he was aiming for three.

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And he nailed a three-star movie versus like some of the shit like old and Knock at the

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Cabin that he's done recently.

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Even Glass where it's like he's trying weird shit.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And some of it works more than others.

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Glass is, I think, by far his riskiest, biggest swing.

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Which he got to make because Split had been so huge and he has big actors and all that.

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Glass is a borderline antagonistic movie.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas like, as he told me, like he was like, look, my sweet spot is hour 45.

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I really concentrate on that.

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Glass is two hours 10.

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Glass kind of breaks a lot of his rules, I feel like.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is fine.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Glass is fascinating.

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy it exists.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that it exists.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And it did make money, but it probably pissed people off the most of his recent stuff.

[01:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's another hit that made people furious.

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think he'll be doing anything that ambitious again.

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he seems to be more back in the right stripped down genre stuff.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what's up next?

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He says he has his next four movies planned.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Four!

[01:28:18] [SPEAKER_03]: My fucking guy.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to keep doing this podcast for a long ass time, aren't we?

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically like 18 months like clockwork.

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The way he puts it to me is like, he can't think too much about the next projects while

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: he's working or he's writing because he like, you know, he'll get distracted.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So he writes, he writes, he writes.

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next thing starts bubbling up and he'll have a notebook.

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But like he knows what he wants the next few things to be.

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I rules.

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're bubbling away.

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And then suddenly once this is done, he locks into the next thing and gets going again.

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I assume we'll just he's got this deal at Warner Brothers now.

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So he'll be like, this is my thing.

[01:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to get this person and off they'll go.

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: The deal is once again, he self finances and Warner Brothers is committed to negative pickup

[01:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: once the production is done, which is to say they basically function as totally independent

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: self-financed productions that Warner Brothers has promised they will buy the minute it stops

[01:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: being an independent production.

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And like I talked to Michael DeLuca, which was kind of a cool movie nerd moment for me.

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Just like this is a guy who fucking made Boogie Nights happen and shit.

[01:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, wrote fucking in the mouth of madness.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And has a ton of, you know, got a blowjob on a couch.

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you had a party in front of people.

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of an notorious story.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, go on.

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I was going to say.

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a lot of Hollywood stories.

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was truly like I fucking was.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I was at New Line when The Sixth Sense came up.

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted that script so goddamn bad.

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I will never forget reading that spec script.

[01:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, when you got to the end and you were like, oh, my God, you know, and like

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: then Disney got it and I was so upset.

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have wanted him ever since.

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the quote you got out of him in your piece was something like you read a lot

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of great spec scripts, but there's only one six sense.

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Like there was the feeling of like, I'm never going to have this moment again of just being

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: like, who the fuck is this and what is this script and where did this come from?

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: One thing I want to bring up is going back to this whole like you find yourself rooting

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: for and identifying with the protagonist.

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of don't like going to concerts.

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't either.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't either.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a what's about it.

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I was very locked into that part of the movie of like this environment.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't like I don't like crowds like that.

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm all like you like going to the movies.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I love going to the movies.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not 20,000 people.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_03]: There's also like, OK, I I've only been to two big concerts.

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you really have never in your life.

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_03]: In my life.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What were they?

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I went to see Robin at Madison Square Garden.

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds fun.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Dancing with yourself.

[01:30:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was a really fun night.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Had a great time.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And I went to see Paul McCartney at MetLife.

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I was genuinely asking, did you dance with yourself at the Robin concert?

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I danced with like 20,000 other people.

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then on the subway platform afterwards, people put the music on and we all were dancing.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It was great.

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Seeing Paul McCartney is kind of like that's kind of like a lovely experience because like

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: he goes forever and the crowd is multigenerational and it's not as hyped up.

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: The concert itself was wonderful.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like the fucking MetLife Stadium.

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a nightmare.

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a fucking nightmare.

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: We chose to drive there.

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that was a mistake.

[01:31:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Why did we do that?

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: For a concert that starts at 7 p.m., which means we tried to leave at 445 to beat the

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: traffic getting out of Manhattan on a Friday.

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_03]: We witnessed an accident happen while getting into the Lincoln Tunnel.

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know how long it took us to get back to Brooklyn?

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Four hours.

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Four fucking hours.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: David, well done.

[01:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Going to the MetLife is a crazy thing to do.

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Getting home from a big concert is one of the most stressful.

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like leaving a concert is one of the most stressful experiences that I can hear that story.

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The analogy I was thinking of is going to a major concert at any venue of size to me is

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: very similar to going to the airport.

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Where I'm like, I know why I'm doing this.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, there is an ultimate thing here that I think is worth the effort.

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But God, am I stressed about getting there, getting in, making my way around, getting out.

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Getting in is one thing.

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_03]: If it's getting out, nightmare.

[01:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like...

[01:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's at like the Barclays Center and it's like, okay, I'll take the subway.

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be in a long line.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But it won't be so bad.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's in MetLife, which to be clear to, you know, in listeners, it's in New Jersey.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not even on a...

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how the fuck we're going to do the World Cup.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what do you mean we're going to do it?

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have to.

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have to go.

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: David, we didn't tell you.

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We actually did.

[01:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, is Blank Check hosting the World Cup?

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We are.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He bought the...

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Here?

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Here.

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the problem.

[01:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't even have windows.

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_03]: March Madness.

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: We are now in.

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They made us a really good offer.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, we have a hell of a loan to pay off.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You've missed a lot of stuff.

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Ben, what's...

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Be Pro Concert.

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like you were tearing your hair out.

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Listen to us whine.

[01:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you brought up Barclays.

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You go to sporting events.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Those are big events with a lot of people.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Dealed with hooligans.

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: True.

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I do.

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Hooliganism.

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You can kind of get in and out pretty quick.

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I...

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There are no real fans who go to the Barclays Center.

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be real.

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, hey, actually, let me...

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Real fans of Avatar when we went to see Turok the first flight.

[01:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we did do that.

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you that much.

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie wasn't there for that, sadly.

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I must not.

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There were only 10 other people.

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I go to...

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And we went to a Nets game, the three of us.

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We did.

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Which was a little more of the experience.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of Nets games where you're like, oh, people are just sort of here to have

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: a good time.

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't really care.

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to a Liberty game recently.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, was that crazy?

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: They got that elephant who twerks.

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: She...

