Wild at Heart with Tatiana Maslany

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This whole podcast Wild at Heart, weird on top

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good great right that's when they say the name of the movie right that's the title of the film is

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild at Heart Wild at Heart and I turned a world into podcast

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Which are basically I mean they're basically shaking off the cobwebs. We're doing great

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, we're coming off a little a little break from recording

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll talk about it on the Beetlejuice episode

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, cuz that's like a three weeks before this episode great. Hey, right timelines all gonna make perfect

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Normal app incoming

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Talking about a normal movie sure here's the thought I had

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: While watching this had you seen this film before I had seen this course cuz you're your big fan of the actor

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we'll get it. We'll get into it. Yep. I'd seen it before but only the one time

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and that was 10 plus years ago

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And this had never been my favorite film of his although I harbor no

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Dislike of it. Mm-hmm. This does feel like maybe the apex of like Lynch just as image maker

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Where is astonishing to watch this movie go through shot by shot?

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You're just like this guy is so dialed into what his thing is

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We're every single image the styling of every single character every environment every prop every wardrobe item

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You're just like he's got complete control of the wheel

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It is wild to watch a play in real time now a movie that we are constantly

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like in our circles having fed back to us constantly via gift

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like this movie is constantly being fed back to me out of order

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of yeah, there's certain things in this movie that are and yeah, you're right

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree with you sure. What's the big gift for this movie?

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's from the very beginning Nick Cage pointing. Yeah, yes

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right after he's killed the guy with his hand against the railing

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I talk or am I absolutely if you don't okay? Hello? Hi guys

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What's up? I had never seen any get I don't think I knew anything about this movie before I saw it the first time

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But I knew didn't even know it existed

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Did it just did someone just kind of like lock you in a room and be like just just shut up

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna show you something. Yeah, he did a great impression of him

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: That is what I was like blown away. I was like this is exact in in so many ways

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's totally the opposite of any movie

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I would ever want to watch because it's so grotesque, but it's also like my dream

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's why you're here. We got a dig into that's why you're beaming in from

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Another country to talk about this movie with us

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Introduce you properly

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But like a month or two ago

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You asked what we were doing on the podcast currently and I said David Lynch and you went oh

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I love wild at heart like your eyes lit up like that in my head it went

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That great little riff the little hottest riff in

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Cinema, this is a hot movie even just the poster. It's so hot up

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just the two of them looking hot such a hot poster. Yeah, just imagine like

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's 1990 you go to the movie hall and you see that poster and you're like what's that?

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just about two hotties

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: This feels like the very last time that people might have accidentally seen a David Lynch movie thinking it was gonna be a

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Normal film. Yeah

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just Lord Dern and Nick Cage looking hot and you're like, oh, there's like a car

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: He's got hairy arms. He's great. He's got big in the jacket in it

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Is he's got the jacket on not wearing the jacket on the poster turn. Can you show? Yeah?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to see this poster. Yeah, it's a classic

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, this almost looks like and this is probably totally incorrect the Connair poster

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit in him or classic action hero pose cuz if you put the jacket on people are like

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's some weird doing an Elvis thing right. Yeah. Yeah at this movie is also

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I would put forth maybe here's the Connair poster and a great poster

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't get a body. It's a similar kind of pose

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like guys Stoic staring Connair has you know fiery orange

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, but Wild at Heart has that bright pink makes draws your eye the orange sky

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a post it does it does this movie is let's just talk about the poster

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the twilight of Nicholas Cage's original hairline right? This is like the picture wrap on

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Because that that first stage of his career where you're like this guy's like 19 and he feels like he's been alive for

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Eons for centuries. He can successfully who share who's like 15 years old. He's the hairiest man in the world

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you like Moonstruck? Oh?

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but also only recently saw it and was like wait what it what it was I doing for

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's get in talk. Let's look this is blank check with Griffin and David

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Griffin David the podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: To make whatever crazy passion products they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a mini series on the films of David Lynch, but also his TV shows sure

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It is called Twin Pods Fire cast with me. That's right. And today we are talking about what is

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: The moment where he's kind of on top of the universe

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That's true because this comes out after the first season of Twin Peaks

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He basically does this and the first season of Twin Peaks concurrently as like projects tap and

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Then Twin Peaks airs as like eight episodes mid-season

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Runaway success start of 1990 this plays at the Cannes Film Festival

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Like a week after the finale of Twin Peaks season one and wins the palm door wins the palm door and

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Then this comes out in the summer. It's like this guy is at the absolute center of culture

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Right

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like crossed over to the mainstream and even when this wins the palm door people like boo it and her like do we is it too much?

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Do we need to start taking him down and then like three months later Twin Peaks season two and everyone's like get the fuck out

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's true. It is like his

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Movie though what are what's Cannes qualms with this movie? Well, my guess is I you know although I looked at the

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Line-up that year. It's not like a you know deadly lineup of so many classics

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they wanted like the Serena de Bergerac movie obviously that was like a big deal the dipper do yeah

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would have aged perfectly if that was oh, yeah, we should revisit that one

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's there's it's not that there's bad movies in here

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not like major masterpieces, but my guess is this thing was seen as too slick and violent

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe too stylish no substance. I don't know. I don't you know camp

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes camp in it like incredibly camp very American

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Totally and just like performances that kind of go like yeah, ha ha you're watching a movie right now

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? Like they're like unabashedly like this is acting

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, 100%

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna just call her Lorde Dern's mom because I'm a dumb dumb. What's her name Diane Ladd?

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. Yes her performance like covered in red

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, lipstick like we're doing right there and just like shaking like tremoring in staring in mirrors

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so beautifully camp like it must have just been insulting to an audience that's sitting there going like we need to see

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I assume you know like real drama

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: My theory too is that perhaps when he was like the oddball American fringe figure

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Who could then go to can and the French would be like we understand you unlike these slovenly Americans?

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynch felt like theirs

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But at a moment where he's suddenly reaching like mainstream

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: crossover success on American network television and then he makes this movie that's so steeped in sort of like B

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Movie like American

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Sort of like crime genre shit with big stars

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They're just like does he need to get taken down a peg

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this like have we let him go on go too far and is rewarding this gonna push him even further off the ledge

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: There to Luchi was the jury president. Okay who I

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Mean it's interesting. Yeah, it's like who probably wouldn't make a movie like this ever

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this theory. Yes that

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Like film festivals when the chair is a when the head of the jury is a director

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That often the winner is the film. They're like, I wish I could make something like that

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I could never make they could least imagine themselves being able to be over giving it to blue is the warmest color where he's like

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I could not make a three-hour lesbian sex drama

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I just don't have any like or Burton giving it to uncle Boone me. Yes. Yeah

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that our guests today return to the show. Yeah bring who's our guest the great Tatiana Miss Lonnie

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The late the great. No, you're not late. No, no

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I was late

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Rounding error rounding error in the Toronto check you were early that Toronto traffic is brutal too. I have been in it

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It is so nasty. It's not great. You're you're you're zooming in we were

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, because a beel juice will have come out by by then can I say this David?

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We were supposed to record an episode and then your wife went into labor much earlier than expected. That's true

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_05]: That's true. Oh, dare she I know terrible behavior by her

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the whole time she was doing it. I was like but Tatiana Miss Lonnie is booked for this

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you accepted the icon of my personal Gmail. Yeah

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that's true. So we have we have a switch to zoom. Oh, we were always gonna be on zoom

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess yeah, but um, yes, we've been trying to pin this episode down for a while

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You were in the city a couple months ago. You like sparked it wild at heart

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You were talking how much you loved it want to get into it

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I do think this is a particularly interesting one to have you on for not just because this seems to be your

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Personal favorite of the Lynch movies. Is that right? Oh, yeah for sure. Yeah, I really liked eraser head though

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to say good movie. Yeah

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He's as hell

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: This is such an interesting acting movie and to your point what you were saying

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Diane Ladd in this is one of the only

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Three acting nom's a Lynch movie ever got. Oh, interesting. So you got John Horton elephant man

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Richard Farmsworth and straight story. Oh, yeah, and this and this that's funny

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: The other two nominations were like these incredibly stripped down emotionally powerful

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: reserved sort of

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: unconventional

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: performances for the Lynch ove in his two most

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: quote-unquote traditional movies and this is the one time they gave an acting nomination to an actor going full Lynch

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I kept thinking while watching this like she's giving a soap opera performance

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't say that in any pejorative sense

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It is incredible her like lack of

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: abandon

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I would say that it's like

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Brave, it's like brave on so many levels and it and it it also

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Extends to all of the performances are like incredibly brave in their own ways

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I like love watching Nick Cage and we'll I'm sure get to this later

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But his recent performances are like no exception. He's just got like

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Zero fear. Yes, like he's just like he just goes for it

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm worried about like looking stupid on screen or whatever no not at all and like consequently like he's not

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't look stupid, you know what I mean? Like he doesn't have embarrassment

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you're not embarrassed watching him. This is the movie right after

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Blue Velvet, right? Obviously Twin Peaks happens in between

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but like Blue Velvet is so much the the codification of what the Lynch thing is and

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Then to a certain extent the like the Dennis Hopper performance is like

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, David Lynch has created a space where you can give a performance like this

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel like this movie is everyone trying to outdo this

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But it feels like every actor signs up knowing

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: This is now the parameters that I can play in this is like a movie

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a director where I get to flex things that I know one else would allow me to do

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And you have people with very different acting styles and different backgrounds and all of that

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But like Cage is the ultimate yes

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Like doing the things most actors would be terrified to do and finding some sort of like grounding center in

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: What feels to a lot of people cartoonish absurd

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: He's talked so much about his frustration over like the last 15 years and I think he's kind of

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Reclaimed it now

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But how the internet kind of fucked him because the obsession with like Nick Cage freak out supercuts

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and the gifts and the still images made him into like this flattened Nick Cage

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a guy who does weird shit and

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: he's always been like all that weird shit is like an extension of a

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Grounding and understanding of text working with filmmakers. I'm building to those moments

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't happen in a vacuum when you deprive them of the context

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me just seem like a lunatic and it's also a disservice to those filmmakers, right?

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the biggest thing is like taking them out of context

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You could like yeah humiliate any actor by being like this is like the moments when so-and-so was weeping or whatever

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can always like shame anybody

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But like he doesn't seem to be coming from like a place of like I need to like I want to go viral

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But he's not that he's like living the character's journey and just like taking the biggest swings

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and he just approaches things like there is it was either GQ or sqire did a profile on him when

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Massive weight of unbearable talent was coming. Yeah. Yeah. It was the big piece on like cage is kind of yeah

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Nick can explain it all Gabrielle. Yeah. Yes. Yeah

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But that was the headline and the thesis was like people like to think that Nick Cage is this collection of just like random

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Intricities right both as an actor and his personal life where you're like he went bankrupt buying dinosaur skulls and

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The whole thesis of this piece is like you ask him any question

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And he gives you a very straight earnest answer for how he got there like everything makes sense to him

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: He's fascinating to us as a figure because our brains don't work that way

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's not someone who's just like firing off chaotic like choices for the sake of

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Showing us now. This was the crazy thing that I was saying

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna tell you on my tat that might blow your mind Nick Cage one of my absolute favorite actors a guy

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm obsessed with I saw this movie for the first time in the middle of a project for a magazine that them went

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Under as my friend and I were writing it to try to watch every Nicholas Cage movie in a two-week period

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I went semi-crazy watching like 40 Nicholas Cage movies in two weeks

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So I saw that for the first time in that context this movie in that context

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the first time we have covered Nicholas Cage on the main feed of this podcast

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Going on ten years. Yeah, we've never talked about Nicholas Cage movie

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_05]: You know I was trying to think because obviously we're director focused

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like we've never done the Coen brothers. That would be a Nicholas Cage opportunity haven't done her Zog

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we haven't done all of Michael Bay or all over stone sure

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of right we on our patreon

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We did two episodes on the National Treasure movies

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: That's true which were the first times we've ever discussed him and I love those movies

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's very fun them, but they don't feel totally emblematic of who he is as an actor versus this being like such a core

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything you're saying this guy's willing to try anything without any fear of embarrassment

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the perfect movie to finally like dig into what is the cage thing?

