Yesterday with Zach Cherry

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:00:22] I've been waiting for half of my life for you to wake up and love me. Having loved you for half a lifetime, I realized when you left that I had made a bad choice doing that. And now it's gotten even trickier because if-

[00:00:36] When you were playing in pubs, we were the perfect match but now I'm an actual school teacher in actual low stuff and you're the world's greatest podcast. That is not what I thought you were going to go for.

[00:00:51] Yeah, I mean the other one I was thinking about doing was Most of the quotes on this page are like five sentence exchanges with a lot of back and forth. You could have done Sheeran. Where he's like, I'm Salieri or whatever his big moment is.

[00:01:06] How do I change that? That line is so strange seeing written out like this. Cause it's just, uh, I'm definitely Salieri and you're Mozart, mate. Night Jack. Yeah, alright fine. No, the other one I was thinking about was

[00:01:22] A world without the podcast is a world that's infinitely worse. There you go. But it felt wrong. No, I like that. I like that. Let him know. You gotta let him know. It felt like do the Richard Curtis speech. Yeah. The closest this movie gets to-

[00:01:37] But that speech is infuriating in this movie. It is. Where you're just like, well what the fuck? Why haven't you- Whatever, we'll talk about it. Look, look. Look, this is quietly a very divisive movie. Wow. And David, you and I- This is news to me, by the way.

[00:01:53] This is the thing. You and I had our reactions to seeing this film in theater that I think were similarly agitated, frustrated, befuddled. I can talk about my experience and I'm sure you can talk about yours. We'll get into it. Sure, sure.

[00:02:09] Our guest today, who we'll introduce in a moment, long overdue on the show. Long overdue. Sent a list probably of almost a year ahead of scheduling to go, you know what, we need to rectify this, we need to get you on the show.

[00:02:20] We gotta book you again already. Absolutely. We already have to be booking you on something new. Already. We're behind. Exactly. We're in the hole, okay? And basically we presented the list to him and this was the furthest episode out. True.

[00:02:33] But he said, I have to admit, I kind of love Yesterday. And you and I said to each other, no one else is going to want to do the Yesterday episode. Give it to him immediately. Yeah! It's so surprising. It didn't feel like-

[00:02:44] And correctly, it wasn't really that- there were a couple people who spoke up for it. Well, this is what's surprising. Right, there is a bit of a fan club. We did it so early because we gave him first crack at a long list of things ahead of us.

[00:02:55] And then in the time since we locked you in, and we never considered letting anyone else do it. It was yours. No, of course. I was like, maybe a little. No, but like- No, no, no, no, no. But like people did actually ask for it.

[00:03:07] Several other friends of the show, past and future guests. They were like, who are you calling Yesterday? I would love to do- by the way, I'd love to do Yesterday. I kind of like Yesterday.

[00:03:14] You're going to have to get me in a group chat with all these people because- In person conversations where people are like, you guys aren't just going to shit on Yesterday, right? You have someone who's going to come on and fight for Yesterday.

[00:03:23] I don't want to shit on this movie. I don't either. It's very complicated. I'm fascinated by it. I'm fascinated by these reactions to this movie because my reaction to it is so uncomplicated. And we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Great.

[00:03:39] Listen, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. This is Blank Check. We're here to talk to you about filmography. Directors experience massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:03:51] Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce, baby. That's all true. What is this? This isn't really a bounce. This was a hit. It made money. This was a hit. Yeah. Like- Not only that. That was not critically well received, really. No. But it made money. It made money.

[00:04:09] It was a hit. It was his most successful movie since Slumdog by a good mile. It cost $30 and it made like $150 worldwide or whatever. Yeah. Healthy. Yeah, healthy. And you're like, this is a movie that will sell in fucking supermarkets, spinner rack, DVD selection for the next decade.

[00:04:27] I'm sure this thing does well on streaming. I'm sure it gets good play on cable. Like, this is a movie that will be wildly profitable for a decade plus for everyone involved.

[00:04:37] It is his most recent film as of the time of our recording, the time of this mini series. Yeah. He has not made a film since. He's done another season of an FX show. I didn't even know that. He did two shows. He's done two shows since then.

[00:04:49] Trust happened before this. Am I wrong? I think you- well, actually, I can't remember. Let's find out. I believe Trust was 18. You're right. So, yeah. So, Trust, then this, and then Pistol. Yes. Which he directed. I didn't realize. Trust, he directs like the first three or four.

[00:05:02] Pistol, he did all six. Pistol, he did the whole thing. Yeah. Basically like a little mini movie. Yes. And we're going to cover it in opposite worlds. Yep, never happening. I will say, I tried watching the first episode and I was not grabbed by it. Yeah.

[00:05:16] Craig Pierce wrote it, who is one of Baz Luhrmann's key collaborators. I had a cool cast. You know, I had a lot of big- And I was watching it and it's like, yeah, I would totally be into watching Danny Boyle make a two hour movie about this.