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Ellie is the coolest.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Ellie, the mascot of the New York Liberty.

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: David was blowing up the fucking blank show text thread with shit about Ellie.

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, Ellie rocks.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: She does this dance where she comes out.

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Griff, you would love this.

[01:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's got the dancers around her.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's an elephant.

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: No, you send pics.

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Where she stamps her feet and then everyone falls down like she's rocked, you know, because

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: she's so big.

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And does everyone go along with it?

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It rocks.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: She's so cool.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, I went to Liberty game and just generally, I was like, I don't think I've ever seen the

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Barclays Center this hyped.

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like people like...

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to go to a Liberty game.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Screaming for this team who are really good.

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Does Ellie like Twin Peaks The Return?

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We maybe get her on one of those episodes?

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: No, because normally like Nets...

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_03]: There are no real Brooklyn Nets fans.

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on.

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Griff, you would love Ellie.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: She's doing bits.

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: She has two handlers or, you know, people with her.

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And when like they were mad about a foul call, she started doing this thing where she

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: was pretending to faint and they were like fanning her with like a big handkerchief.

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It was so funny.

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds fucking great.

[01:34:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me when she has a one hour special and I don't have to watch fucking basketball to

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: get to the Ellie bits.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Griffin's a huge sexist.

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Griffin hates women's sports.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He hates to see women succeed.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed I just said basketball.

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Ellie's got some moves.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm watching some footage.

[01:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: My brother Jamesy had a fucking Space Jam CD-ROM that was similar to like NBA Jam or whatever.

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Like a video game.

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a CD-ROM game.

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It was played on the computer where you did not have a console in the home.

[01:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like Space Jam video game.

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Great.

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Looney Tunes.

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you watch it and the game is mostly you just playing basketball as the Looney Tunes.

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: How dare a Space Jam game involve playing basketball?

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But then if you play it during the halftime intermission, there were mini games where it's

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: like Daffy's got to get the water bottle with Michael's special stuff in it.

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's your time to shine.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: The way you're describing Ellie feels like that.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You wake up and you're like, hey!

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd be like, okay, let me sit down now.

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know, I feel like I think I maybe like Trap more than you because-

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It did grow from you on a second.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't give movie star ratings on Letterboxd anymore because I don't want people to get

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: bad at me.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a full errand, yeah.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But I would have given it three and a half stars in a heart, which I think in a way is

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_03]: like more, you know, it's about pure pleasure for me.

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That is exactly where I am right now.

[01:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I've turned heart or no heart into a binary do I like it.

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's no longer like I need to love it or it needs to be great.

[01:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I basically give nothing a star rating because-

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I saw this happen when you fucking logged me, Joe Black, right?

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I saw a bunch of people going like, wait, he put Mitchell Black half a star higher than

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: this?

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: He put it only half a star below this?

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it when people do that.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me really happy.

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm like, any star rating I could give to Trap then becomes this thing that is always

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the M. Night argument of like, how can you forgive all of his sloppiness when other directors,

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you would rake them over the coals for doing the same thing?

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[01:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: David's throwing up a middle finger.

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck you.

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like-

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I can do whatever I want.

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Movies are judged on different terms relative to what they're trying to do.

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: My favorite thing though is people obsessing over my star rating.

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Glad you love it.

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Because they'll be like, but I don't understand.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He gave this three and a half stars.

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you search in his archive, he gave this.

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like, relax.

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having fun.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a good time.

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I would have gone up to four, four and a half stars.

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: If Lady Raven was Ellie the Elephant.

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know this Ellie the Elephant concert we're all at?

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually a big trap.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So the plot of Trap.

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, yeah.

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to also answer your question.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very good point.

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: About concerts.

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Defending concerts.

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I've aged out.

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say at this point of going to like festivals.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But just to use the festival.

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Festival, I would never do.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I did that for a teenager.

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you go to the Warped Tour?

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Oz Fest?

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Not Oz Fest.

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Bonnaroo, a bunch of times.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to Glastonbury.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to the British ones.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, cool.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't like all the mud.

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not a good mud.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the whole thing about mud.

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's port-a-potties.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And if the port-a-potties by like day three are really gnarly.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone sucks.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone is shitting in the woods.

[01:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not good.

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: What I do like about large concerts is that they are inside.

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a bathroom there.

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to see Beck, then Radiohead.

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Back to back.

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That was the cool shit.

[01:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You get to just see.

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to see Mars Volta.

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to see so much incredible stuff.

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: In just three days.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So many incredible bands and artists.

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just.

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, it's gross and there's people everywhere, but it's worth it if you really love seeing

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_01]: live music.

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I had the stamina for that stuff as a teen and I went to lots of shows and right.

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: There's just some point I hit that I think a lot of people hit in their 20s where you're

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of like, I don't really like the experience.

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I hate standing.

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like people.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, I'm a butcher.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a butcher.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just a butcher.

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to check my murder app.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to go to the bathroom to check my murder app.

[01:38:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Can I check my fucking murder app?

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so hard to get to the bathroom to open your murder app.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Can I tell you guys something really gross?

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought when we see him in the toilet stall, I thought he was going to start jerking off.

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That would have been the kind of thing that if M. Night Shyamalan did that, I would have

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: been flattered gas.

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That is not his kind of material.

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: He's not a sexual filmmaker.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Not especially.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like to.

[01:39:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is the thing that does not to get all like red letter media, but about like

[01:39:19] [SPEAKER_03]: serial killers and movies.

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_03]: The fact that it was like a man in the basement doesn't ring true to me.

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Really?

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't strike me as a sex thing.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a control thing.

[01:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: He is happiest when he folds that napkin.

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And when he when he looks at the guy in there, he's like, yeah, good.

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are serial killers?

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are heterosexual serial killers who kill men?

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it sounds like you're more of an expert in this field than I know.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But you're kind of you're raising some interesting points.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Think about it.

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I can't think about it because I don't care about serial.

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is why I am the merch guy.

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't care, man.

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I bet like you're saying like you're sort of your Dahmers, your Gacy's, your Bundy's.

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: They killed men, but there was a sexual element to it.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: OK.

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm just trying to think of.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Your point is that there is often a sexually charged element with serial killers to kill

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: at scale.

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But isn't it one of those things that when then you Google Jesus, this wonderful Wikipedia

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: article that I'm seeing was written by Marie Barty called list of serial killers by number

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of victims.