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: well, he's also just like in so many weird ways like he's like

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like a movie star, but also like a character actor like a working actor

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? He does

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: He makes choices you can see like he's making choices that are like for money

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure and like for but he's always like finding something in them that is

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Off and I think that's why he's so fascinating because he could by all counts have just been like he could have been the guy on

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That poster just looking like stoic

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He could do that if he wanted to but he'd be so bored and he did it but not in a boring way maybe but he you know

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe there would maybe is a moment where you can feel Nicholas Cage in the early 2000s being like

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what am I doing in this?

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know a little bit start of Bangkok dangerous next where he's floating right and then there's the era of

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: His admitted like well when he's just making movies for money

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I went to financial ruin. I have to do seven projects a year

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I try to give them my all but I'm stretched a little thin and like

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: No, please no

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You have twins sir, please

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I want it we want to hear from daddies with twins

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just when Wild at Heart comes out

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, you know you would have seen this guy pop if you're like say it's 1990

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to see a movie you would have maybe seen him pop and things like rumblefish or whatever

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But really it's just been a few years of Nicholas Cage as a major actor Peggy

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So I married right probably sort of the start

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Like yeah, this is what's great

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean I should run we'll talk about it a little bit

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: But then you have like the raising Arizona moon struck a year 1987. Yeah, and then since then it's just Vampire's kiss which is like

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Just a shot of Nicholas Cage's free to the neck. I think we do this from the top. Let's just run through all right now

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're beating around it. All right, but like obviously he you know

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: member of the extended Coppola family his brother his dad is

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Francis's like kind of black sheep brother

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It would did not grow up very close to the family

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But was just like from a young age of very obsessed with the idea of being a movie actor

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And his first real movies fast times at Richmond High, right, but that's Valley girl is his first like

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Big part. Yes, and I'm putting fast times originally on the board only to say by the time you get to Wilde at heart

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He's been in movies for eight years, but Valley girl is 83. He's like the main love interest. Yeah rumblefish

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got like he's supporting role. Yeah, Francis is starting to throw him parts

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: he changes his name because he doesn't want to be seen as a nepotism hire and

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He starts sort of this thing of like if Francis is throwing me jobs

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Then I'm gonna do them the weirdest way possible because I don't want to seem like I'm just

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Handsome nephew getting roles. Yeah, and then like right racing with the moon Cotton Club birdie

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all kind of like flashy. I never seen a birdie guys

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Birdie that's one of his big like oh he pulled out his tooth and he went harder

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: The most young actors would go but at this point he's like 17 18

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's really young that Peggy Sue is the one where he's just like

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna I'm gonna play the male lead as pokey from Gumby. Have you seen Peggy Sue got married?

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I have but Brendan will probably say that I have

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I don't recall it. It's one of coplas only like hits in the 80s

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's like four hire run where this one works

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, I mean it's about like a

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Person of you know 40 something or whatever goes to their high school reunion and then she gets zapped back into her teenage body

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, she's like stuck in a

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Loveless

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Past its due date marriage with her high school sweetheart and then she like falls

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: She feints at her high school reunion wakes up. She's back

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: In her senior year and she gets a chance to redo everything right

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And so Nicholas Cage is the husband, but he's he's cast so he can play young

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You know right high school at the beginning. He's in it an old age makeup

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But you don't really hear him and then he's playing a huge dumbass. I mean, right, right

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: He's playing like the high school like hunk sweetheart and he does the entire movie talking like this

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was one of these things where like francis fort coppola fought really hard for him

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like i'll do it if I can play it this way and coppola was like, what the fuck are you doing?

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I just put my neck out for you. You're gonna get me fired

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But his rationale which I think is so smart and I think the performance totally works

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the beginning of him getting at this sort of like expressionistic style of acting this non-literal

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Representational style of acting is he's like the whole point of the movie is that she like

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Goes back to her high school years with the eyes and the brain of an adult woman

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And the kind of guy she would have found cute when she was 17 is going to seem so goofy now

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my god. Is that ever brilliant? Yes, and it totally works

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: He's incredible in it and it cooks in all of the embarrassment that we have back at like yes our childhood

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But is a choice that no one else would make

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh, and then that leads to raising arizona and moonstruck

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Where you're like this guy has weirdly now become like a low level leading man

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But as you said like not a movie star yet, but like moon struck it

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean obviously raising arizona. He's so good in that he's so

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Perfect for like the cohen brothers sort of smart idiot thing

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Moonstruck he makes no sense in that movie. No, like no, that's a that's a tough one

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: He's playing 15 years older than he is

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess so or it's just sort of not being addressed

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he comes on screen and this kind of movie that's so far has been this like quaint

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Sweet like you know, oh, she's moping and her family and then he shows up to start screaming

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is the tone of the movie in my opinion. It is operatic like he's bringing you there

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: It's another example of him getting someone needs to be playing the opera of this

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is so shocking when you first see him in that movie and he is hot

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But he's also funny looking and his hair is kind of funny looking and it's you know

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like his whole affect is kind of like off-kilter

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't his accent goofballs too. He's got a big accent. Yeah, that's an accent movie

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_05]: You know everyone's doing it's allowed. It's in bounds. Yeah. It's not a wig movie. It's an accent movie

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and then an 88 vampires kiss which is a movie. Have you seen vampires kiss? It's I haven't but I very silly movie

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean griff you may have a different take on this than me

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's about a guy who starts to think he's turning into a vampire

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_05]: It's sort of an 80s satire of like, you know hot shot guy

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say it's a totally okay movie that is mostly just its reputation is oh, this is when cage just went

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Totally loot like he's just screaming the whole movie

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: There's this notorious scene where he does the alphabet. Yes. He's like a b c d

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And he won't stop and you're like I can't believe he does this live on camera and like yeah

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just the start of like what if you just don't reign this guy in at all

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But at this point it's like, okay, so this guy like has enough of the right look

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's got enough of a name. He's been in enough big movies

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: His biggest movies have been ones where he's the weird love interest

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Not the movies where he is the guy

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But that gives him enough juice to be able to get small enough movies bankrolled off of his name

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's sort of like you imagine if we were

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Like film nerds at this time, you'd be like he's the cool guy. He's the cool actor. Isn't it cool?

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: He gets a star in his own movies

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: when you get to

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and then after that time to kill is like his incredibly weird italian war drama

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: About leprosy that I think was mostly because he wanted to do an italian movie

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Never on tuesdays a cameo and then wild at heart is 1990 which feels like him sort of owning his lane

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It is wild to your point tab to watch him in this and be like great

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: This is this guy at his peak and be like five years from now

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: He will have won an oscar and be starring in two back-to-back jerry broughheimer action movies in the same summer

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That he just became a very like not a conventional leading man

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But a mainstream leading man that within five years

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: He was still doing his weird shit within those trappings

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But he became a guy who could star in legitimate prestige movies

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and huge like

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: fucking shopping mall blockbusters for teenagers

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_05]: What what's your relationship with him? Like, you know, where did you

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_05]: proceed cage

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Where did I first see cage great? I have no idea. I have no clue

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think I was like versed. I wasn't cage versed for a long time

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You were caged and and you didn't get on the page for a while in ignorance. Yeah

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: um, but

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's I feel like it's as I've gotten into movies now in my like 30s that I've appreciated him because I think I always was like

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh that guy I think I didn't know I didn't know better and

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, he does something I think because he's so unabashedly like

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Bold he does a thing that like

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Highlights to me that actors are very

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Are very like careful most of the time and like, you know, he he just like

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an idea sometimes an acting of like don't be caught acting

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you watch an actor who's acting so hard you're like, oh

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you want to like distance yourself from it

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's so much fun and when you actually get to do that kind of work

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the freest thing when you have that kind of freedom and that kind of like

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Respect from your crew your collaborators that they're just like yeah go for it

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll like shave it or do whatever but we'll like let you go for it on the day

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Which I don't know. I just yeah, Lou velvet. It's like everyone signs up knowing like this is safe. He's gonna protect us

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was watching this like little bit of like behind the scenes with like

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Laura Dern too

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Who okay? I have two things to say one is about nick cage like it also can shut it off when he needs to like when

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Willem Dafoe comes in the first time we see by the room was just like the grooves

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He has to go

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But nick cage like turns it off like he just like gives it over to willem Dafoe. He doesn't

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Pull any focus. He's like this is this is this guy's moment and willem Dafoe's not doing anything like pyrotechnics

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But he like the energy goes towards him. Do you know what I mean?

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Nick cage isn't like showboating or like trying to do anything. Let me win this scene or whatever

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: No, but it is also why he's like brave to me. It goes to this point of like my defense of nick less cage has always been

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, a he's never been bad in a good movie

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: The performance of his that quote unquote don't work and I would defend most of them

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: tend to be in movies that have no handle on themselves

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But when a movie works

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's working with a good filmmaker that he trusts even if he's doing something that feels quote unquote crazy

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And like outside of the safe zone and unconventional

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It always feels like it is in direct intelligent

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation with the larger story in the larger movie which

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of insecure actors who just wanted to be exciting colorful

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: dramatic crazy

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Would be threatened by willem Dafoe showing up

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: With the teeth and the energy and the voice and being like I gotta out do this guy's gonna steal every scene, right?

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to yeah, and you're right that he knows like no what I have to do here is dial it all the way back

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_05]: What is the cage performance that doesn't work for you?

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Like is there one it's a good question because there are some where it's like you're saying like oh

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well the movie's not very good. So you know like is there a

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_05]: A big cage performance that you're kind of like that one never stuck

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if there's well, okay like a clunker

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the ones that work for me the least aren't the ones where he's taking big swings

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: They're the ones where he feels a little lost or checked out, right?

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: We're like if i'm watching next

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like I wish he was trying more right. He's not doing too much in that one

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never seen that he feels a little trapped. There is stuff like

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, which one is it uh deadfall is a movie that i haven't heard of his brother directed christopher coppola

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And he I mean this was my project

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Early 90s it's right uh

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right before no it's right after this a couple years after this because right that's the thing right after this

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes into a run of like studio comedies. He does honeymoon in vegas guarding tasks. Amos and andrew. Yep. These are

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he can ask a question. Yes, when was face off face off is 96

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's sort of like what griffin is talking about is wait. What's your take on face off?

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no because that's that i'm realizing my intro to nick cage was the pay-per-view

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: advertisements for face off

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Where he dances at one point and I was like that's the hottest man i've ever seen

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I never watched the movie but I watched pay-per-view just to watch that trend you should check out face off

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_05]: That would blow I have to like it's what griffin that feel like is saying is like in the early 90s

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: He becomes kind of a studio comedy guy and then in 95 he wins the oscar for leaving las vegas

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and in 96 he has the rock conner and face off all in one wikipedia is formatting this weird

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The rock is 96 conner and face off are both 97. Oh, yeah, you're right

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But he has two successive years with three jerry brockheimer movies suddenly a giant action star

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right after becoming a legitimate serious actor

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And not only is he a giant action star, but he is giving very big nicolas kg performances

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_05]: He is not like tamping himself down. It's what you were saying that he's doing weird

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: What is the zanergy versions of leading man?

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: All right one of it like he's the insinity of angels. Is he any good in that?