[00:05:29] I do not need to watch the six hour version. But that's a modern TV problem. Anyway, this is his most recent film. It is called Yesterday. Yes. His mini series is called, of course, Trainspotcasting. I keep on thinking it's called Slumpod Million Cast, but it's not.

[00:05:46] That's what it is in opposite world. Sure. And our guest today, Beyond Overdue. Beyond Overdue. It is shameful that in the time it has taken us to get him on the show, he has rightfully ascended to the mountain of the greatest guests in comedy podcasting.

[00:06:02] I feel like he's had a run over the last year of just nothing but net. And that run stops now. No! You're running into a wall. I'm going to grind this episode into the ground. Fine. No, absolutely not. No, this is going to be great. From Succession. Succession?

[00:06:19] I'm leading with that. Okay. Because it's a great appearance. Factual. But probably, most famously, from Severance. From Shang-Chi and the Spider-Man Homecoming? Yeah. Yep. Accurate. I'm just trying to do your credits off the top of my head. Have we ever established if they are the same character?

[00:06:40] We haven't, and I have no further knowledge about that. I try to ask you... No one came in and was like, hey, by the way, you're playing the same character. Every two months I try to ask you, is there any clarity? No.

[00:06:51] I've received no additional clarity, and I had none from the beginning. The Great Zack Cherry is here. Long overdue. First time guest. Hello, hi. Hi, Zack. Hi. I'm very excited to be here, very excited to talk about this movie. That's all I got so far.

[00:07:06] Now, among your credits, Zack, among your honorifics, your titles, okay? Right before recording, you said to me, my wife wanted to make sure I told you to tell your dad she says hi. Yes. And then she says, how does your wife know Griffin's dad?

[00:07:27] And I said, save it for Mike. And the story is, we knew each other through UCB, through comedy. I'd say we were like friends of friends. We would sometimes get on the same show. We were friendly. We didn't know each other very well, right? Sure, yeah.

[00:07:40] I think it was in 2019, the year of yesterday itself, that fateful year, we booked you to be a guest on the New York Comic-Con George Lucas talk show panel. Which has now become a tradition. Yes. You've now done every year, I think, since then. Yes.

[00:07:56] My dad, who usually doesn't want to be called dead in association with this stuff, and was pointedly not coming to see the George Lucas talk show, I think had a former student who had a different panel at New York Comic-Con and was going to that.

[00:08:09] And you, Patrick Kotner, Connor Ratliff, and I were in the Jacob Javits Center food court waiting for our panel to start. We used to get the worst time slot, which was our panel would be one hour after the Javits Center closed, basically.

[00:08:24] Yes, like right at the end of the night. And we're talking and you start telling me, like, you know, I'm going off. You were about to go shoot a Quibi in Vancouver? Yeah, that sounds right. I think that matches up timeline-wise.

[00:08:36] And you said to me, you know, I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but I'm a blankie and I said, you shouldn't be embarrassed. That's an embarrassing thing to admit in public.

[00:08:43] And you said, but I'm really stressed out because Gemini Man's about to come out and I'm going to film in Vancouver. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to see it in high frame rate. Oh, sure. Were you?

[00:08:52] I think I was able to see it not in the highest frame rate. But in some frame rate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're having this conversation and I'm like, Zach, I had no idea you listened. You're deep in on this shit. We should have you on the show.

[00:09:05] This is certainly a thing that won't take four years to correct, right? Yeah, well, some things happen in between. We're bonding over this, right? And then my dad walks up and I was like, hey, I don't know if you're my dad, Connor. You've never met before.

[00:09:17] Hi, nice to meet you, Patrick. And then I go to my dad and I go, Dad, this is and then he truly falls to his knees. I had forgotten. And starts bowing. And Zach goes, what's happening? You're saying literally. Yes. Literally, yes. And I didn't put this together.

[00:09:37] In the food court. Right. And I was like, Zach, I should explain. I forgot. But you are my dad's number one favorite actor. My dad had seen Zach in an Ask Cat show where I did monologues and for weeks was like, I can't get over that guy.

[00:09:54] That guy was the best. That guy, Zach Cherry, he's unbelievable. What does he do? And I was like, he's great. He's great. He's one of the best in the city. Anytime Zach.

[00:10:03] And this was when your career was starting off, but you weren't, you know, booking series, regular TV show jobs. Anytime Zach would show up in a commercial. My dad would like take a photo of the TV screen, send me an email, subject heading, all caps, my guy.

[00:10:15] My guy. This is so funny too because my dad had this reaction to Sebastian Cannelli at an Ask Cat show. Yeah. And will not stop talking about him. So, you know, I'm familiar with the dad having a guy genre. My dad was genuinely starstruck.

[00:10:32] Like couldn't, how did you not tell me? And now just keeps up with everything Zach does. Weirdly has not watched Severance. Well, I keep on, you know, Zach's like a series regular on a show that everyone like, yeah, no, I got to watch that.

[00:10:44] I got to watch that. But I saw him in the commercial. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Biggest, biggest fan sent you an email. It's congratulating your wedding. He was supposed to come to your wedding, got caught in traffic and had a panic attack. That's my wife's connection to your dad.