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you're seeing this long list of names that you don't recognize.

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And then once in a while you're like, oh, like the BTK guy.

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I know him.

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But like largely it's other.

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: BTK mostly killed women.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But he did.

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like Zodiac.

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: There are like guys are collateral damage.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But there is a psychosexual element that I'm just saying if Brian De Palma had made this

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: movie, that would have been there.

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And because M. Night Shyamalan made it.

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_03]: This was a movie about how much he loves his daughter.

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, this movie is getting a lot of Brian De Palma comparisons.

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Snake Eyes, I think, is an obvious one, which is a fine comparison for critics to make.

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure it's one that Shyamalan would be that interested by.

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: They're just different guys working in some sort of similar fields.

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say when I talked to Josh Hartnett, he said that he had a very specific serial

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: killer in mind for his performance, but he would not tell me who because he didn't

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: want to spoil the movie for me.

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, my guess was possibly BTK in terms of like the family man who once they show up

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: one day, he's like, ah, well, I see you found me like, OK, I must have done something wrong

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: finally.

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But like and his family are like, what?

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, well, no, he was really awful to them, but, you know, still surprised.

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know if that was the case.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But he said that he and Knight kind of fought over the direct inspiration.

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And came to sort of an understanding of what this guy's deal was.

[01:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that all of the third act Shyamalan movies are going to have a similar

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_00]: level of like reclamation as full board classics.

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But we've already brought up both Carpenter and De Palma, whose 80s were very similar in

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: a certain way where they made a lot of movies, many of them successful, some of them unsuccessful.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But like you read and we did this with Carpenter, you read the critics at the time and they were

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: like kind of flummoxed.

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: There was this feeling of like Halloween being his sixth sense and people being like, why

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: can't you go back to this?

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you making trash?

[01:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: These movies are silly.

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: These performances are overcranked.

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The plots are outlandish.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen to our episodes.

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like he was never greeted with open arms by critics.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like when his movies came out.

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like through people watching the movies five times on TNT, you start to get

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: onto the wavelength of like this is his deliberate world he's building.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what he likes to play in.

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, like my pushback on Carpenter as a comparison point for like choosing to

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: go from highbrow to lowbrow is that like Shyamalan makes this movie that on paper Sixth

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Sense is not an obvious best picture candidate.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It comes out in August.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: No, certainly not.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge hit.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It basically kickstarts this wave that we've talked about with ARP.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We were like trying to pin down like what is this wave of 2000 sort of like big budget

[01:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: prestige supernatural.

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the others.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And what lies beneath and big movie stars were suddenly horror wasn't beneath these

[01:43:18] [SPEAKER_00]: filmmakers, but only within a certain strip.

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was this kind of like haunted relationship kind of thing that people suddenly

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_00]: were willing to make that were taken seriously by Oscars or making crazy amounts of money

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: or whatever it is.

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like that sort of runs its course at the same time that people get tired of the

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: fucking Shyamalan thing.

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The village obviously is when people get tired of it.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_02]: That movie still does well, but that's when people turned on.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But that is the movie where he's clearly like, I'm trying to elevate this to high art.

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This film is like very kind of precious in its construction and style.

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But what is what is the dominant genre or subgenre at the time?

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it torture porn and then found footage?

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say that stuff is is just starting up when the village because the village is

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_02]: 04 and Saw is 04 right there.

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's sort of like you're almost seeing like, you know, by the time he makes

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the happening and then the other makes happening four years later.

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's almost a response to like, I need to make an R rated movie.

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I feel like in the village is still it is.

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question, actually, like horror movies of the early 2000s.

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's this big thing.

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so much of the legacy of Shyamalan is the like Time magazine cover him getting tagged

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_00]: with this.

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like coming up and like slashers are kind of going down again.

[01:44:33] [SPEAKER_00]: There is this strategic decision when he makes the visit of like, I'm just making a fun little

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: nasty movie.

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And even a thing we talked about on our happening episode was when he was promoting the happening.

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, look, my goal was to make the greatest B movie of all time.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I did it like there was an arrogance to him sort of presenting it as I'm trying to

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: make a movie that's trashy, but I'm making it for 80 million dollars.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we talk about that on that episode, too, because that's sort of it's like the George

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Lucas thing where they're like, well, I don't care if you didn't like it because it's not

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: meant for you.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's meant to be fun.

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's meant to be silly.

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's meant to be for kids.

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's meant to be a B movie.

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like he made the strategic pivot of like I'm choosing to recalibrate the way

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: people think of me.

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to continue to stay in this sort of silo and pitch movies that come out like,

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, like Carpenter was always unpretentious about how he viewed his career and didn't want

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_00]: to go chasing the obvious kind of like, you know, he's thrown so many strays at like

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Cronenberg, like, you know, chasing after some sense of like art, art, highfalutin

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_02]: right.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, I just like making genre movies.

[01:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: He actually just likes playing Halo and fucking smoking blunts.

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But he never had the moment that Shyamalan did where people are like, are you the greatest

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: in Hollywood right now?

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But here's the other difference.

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Now Shyamalan is like, well, what I want to do is make original non-IP grounded, sort

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: of somewhat star driven, but not crazily genre films, largely presented kind of for adults

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_02]: with with more with like a big premise.

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And Hollywood's like, that's interesting.

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Did we used to make those?

[01:46:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Did we ever offer those to audiences?

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And the audience is just like, yes, food, please, please give me, give me, give me.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like he is now this like savior of cinema just because he's like, yeah, I want

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to not make superhero movies and have them be in theaters.

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: My dad was like, I guess the Shyamalan movie isn't connecting after the weekend box office.

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, he's already basically black.

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's how he put it to me.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like first weekend.

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the block.

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: He's made his model in a way where it's like and then the rest of the money, you know,

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: goes right back to blinding edge.

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, yeah, it's like, you know, the range of like this movie is going to open somewhere

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: between 17 and 22.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like if it opened to 22, people would have been happier in his camp.

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But that movie opening 17 is like fucking work.

[01:46:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to make its money back.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's already good.

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: What before?

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I know we've already been going for a while, but I do want to talk about

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Allison.

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about Allison Pell and what I think is a phenomenal performance.

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we do it now, let's let's move through trap a little linearly just so we don't miss

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: anything.

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so obviously, right.