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: That's one where I think he's a little sleepy. He's pretty terrible in captain karelli

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's sleepy

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say like deadfall is one where he's giving a performance

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That's insane, but he's in a movie

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: He knows doesn't work and he's like so just have fun

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's him just being like it doesn't fucking matter. Give me a fake nose

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna do a silly voice. I would say that's

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Him doing a bunch of shit that isn't really grounded in anything

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: versus like karelli

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that chain is like him getting a little lost and sort of stayed leading man stuff

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Because the whole weird thing with leaving Las Vegas is like, oh, here's him giving a very stripped down

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: realistic naturalistic performance

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: In a like character based drama that is sort of sophisticated

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But because he's a drunk

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a built-in escape hatch

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: For him to have crazy nic cage freak out scenes

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's grounding in something very specific and at some of the best like

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: alcoholic acting I've ever seen and drunk acting I've ever seen

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But when he's trying to do the same sort of like, I guess I should be a proper serious leading man

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_01]: In his other kind of city of angels captain karelli shit

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You're like he feels a little constrained

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: David yes, it's episode. Can you guess movie to you bye movie?

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[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Goodbye. Bye. Bye

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: He's good in this though. This is a top cage performance for me

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also a top turn moment my god massive turn moment

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We um the first time I met you I think was when we went to see rr together

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: When right, I think that was the first time we met. Yeah, I think so and I I quoted you saying this

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: anonymously on the show just about the power of that movie

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But we walked out and you just turned me and brandon and you went like those guys can do everything

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You were like that is a movie where these two actors have gotten to do every single type of acting

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They act they're dramatic. They're funny. They sing. They dance. They're doing action

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They do like slapstick behavioral comedy, right? Yeah

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I saw your eyes light up at just like that's like full test

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: shit

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're given a space where they can do every type of acting possible

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And to the point of I think a lot of what we're saying like this movie is similar

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Where like sometimes he's asked them to play a scene totally real

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Which must be really scary when you know some of the other scenes in this movie

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like is that gonna bump?

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean the journey that they go on the first half of the film being this kind of like arch like sexy

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: romance like rock music video

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Into like when the death when they witness that car crash and suddenly the vibes are ruined. She's pregnant. Yeah

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's like shot so different like that is actually I was looking at the timecode and that's like almost like the exact midpoint of the film

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and after that there's

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: the like

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Case of their

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Their relationship goes like like goes into this like totally different energy

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Where all of the romance is out. There's like puke in the bedroom

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like they're shot separately in the bedroom in the beginning

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: They're all like shot always within it seemed no I didn't like go back really and look at it

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But no, I think it was almost always within the same frame right like they're even if they're in separate spaces

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Like when she's talking about what happened to her when she was younger

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They're still shot in the same they're in the same shot

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So like they're still connected but then that like separation and and then performance wise it just totally goes in a

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes like it's like their hearts have been broken like totally. He's very different

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Like all the fun stuff people think about with Nicholas Cage is mostly in the first half of the movie, right?

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The snakeskin jacket that's singing the you know like that's I was gonna say beyond them

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Just like being unified in the frame together the first hour the movie is just like they're so iconographic

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, like they're both wearing sunglasses and the rock music's playing all they do is like fucking drive

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's great and the movie starts with tragic backstory

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like they're having fun and then things get bad

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But they're like the tragic backstory is more sort of like 50s greaser movie

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a tortured rebel, but it's cool and sexy kind of stuff before the reality of it mama won't let her have you know

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Fun right like the movie starts with

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: manslaughter

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It very quickly they start to unfold that like he witnessed her father's death

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like all this stuff is in there, but is done in this david lynch like sort of like pop art rock

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Rockabilly style that still feels kind of seductive

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you're right like watching this random woman die at the side of the road is just like

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're actually now starting to like process shit. Well, and the woman also is talking about her mother

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: She's saying I I she's gonna be so mad at me because I lost my purse or something

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: She's like worried that her mom will find out that she lost her purse

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's something about that like reminder

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: For lora dirn's character of like because her mother's always this like force that's following

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something about that like simplicity of

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the thing even in your like you're about to die and like the thing you're worried about is like

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Your mom being disappointed in you correct, right?

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Is like it feels like it like she can't not see

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Something in herself there, you know what I mean? It's and it's like way more poignant than

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Than I think I don't know. It's like kind of a beautiful

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Horrible moment. There's almost this sort of like live fast die young kind of thing that they're both

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And the pregnancy probably is the turning point of like oh, we have to think about the future for the first time

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, like how is this sustainable? We can't just keep driving right and fucking in new motels, right?

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_05]: There's now like right sort of stakes attached to our behavior

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: there's this amazing gesture that

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That uh lora dirn does and I would want to talk to you guys about it because it's like she puts her hand in her hair

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: In all of these moments where the sometimes you see it when she's like upset with her mom

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like kind of like she's like kind of like cry like screaming and she's got her hand in her hair

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But then it's also these like moments of like ecstasy where she like puts her hand. It's such a like

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: cartoon gesture of like

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00]: sexy like sexy girl, but it has this like

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Desire and horror in it. I don't know there's something I don't know enough about like the physicality that he would have worked with her on

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's that's some of my favorite stuff

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_05]: You know more than us about like those little physical choices that actors make

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That I feel like viewers sometimes wind up and even pick up on

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, like I just watched the remains of the day because I'm watching a lot of costume dramas right now

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is what you do when you have newborns because you just need something gentle

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like kind of and like there's this moment

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Anthony Hopkins where he puts his hand up. Yes

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_05]: We're just like Jesus christ. Yes, and like that

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_05]: He it's a you know one of the many moments where the emotional devastation has built to almost a crushing

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You know eruption and in this like society of manners

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like trying his hardest not gonna yell to show his vulnerability

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_05]: He's not going to break down and he's not going to read but like you see him bring his hand up just to almost like contain

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Clearly what he's trying to like just cover it a little bit

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he just doesn't want to totally be seen and you look at it. You're like this is the most incredible

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: organic

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: representation, but him thinking about how to do that is so interesting right like you know or maybe it was

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: James I've read being like anything. I mean can you feel like kind of like a little bit of a hand thing?

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I doubt it my guess is the actor but right you asked like was that did he do that for only one take?

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, sure. Sure. Sure. Was that something he like thought up on the day and and did was it something that he

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Wrote in the margins of his script immediately. Right. How do you do it? Explain it to us by all accounts, tat like

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think lynch is very like I hire you you figure it out

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, and he'll adjust things on the day, but I don't think he's someone who's like working with actors to establish a physical

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Vocabulary to build a character with them in that sense

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I did see like one moment in a behind the scenes where he goes up to her and he's like, okay

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to like kind of bring your arms up like this and he like does like a gesture

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's I don't know if it has like a meaning behind it

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Or if she just like imbues it with meaning because she like repeats them

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's also like her hand when she's having when she's orgasming that we like zoom on the hand that like

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Opens up and then it also opens up in the bobby larus or what's his name? Bobby?

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Bobby for yes, so there's like these there's there there is something about those like

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Gestures, and I think with remains of the day. I would imagine

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm jumping into his head that he probably was like as little what's that Tony H's head

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: if there's like as little motion as possible and then like the one movement

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That means like that he would have cut off all of the motion

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: In order to make any any choice of gesture like really important, you know

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you go about like when you're reading a script?

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you starting to map these things out on the day or are you just thinking about it in emotional intellectual terms and then figuring out

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Those moves once you're actually in it filming

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It really depends like sometimes I'll like work with I have like a coach who like works in that kind of stuff

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Often she does like dream work

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But she's working a lot in like gesture like a gesture that means something

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't mean that you like put it necessarily into the work

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But you like embody it in a way that it might come up when you're working

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of like create a vocabulary of movement for a character

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Or like create restrictions for a character or whatever it is that will like

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: give you kind of like

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Mmm the space within which to play

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would think like even Nick Cage who has seems seemingly like no limits

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: probably is like working within

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: a structure of like

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is the spectrum for this character or like

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Discovering the spectrum on the day or whatever. I don't know if I'm making that clear

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's different depending on yeah, I mean I think Lynch is like one of the only

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Dream work directors or at the very least he's one of the only ones who is a dream work director who makes films that are watchable

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of other people who would try to do this do not know how to

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01]: translate it into something

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and like

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Dream work for listeners who don't know is sort of this like a whole school of acting thought of trying to link things to like

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: subconscious feelings

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So that there is like you're pulling from something that feels powerful and primal within yourself

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: even if

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: The viewer would never totally get what it is that you're pulling from there, you know

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like rather than just trying to invest your emotions into it. It's like what are these like images and feelings that are

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly like deep enough inside me that I'm dreaming about them

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And how do I connect them to things in the script and Lynch?

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think similarly works with like these are like

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Memories or ideas or images or lines or feelings that have stuck with me and I put them in the script

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't really unpack them

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's some meaning there and then he sort of throws to actors like can you embody this

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so much of why like Dern is maybe the single best fit for his work of anyone

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Is like she is someone who seems so facile and like

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: quick

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: To be able to take on anything

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And find some connection to it without prep work because I don't think

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He's doing that prep work with them in advance

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Is like either recognizing. Oh that gesture you did is interesting that thing you did with your hand

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get a close-up of that and maybe we can repeat that in four other scenes

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Or he's saying I don't know why but can you do this thing with your arms?

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like I need that right now

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You do see him working on the performances that much on the day

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think he's working with them before filming that much

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It always sounds like when he hires people. He's like I just want you. I want your energy

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I might have very strong choices about the costume

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But then you show up and we'll figure it out

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And part of it is the flexibility to be like if I ask you to do it in a totally different way

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you go there don't be rigid and boxed into the quote-unquote correct way of doing the scene?

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she doesn't seem like she would ever be stuck in some idea of

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00]: What the character would be this way right?

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Let me open the dossier griff. We have to open the dossier. Okay. All right

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_05]: So here's some some facts about Wild at Heart blue velvet

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: David Lynch makes that film and then he has a bunch of projects

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't make there is a Marilyn Monroe project written by mark frost. We've sort of discussed

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's called venus descending or maybe goddess

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_05]: You never made that

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, there are his two famous unrealized projects Ronnie rocket none one simple one saliva bubble

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: we've talked about them in other episodes but at this point in time there was a version of

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: One saliva bubble that was almost Steve Martin and Martin short. That's correct. Yeah, which is a comedy

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know much like you know, I think you can read a script

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, but these two projects tap were like the movies every time he made a film

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like up next Ronnie rocketer once alive a bubble and he never got either one made

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_05]: They were both I think tied up in dino de loranta stuff and then his company fell apart and anyway

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: There was also an adaptation of a

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Nor crime novel that we don't know the name of that he set up a propaganda films

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is you know, the company that produced twin peaks

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and there he meets monti montgomery who will come up again

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_05]: But we've talked about him before on our episode of the loveless cattern bigelos movie, which he co-directed

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: He will play the cowboy in mohalla drive. I think this movie has a lot in common with the loveless and interest

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure biker post post modern biker deconstructing the archetypes of like 50s storytelling

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, monti montgomery hands him this novel bare berry gifords wild at heart the story of sailor and lula

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Saying I want to option this movie

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Monti montgomery wants to direct this movie interesting. I like this book. Would you like to produce it?