[00:10:59] She knew she knew that he was going to come to our wedding. Yeah. And was excited to meet him, but did not get the chance. It will happen. That is sad. He's going to take you to dinner at some point. Yes. Looking forward to it.

[00:11:10] My father, number one Zach Cherry fan. His favorite living actor. I'm a big fan. No, it's a good taste. I mean, I appreciate it. You know, it's great. I love getting when you update me on if he's seen something else.

[00:11:26] I usually get a little report about his reaction to it. I love getting them. You have the series of commercials. I'm forgetting which food delivery service it is. Uber Eats. Uber Eats. That's right. He loved them. He absolutely loved them. Yeah, they were fun. It was fun. Zach.

[00:11:41] Yesterday. 2019. Do you see this movie in theaters? No. No. And also bigger, like Danny Boyle in general. Like pro, neutral, pro. You texted me the other day. Yes, so I've been listening to the series of Trains Podcasting. Correct.

[00:11:58] And it was kind of the first time I even put together that all these movies were Danny Boyle movies. Because he's got quite a varied filmography. He does, which is part of the joy, of course. It's great. So I'm a big 28 Days Later fan.

[00:12:11] Tried to rewatch it when your episode came out. But it's not streaming anywhere for some reason. I would have sent you a special file if you had just asked me. I'll get back to it at some point. I was a big Sunshine fan when I finally saw that.

[00:12:25] I saw that much, much later than it came out. Love Slumdog Millionaire. So I'm a Boyle guy. This movie I did not see in theaters. I have an interesting relationship with this movie, which is... Nothing about this movie seems like it would be for me.

[00:12:46] I'm not a Beatles fan. I don't like musicals. I tend to not love sort of like... I don't know what you'd even call them. Just like pleasant comedies. You're not really a Richard Curtis guy. I do like Love Actually.

[00:13:02] Or at least I went through a phase of really enjoying that. But yeah, almost everything about this movie is a red flag for my taste in general. I'm on a plane. I didn't want to leave. I had a feeling. We were talking about this movie making money.

[00:13:19] And counting plane dollars. This thing must have cleaned up on Delta. You expected this to be a plane movie? I just kind of had a feeling. And also you're an actor. Actors are often on planes. We're traveling to jet setting.

[00:13:30] So I turn it on and I loved it so much. I became obsessed with the Beatles for like a month after this. Wow, this movie is like the thing that's... This movie got me into the Beatles. I watched the Peter Jackson documentary after...

[00:13:46] Because I think I only watched it maybe a year and a half ago, this movie. And I was a little nervous because I hadn't seen it since then. And I knew I was going to come on and talk about it. And I was like, I'm a little nervous.

[00:13:58] I won't like it as much. I might have just been in a weird place. There's something about a good plane movie where you're just like, me and this movie are friends. This movie is helping me through this. We're going to be friends forever.

[00:14:08] It was sort of like your Puppy Patrol. Paw Patrol. Or Paw Patrol, sorry. Well, it was like my Puppy Patrol or my Paw Patrol. You know the story that Ben started crying hysterically watching Paw Patrol over the shoulder of a small boy without audio.

[00:14:24] I do not. I miss that one. The opening is so strong, Zach. Wow. There's this turtle crossing the road and this guy swerves out of the way. Because he doesn't want to hit the turtle. And the truck's hanging over the edge.

[00:14:35] And then the Paw Patrol shows up and saves the day. This is an animated film? Correct. Ben and his wife were on a plane... His wife? His friend. Oh, boy. We've got to bleep that out. We're on a plane and she looks over and Ben is sobbing hysterically.

[00:14:51] And he is looking at the opening of Paw Patrol in the crack between the two seats in front of him being watched by a little boy with headphones on. So Ben's hearing no audio and the plane had not taken off yet.

[00:15:01] That's about the highest praise a movie can get. Yeah. The visual filmmaking on display must have been incredible. Right. It's like pure Soviet montage level. But when I fly, I will often text David movie opinions where I'm like, does the spider who dumped me secretly rip?

[00:15:21] And I'm like, what just... The plane movie bell curve. It can do strange things. I usually, I'm usually a re-watcher on planes. Right. Because you want comfort. I'm usually like a comfort... Exactly. Familiarity.

[00:15:32] I know I'm probably going to fall asleep so I'll turn on like a John Wick or whatever. Just, you know, kind of movies I've seen a million times. And by the way, also sometimes I'm on a plane and I'm like,

[00:15:41] oh, I've been meaning to see this. I should watch this. And I put it on 10 minutes. I'm like, it's not bad, but it's not a plane movie. Yes. This is not the right way to watch it.

[00:15:48] Absolutely. So I don't, and I don't even remember what inspired me to turn it on. Maybe I had like, I honestly cannot remember. I would say this is a classic plane movie in that it's the kind of movie you are going to get around to.

[00:16:02] Maybe you're not thinking like, well, I got to be there opening weekend, but you're sort of like, well, I like Danny Boyle. And also, I don't even know if I knew it was Danny Boyle. That's true. It didn't really lead with that.