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_02]: First song in the movie, him with Riley in the car getting there.

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: He's silly dad.

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what do the kids say now?

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: His kid is it's kind of an amazing performance because you can really tell like she's very

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: sincere about Lady Raven.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's that perfect age thing, too.

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what is she supposed to be like 12 or whatever of like she's a little shy about her

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: passions, but also very sincere in them.

[01:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And that whatever drama happened in school or her being excluded on social media or right

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: like that shit has wounded her so deeply.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But we're just we're moving on.

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not the end of the world.

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of classical like the group of girls just decided they don't like you anymore.

[01:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they all post that they're hanging out and right.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_02]: She can see it or whatever.

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So slow.

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the only real thing in the first few minutes.

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Is you just note how meticulous Cooper is with the napkins and the right.

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The food and.

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Concert starts.

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Cooper gets up from his seat from this concert.

[01:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: What, like 14 times?

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: How many?

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He's always fucking like, hey, I forgot one more thing.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to go again.

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Left my Visa card with the merch guy.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Right guy.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, like and first he goes to the bathroom.

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He sees that vision of his mother, but checks the phone.

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he takes her to the merch stand and then he learns the butcher thing.

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It takes a little while.

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Correct.

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like.

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I.

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_03]: He encounters the mom.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_03]: The other girls.

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There's drama with Riley and her school friends where they've kind of excluded her face to

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_00]: face with those girls.

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We never see him.

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's some moment where he goes like she's like, I made friends with the girl

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_00]: sitting next to me.

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's he feels a sense of comfort.

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, one little moment in this part that we're talking about that I think is so funny is when

[01:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: he pushes the drunk girl down the stairs.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Twice in this movie.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a perfectly placed woman close to fainting.

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Or passing out.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Strung out in some way.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, also late.

[01:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: The Lady Raven concert in the middle of the day doesn't seem like the kind of concert

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you get fucked up during.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_01]: One person decided to.

[01:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is the kind of shit.

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: There's always one person who fucked up at a concert.

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Especially in a Lady Raven concert.

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is the shit.

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to like fight back against this where people go like this movie is bad

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and you cannot convince me it's not bad because this makes no sense.

[01:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are 20 things in this movie that make no sense.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't care.

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I laugh and I go, oh, funny.

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so let's get the action.

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's another one.

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a.

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_00]: At some point when the daughter goes out with him and he's doing the laps.

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, now is a good time because it's the intermission.

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, there's no fucking intermission at concerts.

[01:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what?

[01:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there should be.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also was like.

[01:49:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be nice.

[01:49:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Watching it the second time.

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, that line could be like, oh, yeah, this is where they let the dancers do the

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_00]: solo and she changes outfits.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm cool to do a lap now.

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you could explain why it's the part she doesn't care about.

[01:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But to act like it's a Broadway show is so weird.

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I obviously my fundamental thing is like, I don't care.

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you need.

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my ways to kind of write to shift this into the bone.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just trying to get the information across.

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, maybe he's like me and that he hates concerts.

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't go to them.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's just making it up.

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_03]: He's just making it up.

[01:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first chunk is him with his daughter.

[01:50:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What, Ben, you're mad?

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I just I'm sort of sighing to myself because I find people that go into watching movies

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: or just any kind of like storytelling and they're just like, that's not fucking real.

[01:50:29] [SPEAKER_01]: That would never fucking happen.

[01:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, how can you enjoy anything?

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I would agree.

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: If you go in with that attitude.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so boring.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I find it so boring to be that kind of person.

[01:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben, just reading from my manifesto.

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I love this.

[01:50:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You're speaking my heart.

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just it's like and I have had people text me.

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen it yet?

[01:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Gesturing to respond.

[01:50:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've been like waiting to get back to them because like their take was just basically

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: like, was he playing a fucking joke on us?

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you?

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you?

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Am I supposed to believe this?

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, it's a fucking story.

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a silly little movie that's entertaining.

[01:51:03] [SPEAKER_03]: There are some tweets that were like, this is the worst movie I've seen all 37 years of

[01:51:07] [SPEAKER_03]: my life.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, interesting.

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Congrats on seeing your first movie.

[01:51:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That is crazy.

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: My response to that.

[01:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's, you know, there's a level of craft and pleasure in this film that can't

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: all be Harold.

[01:51:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So here's a moment.

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I put a pin in earlier.

[01:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:51:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Later in the film, not to jump ahead, but there's when we see the footage of him pulling

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the guy into the van.

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_00]: When we saw it opening night.

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It got a huge laugh from the audience.

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There's something kind of comical of the timing.

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of a like, yoink to how quickly the guy disappears.

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a deliberate, deliberate humor.

[01:51:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is a as as someone who spent years doing wildly unsuccessful comedy for audiences

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that often didn't really want to be there in bar basements and such.

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:51:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And Ben, I know you can relate to this as well.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: At certain points, you start to like be able to catalog the different types of laughs that

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you can feel of like, that's the good kind of laugh.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the bad kind of laugh.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the right kind of silence of they're paying attention.

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the silence of them being bored.

[01:52:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always feeling that very acutely when I watch Shyamalan movies of like, how much

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_00]: does the audience seem to be on his side versus like responding as if they're on their

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_00]: own conversation?

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And it felt like the tenor of the laugh to that was them being like, this movie's silly.

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We're supposed to take this seriously.

[01:52:28] [SPEAKER_00]: This is goofy.

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: This assumption that he's trying to do something and failing and I'm laughing and it's not.

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Clearly, they weren't paying attention to all of his social media.

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Where he said, I was having so much fun writing this.

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I was giggling to myself.

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little stinker.

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_00]: When Ben and I watched it last night, that moment played to dead silence and I found it

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_00]: very eerie.

[01:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no.

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It felt actually scary and no one responded to it at all.

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there were other things people laughed at in a way last night that felt like you think

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_00]: you're better than the movie.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, right.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a sort of judgmental laugh.

[01:53:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:53:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think back to Long Legs, a film that I think is tremendously good.

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: What if a man had long legs?

[01:53:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.

[01:53:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I completely disagree with you there.

[01:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So many do.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Long Legs is good.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It has become very divisive and has had like a rapid almost M. Night cycle.

[01:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So similar to M. Night.

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Just people being like, fuck off with this.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you know, unconvincing in every way.

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Why this?

[01:53:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Why this?