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_05]: david lynch

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_05]: reads the book and he's like um, I want to make this and you can produce it

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, sort of takes it over from him and he had warned him. He said this is great monti

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But what if I read it and I fall in love with it and I want to do it myself and monti said if that happens

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: You can do it yourself

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And so he reads the book and he says it was exactly the right thing at the right time the book and the violence in america

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_05]: At that moment late 80s, you know

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Merged and many different things happened in my mind and I called monti and I said I really want to do it

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, he really loved the relationship between sailor and lula

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He loves how they're so good to each other and love each other and treat each other with respect

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but he still felt like a modern romance like sailor is cool and masculine, but he's still tender

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't talk down to lula

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_05]: He wanted them to have this sort of equal relationship very free when it came to sex

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and then his other sort of um

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Incapsulation of his just like it's a picture about finding love in hell

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so he was sort of drawn I think to do yeah, whatever the love at the core of a very chaotic violence story

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh the the great uh, shea filmore

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh who uh runs the trivia night at night hawk among many other things

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Saw her last week marina. I went to the trivia night and she was uh, shea was going on about how much she loves david lynch

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And was like, you know when I was like a teenager

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd watch his movies and focus on how weird he is

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And now I watch them and I can't get over how unbearably sad they are

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's such a key thing of like a lot of people could look at sailor and lula on paper and be like

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, these are great like pop art archetypes

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And lynch immediately locks into it and is like this is meaningful

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: They matter their emotions matter

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I like want to cry thinking about their relationship

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch wrote the script very quickly

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Um gifford

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_05]: He's messed with the story a lot most importantly. He changes the ending

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But also he brings out some new side characters and stuff like that gifford reads the script and loves it

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_05]: He says this is great. Take the ball and run with it. I got nothing wrong with this

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch says they made the brighter things brighter and the darker things darker

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And gifford for whatever reason is just not dissatisfied

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and then the samuel goldwyn company which I think of as kind of a tony company like a

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, very very fancy

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of pictures

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Comes aboard

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_05]: and they um

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Read the script ois and the the ending isn't happy yet

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And they just they're like we just don't like the ending and lynch is like I don't like the ending either

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're like, well, why don't you change it lynch is like i'm gonna go change it dog gone it

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_05]: The ending of the book is they break up. It doesn't work out

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And the ending of the movie obviously basically is like leading that way and then

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_05]: He just is like no has like, you know the good witch tells him to be

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You know to not give up on also none of the wizard of awes stuff is in the book. That's all that's all coming from david lynch

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all lynch

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Which feels very tied to like this sort of american fairy tale thing

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But also this this book and in particular this movie

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That paints with like a very broad brush and bright colors

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And yet has like for a hundred years like drilled into everyone's brain

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He's become this language that we all can share of just like we all understand

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The shorthand of the wizard of awes it occupies weirdly a place in everyone's mind

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Drawing that comparison there

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I kept thinking while watching this because red rock west is only three years after this

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: John doll movie, which is a very good movie and is like cage and denny's hopper and laura flin boil like two other david lynch actors

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And is it on paper kind of similar like western neo noir 90s

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas cage badman movie

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And like a romance in this backdrop and that film's excellent

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's done as like the sort of like stripped down brutal. That's right heart-hitting version of it

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and you could have I imagine even a fairy giford's book is more colorful

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Adapted this in a similar way to that you could make like a pretty nasty movie not that this movie is in violent and scary

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Explicit and very dark and all that but like it's not really nasty. It's too sort of magic

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_05]: In a way, although what you were saying talking on is true. It's like it does curdle

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the first half is yeah, no, I'm just thinking of that one moment

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is like where you're saying it could have gone gone so dark

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They're driving in the car and the news is bad

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_00]: She like can't listen to the news anymore and she's like

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Turn on some music and she gets out of the car and then they just like

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He like goes through a few channels and everything is like

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's like rape murder death

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it gets to music and then they just start dancing

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's something about that that feels like

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're saying it could be so bleak

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something like hopeful and survivalist about the whole thing like about the way that they

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Is yeah continue to grab towards like

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Living. Mm-hmm. Well, like these two people have already at such a young age

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_01]: experienced so much sexual violence

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and so much like

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Other types of violence, you know

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like one of them has experienced so much sexual violence

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: The other one has perpetuated so much violence against other people

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Both in self-defense and for the sake of making living

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're both just like we're not this isn't getting to us

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not defining who we are. We're gonna like throw our arms up and go woo and like do Elvis poses

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_01]: If it's like too bleak, we're gonna change the like station and go to a cool rock song and then we can like dance, you know

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And that thing where he like almost gets into a fight with the guy at the rock club

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Diffuses it the last second and then grabs the microphone as like I need to sing an Elvis song

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Feels like him trying to recalibrate things back to like no, this is fun

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, this is fun. He also sings differently than he does in long legs, which is fantastic

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That his singing as a crooning like his crooning is different in both

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_00]: His rock crooning

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He has like he's got like levels

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got all kinds. Yeah, he's got range

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I really love Nicholas Cage

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Just saying it. Yeah, he's the best. He's the best

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just I'm repeating myself

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's so funny to watch this movie and place yourself in the mind of 1990

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And be like in five years. This guy is going to be

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_01]: synonymous with like mainstream Hollywood

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But in a weird way anyway, look during during is immediately the only person to play lula

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_05]: He's she's worked with Lynch before obviously sailor Lynch thought of as a cage is a very brave actress

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_05]: He has nerve and courage so he agrees with Tatiana

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been fighting for years

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_05]: He's been at loggerheads

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Cage great quotes from Nicholas Cage who gives great quote always always and forever

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But kind of surprisingly never worked together again outside of the industrial symphony. I guess they both got busy

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly says I always had a hankering to play this sort of character who would always who would do just about anything for the woman

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He loves I'm always attracted to these passionate unbridled romantic characters. But then the other quote I like is

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I've often played roles that are large and sort of manic and I wondered how it could be that ludicrous been in a very contained way

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Sailor's a lot worse to date than I've been in a while in a film

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a strong character who doesn't need to rant and rave to get attention

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: The challenge is to be mega cool in a way that will be totally absurd

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Because he is big

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_05]: But he's not doing too much of the cage like truly like yelling at the camera kind of no

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I can't believe someone just did that especially coming right off of vampires kiss

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is like just that just yelling. I also because it's also like important for him to seduce her

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like it's about her. Do you know what I mean? He's not like doing it for the audience

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like making himself hot for that character like he sailor's doing it for lula

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_01]: There has to be like an actual center to him that she can invest in as like a future for her life

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I also what like was thinking during this that when he makes his weird pivot into like action star

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: He is kind of doing

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Like uh sailor

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh at 50%

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Like when he gets into like gone in 50 seconds

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Like toned down sailor becomes his kind of action star persona

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right like the closest thing to just like what is neutral?

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas cage is like just a little bit of the Elvis thing

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the jackets well

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Right he's a little bit cool and absurd at the same time like this does become kind of

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_05]: This is home base. Yeah, you're right. You're right. This is like formula zero Nicholas cage for sure, right

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Willem Dafoe had auditioned for blue velvet

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_05]: They'd clicked then brings him in for this

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_05]: David Lynch says

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Willem gave a flawlessly perfect performance from start to finish bobby pru was a one-a-kind character and willem nailed it like nobody's business

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, later. He says that he lets a literal quote from david lynch

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Later, he also he does say he thinks the teeth helped him and uh

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Dafoe says that too that he read the screenplay and it says he has these funky teeth

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and uh, he sits down with david and david lynch says are you going to go to the dentist to get the teeth?

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And Dafoe's like, what do you mean?

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But he goes to the dentist and gets like an entire fake set of teeth that fit over his teeth

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_05]: They were like oversized and made his mouth be open

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_05]: All the time in this kind of like stupid slack jawed way

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And he says that completely unlocked how to behave as bobby pru

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Dafoe is so fascinating because he's talked so much. I mean he just like this

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Wooster group experimental theater guy

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's like i'm like objective based i'm like process based like just tell me what I need to do and I execute that the best that I can

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to get like hung up on trying to

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Justify a character's motivation

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's one of these guys kind of like cage who can like successfully work from the outside in

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Of like let me like obsess over the tangible details and then the rest will start to make sense to me

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of other actors if you gave them that

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Those teeth they would just play the teeth and it would overwhelm everything

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, the teeth would walk into the room before them totally and he was kind of like I can't crack the character until I get the teeth

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But i'm gonna like learn my lessons from the teeth

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Which like right if the teeth are like this then I can't close my mouth

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I smile it shifts my face in this way and he looks so crazy

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but then he starts to go well a guy who has this

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Then how does he talk and how does that affect people and like he starts to do the reverse math?

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Which I feel like he always does of like you tell me what you want and then i'll figure out how to make it make sense

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's such a good fit for lynching that way right

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Diane lad hated blue velvet. Mm which of course her daughter laura durn is in

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_05]: She told lynch

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_05]: This she told laura this and lynch this she said her quote was

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_05]: How could he let one of the most beautiful women in the world isabella rossolini who he was in love with

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Stand nude in front of the whole world and light her horribly

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_05]: So she was as a woman she took an exception to that but

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Then she gets a phone call from david lynch and he says dianna i've written a script and it's gonna star your daughter

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Nicholas cage

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's a starring role of the mother

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he basically it was just like it would honor me for you to take this role

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like sure after

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Lad and durn get oscar nominations together for rambling rose. Isn't it right before? Am I wrong? Let me find out

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you might be right. Um, yes, they of course obviously dian lad is lauren durn's mother. Yeah, no, that's the next year

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's crazier that they make the movie rambling rose together where they do the same thing again kind of

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Both get oscar nominations

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but this there's a trick. Yeah that lynch is playing but I think this is a trick lynch loves to play

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He loves hollywood generations. He loves to cast actors who have

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Famous parents or have some throwback connection, right? You know

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But also what you're saying makes sense with her performance having the energy of like

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want my daughter to be in a david lynch movie

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the way she looks at sailor with like absolute fear and disgust

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_00]: At 100% oh, that's so good. That's such a great read. She gets that shock oscar nomination

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say to some extent. Yeah, lures loses to whoopie from ghost, but she's incredible in them

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_05]: She's so good. Dian let's amazing in this movie

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_05]: It is like there's scenes together. It's like you say though. That's kind of like

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You shouldn't it should not work. She's just like screaming

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and like her character

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_05]: She should just feel zero note where it's just like yeah, she's just this obstacle, right?

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_05]: She just doesn't want this to happen

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So all she does is try to stop it and instead you kind of feel for her

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: In a weird sort of way tormented by it to the point that she's like vomiting into the toilet

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's so she's so yeah torn apart by this

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of powerful like I don't know like I as much as she's also like

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a looney tunes movie sometimes and she's a looney tunes character. Yeah

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and she's obviously literally the wicked witch and they throw water on her picture and it melts

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Watching all the lynch stuff in this sort of like concentrated a focus

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh as we as we do. Yes

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it really does like clarify for me how much

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: The great lynch project seems to be him

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly trying to make sense of how people can do evil things

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Like so many of his stories come back to these like horrible acts of violence that are committed against people

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And being like how can a human being do that?

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and so often it is this sort of like

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Unprocessed emotions within people that are driving them crazy that are making them sick that are making them vomit that are turning them into like

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Old universal horror monsters, you know

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like in this way where the performance has to be that tenor as you said like she's so tortured that she's like

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Smearing lipstick on her face and puking like everything like by herself. Yeah by herself in her house

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But I

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: She barely ever leaves her house. Yeah, this thing that I keep going back to that I never really focused on that I'm curious

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: your

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: read on pat is like

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: There's this elemental lynch I find fascinating that shouldn't work

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Where he will put such wildly different acting styles in the same movie in the same scene

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like not just he will ask his leads like during in cage to switch between these different modes

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was watching one of the early scenes with Diane lad and harry dean stan

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And you are like these are absolute

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Opposite ends harry dean stan is an actor who has never once seemed like he was acting on screen

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the trick of harry dean stan is just like does this guy know he's in a movie?

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: He just seems like a guy who rolled out of bed in his breathing, you know

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's there like playing the emotion so real and he's almost doing this remains of the day like

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The scene where he breaks down crying in the car and he's embarrassed that she's seeing the emotion in him

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And meanwhile she's next to him like screaming at the top of her lungs

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and playing like a cartoon version of angry and you're like

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: How can these two things exist in the same frame and the movie not collapse?