[00:16:11] I truly have no idea why I turned it on. But I think if it's a movie, I think if you ever saw the trailer for this movie. I did. You ever read a review? I saw the trailer for this movie 400 times. Exactly.

[00:16:25] They really pushed the trailer for this movie. This is a movie where if you were aware of it when it was coming out, you know what the premise is. You're not sitting on a plane two years later going, what is that thing again?

[00:16:34] You go, oh, that's the movie where everyone forgets about the Beatles. It's such a weird concept for a movie. It's going to jump out on a plane movie selection. But when the trailer came out, I remember having a very strong not for me reaction to it.

[00:16:46] I was like totally uninterested. Again, didn't care about the Beatles, not a musical person. So I think I must have heard someone say they enjoyed it, like a friend of mine or something. Anyway, I rewatched it today to talk about it.

[00:17:01] I was nervous going in and it hit exactly as hard as it did the first time. I love this movie. Literally every element of this movie works for me. It somehow in retrospect feels like a movie that was made for me,

[00:17:17] even though none of the pieces of it are things that I normally like about movies. Is there like a comp? Is there like another movie you love? Good question. That you feel this way about where you're like, oh yeah, made for me.

[00:17:29] I just am so locked in with this. You can think about it. Even though on paper it's not playing into your traditional love. This is a great question and I will arrive at one by the end of the pod. Ben, had you seen Yesterday Before This?

[00:17:45] No, I had never seen it. I assume you skipped it just out of disinterest. No, alright. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I kind of liked it. I mean, I kind of enjoyed it. You enjoyed it this time. I did. Let's go.

[00:18:02] I had a feeling this was going to happen. Yeah. Okay, so it's a two against two situation. David. Now, I saw this film at its world premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival. I saw it the first time it ever screened for public audiences.

[00:18:18] Partly I think because the studio was like, I don't know, just come to the fucking Tribeca premiere. Who cares? I mean, that's not true. They weren't enthusiastic. It was a June release. It was a June release and a premiere at the Tribeca in May.

[00:18:30] So I saw it, I guess, quite far in advance. And I was a little baffled. I was pretty excited for it. I was like, this is the kind of shit that's right up my alley. I like a good Richard Curtis cheese fest.

[00:18:43] And I remember talking about when this movie was announced, when the trailer came out, we were like, it's so weird that Danny Boyle made this.

[00:18:51] And you saying like, it's kind of an indictment of the state of the film industry right now that he is having a hard time getting things made. And just Beatles and Richard Curtis makes it a go project.

[00:19:00] It was a thing he could sign on to that would get a green light. We'll talk about it, but it's post James Bond. There is that kind of like, maybe I'll do a Richard Curtis script. I'm a big British filmmaker. I've never done one of those.

[00:19:10] But I think it felt like you and I were both like, everything about this is weird. What if it's secretly really good? Danny Boyle can over deliver things. I watched it, and I would say I was kind of baffled and somewhat angered by it. Very similar. Confused.

[00:19:27] Like I was losing my goddamn mind. Now I rewatched it. I felt like I was at home for the first time. Whereas I'm like, my home is different in ways I don't understand. There's something about the couch that's not right. I rewatched it on Blu-ray.

[00:19:44] I own it on Blu-ray. I bought it on 4k. He bought it on 4k. He first sent me the Blu-ray. I bought it on iTunes to get the extras. Yep. Extra's important, and we're going to talk about it. Because you also dug into the extras. I did.

[00:19:54] We're going to talk about it. Fun extras opinions. And I will say, this movie plays far better on television, on second viewing, just because it's made for television. I don't mean that in a negative way. It's a gentle film. It's got pretty people in it.

[00:20:10] It's got Beatles songs in it. All of that is pretty tranquil. And it's one of those things where I was yelling this at my wife as she came in and started, as many people do, asking questions. She's like, I don't understand.

[00:20:24] And I was like, well, you know, and trying to get into the logic of the film. And then, of course, myself getting mad. I was trying to do this the other day to someone, and it was a difficult exercise. It's an endless series of questions. Right.

[00:20:38] But I was like, look, I think it looks good. I think Danny Boyle cast it really well. I think he just doesn't make bad-looking movies. I really like the sort of immediacy of it. And I think performance is kind of the name of the game in this film.

[00:20:49] Performances are very strong. But there is something fundamental where I just cannot shake my questions. I have had so many people like you, Zach, other people, I'll say in a moment, who have vowed

[00:21:03] for this movie, whose opinion I hold in infinite respect, who made me go, maybe I was too harsh on this film. I need to give it another look. I'm going to rewatch it with a completely open mind. I want to love this, right? Right.

[00:21:18] I'm on this movie's side. Absolutely. And I'm like, here I am watching Comfort of My Own Home. This feels like I'm meeting the movie on its turf. You know, I'm ready. And first, like, 15, 20 minutes, I was like, yeah, this is charming. Okay, okay. Absolutely.