[01:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And so much of it is too that like that movie had this incredible, very short hype cycle

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in a way.

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_00]: There's all this elusive marketing, but then no one really sees it until like two weeks

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_00]: before it comes out and had just enough time to crest and have this surprise opening

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: weekend.

[01:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It has held surprisingly well.

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Incredibly well.

[01:53:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's making $70 million.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a long leg.

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: More money than Furiosa.

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Poor Furiosa.

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Poor Furiosa.

[01:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Furiosa.

[01:53:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to a friend of mine who saw Long Legs and was like, how can you say the

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_00]: cops?

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_00]: He's no good.

[01:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Get that guy in jail.

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_00]: A friend of mine who was visited by Long Legs who was like, how can you think that's

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_00]: good?

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the same thing you're saying of like, that is objectively bad.

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And his proof was he was like, when Nicolas Cage came on screen, the audience started laughing.

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And my response was, I think that's a feature, not a bug.

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And part of it is.

[01:54:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying that film is beyond criticism.

[01:54:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But like that movie had this hype cycle of those last two weeks of breathless, like, holy shit,

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_00]: is this thing a miracle?

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: was also coded with people like you.

[01:54:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you didn't write the headline that they assigned to your review was like, is this

[01:54:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the scariest shit of all time?

[01:54:32] [SPEAKER_00]: There was suddenly this pressure on the movie to be like, is this the most terrifying fucking

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: thing you'll ever see?

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And then audiences sat there and then everything in the movie that was kind of weird or goofy

[01:54:44] [SPEAKER_00]: or silly started to be like, what is this?

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought we entered into an agreement that you are going to scare me.

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And M. Night has always had that thing, I would say, past unbreakable, where people

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_00]: are like our past signs where people are like, didn't we have an agreement to how this worked?

[01:55:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The type of movie you made, the way it made us feel.

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we all shook hands and walked away.

[01:55:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[01:55:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you try weird shit like this, people don't know where they're like, if I'm supposed

[01:55:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to be scared, then why are you putting silly shit in here?

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to give Marie the chance to diss long legs because I know not everybody likes long legs.

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_02]: The legs were too long, in your opinion.

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It could have been longer, actually.

[01:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I like movies that...

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Where legs are short.

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Where legs are short, like mine.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I have short legs.

[01:55:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[01:55:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

[01:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Stubby legs.

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: You want this?

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Stubby little legs.

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oz Perkins' stubby legs.

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The Smurfs.

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Smurfs.

[01:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I'm noticing the Balenci's.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:55:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Pop off.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Now people are going to get mad at me because I'm wearing Balenciaga sneakers to record blank

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: check.

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Fuck it alone.

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck them.

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Well.

[01:55:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Ben, you didn't call out my sneakers.

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_01]: What are those?

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Kirkland Signature.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He got them at Costco.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you buy shoes at Costco?

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course he did.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Branded.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Branded.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't just buy them.

[01:55:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I bought them because...

[01:55:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Costco sold houses who would buy one.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They got that Kirkland Signature on the fucking...

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So, long legs.

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I like when movies...

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think Trap does do this even though it has a silly button at the end.

[01:56:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Josh Hartnett at the end is scary.

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I like movies that are silly and then end scary.

[01:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Long legs is the inverse.

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Long legs started scary for me and then ended silly as hell.

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is not the way that I like to experience movies.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also watched it...

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I disagree with you.

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw it at a showing where the audience was pin drop silent the entire time and I walked

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_00]: out and I had a feeling that...

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I've had it since, but the last time I remember feeling this acutely was seeing

[01:56:41] [SPEAKER_00]: the sixth sense for the first time where I was like, okay, this has momentarily rewired

[01:56:47] [SPEAKER_00]: my perception of reality and left me on it.

[01:56:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie's dead.

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm dead.

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not choked.

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I'm saying.

[01:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: People compared it to the fucking Silence of the Lambs.

[01:56:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Now you're talking about...

[01:56:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Inviting that comparison.

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I know, but negatively.

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And now you're like, oh, the last time I felt that way was the first time I saw it.

[01:57:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying that.

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone relax.

[01:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying...

[01:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone relax.

[01:57:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's move on to Trap.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I'm saying.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And this all goes back to Shyamalan, right?

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_00]: When I go to the bathroom in the middle of the Sixth Sense, and at that point, I'm fucking

[01:57:14] [SPEAKER_00]: 10, right?

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember going to the bathroom in the middle of the movie...

[01:57:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Were you checking your serial killer app on your phone?

[01:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course.

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I have to go to the bathroom.

[01:57:23] Okay.

[01:57:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was genuinely scared of ghosts.

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I went to this bathroom and I was like, is the fucking thermostat going to drop?

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I walk out of Longlegs and I got an email from my grandmother that was incoherent because

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_00]: she's not good at emailing.

[01:57:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But I read it and I suddenly was like, is my grandmother possessed?

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I stayed in the bubble of it.

[01:57:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that says more about Ruda than it does about Longlegs.

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying that sort of bubble.

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Jordan Peele is this one guy.

[01:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if it is because he has a background in comedy and then made this pivot where I

[01:57:53] [SPEAKER_00]: do feel like audiences accept him doing both.

[01:57:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And he has this quote that I've heard recently that I find really interesting where he's like,

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the only difference between comedy and horror is music.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same sort of like manipulation of tension.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:58:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And like demanding a physiological response out of audiences and getting into this very clear,

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_00]: like back and forth interplay that tends to play better with a crowd.

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But so much of it is tone setting and letting them know like which parts are supposed to scare you and which parts are supposed to make you laugh.

[01:58:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And when those two things aren't delineated, I think audiences get super fucking confused.

[01:58:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can argue that's proof that a movie doesn't work.

[01:58:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You can say it's misread it, whatever it is.

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think that's what so much of this boils down to.

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And like Get Out over time, it has sort of come out that when they shot it, it was intended to be more of a comedy.

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_00]: He was sort of like if Blumhouse wants me to make something that's a little more satirical.

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And then as they were in post, they were like, can we commit horror harder to the horror of this?

[01:58:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You feel the Laurel Howard character who's really good in that movie being a vestige of that film being like maybe all at that tone.

[01:59:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He's 100 percent funny and good in that movie.

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's right.

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so easy to just lift him out of that movie in a way.