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking that too. I was in the scene where she's like crawling on the carpet

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's he's like sitting in the chair and there's this weird jazz music underneath the whole thing

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: The first half has like so much of this like weird like

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like jazz music that kind of like

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It somehow makes I don't know what the the choice is there, but it like

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Keeps it in this like absurd

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Place but doesn't like take enough of the sound away that you're like

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Nervous like you're it's like joyful. It's like fun. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, um, but he's he's like so heartbreaking

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: My god, he's so and and like I think imbues her too with like if he loves her like right there must be someone there, right?

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: totally

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And the two of them are so solidly in what their objectives are what they're you know how how heightened their

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: performances that it like

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like he never like seems embarrassed for her or anything like it's just so

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and I I do think the x factor is that like

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He probably wisely on top of dianne lia lad being like a great actor who had an incredible career up until this point

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Being like it being her real daughter is going to give it some extra juice

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I could ask her to go as big as possible as operatic as possible

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's still going to be playing it

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: In some sort of reality right because she genuinely cares that much about the person she's talking about

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And has that honest sense of protectiveness. I mean just to like zoom out

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: How insane the opening of this movie is right like the opening credits play out over fire and jazz music

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Then you go to like the grandest sort of location you've ever seen this like beautiful ballroom

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, nicholas cage comes downstairs and like a fucking jacket and slick back hair

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Doing his Elvis thing

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: A guy corners him and is like I hear you fucked her mom in the bathroom

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas cage kind of pretends that he did

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a little mysterious. You're not quite sure if it's true or not

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're strained to like here's this guy introduced with his hot girlfriend

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Then another guy a stranger comes up to him

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Compliments him on just having fucked that woman's mom in the bathroom

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they get into a knife fight

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas cage kills him and then it cuts to like two years later. He's gone to jail for this crime

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And like very quickly thereafter the movie starts doing flashbacks to

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The encounter that he had with diana lad in the bathroom where she basically kind of like

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Confronted him like it wasn't yes, what at all what we thought it was right

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like a rasham on where you're seeing it from different perspectives

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But you keep seeing different portions of the interaction which only gets more and more confusing

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Where like the first time you see it she comes in super drunk and is desperately trying to get him to fuck her

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And being really explicit and you're like, okay, so did she frame him

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Out of like embarrassment that he rejected her

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: But then when they're in the stall together, she's like

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Directly threatening him

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Because of perhaps his awareness or adjacency because he's been a low life crimes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: He has enough attachment to low life behavior

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right her to threaten blackmail. She's fucked with low life behavior as well

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What she's framing as like I don't want my daughter getting sucked into this like dirty world is

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I've spent too much time in that dirty world and he knows too much

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't need my version my daughter's perception of me being destroyed by this guy

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[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: so

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the setup of the film

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Then he gets out of prison

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: They go to a hotel and he gets his snakes in jacket back, which is an expression of his uh personal

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_05]: What's the line?

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Brendan says it all the time expression of his personal. What is it? I remember the first time

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Individuality, right? I first saw this movie in college

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a symbol of my individuality and my belief in personal freedom. Yes, right

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Which was like didn't he get that didn't he choose to bring that jacket in wasn't that his

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say that line feels like something cage basically said cage mission statement

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Of like you think

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: In jacket just because it looks cool, but actually it represents

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Individuality, but then it's also cute that he's like thanks babies

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I never tell you this jacket here represents a simple man. She's like yeah like 50,000 times. Yeah, that's all you say

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_05]: They go she says it with so much love. She loves him and he loves her

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_05]: They go have sex and then they go see a speed metal band

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and then they get in a big fight because a guy like bumped up against her in a speed metal concert

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like it's a costar and you know, it

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: He does the same thing at lost highway where you're like when he cuts in

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Present day music it feels jarring. What the hell? Why are they at this concert?

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not stuck in the 50s

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: But then he brings it back to the 50s by singing love me to her priestly style

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_05]: They go to a hotel

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_05]: They have sex again and they're like, you know what we gotta just go to california

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Forget my parole because we're in cape fear, right? We're in like oh, yeah the carolinas

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But let's just drive across this like super heightened pillow talk

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the way they talk about each other's bodies

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: The way they describe the sex that they've just had

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're in like a dime store novel

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're they're loving it like the sort of disconnection

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Different from the second half where they're like not having sex

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: One of them's in bed. They're both closed all the time

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's so low energy in the second. He's like, I just gotta go to sleep when he says

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: That in the second half of the wait, there's that moment where he's like, yeah

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I just gotta go to sleep right now because he doesn't want to talk to her about bobby peru

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_05]: You're kind of devastated. You're like what?

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Come on sailor always has time to talk to lula. No, it's the darkness is there from the beginning

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But like they're sort of playing the role of being like young and in love and unencumbered

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're trying to push that for as long as they can and ignore the other shit

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I think when I saw this in college though, I was like, yeah, this is what like right white hot romance is

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just like, you know having constant sex in motels while talking about how like amazing it all is

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And then having to get on the road

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh and the movie is you're so with it

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: But as I think I often forget about this movie

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It runs out of steam intentionally

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_05]: To remind you that yes, you cannot simply outrun all your problems, especially if it's like lipstick covered dyan lad trying to kill you

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Like she can't just be run away from

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a hard one to run away from

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Um and as the movie goes on they witnessed this car accident. Uh, as you said basically right in the middle of the movie

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, sherelyn fen right playing the young victim

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, she's so good

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: He cast her in twin peaks first and then this off of that is that right?

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so. I think yeah because he does the pilot or twin peaks before this and then the show after this

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_05]: If that makes sense

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And she is a man and right and it is this kind of like

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_05]: The illusion's been shattered a little bit

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The vibes are now bad and now we're in big tuna, texas. Yeah

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_05]: wonderfully named town

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: This is mostly a texas movie. Mm-hmm

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It begins and ends in california, but most of it's texas and I guess a little new orleans

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's mostly shot

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_05]: In those three places. Yeah, huh when you look for big tuna. It says bit jim helpert. He's jim big tuna in the office

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I think of bill parcells right the famous big tuna

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Now I think jim helpert and like for some reason big tuna is like where sailor is from right?

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_05]: This is right. This is the plot of them. I'm trying to tell you guys the plot of wild at heart

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to help with the plot please

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh big tuna, you know, he's got his old flame perp per dita derango who is isabella rosalini looking great

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh with oh my god with the blonde hair an incredible look. I mean just every time I watch it. I'm like that can't be her

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's something it's bizarre how much the hair changes her entire vibe

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And then feels like her eyebrows are even darker and bushier than they usually are

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: In contrast also her last scene in the movie. It's like she's visibly wearing a wig

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you guys notice that maybe they shot it later or something? Well, like the

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Her first chunk of scenes it looks like her hair has just died, right and her final scene in the car

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the wig is not fitting properly

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You see it's like too far back her real hair sticking out from underneath. It's not just like the wig looks fake

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not attached properly and I think that's intention

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know because I could also see it being like she comes out of the trailer

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The wig isn't pinned down. She's like, I gotta fix this and Lynch is like no, that's perfect

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they do look kind of that scene where they're driving in the car and it's but it's bobby

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Peru and her right? Yes in like the same seats that the two that

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That our heroes were in and then this character

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Is the rosy pares right exists in other berry giford novels, correct

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: There's lots of berry giford novels about sailor and lula and this world. She's like the ray nicolette

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Weaving through all of these so there is a different movie called perty de gerango

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Also called dance with the devil which stars rosy pares and hot bar down with one of the worst haircuts in history

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he does look bad. Yeah, uh, which is yes, uh, also he looks bad

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_05]: How does he look bad? I I'll show you. Yeah, I'll send you a picture

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he looks very silly in this movie. Um

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And uh, but anyway, yeah, and so she's kind of there and she's

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Sympathetically lending an ear, but she also knows that dian leds trying to kill them

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And then bobby peru shows up and it's just like the worst vibes of all time person

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But they can't leave because lula is pregnant and sick

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_05]: In bed, I guess that's sort of what I do spend some of the middle of this movie being like just leave

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like don't hang out with bobby peru. He's obviously no good

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's almost the sense of like entropy kicking in. Yeah, right where they cannot figure out

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's like they've gotten to the point that they never thought they'd have to actually meet

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: There are people who aren't thinking about their future

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And are trying to run away from their past. Did you did you send a picture? I sent a picture to you

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really pretty. I mean the guy's not afraid of bad haircuts

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I was gonna say within a can and a wild hair choices. It's not good. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've heard that movie's good though

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. Yeah, I'll check it out. Yeah. I don't yeah, I believe you. I mean, I love Rosie Perez

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm being honest. Okay

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Feels like you think I'm being sincere right now, but I'm into it just trying to break through this wall

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: You're constructing data. I'll do it. I'll do anything you want me to do

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, I think it's just like these are two people who never thought about actually having to make

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: these types of tough decisions

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we haven't mentioned that like

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the flashback the horrible flashback lula has to her rape when she's a teenager

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: from this sort of family friend

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That then when bobby peru kind of accosts her

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh in the hotel. He's in the motel no hotel

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_05]: He's also kind of summoning up like her worst sort of nightmares, right? Right. I mean and she's uh,

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Talked about this from like early on in the film. She's like told the story to sailor

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: um, this is sort of the like

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Fake uncle who filled the void when her father died and the narrative she'd always been told is that her father

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: self-emolated

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That he like set himself on fire right? Yeah

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And what we're what we come to understand as the movie went on is uh, why am I forgetting the name?

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And not cactus. Uh, what's the um

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Cactus is the other guy. There's so many like a bad criminal man in this movie

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, is that guy named cactus marcella santos? Yeah jay freeman's character. Yes. Yes. Mr. Reindeer

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank you the english guy. I don't know how I got to cactus. Yeah, I don't know

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But but that he was uh, perhaps set on fire, right, right. This was not intentional. He was murdered

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He was murdered. Yes

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a cut scene from the film of the murder of harry dean stanton

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_05]: That's very long and torturous that lynch apparently showed

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It two test screenings and basically like almost all of the audience walked out during it

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And he did after one he was like, well, let me try it one more time

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But after a second time he was like, I guess I need to cut this back a lot

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Also like the most sympathetic character in the movie

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Too painful to watch him get punished. Yes. He sailor agrees to

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Rob a feed store with bobby peru. It's such a

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why i'm criticizing the realism of this

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: peru is this classic like

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynch archetype of one person who seemingly is the manifestation of everything that's bad. He's not a good guy

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and and there's the notion of like you need money because you have

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh lula's in a family way

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just do one crime with me right. I have a gun for you. I have a mask for you. No one's gonna get hurt

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_05]: They robbed the place bobby peru immediately opens fire on everybody basically and then is like your next buddy

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and it turns out nikolas cage has been loaded with blanks

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It also has already sexually assaulted lula at this point like comes in with the pitch after he has

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean and that scene is such a good. I think illustration of what like

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: When when when increasingly in the last, you know, 15 years when women have felt more comfortable like sharing their stories of these kinds of

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: horrible incidents

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And stupid people will respond by being like why didn't you just punch them in the face and run out of there?

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know like how did you stay in the room?