[00:21:34] And then I get into the two, and I am not, I try so hard not to be a nitpicker about things. Me too. I'm not a person who cares about plot holes at all. I'm not a cinema sins guy. At all.

[00:21:44] But there are two basic logic loops in the inherent premise in this film that break my fucking brain. What are they? And the deeper it went on, the more it drove me crazy. And I kept trying to be like, Griffin, just calm down and just watch the film.

[00:21:56] There's one that is too strong for me. This is so fun. I would love to hear them too, because I normally am a, like, plot hole guy. I don't get that. How does that follow that? Yeah, I'm such a, like, oh, you like that thing?

[00:22:06] Well, I think it's stupid because it makes one thing. It doesn't make sense. Exactly. I often am that kind of guy, but for this movie, I just turned it off and was like, give it to me. Which is what it's asking. It's asking you to turn it off.

[00:22:18] This movie is not like Ironclad. This movie is just being like, hey, just have fun with it. It's a silly premise. Look, I was trying to be constructive, and I was like, let me fill in the gaps. Can I add some text to fill this out for me?

[00:22:34] The Lily James-Himesh Patel relationship inherently makes no sense to me. I get hung up on that so much more than I do the why were things forgotten, which things have been forgotten. I agree with you on that.

[00:22:48] I do think there's a general they don't have enough of an obstacle between them for you to be like, why didn't these two get together? And we're going to dig into this. So pin in that. Pin in that. That's more of an inherent.

[00:23:00] That's not a science fiction question. That doesn't bother me at all. I'm like, they didn't hook up. Why not? We're going to get into this. We're going to get into this. We're going to get into this.

[00:23:11] But I was trying to sort of generously view this movie with the same sort of latitude I give to something like Groundhog Day, right? Where I think in a way some of the central key brilliance of Groundhog Day is we're making no attempt to explain this. Right.

[00:23:28] There's not an internal lie. I don't fucking care. There doesn't need to be a witch that cursed him. There doesn't need to be a reckoning that makes it clear what the rules are. It's just happening. Right. I do like that about this. It's happening until it doesn't happen.

[00:23:38] Right. Except in this movie, of course, it has happened and that is it. It's over. And also every 15 minutes they keep on establishing new wrinkles in it. Well, that's where I'm going to get really worked up. But what's your thing? Right.

[00:23:49] And so I'm like, if the Himesh Patel, Lily James relationship worked for me on just the charming British Richard Curtis, these two actors are very hot and have very charming chemistry. I think I would be a lot more forgiving. I found them so charming.

[00:24:03] I thought they had such great chemistry. We'll talk about it. What is your other thing? Why is there any rhyme or reason to which things have been forgotten and which people still remember them? No, there's not. Except for the Oasis joke. That's a joke.

[00:24:19] Which is funny and I give him that. I did love that joke. Here's my thing. I think when I first watched it, that was the moment where I went, I'm all in on this. That joke shatters the backboard. I will give the movie that.

[00:24:29] That joke is a tomahawk donger. Yeah, that joke works. Funny. And he says, figures. Funny. If cigarettes didn't exist. We're saying the tobacco trade never existed? I will admit that one was confusing. That would fundamentally shift geopolitics for 600 years at the very least. If tobacco never existed?

[00:24:51] And then the people who wouldn't have died from lung cancer, from smoking. It's the spider webs. It's insanity. This movie needs to have the fucking. People should have donuts for head in this movie. I agree. You don't learn that until almost the end of the movie. It's insane.

[00:25:09] But he's like, wait, cigarettes don't exist? It's a town in France. That's it. Because basically everything they're dealing with until that point is like. Coca-Cola. It's like pop culture synthesized. I didn't quite get that one either.

[00:25:22] I don't really get that one either, but at least it's like, well, at least carbonated soda. The fact that I know so little about the Beatles may have helped me in this case because I was able to just go, I don't know. Maybe the Beatles like invented Coke.

[00:25:34] Okay. And I could, I could just let that live. Like it was a side project. Right. I don't know. I don't know shit. Can I tell you guys to the best of my understanding what that is? The Coke or the cigarettes? Let's get into both. Go ahead.

[00:25:49] But this gets into this. I don't think you're going to sell me on whatever it is. Oh, David, I'm not sold on it, but I just feel like after this movie, I was like, can anyone parse the logic of which things are missing?

[00:26:00] And I saw someone online explain and I, you know, this is my fan theory, but I went, this checks out. That is absolutely what Richard Curtis must've been intending. Even though he never explained it. Just say it. Part of the lore of the Beatles is that John Lennon,

[00:26:18] Paul McCartney met neighborhood kids. Yeah. Cutting class, smoking cigarettes and drinking Coke. And they're like, well, the chain is the reason the Beatles don't exist is because cigarettes and Coke don't exist. It's like that wasn't there to bring them together. Correct.

[00:26:38] It's harder to pitch a movie where you say it's a world where cigarettes and Coke never existed. So it's like the Beatles are actually a later consequence. Like link on the chain that has been removed. Right. So you're like, what is the original?