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And he figured out how to balance it.

[01:59:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And then us and, you know, Nope are doing that intentionally and with control from the outset.

[01:59:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like you can have a movie have like the monkey scene, which is genuinely terrifying.

[01:59:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And also have Steven Young give the Chris Gattin monologue about the same thing.

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is hysterical and the audience is like.

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But unsettling.

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Connected to both.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That seems very creepy.

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I just.

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.

[01:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I just think Jordan Peele is better.

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I agree with you.

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm like all of this.

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just being on my mind recently of these lines of like what level of comedy people allow to coexist in horror movies.

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I also think about like the rabid subculture of like horror conventions and stuff.

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[01:59:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Where the guy who is like the eighth lead in like Friday the 13th part four is a superstar at this one hotel ballroom for a weekend.

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And part of it is like giving a performance that most people would maybe say is bad.

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Where part of what like these horror fans covet are these like weird line readings.

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Not even from the icons.

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know the mascots of horror.

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But you're right.

[02:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean the thing of like oh you did the sleeping bag kill.

[02:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I love you for that.

[02:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But that though like quote like not just lines but inflections of like oh no he's coming for me.

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like it's that guy.

[02:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: When he was 19 he said that line that way.

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And he had a look.

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: On a weird world.

[02:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know and people at the time might have been like this movie is dumb and stupid and goofy.

[02:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's some weird power to like that balance of the goofiness with the primal terror.

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That sometimes takes longer to balance out.

[02:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Trap.

[02:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And I can't believe you actually went to the bathroom.

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought you were going to do a bit.

[02:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We've been podcasting for two hours.

[02:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I had to pee.

[02:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: In Trap.

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: The first chunk is him learning.

[02:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next chunk.

[02:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: That hasn't revealed itself.

[02:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Is we're basically watching Cooper kind of case the joint.

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He realizes now what's going on.

[02:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And so he steals a pass to get backstage.

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know to not get backstage.

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: To get in you know the guts of the building.

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Employees only area.

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're just.

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Walkie talkie.

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He's in.

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They're in his ear.

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He knows what they're saying.

[02:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We're watching him build a map of the place.

[02:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: He gives the SWAT cops sugar for their coffee.

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: A moment I thought was so key is when he is standing in front of the fire alarm and he's

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: listening to Hayley Mills monologue and she says he's probably going to do something like.

[02:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I forget what the first thing she says is but he's undeterred.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then she says fire alarm and he turns around and it almost feels like M. Night being like.

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: People expect a twist ending out of me every time they're thinking they're trying to outgame me.

[02:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm stuck.

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You know.

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So what are some other things.

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Makes the canola bomb.

[02:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: He steals the A-bang.

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That was fun.

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Gets the wallet.

[02:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The oil bomb.

[02:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Such a good moment on the roof where they're like what's your pass.

[02:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's just like.

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: My co-worker just got like exploded oil all over her face.

[02:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But like confidently reaches into a pocket.

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Finds the wallet which is what he was hoping for.

[02:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And finds that the card is in the wallet which is what he was hoping for.

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But you see zero hesitation in those first two moves.

[02:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like I'm going to fucking confidence my way through this.

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And hope that it pays off.

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's how obviously he has done what he's been doing.

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is basically like.

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's what Allison Hill says.

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know he's like a fire marshal or a fire inspector or whatever.

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And he like cases empty houses that are like unused because of fire problems.

[02:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What was BTK's job?

[02:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Trapped people in them.

[02:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Installed security system.

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Well.

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Well.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But so then he realizes that one lucky girl gets to go on stage with Lady Raven at every

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: concert and gets to go backstage afterward.

[02:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Which feels kind of like a riff on the Bieber one less lonely girl thing.

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Dream girl.

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a classic concert thing though.

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like oh you're going to get to go on stage and dance for Springsteen.

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We all know they pick someone and they have to do the one.

[02:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Incredible Shyamalan cameo.

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: One of my favorites of his cameos.

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He explains what an uncle is.

[02:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Proud uncle.

[02:03:16] Yeah.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like obviously Shyamalan has gone from I'm putting myself in my movies as a Hitchcockian

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: nod to write my forebears to I'm casting myself as the man who writes the book that

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: changes the world.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Back to now him being like I'm having fun.

[02:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like his cameo at old is so good.

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Remember that one.

[02:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's really delightful.

[02:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: The best one for me still.

[02:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: This one is similar where he's just like I'm behind the scenes.

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm this guy who's you know.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you must be really proud and he's like well yeah but she's my sister's kid.

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm her brother of the mother.

[02:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm her uncle.

[02:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you said he does basically.

[02:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Explain what an uncle is.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: As if you were reading a picture book to a child that explains a family tree.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Your uncle is.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[02:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But a Hartnett obviously locks right in and gets his kid picked as the dream girl.

[02:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: By pretending that she has recovered from leukemia and has a tragic backstory.

[02:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's doing that as means to an end.

[02:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And the moment of panic when the mask comes down as I was saying is him being like have

[02:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I done something that will harm my daughter in the process.

[02:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And the relief he feels when she's good on stage.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of he's pushing it and he knows he's pushing it like he wants out.

[02:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But right.

[02:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He does want to get out clean without his kid figuring it out.

[02:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's.

[02:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: One little moment I want to touch upon before we skip over it is just when the rapper comes

[02:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: out of the trap door.

[02:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[02:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes.

[02:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.

[02:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You want to go check that out?

[02:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.

[02:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: We should go.

[02:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That seems kind of cool.

[02:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like dad.

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Why would we go in the trap door?

[02:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: There are costumes down there.

[02:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't it be like a funny bit?

[02:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's so funny.

[02:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: The rapper.

[02:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It does feel like something you would say to your fiance at a concert.

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey.

[02:04:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's something I might consider.

[02:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The rapper Parker Wayne played by Russ.

[02:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh of course.

[02:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Is the name of the performer.

[02:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I like how dorky that guy looks.

[02:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And then when the daughter sees him backstage and she's like oh my god.

[02:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: She kind of faints a little bit.

[02:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: She jokingly faints into Hartnett's stoic elm tree body.

[02:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a big.

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Climb him like a fucking tree.

[02:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So they get backstage.

[02:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is when I am kind of at sea.

[02:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of like I figured this whole movie was going to be in here.

[02:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe until the last 10 minutes.