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think durin plays this so well of the actual just being frozen

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, and there's like that horrible thing that I think she's contending with which is like

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The hand thing happens again in that scene and to me that feels like

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Part of her is like also waking up again in a way like she's she's been refreshing it sure

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like not that it's like, you know, right or good

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But that there's something about this this encounter

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And this um danger like, you know, we've seen her be aroused in a dangerous situation in the past

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and so there's something about this that like shamefully also triggers that in her and I think that

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so complicated. And I don't know exactly what is going on in that scene

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also shot in like a weird porn way in the beginning

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like such a wide shot. It looks like it's on a stage

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And that yes that motel room is the most like stagy of all the environments in the movie

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and especially in that scene it like backs up like almost to the edges of the walls

[01:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like brightly lit and they're just like sort of these two small

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: objects moving within

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: A very wide frame and it's very strange suddenly in the like sort of visual

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: vocab of the movie like it feels very like

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Jarring and and it feels like that thing of like the unwritten rules of behavior are like slowly being

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: eroded in this way where like he comes in and is like you want to fuck me

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And she says no 20 times. She says it every way. She's obviously completely repulsive and they have absolutely nothing to do with each

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like an insane, you know saying it verbally

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: She's saying it with her body

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: She's saying it with her energy and he keeps moving closer and closer to her and she's freaking out more and more

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the moment when he actually makes contact and it's like she freezes

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: That's when she starts she stops pushing back as aggressively and you're watching it going like

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Is she enjoying this has something shifted?

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Why is she becoming like complacent with this?

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Is she too terrified to move? I do think it's what you're saying of like she's told

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: The stories about her uncle to sail her early on but in a way where she's like kind of packaged it neatly

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a terrible thing that happened to me and I like hate it and I've come to terms with it and it doesn't define me

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But then when the actions are being repeated it becomes like insurmountable

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: In the same way that now like she's thinking about the abortion she had in relation

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: To her current pregnancy

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like this pattern that she's found her life in right like even running away hasn't

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Stopped this thing from like continuing to haunt her and as you said like sailor is the exact right amount of danger for her

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: She clearly has caught up in a pattern where her like love language is tied to this sense of like

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Edginess and living carefree and breaking rules and whatever

[01:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's what lynch recognized in the book of like he is emotionally intelligent

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: He does listen to her, you know, it's just the right balance of the two

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And bobby peru is only the bad shit

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Right and the power in ballot like they're not looking at each other equally like sailor and lula do

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like from a totally warped

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Um perspective. Yeah, it's right. So gruesome. She doesn't tell sailor about that

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't know how bobby peru knows that she's pregnant

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And he feels so discombobulated by this like pressure of like do I actually need to figure out how to be

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: A solid person now

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if we have a child we can't just keep driving forever

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And getting into fights at heavy metal concerts, and I guess that's why he's robbing a feed store because they will need money

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. It's no longer that they just need like

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You know gas in the tank and you know jizzing his balls

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I don't know what they need like what they eat even like I don't understand how they exist

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Except it just seems like they fuel each other

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And now it's you know now it's not gonna work anymore

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I would maybe not rob a feed store in the middle of fucking nowhere

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But no the plan is very short-sighted because you're not like look we robbed this one guy

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Each of us makes it out with five million dollars. You never have to worry about five thousand dollars

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Bobby peru doesn't come to him with something where it's like if you do this one crime with me your son is set

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: He's just like let's just do it. Who cares right? It's like five thousand dollars

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that's not gonna get you through labor

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he blows his head off in the greatest way. It is so crazy. I can only look

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I saw this movie in college on my little television in my room

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember I rented it, you know and I was so pumped for it and it was great

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But imagine like seeing this movie live 1990

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Being like I don't know where this is going

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But the bobby peru showdown is so tense and then five minutes later

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_04]: He shot his own head off of his body with a shotgun by mistake like like it was a balloon

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's just like landed on it wrong

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: This shot was altered for america in britain. It's bloodier in europe and or elsewhere

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was this movie was gonna get an nc 17 and they slightly unblooded it

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You can see the differences. I think the dvds here have finally caught up to the unrated version

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure. I I think I think so, but anyway, it was a notorious bit of violence

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Wild to me though that like there's so much like

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like violence in this movie that isn't just like, you know shot like somebody's shooting their head off

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But like violence towards lula and that that would be the issue

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the of course red paint all over

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the absurdity of the mpaa where right you can have the the vilest content

[01:24:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But if it's not like gory enough, they're like, yeah, whatever sure you can do that

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Like yeah, like you can have the most upsetting content. We should also acknowledge we had to find

[01:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: An illegal upload of this movie for you to watch attack because you're like on the road filming

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You were away from your physical copy and this is one of those movies that is currently in an absolute like rights void

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Where it is not streamable anywhere. It's not rentable anywhere. It's out of print on blu-ray

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean I have the shot blu-ray, but yeah, I assume it's because this was like a

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Polygram Samuel goat like these companies are odd

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like lynch has like, you know so thoroughly hitched his wagon to criteria and is like you folks are the preservers of my catalog

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You keep my movies in circulation

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Rialto at Janice like plays them at revival theaters

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're streaming on criterion collection and this is one of the last ones

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That is not part of the criterion deal. I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yes hard hard to watch now

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: As there's one call out as we like talk about, you know, bobby peru being this like wild shift in the movie

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: The prelude to bobby peru is like

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They stop in this town and then you're introduced to four of the weirdest guys

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Sitting around a table like you get four weird guys and then they're like you think these guys are weird me bobby peru

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like bobby peru is like the aristocrats

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right in the marmalam version of the joke the classy. Yeah, right

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: John lorry's in is that john lorry? Yes. Yes. Uh, john lorry. You got jack nance, right?

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got uh, frank callison who's one of those ultimate that guy actors

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he's prude. Taylor vince one of those guys. Yes. Yes. Uh, great guys

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, um, and this is it for them, right? It's just that it's basically just that scene

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just to be like, oh here are four weird dudes with weird david lynch energy and a bobby peru comes

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It just one ups them all there's also the freddy jones monologue at the bar

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is another just one of those the guy just a scene of a guy being weird freddy jones

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously wait, is that the guy with the munchkin voice? Yes, correct. Yeah, he's got a munchkin voice

[01:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They like a big tufty hair. Yeah. Yeah. That's what that was a reference to right? Absolutely. That was supposed to be

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's like a lollipop guilt. Yes. I mean, uh, right there's this movie which I have not seen called lynch os

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you seen it griff? Yeah, i'm not a terrific fan of it

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure, uh, which is a documentary about his obsession with wizard of os right?

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know much else about it. It's like a two hour video

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Runs a little thin if you ask me

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I've noticed that david lynch likes the wizard of os right, um, but even like speaking of

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Jack nance is this his no, he's in lost highway lost. I was the last

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh jack nance. Yeah. Yeah, that's his last performance for lynch before he dies

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But they like roll jack nance out you think he's gonna be the ultimate heightening of the weird dudes

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: His character's name is double o spool pretty good name

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And his opening line is my dar my dog barks some

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's right. That's what he's he delivers it beautifully mentally you picture my dog

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I have not told you the typo dog

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I have perhaps you might even picture toto from the wizard of os but I can tell you my dog is always with me arf

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he says arf. He says arf. Just perfect

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: How many times does arf ever been said in cinema by a human?

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not that or a human as human not a human as a dog not the shaggy dog or right right right

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Prudinski the night bitch the night bitch, of course

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We almost pay our respects to the night bitch. She is coming. I'll hail the night bitch night bitch coming

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, oh lord she comes not your heads

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So the last chunk of uh

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Wild at heart and again as we've mentioned like in this middle part nicholas cage sailor's energy has dwindled

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And it feels like it only comes to life when bobby prulich points a gun at him

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Then finally he's got a little fight in him left, but then he goes to prison

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Now for seven years six years lula has their child and then they reunite and uh, he meets his son

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: He's like well, i guess you're a muslin, you know like and it seems kind of like a big bummer

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But almost immediately is like you don't know me. It'd be easier if I just left right

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_05]: He basically is immediately pulling the I gotta get out of here. I'm no good for you

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And it feels like the movie is over

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he sees sherrilee as the glint of the good witch in her bubble from the wizard of os the movie

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_05]: We've referenced it. Yeah, yeah

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I would have noticed david lynch likes a little bit and uh, he's kind of into it

[01:29:22] [SPEAKER_05]: She says don't turn away from love sailor

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And he uh, I know he's already he's had the fight with the men

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And he used a homophobic slur against them and then he apologizes

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He apologizes

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And uh runs after lula and uh sings lovely love me tender to her as a way of reuniting with her

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Sending the audience is out great knows. I think feeling happy

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe distress nonetheless by this sort of like odd violent movie they saw yeah, but

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Hopeful. Yeah, but I also think some people are then like is he fucking with us

[01:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Why does this movie swerve into this happy magical ending at the end?

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, right and I do think it's very

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: intense

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Right in a way like the um

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: The swerve

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So intense that you can almost feel like the guy adapted a book with a bad a sad ending

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And then at the last five minutes wrote a few more pages that are like and then there's a happy ending

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And if it wasn't david lynch, it might not work at all. It works fine for me watching the movie

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't care like the the the swings in energy are sort of part of the

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Movies general swings in energy right? I I think so yeah

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's like an undercurrent of like is this just like them grasping at something that

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Makes them feel young again and then like what happens. I'm always interested in like what happens after he finishes this song

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: What happened like when he's just like the song's done and then they like have to walk over to the car

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And like get in the car and then they have to figure out what they're gonna have for dinner

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Is is life going to be romantic or is it just going to go back to

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Life that's I mean his final realization and you don't know how he's actually gonna

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Be able to ride it out, but that he's like I gotta just try to do

[01:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: day by day life

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like she's now had six years of like being a parent

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And presumably having some more structured life that I have been deprived of

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Which we don't see one second of and he wants to run away from it now

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Her hair is very her hair is slick. So yeah, I know that she's gotten her shit together

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: She got her shit together. I love the ending of knocked up a movie

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think about the ending specifically a lot

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I do too and I think a lot of people miss red at the time

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Where they have been fighting for half of the movie at that point

[01:31:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, then they just have the baby they make up

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm putting air quotes around it a little bit and they drive home with the baby and the ending is happy

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: They're gonna have the baby together. They don't do then the graduate thing of like what now no

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: An innocuous joke the movie ends on him making some joke about traffic

[01:32:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and like you're kind of like are they

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Is this gonna work out number one?

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And two even if it does work out i.e. They raise this baby together and are married

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that gonna be

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Wonderful for them. I don't know like maybe the movie is kind of about like

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: You just kind of have to fit your life around what's happened to you

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, I don't know why i'm comparing it to wild at heart, but in wild at heart

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like if you sit down for one second and you're like, yeah, wait, what are they gonna do next?

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't know. I don't know how their life is gonna work or whatever. It's also the fascinating thing about the time jump

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Which as you said tat she's

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Transitioned to a more mature hairdo

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. She's been raising this kid alone

[01:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Like something shifted within her that he clearly immediately like pushes back against

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And is like it'd be it'd be easier if you never knew me

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like you you two are fine on your own

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't quite know what his life is going to look like now

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Like she's a different person

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of get the sense that he spent like six years in jail

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Just still being sailor ripply and ready to come out and put the jacket back on

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And do his fucking thing

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like they're not just gonna be like cranking the music

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And like riding with the top down for the rest of time

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the scariest thing to him is he doesn't know what that looks like

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't know if it's gonna work out

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's at least decided he wants to try yeah

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But she goes off and at one point she like gets out of the car and she's like

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It has a moment where she like can't where she's just like crying

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like is that like the

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Disappointment of seeing him again

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like you build up this person in your head and then you're just standing in front of them

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Or is he gonna leave or is it like what is it? I don't I don't remember exactly what she says at the end there, but

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I think yeah, they're almost like two things of

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this person failing to live up to the vision or the picture you've been holding on to in your head for years

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: While he was gone or is it like you're reintroduced to this guy and you realize how much you've changed

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Yeah, and maybe he's stuck in the same place right. He's still the snakeskin jacket guy

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Ben you haven't weighed in

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Feel like walled in hearts of ben movie. Oh for sure about a dang ass freak or two

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's some freakery style choices. Oh my god. Yeah, this is such a movie just for

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like its style has been like

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh referenced in a many of a fashion brand. Yeah, sure. I like I feel like people always are looking to this film

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I'll say

[01:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Hachi machi. Oh, thank you

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Couldn't have said it any better myself. Booga booga my eyes are bursting out steam coming out of my ears

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm playing this film critic. That's really all I have to say

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay

[01:35:05] Okay

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, griff, uh

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you feel better or worse about this movie removed from the nicolas cage before we do like the box ups

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Watching in the nicolas cage context was interesting because it was also

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I've been doing a similar thing now where I've been trying to go through michael keaton's filmography

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: In chronological order under less duress. Yeah, it was take is your time on that one

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Made less fewer films

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I'm not rewatching as many of the ones I've seen before

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it does become this distorted effect and then this was all like leading up to beetle juice beetle juice

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I'm like so caught up in the language of how this one guy operates

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And thinking about his place and time

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And like what all these movies were as decisions

[01:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know like watching them in order. It's like, what was he trying to do?