[00:26:50] But then why do the Rolling Stones exist? Exactly. Those guys smoke cigarettes. I'll tell you that much. And David, I agree with you. If you're like the Beatles is step one in the chain of things that are being forgotten. And that means Oasis, then by proxy doesn't exist.

[00:27:00] But Ed Sheeran, I mean, this is what my wife kept saying. She was like, Ed Sheeran wouldn't exist. No. Like that guy's got, you know, the Beatles influence on British music. I think Ed Sheeran probably be a little different. He raps a little bit. He does rap.

[00:27:11] So he has a different chain that he can be inspired by. Yeah, but leave it to the brothers. I guess so. I did also love that joke. That joke's awesome. That joke's awesome. Joel Fry is good in that. I loved it.

[00:27:21] But yes, the fact that cigarettes don't exist immediately turns this. It's a bridge too far. It's Doctor Strange in the multiverse of madness. He should wake up and everyone should have like flowers for hands. Exactly. See, I was like, damn, that would have probably helped my life.

[00:27:35] Well, you're just like a paradise. That's like, it's great. It's not even on offer. At 13 years old, I wouldn't have made a horrible decision. Like what if it's like tobacco exists, but it's just in a different form? Maybe. We don't know. We don't really answer that question.

[00:27:49] It's just that cigarettes themselves don't exist. Or maybe it's literally just that they're not called cigarettes. They might exist as cigarettes. But we don't see anyone smoke them. They might be called champagne. I kind of thought maybe people just vape. Honestly, could be.

[00:28:02] You know what would be funny though is if everyone actually like chewed tobacco like baseball players and everyone was like spitting into jars like constantly throughout the movie. We don't know. Pulling spring bottles, spitting into it. That would be funny. The fact that he Googled it. Doing dip.

[00:28:17] He sees the town of cigarette in France. Right. And then we get no further answers about like. Which I will say, that joke is always funny. Like the Google reflecting something else. The Google joke works for me every time. Good.

[00:28:28] And we've established the Joel Fry character is a stoner. I suppose so. He's a drinker. Yeah. I don't know if he's. Do they not call him a stoner? He's just kind of like the classic Risa fans-esque Richard Curtis character of like this guy's fun.

[00:28:42] Like this guy's a wild card. I want to counterweight my complaints with compliments. Joel Fry in this movie is the best anyone has done of the Risa fans thing post Notting Hill, which became such a towering performance of that archetype that I like actors have talked about.

[00:29:01] Like I didn't want to take this fucking best friend role in this movie because what are you going to do? A worse version of Risa Fonz like you want to be the worst version of the best comedy roommate. He's funny. Joel Fry is good. Where'd that come from?

[00:29:13] He just a lot of TV and he does music too. Yeah. I learned that from the director's commentary. Oh really? Yeah. Wait, so you listen to the director's not all of it. I checked in on a piece. Is it boil alone or is it boiling Curtis? Wow. Okay.

[00:29:29] Okay. I think they're pretty chummy. I only listened to maybe 20 minutes of it. I will also say I believe I've said this on the podcast before. I saw this at the Tribeca Film Festival. Danny Boyle introduced it and he came out and he said,

[00:29:41] my sister is a public school teacher and I really made this film as a tribute to public school teachers. I'm sitting with my friend Emma Stefanski and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. The lights come up and I'm like, that wasn't an amazing tribute to public school teachers.

[00:29:55] It's not negative about them. There is a scene. There's two scenes. There is a scene in which Himesh Patel goes, maybe I go back to teaching and Lily James stops the car dead in its tracks and goes, you absolutely cannot. If you go back to teaching,

[00:30:09] those kids are going to suck all your creativity out of you and you'll be dry. In this movie. But it does end with him becoming a teacher. It does. But there's a scene where she's like, that is a fate worse than death.

[00:30:20] And there's multiple scenes where she's like, I'm just a teacher. She's so down on herself for being a teacher. Look, I was trying to find. I was trying to enjoy it. It was just, it felt like Danny Boyle coming out and being like, I don't really know.

[00:30:32] Cause Richard Curtis was there too. He'd already said some nice. Sure. And Danny Bull just being like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, my sister's a teacher and that, that really helped motivate me. Like it didn't, it didn't feel quite right when he said it.

[00:30:43] It is weird that this movie, which is for how bizarre it is, it's also meant to be like a light, perfect masterpiece. Right. It's a light air comedy. Basically had three controversies of some size, spin out of it. Really?

[00:30:58] The first of which I think if we're just going in chronological chronological order, there's a controversy within the development of this move. Okay, hold on before we get too far from cigarettes. I just want to say, I agree that doesn't make sense. By the way,

[00:31:09] we're never going to get too far from the cigarette discussion in this episode. But you don't learn that until pretty deep into the movie. It's like two thirds into the movie. So like, you know, I've already so locked into this movie at that point that that's,

[00:31:20] that's maybe the first thing that bumped me and I went, okay, I can forgive that. I don't know why he has sex. Did he references? I need a cigarette. He's just stressed out. He's just stressed out. Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is so cute.