[02:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Instead we're kind of halfway into the movie and it feels like we're wrapping up on the arena.

[02:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Willems had told me that he knew someone who lives in the Philly area who got invited to a test screen.

[02:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: His uncle got a Nintendo 64.

[02:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But how is he his uncle?

[02:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: His mom's brother.

[02:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Break it down.

[02:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: They were once both babies born to the same parent.

[02:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: They grew up.

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Who saw a test screening.

[02:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And as someone very invested in the Hartnett career asked him.

[02:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me everything.

[02:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And they said no spoilers.

[02:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The thing I was kind of surprised by was how much of it is on Shyamalan's daughter.

[02:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like well yeah the whole thing's at the concert right?

[02:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: No no no.

[02:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like third act she's kind of a dramatic center point.

[02:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So I knew that going in and I'm watching it the whole time going I don't understand how this movie could possibly get to the

[02:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: point where it's hinging on her dramatically.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Where it doesn't just have to be on stage performance.

[02:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is wonderful you talk about all the craft of it like that we're always with Hartnett.

[02:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes we are learning that she actively knows about the sting operation.

[02:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And participated in it basically.

[02:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Basically held the concert to get it.

[02:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Surprise afternoon.

[02:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just hey can we do this at your concert right?

[02:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Can we create a Lady Raven concert around this idea?

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: She's part.

[02:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's into it and not only that she knows the profile.

[02:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Of the guy.

[02:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Haley Mills has filled her in.

[02:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And this incredible moment where Hartnett's like because first he was like hey we don't have to go back through the crowd.

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Can we leave from out here?

[02:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: If you just check in with our serial killer team over here.

[02:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Procedure.

[02:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: No big deal.

[02:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll be right through.

[02:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: There's also a great moment when Shyamalan gives them the pass and is bringing them up to the stage.

[02:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like four armed guards.

[02:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And they go like excuse me no one's allowed past here without like a security check.

[02:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And Shyamalan goes like hold on and walks up to the guy and whispers in his ear for like 40 seconds.

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're literally watching a Shyamalan hand wave happen in real time.

[02:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also him just being like look this can't do this and that.

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to explain to you why we don't have time for this plot beat basically.

[02:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes.

[02:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: He cannot get out.

[02:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So he plays the ace of spades like the last card he has.

[02:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: One quick one quick other detail is I love that like one of the one of the identifying features is that they can tell he has this like stupid little tattoo.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Of an animal.

[02:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Of an animal.

[02:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He has.

[02:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That is one of his only tells.

[02:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And so he puts like a slap bracelet.

[02:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's also call out one of the things that makes people go insane over this movie which I agree is insane and is like from the mind of M. Night Shyamalan like how does he think things work these days.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But that the thing they've built the trap around was that they found a receipt for tickets to the concert.

[02:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Where you're like who's carrying a paper receipt.

[02:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Dads.

[02:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Dads.

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's dad behavior.

[02:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's major dad energy.

[02:08:20] You know what.

[02:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: My father certainly would print out tickets and receipts five times.

[02:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably the last generation that would do that but I can buy it.

[02:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Also I don't know.

[02:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't love to leave a paper trail.

[02:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You also find it.

[02:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Or like a credit card trail you know.

[02:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he walked up to the box office.

[02:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But you also find out later it was placed.

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Well correct.

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: His wife did throw him under the bus.

[02:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway.

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: He does to my total surprise.

[02:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of the biggest twist in the movie in a way.

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that he then marches up to Lady Raven and is like hello.

[02:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I am the butcher.

[02:08:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You've been looking for me.

[02:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And here is a man I can kill at the drop of a hat if you tell anyone.

[02:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like.

[02:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Now get me out of here.

[02:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just talk to you for one second.

[02:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like sure.

[02:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes in and he gives her a monologue about carbon monoxide.

[02:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh it sucks.

[02:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so fucking creepy.

[02:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then goes like anyway yeah.

[02:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So it is me.

[02:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the killer.

[02:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: How are we going to do this?

[02:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We're getting out of here in your limo.

[02:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And we are not getting serial killer checked by those dastardly serial killer checkers.

[02:09:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And.

[02:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's one of those exciting moments where you're like.

[02:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what happens.

[02:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There's 30 minutes left in the movie.

[02:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what could possibly happen at this point.

[02:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And then yes we do kind of switch to Lady Raven.

[02:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They're all together.

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But now we have this crazy uncomfortable thing where she doesn't want the daughter to know.

[02:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe doesn't know the daughter.

[02:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: If the daughter knows or not.

[02:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know they're like all together.

[02:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also in the opening credits the reaction you had to Hayley Mills.

[02:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I see Allison Pills name.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: An actor I love.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh I do too but I love Allison Pills.

[02:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Where is Chekhov's Pills when she's coming?

[02:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going where could she possibly fit into this?

[02:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: What type of role could exist in this movie that is big enough that hasn't been revealed yet?

[02:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course they get home.

[02:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[02:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She is his loving wife.

[02:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Her name is Rachel.

[02:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like Lady Raven is where the audience is.

[02:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Where she the whole time she's like does she know?

[02:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Correct.

[02:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Does the kid know?

[02:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Who knows and who doesn't know?

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what's the balance here?

[02:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was going to be the twist.

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: When Lady Raven is locked in the bathroom and then she comes out and it's going to be the wife being like.

[02:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.

[02:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Mrs. Butcher.

[02:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly my favorite.

[02:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So Salika does have these massive eyes and I do feel like that's her biggest asset.

[02:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But my favorite moment is when she just starts playing the piano.

[02:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Because kind of that's the thing she's the best at anyway.

[02:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: As like a power move.

[02:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that just worked for me a little better than her other power move moment when she's in the car with him and starts throwing mommy stuff at him.

[02:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[02:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I like the idea of doing that to throw him off balance.

[02:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think she just doesn't quite sell the intensity of it.

[02:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't even tell if that was real or if he was imagining it.

[02:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think.

[02:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's real.

[02:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's real.

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It's real.

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so weird.

[02:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But she's using what she has which is just the information they gave.

[02:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean I really like the history.

[02:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like ha ha.

[02:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Bringing up my mom.

[02:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Not gonna bother me.

[02:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm normal.

[02:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm feeling fine.

[02:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing my serial killer thing.

[02:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But this kind of control freak serial killer.