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_01]: What was he responding to or like trying to overcorrect from

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The last movie or what was he working towards trying to change the way people saw him?

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And so the first time I watched this it was in a that kind of context for cage

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I you know wrote this whole fucking piece for an ipad only magazine that was never published

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: About like feeling like I was time traveling through 30 years of nicolas cage's life and all his like

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: hopes and dreams and ambitions

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And this just felt like it was one of those movies in the middle

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly one of the better ones where I was primarily looking at it through like cage is just trying shit

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like throwing everything at the wall. This is one of the early times where he's like

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Been minted enough that people trust him and they want his thing and his thing is proven

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's with the right director who's encouraging him

[01:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I I'm you know watching it this time. I'm much more in the linch of it

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing that's most interesting about this film to me is

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he talks so much about after dune

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, not wanting to adapt anything ever again

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That he like hated the feeling of being beholden to a book

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And not being able to answer everything himself because it didn't come from him

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And needing to like fight the studio on things versus like this is my vision

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You just have to accept it

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Versus them having their own ideas of how it would look or whatever

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And then this is only six years later and he's adapting a book that inspired him. I mean, it's the

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_05]: It's really the last time he does that obviously like the straight story is based on

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_05]: A you know true story, but he didn't write that movie anyway

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And it comes in as a finished script and he just decides to direct right

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is the last time he's doing that but clearly he had such a connection to barry giffords writing

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And then they worked on a movie together later

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's most interesting to me about this is just this feeling of like

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: What did he latch onto so strongly in this that he felt it overwrote his own strategy

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it makes total sense when he says it's just like it spoke to the violence of like late 80s america to him

[01:38:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And I get that like it's a way for him to reckon with things in his own special way

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Bobby peru and also like him making this

[01:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Simultaneous bobby peru him making this simultaneous with the great twin peaks experiment

[01:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is all you know if it had run for as long as they hoped it would run

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Would have been about these never-ending cycles of violence. Sure, you know, do you like twin peaks?

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever done that?

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Done it watched it. Yeah. Have you ever lived it?

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I've lived it. I'm from sascage one baby. Yeah twin peaks as you get

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. Twin peaks would never have evened out. It would always be about new

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's happening again. Yes, exactly

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and like his dream was that they would never solve the laura palma mystery

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But when they were forced to solve it, he was like great, then they'll just be a new crime

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It's about how these things keep happening

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And then when he's forced not forced to but when he like makes a movie to try to put an ending on the series

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That everyone felt unsatisfied by he makes the movie that is like

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It could argue fire walk with me has a version of a happy ending

[01:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Has an ending but that movie is also just about living in the cycles of darkness

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a movie that's stuck in a loop where you know the outcome

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, you're working towards a bad ending. You're filling in a gap

[01:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Of suffering

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Towards an inevitable outcome that we know is horrible

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting for him to make this movie at this point where he reads the book and is like

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want like a magical fairy to come down to literally have it be laura palma

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And like give them a magical release of like hey guys stand up and like step up

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And just kind of do the right thing and try to engage with normal life

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that was him saying that like that that's his that that was his

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: vision like his world view

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know there is escape

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what this is what's also interesting about him

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Is he's talked so much about like his failed relationships in his life and his like kids with different women

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And how he like does struggle to connect with other people

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: How like he is so first and foremost married to his art

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But and not just his art, but this idea of like I wake up. I smoke five cigarettes

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I have 12 cups of coffee and I paint

[01:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and then like and then I meditate for these hours like he lives this very rigid life

[01:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And he talks about like

[01:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I I keep warning people not to marry me

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you talk about this. I don't know how to like change my lifestyle

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And his lifestyle feels totally wild at heart

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels like all the characters kind of pulled apart

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know like that he could be any of those threads and his lifestyle isn't like

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Quote-unquote dangerous or rebellious in this kind of way

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And if anything it's like very controlled, you know

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: He talked so much and I've been saying this a lot this series

[01:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But about like he's like I wear the same thing. I eat the same thing

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I do the same thing at the same times because I'm trying to build my life around routines

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So that when I stop

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: My brain has more space for creativity

[01:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm eliminating the

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh decision-making process for most aspects of my life

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But it also feels like this

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It like allows a container so that then the brain can go wild

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it can go off in directions that aren't that linear rigid

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's so little rigidity to what he makes right

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like my life is based on like 10 presets that I don't question

[01:41:32] [SPEAKER_01]: If anything once every two years I change what the three meals I eat a day are

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But they're still going to be the same three things

[01:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I could do a whole brand overhaul, but then I'm committing to that for like two more years

[01:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And with his children, I think he's always sort of like I don't really know how to like build them into my lifestyle

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know not that he's like emotionally distant or dismissive

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But that and same with his like romantic partners

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it does feel like that's sort of what's speaking to him. It is interesting

[01:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: He gives this movie the happy ending of the guy choosing to like double down and try it

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_01]: When that has often not worked for him

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there anything else you want to say about the film Tatiana before we played the box office game?

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, I think

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The twice two times I've seen it now or whatever it's been

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The first time I feel like was such a wash of just like joy at like the playfulness of it

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I like didn't even like glom on to half the stuff that was happening

[01:42:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just like this is just a this is a ride and it felt like

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It felt like the music and all of his

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Choices were really like making you feel that sense of like you're saying like the like innocence of falling in love

[01:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: The first and the the heartbreak of it turning

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second time I watched it. I was like so zeroed in on

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Um these amazing visual patterns

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's also like what you're talking about about the like that there is like patterns even visually in what he brings back

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And that the cycle even though it feels like um chaos

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There are these little like touchstones of like repeated images

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That work on you

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And that aren't necessarily linear but like drop in at different moments these like emotional

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't feel like it's like a cold film at all

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: um, it feels really

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Full of beating heart. Um, yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, but I don't have anything smart to say about it except that I

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it a lot. Thanks. I think it's really good. I think it's a good movie you guys. Oh, yeah hot take

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Griffin this film came out august 17 1990 was it it was a mild hit

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Is this is sort of the summer of lynch like you said right he's kind of hot stuff because of who in peaks

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_05]: He gets the palm door

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, he gets a lot of sort of newspaper coverage. I feel like in a you know big kind of way cage and dirner on the come up

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly. These are these are sort of right up and coming stars and uh, it makes 15 million dollars

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is like not bad for a summer art movie essentially

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but it's opening number 10. Okay at the box office and sort of semi-limited august 1990

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, dude. This is a weird fun odd

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_05]: List, okay. So was ghost already out? No ghost griffin you have already guessed is number two at the box office having been out for six weeks

[01:44:31] [SPEAKER_05]: It's made a hundred million dollars and obviously it is one of the hits of the summer

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And she makes the pottery wasn't it the highest grossing film of 1990 am I wrong about that? I mean

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_05]: If not the highest grossing

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The number one home alone and pretty women are the other pretty well those come out later

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, homo Christmas movie die hard two still in the top 10. No die hard two is number 11

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow at the box office. Have you seen ghost tantiana? Do you like ghost? Oh my god

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Story about ghosts saw it first time about a year ago. Wow didn't think I was gonna survive it

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I wept

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_00]: uncontrollably like

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: To a point where I was like in a little bit of a depression for two days afterwards

[01:45:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like that worked really well that movie incredibly cheesy

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_01]: David recently I don't

[01:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Referred to it as a movie that has rocks in its brains which caused some guys

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I talked to my therapist the day after I was like I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be okay for a little bit

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I support you completely

[01:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It is one of those movies. It's kind of insane that you're like wait. It's just called ghost. What's it about?

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he died. He's a ghost

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like what is the plot of the movie and they're like

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he was in love with her and they made the pottery and now he's a ghost and like you're like, how was this a

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_04]: $600 million like

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Sensation and you're like that but you're like what genre is it all of them? Yeah, it's like

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a romantic comedy horror

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Mystery

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like is it good and people are like I mean not really like but it it does completely work

[01:46:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Like if it works if I'm gonna watch a Swayze movie. I'm gonna watch dirty dancing

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, which I think is perfect in every single way

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh ghost is a little more

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_05]: You know goopy and so kind of like it's trying to make you cry and all that

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is just one of those movies that yes when you look back on it, you're like what but when you're watching it, you're like

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Ghost is is total eclipse of the heart for me

[01:46:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's the way that I feel when I was 10 and I heard that song for the first time that song the first time I heard it

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, I didn't know music was allowed to sound like this

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct like

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's but it works that it keeps going. There's that you keep going like, okay. I think I got the song

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I know what

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, number one of the box office though is sort of a comparison. It's a horror film. Okay

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sequel. It's a straight sequel. Is it absolutely is it one of the icons of horror? Yes, it is

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, although this is an odd series and

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Its sequels are often only very loosely connected to each other

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and this is one of the most disconnected. It has I would say

[01:47:19] [SPEAKER_05]: For filmmakers, I would say it has the most famous jump scare of all time

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It has the most famous jump scare whenever you find those lists on websites of like

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_05]: You know the most famous jump scares. It's always basically number one. Is it the exorcist three?

[01:47:34] [SPEAKER_05]: three William peter bladdy's film

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Based on his don't tell me what this moment is because I know I'm supposed to watch it and I was told I shouldn't know

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: What this jump scare? I won't tell you and you should watch it. Uh, have you I bet you've never seen it

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like you're not a big exorcist guy griffin. I love the original

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but you've never really delved into the exorcist world

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_01]: No, and I feel like two and three were both hated when they came out and now have defenders

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, two was hated

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Three was a sort of solid hit but people are kind of like, huh?

[01:48:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Like this is an exorcist movie because it's really just William peter bladdy the writer of the novel

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Adapting another book he wrote called legion which is not connected to the exorcist and directed himself because they were

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: How do we get back to what people liked about this and kind of just vaguely bringing it into

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Exorcist land, but it's really basically a movie about like using the occult supernatural powers to catch the zodiac killer

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So a shout out

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh shea film or once again because this happened at trivia and i'm giving away what the answer is but you're gonna love this question

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But it did boggle our mind until I think Marie finally cracked it

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was like what franchise has filmed entries in these years and only these years

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yeah, right and when you see the exorcist spilled out like that it makes you're like, how could that be possible?

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_05]: 73 77 90

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_05]: 2004 2005 2023, right it is weird

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_05]: given how

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Universal the exorcist movies are and like always enduring right people are always watching the exorcist

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're like it's successful enough that they're not giving up on it

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But the gaps are so big and then you're like, how could there be back to back?