[00:31:36] I just think he's such a handsome kid. He's so good. And we talked about this, but he does good in this. He does this. And then the following year, he's in tenant and tenant plays like cock shore. Like he is dude. I wouldn't call him an asshole,

[00:31:46] but he's definitely, yeah, he's a pro. He's a classic Nolan pro. Who's just sort of like, yeah, crash the plane for you. Yeah. And I think the reason I was so into that episode was like, I, the guy, the fact that the,

[00:31:58] this guy has the range to in one year ago from Hugh Grant to Adam Goldberg and sell both. He's fucking great in tenant. You know, he had been on Eastenders, the British soap. I don't know if you guys know Eastenders. It's the most popular television show in Britain.

[00:32:12] It's a soap operators pretty much every day. And he'd been on that for like 10 years. I did see that he was in like 250 episodes. Let me give you the exact count here. 556. Cause that's what it is, man. It's like, it's like incredible. Oh, sure. Sure.

[00:32:28] Or maybe four times a week or whatever, you know? And it's like, you know how American soaps are like in the daytime. So they're really only for like old people and people at home or whatever. British soaps are at like 6 PM.

[00:32:37] So the idea is like you sit down with your dinner to watch the soap. It's like, it is, it is prime time in a way. Wow. You know what I mean? Like if you're, if when I was visiting with a lot of friends, exactly.

[00:32:50] You would go home with them after school and then they'd be like, it's time for Eastenders. And you'd be like, oh shit. And like everyone has to sit down and watch Eastenders. Did you write that song? Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good right? I've never heard of it.

[00:33:01] Are there other shows like that or is that the one? Eastenders and Coronation Street are the two big kahooters. Okay. Are they still running? Yep. Wow. Yep. Eastenders is on BBC. Coronation Street is on ITV. Eastenders is set in East London. Coronation Street is on the BBC.

[00:33:12] So it's like, it's like the two big kahooters. It's like the two big kahooters. It's like the two big kahooters. Okay. So Coronation Street is on ITV. Eastenders is set in East London. Coronation Street is set in Manchester.

[00:33:23] But they're both like working class dramas with a lot of, you know, plot twists. Yeah sure. You know. Anyway he got plucked out of that. Sure. Himesh Patel. Yes. And look, there are a few things I love more. And it's a, it's like, it's like, it's a workout.

[00:33:40] It's like you're really, you know, you're learning the fucking craft right? You know, you do all that shit. Yeah. And then there's a studio release film with an introducing. Yeah. In the lead. Sure. Which this film did in its marketing. Oh really? Yeah.

[00:33:55] This is like his first film role? It's his first film role. Wow. It's his first movie period. That's amazing. First movie period. But it's just cool to see like, He was good in Station Eleven right? People liked that. Yeah he's great. He's building a really good career.

[00:34:06] But this is really the start for him and it's like, yeah, like Universal putting trailers into thousands of theaters that say introducing Himesh Patel. Because I think they, It's exciting. They wisely were like, the Beatles are the sort of brand this thing has. And also,

[00:34:21] So we don't have to worry about it. The Beatles cost them $10 million. Amen. And that will be the greatest selling point and they can put all the songs in the trailer. They don't really need a star. Lily James is a little bit of insurance.

[00:34:31] Kate McKinnon's a little bit of insurance. Yeah but, Right. But Danny Boyle was like, this guy auditioned and he did the songs himself on guitar. He needed to sing. He needed to sing right? That was sort of the primary thing.

[00:34:39] And he was just like watching him perform the songs I was sold. Now the origin of this film. It starts as a spec script idea. It is a man by the name of, let me pull this up. Paul McCartney. No his name is Jack Barth.

[00:34:58] He wrote a bunch of Jonathan Ross programs. Yes he has a story credit on the film. Yes. Yeah okay. Let me, you got the dossier there, I got the dossier. Yes. He had worked on some TV shows.

[00:35:11] He wrote a spec Simpson script which was then purchased and was, turned into a fish called Selma. Right which is one of the great episodes. Great episode. Yeah. And his script was called cover version. You can do that? Like, I think his idea, At that time you could.

[00:35:26] I think his idea was like, you know let's all do it. Let's all write a Spimpsons. His thing basically, I'm like what if Star Wars didn't exist and I just wrote Star Wars? Basically he was like 60 and had written like 20 film screenplays

[00:35:39] and none of them ever got options. Right. And he was at this point in frustration where he said to his wife, I think out of frustration like, I'm so cursed that in a universe where Star Wars didn't exist,

[00:35:51] I could write Star Wars now and no one would buy it. Right. And what he really latched onto was this idea of a universe in which one person remembers the biggest hits, the biggest cultural impact projects. Right.

[00:36:04] And yet something is so fundamentally wrong with them that they cannot figure out how to turn successes out of what are clearly winning lottery tickets. He wrote this spec script that was basically an ode to his career frustrations of, am I just the wrong guy? Right.