[02:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Marie's going to the bathroom to check her murder basement.

[02:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of control freak serial killer.

[02:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: There is the sort of psychology of the thing that wounds them the most is making them feel dumb.

[02:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That their like sense of pride comes from like and I did it perfectly and I lined it up and none of the clues.

[02:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And her being able to be like hey you know here's like a dumb stereotype.

[02:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: They all have dark cars because it makes it look more clean.

[02:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He hates that he can be seen as that predictable.

[02:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[02:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: That they would know that about him simply by guessing essentially at his behavior.

[02:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So it does kind of put him at like unease.

[02:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: To just have someone read him.

[02:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas like a moment that I love in Hartnett's performance and in the script is where he's like I'm putting my hand on your shoulder.

[02:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: My fingers on your shoulder.

[02:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And they are not coming off your shoulder until you're where I want you to be.

[02:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never seen anything like that.

[02:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[02:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a great expression of like the control and power he wants to exert.

[02:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: There's also in that walk he does with her.

[02:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He goes into what his like fucking the garage the storage closet or wherever he has a secret little magnet like wall reveal thing.

[02:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are like three brooms on the wall.

[02:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That are like on wall mounted like hooks or hangers or whatever.

[02:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And when he opens the door and walks through he knocks one of them down onto the floor.

[02:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he readjusts the second one that he didn't knock down to make it more precise.

[02:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like that absolutely has to be a take where that was a mistake where he wasn't supposed to knock them over.

[02:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: He was just supposed to finesse them.

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And it would be too hard in that moment to figure out how to kneel down and pick up the broom without taking your hand off the shoulder.

[02:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But in real time it's him being like okay I'm fucking up order and trying to maintain it at this.

[02:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know like you can feel he's losing the threat a little bit.

[02:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He's losing it.

[02:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: A hundred percent.

[02:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah her biggest thing obviously is you know she fuck it I'm going to go on IG live.

[02:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to get in this bathroom.

[02:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Does anyone know a park with a busted lion statue?

[02:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: A blue door?

[02:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's also the move of her playing the piano at the house.

[02:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like her superpower she has in this setting is the energy she is able to wield from doing shit.

[02:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that his daughter is so obsessed with her and he doesn't want to mess with that.

[02:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys are you guys familiar with like the Lady Gaga as a detective memes?

[02:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[02:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Rings of egg bell.

[02:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you familiar with Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn and Joker Faliadeh coming later this year to this feed?

[02:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't there something she said about like she looked into the evidence of January 6th or something?

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Jesus Christ.

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: She's sitting at the Biden inauguration.

[02:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: She's fucking slamming.

[02:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Computer shot.

[02:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And she was like.

[02:13:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Going to the Capitol while she was there to.

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Just saying she's like I'm also going to investigate.

[02:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And so now it's become a thing where like people are like Gaga's on the case.

[02:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well Lady Raven is on the case.

[02:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: She does.

[02:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And she does.

[02:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: She wants of course remove his point of leverage which is this guy and she succeeds.

[02:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: They do rescue the guy in the basement.

[02:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Cooper basically goes to the next stage where he's like well I've locked my family upstairs.

[02:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll hopefully explain that away later.

[02:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't really know what's happened to them which is really unsettling.

[02:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:14:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that he.

[02:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know what it was.

[02:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like did they run away?

[02:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Did he kill them?

[02:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Or did he lock them away?

[02:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Or did they find out?

[02:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know we don't know.

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the movie is just like well we got to keep going.

[02:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Now they're in the car.

[02:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well he says the thing in the car.

[02:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Where uh.

[02:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But he sees when the garage door comes up they're standing in front of the car.

[02:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[02:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're challenging him.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: If you try to escape you're going to have to hit us.

[02:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he says something to the effect of like locked the door.

[02:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Windows close to the tree bridge.

[02:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Branch could have gotten down.

[02:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Never viewed from that vantage point before.

[02:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That was such a funny line.

[02:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so good.

[02:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He's never cased his own house.

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[02:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Because he's always had.

[02:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep the life separate.

[02:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't let them touch.

[02:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: The peas can't touch the mashed potatoes.

[02:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you couldn't possibly relate to.

[02:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking about you a lot.

[02:15:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Go on.

[02:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Go on.

[02:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: As a father of a daughter who is you know constantly compartmentalizing and keeping your family.

[02:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I am not a serial killer to be clear.

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Away from this like twisted fucked up thing you do which is.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Podcasting.

[02:15:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Disgusting.

[02:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait what did Ben say?

[02:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I said why are your fingers crossed?

[02:15:43] [SPEAKER_03]: There is something I need to bring up.

[02:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Please.

[02:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So we do record this show in a low ventilation windowless room.

[02:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: How dare you?

[02:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We have an AC unit that usually works.

[02:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And one other thing.

[02:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Central air.

[02:15:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying if you put carbon monoxide through that vent right there.

[02:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We could kill anyone we wanted so quickly.

[02:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But also there are a bunch of chains that are just in the corner of the studio.

[02:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Look I think that comes up on a later episode.

[02:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember.

[02:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But Ben does have a chain display up right now.

[02:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a rusty pipe functioning as like a hanger for multiple chains.

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a chain display.

[02:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a chain display.

[02:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how it's been described to me.

[02:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was meant for his home but weirdly his fiancee objected.

[02:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: She said absolutely not.

[02:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That would be so funny if like the FBI called us and they're like we're so close to.

[02:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We think we've identified the deadliest serial killer working today.

[02:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: The peeper.

[02:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out.

[02:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: No it turns out that he's a major blankie.

[02:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We've tracked his activity on r slash blankies and we're like really?

[02:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like oh yeah we check that all the time for potential serial killers.

[02:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you book them as a guest on the show?

[02:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a trap.

[02:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

[02:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be easy to pump poison into this room.

[02:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I just think like you know.

[02:17:01] [SPEAKER_03]: If the FBI asked us to.

[02:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: If one of us were to be a serial killer.

[02:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And we know who it would be.

[02:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: He's pointing at me.

[02:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What the fuck?

[02:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Why would it be me?

[02:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I am the most well adjusted of you for.

[02:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that true?

[02:17:15] Yes it is.

[02:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We're crazy.

[02:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We're crazy in the streets normal in the sheets.

[02:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[02:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Well he.

[02:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my.