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_01]: 04 and 05 but not 06 and you're like

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh because they made the same movie twice with two different directors and then released both of them

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_05]: They did they did do that

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, george c scott of course is the star of the exorcist 3 gang

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It came in very quiet and small performance and linda blairs not in that one. No, but uh, jason miller is okay

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Number two is ghost number three. It was number one the week before it is a sort of

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Sexy horror movie with a bunch of young stars

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_05]: In 1990 in 1990 it's all flat liners. It is flat liners

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_05]: With c for southerland canada zone

[01:49:43] [SPEAKER_05]: C for someone you can claim him tap

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I got him

[01:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Julie rober's billy baldwin

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Oliver plat and

[01:49:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Mr. Bacon

[01:49:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I know it mostly is back when I used to really care about six degrees of kevin bacon. It was a great one

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh that connects you to a lot of people. Yeah, uh, it's a

[01:50:01] [SPEAKER_05]: That is a movie with rocks in its brain. Yes. That is a stupid movie

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty fun pretty fun joshua mucker movie where he's pumping the dry ice and everyone's hot

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And feathered hair and all that and then they did their like remake legacy cool and everyone's like you're pushing it guys

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Get out of you can't make us reinvestigate. I was at tiff

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I've said this before but I was a tiff

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: One year that that movie was the september release right the early the labor day horror movie

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I had to watch the trailer for a million times at the scotia bank theater

[01:50:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Just playing over and over again while I waited in line

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, shout out toronto where we're tatiana currently is number four at the box office knew this week griffin

[01:50:38] [SPEAKER_05]: A very strange movie one i've never seen crime comedy. Hmm. I've probably seen it. Yes

[01:50:44] [SPEAKER_05]: crime comedy uh with two big comedy stars that is

[01:50:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Also inspired it has the same inspiration as a big drama from the year before no the same year

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: The same year there's a big drama movie coming out later this year

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That is also about this

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_05]: This thing this guy. Oh, it's uh my blue heaven my blue heaven. Are you aware of this tatiana?

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_05]: No, what are you talking about? It's a norah effron comedy. She didn't direct it, but she wrote it. Yeah

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas puzo starring

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicholas pledgy who wrote good fellas the book a nonfiction account, right?

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Norah effron is married to him the book was called wise guy, but yes

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Norah effron is married to him and she writes a movie about a gangster going into witness protection

[01:51:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, what is the ending point of good fellas where now this guy is living in the suburbs?

[01:51:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And she is so like lit up by that idea that she writes a broad comedy starring steve martin

[01:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: What and rick maranis ass is like hapless next door neighbor. No rick maranis is the um

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_05]: rick maranis is the fad who's uh in charge of him

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Steve steve martin and junkie zekker the couple right are playing ray leota and

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: lorraine brako ostensibly, but it comes out months before good fellas

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Like this husband and wife

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Do their own versions of the same story except hers is kind of a fictionalized sequel

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't really make much of an impact. I feel like it's not a well-known movie for those actors really

[01:52:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Martin with like a flat top. Yeah, and like a big have you seen it? Yeah. Is it any good? It's kind of funny. Cool. Yeah

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Number five at the box office is a film

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_05]: That I really enjoy a very fun legal movie that and this has never happened before since got turned into a bloated mini series

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_05]: On an expensive streaming network recently starting incredibly sane actor starting an incredibly normal actor

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Who's famous and has an oscar nomination and presumed innocent presumed innocence? Yeah. Oh

[01:52:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Um presumed innocent the harrison ford, uh, alon poculla movie. That is a blast. Yeah great movie

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'd always watch it and and god this is too tight. Could this be 10 episodes?

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It's too cool. Maybe a cliffhanger for season two water this down

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly just add stuff that's nothing this steak doesn't have enough gristle and fat on it

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't seen presumed innocent plenty of people have told me a pretty fun watch

[01:53:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I the tv show. Yes, yeah, I have not seen it. You know what it is also fun the movie watching it five times

[01:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Just watch that movie five times

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a way to spend 10 hours have either of you seen presumed innocent the movie. Yeah

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_05]: No, uh number six at the box office is the uh, I would say somewhat forgotten roger spotter

[01:53:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Spottus would have movie air america starring mel Gibson and robin downey jr

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure that was a very normal chill set. I think that is

[01:53:44] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the well, that's the start of their relationship. Yeah. No it is. I mean they're genuinely. Yes. Yes

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, this is the start of their friendship. Yes

[01:53:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Number seven is the disney movie taking care of business starring a jim balushi. Oh, of course

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen that movie?

[01:54:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I have not that's the one where he's the poster is him like riding a car like a surfboard

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_01]: He's on top of the car. He's a car thief who wants in 10 tat wants to go to the world series

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you seen taking care of business ben? Why haven't you seen this movie? I have not

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. He's taking care of business question. Does it what is it about?

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: He's just a car thief and he wants to go to the world series that right. It was written by jj abram

[01:54:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And incredibly young

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_05]: He's one ticket to the world series, but he has two days left to serve in prison and his warden won't let him leave

[01:54:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So he stages a riot and escapes from prison to go to the game

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and then he steals charles groden's philo facts of

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Business stuff and then they get involved in a bunch of antics. It sounds very complicated

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Where's the nearest porch? I gotta go on

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, tit has pulled up the poster there it is. Yes. I love it

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's oversized it makes him look like he's a giant riding a tiny car like it's a roller skate

[01:54:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Just because a canadian again a canadian is on our podcast this week bachman turner overdrive

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Who wrote the song taking care of business? They're canadian are from winnipeg sure

[01:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey

[01:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I love how pissed off charles groden is

[01:55:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He's not happy that that guy is surfing on his car

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to also say jimbalushi looks like he's four times the size of groden

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The scale is so I'm sorry

[01:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to pull my wind up

[01:55:22] [SPEAKER_01]: His bait oven vibes where it's like this giant monster dog and groden's

[01:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Shaking his fist at him. I will a little arm maybe four times a year

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Just when I have some downtime click on jimbalushi's wikipedia go to filmography and just kind of marvel at like

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_01]: There were years of him 10 years. There were basically 10 consecutive jimbalushi

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_05]: The principle real men

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Red heat that's a real canine a canine homer and eddie like these movies where you're like what were these movies?

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_01]: These are movies where either he is the lead mr. Destiny above the line

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's either above the he's the one guy above the title or it's a two-hander

[01:56:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And you look at him and you're like was one of these a huge hit and these were the rough

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_01]: No, all them did okay. There's not one of them

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_01]: He did it was like but he didn't have one that was like one out of the box had to be their success

[01:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: He was john balush's brother

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: We're so sad at the loss of john balushi that they were like we cannot stop making jim movies

[01:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen twin peaks the return yet? No, I know he's good. He is

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Unbelievable in twin peaks the return you're about to see it. This is the thing anytime he shows up as a character actor now

[01:56:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he kind of kills it. Are you gonna like watch it in europe? You're gonna be watching twin peaks the return

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: What's your plan?

[01:56:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You gotta do it. I know that's my plan. Hey, all right number eight of the box office big kid comedy problem child

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man many times

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure. Uh number nine, uh, that was a movie that I watched and took notes

[01:56:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, right you were like i'm inspired. That's interesting. I like that. Okay

[01:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Number nine another pretty dumb movie young guns two

[01:57:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, not sure we needed a second one of those in the number 10 is wild at heart

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, it's a fun dumb 90s

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah early 90s time diane led the only oscar domination uh for wild at heart. Yes, uh

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: somewhat

[01:57:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Unsurprising I suppose in a way but uh, yeah, that's

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_05]: It won the palm door. Maybe got like a BAFTA nom

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Got a ticket to golden globe just for lad

[01:57:29] [SPEAKER_05]: willam defoe got an indie spirit nomination

[01:57:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:57:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Lynch is at his height and as you'll say as you said like within a year or two

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_05]: He's kind of a cooked goose

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And fire walk with me is coming out and people are like, you know

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_05]: airs out of this balloon

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_01]: There's that tarantino quote where he talks about going to see fire walk with me and he was like

[01:57:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I just realized i'm done with the guy. He's cooked. He's gone so far up his own ass

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He's never coming back

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And the quote ends with it's like the line from jackie brown where he's like what happened to you man used to be beautiful

[01:58:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He's like I used to love this guy

[01:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's like him quoted from when like pulp fiction jackie brown was coming out when it was like he's done

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a five-year gap in between movies

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_01]: People don't like lost highway at the time

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is the final moment of him being on top of the world until

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Mulholland is seen as a comeback

[01:58:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Not to get ahead of our narrative

[01:58:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Now are we doing joker next week? Is that still the plan?

[01:58:29] [SPEAKER_05]: We pushing it a week. What's our plan? Tatiana, I don't know if you've heard of the joker

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: A man we call him the clan prince of crime

[01:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Who finds the things that make us cry funny?

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's he lives at the things that scare us all

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes emotional response and I think we have a civic duty

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Now when you say civic a moral obligation duty. Yeah, when you say do do

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Do ddi to cover his new his new film folly ada

[01:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a bit of a campaign pushing back against me

[01:59:03] [SPEAKER_05]: What was your suggestion sims? There's this there's the movie good rich

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh starring michael keaton and directed by uh,

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Nancy mires' daughter hallie and we did cover her other move. We did so we

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Nominally could cover that yes instead or we could do both

[01:59:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, but if we do both we have to push joker a week. I think to make it a combo episode

[01:59:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's what i'm gonna say

[01:59:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Ben insert the audio clip of what we decided to do right here

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think taking care of business is a great idea. I'm glad we're doing

[01:59:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, uh, well see us next week for whatever it is that it'll be something. It's something it's always something a blank check

[01:59:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh tatiana you're the best. Thank you for making time to do this having me

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, well knee deep and travel and work. Is there anything you want to plug? Yeah, what's going on?

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I guess I will plug the move in the monkey. Yeah, I did with osperkins

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Who did long legs? Yeah

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: who?

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: anthony parkinson

[02:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: director in his own rock

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Great, I think it's gonna be a fun movie

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know though. I'm very excited for it. Yeah, davin. I love i'm all in on that guy. We're really into it. Yeah

[02:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's a super weirdo and he casts weirdos and he hires weirdos and everybody on his set is very kind and

[02:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Like cares a lot. So is it coming out this fall?

[02:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's coming in feb. Okay, this is a long this is a long game plug. I saw the trailer though already

[02:00:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep, they've got the trailer. Yeah, there's some kind of monkey. Yeah. Yeah, it's a teaser. You know, monkey

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: They're sort of right. It's a teaser. Yeah, and the things that make us cry make him

[02:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: E. E. Ooh, he's a bit of a joker. This monkey's got joker runs. He's a little joker

[02:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Play by walking

[02:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh what a crew

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You got the side guy to show off. Can I say it?

[02:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That guy kind of the joker of actors. Yeah, seriously. He does things so twisted like

[02:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Abandoning the movie five days before it's gonna start filming

[02:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The kind of thing that makes financiers cry

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But makes him laugh

[02:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Total joker vibes very excited for the monkey. Yeah and and everything else you are doing and working on

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And excited to see you again in person sometime Tatiana

[02:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That would be nice. Yes, that would be nice

[02:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh and thank you all listening

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Please remember to rate review and subscribe tune in next week for whatever we're doing next week

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to marie barty for helping to produce the show social media

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to a j mckinn for our editing. He's also our production coordinator

[02:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Lane montgomery in the gray american novel for our theme song jj birch for our research

[02:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Jobbon pat realms for our artwork

[02:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to blank check pod com for some links to some real nerdy shit

[02:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Including our patreon blank check special features where we do franchise commentaries

[02:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The only time we've covered nklist cage in the past and right now

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We are

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: In the end of tabletop games

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We just did an episode on weegee

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Origen of evil and uh coming up we have our twin peaks season two episode. Oh well

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at that record that that will be

[02:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: recorded

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get it done and as always

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of hard as a movie for dangastrics full of dangastrics night that's coming

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Night that's coming night that's coming