[00:36:20] I would watch that movie as well. That's interesting. I'd be into that. It might be frustrating but interesting. That's the sort of philosophical loop he's obsessed with is this movie that's about sort of accepting that you're never going to be the guy who changes the world.

[00:36:33] But you're saying, so here, he writes a treatment. Yes. It does get to like working title. Right. The production company which produces the film. The Beatles were part of it but it was not exclusively like a Beatles script. It was just,

[00:36:45] I think it was going to apply to just. Yeah. There was definitely some Beatles element because he was being told like those songs are too expensive. Right. Like so how could this ever get made? Right. Mackenzie Crook. Gareth from the original British office.

[00:36:59] Wanted to do it at one point. Forgetty from Hearts of the Caribbean. True. He wanted to direct it. Right. But then Richard Curtis gets involved. Well there's like the point basically where people are like, I think this is like a cute like two million dollar indie film. Right.

[00:37:14] I think that's when Mackenzie Crook is like attached. And then at some point working title sniffs it out. Working title is like, this sounds like a good premise. If we with our muscle got the Beatles rights and you really built this around the Beatles.

[00:37:26] That feels like a sellable movie. And then they basically go to Richard Curtis and go, we have this script that we bought. What do you think of this idea? And we link it up to the Beatles thing. And Richard Curtis claims that he never read the script. Yeah.

[00:37:38] Basically it was presented as a piece of paper of this basic story. At this basic starting point, one person remembers the Beatles music. A failing musician remembers the Beatles songs in a universe where they're forgotten and we have all the rights tied up.

[00:37:50] There were lawsuits that went on after this film came out where this guy, Barth got demoted to just story credit. And then when he saw the film and had very little payment or association with it was like, there are story beats that are in my script.

[00:38:05] Can I give you the details? Yeah. Yes. He gets the story credit. Yes. Part of the deal. And he was given money. Yes. But there's a big shift between story and screenplay credit. Of course, but he didn't write the script. So he was being, you know,

[00:38:21] Richard Curtis wrote a new script. Yes. He claims the two things that are the same are John Lennon, the inclusion of John Lennon and the Harry Potter joke. Yes. Interesting. And that's when he starts complaining and the lawyers get involved. And then as he puts it,

[00:38:40] once lawyers are involved, they just drag it out. Right? Like it becomes like lawyers versus lawyers. And then someone called David Blatt, who has his own credits, a French writer, had a graphic novel called Yesterday that followed a 20 year old who

[00:39:01] travels back in time and records Beatles songs before the Beatles are able to do it. Wild. And he was like, what the fuck? This is my idea. Yeah. And Richard Curtis was also like, don't didn't know what that was. You know, wasn't aware.

[00:39:16] So he was basically like the end and he claims I turn in the first draft before his book was published. Right. And Danny Boyle was like, look, I don't know anything about this. I assume it's all parallel thinking. I watched my hands.

[00:39:29] Or that's what Barth said that his draft existed before Richard Curtis comes on, which is after the French graphic novel is published. So quote I read from Barth that is not in the dossier here, but I thought was really interesting.

[00:39:40] He was just like Richard Curtis goes to university, right? Prestigious University. He meets Rowan Atkinson. He hitches himself to that ship. He basically has a career of only success. Oh, wait, he's saying Richard Curtis never did anything himself like he's trying to do a full. No, no, no.

[00:39:59] What he's saying is Richard Curtis has kind of never failed. And he's like, I wrote this script that's about the struggle. Like I understand the failure side of it. Richard Curtis can't grapple with. Right. And he was like, he took my concept and immediately went, well, of course,

[00:40:14] he was a wunderkind from his early twenties. Right. He met the right people. He had the right talent, all of that. And he's basically like what I thought was interesting about this concept is even if you have the winning lottery ticket, you can't cash it in.

[00:40:25] But he's like Richard Curtis couldn't imagine a world in which you don't become immediately the biggest pop star in the world. But I'm also, is it just Richard Curtis or is it just kind of Hollywood being like, no one wants to watch a movie about a guy failing.

[00:40:35] I think it's both. And like, obviously look in my worldview, I'm certainly more inclined to like the fucking Llewyn Davis version of this movie. It's the biggest question this movie poses. Right. Say the Beatles never existed and you can, you know,

[00:40:50] you sort of come out on stage and you sang yesterday. Would everyone just sort of be like, oh, that's nice. Or would they be like, right. You are transforming songwriting as they did.

[00:41:00] The run of this movie I like the most is in the first 30 minutes when he can't get anyone's attention. And he's like, I'm performing yesterday for you and no one will listen to me. What do you guys think? Like forget the movie. What would happen in this?

[00:41:16] I remember hearing about, I think like when like Napster was big, there was some study that someone ran about like the most downloaded songs were just the songs that were listed as the most downloaded. Like they,

[00:41:33] they like faked it where it didn't matter the quality of the songs. They ran something where it's just like, oh, it's popular. So it's popular. So it's popular. So I, I guess I fall on that side of like, but you know, you hadn't heard of the Beatles.

[00:41:50] You watched this. I mean, you've heard of them, but you didn't care. I didn't care. You watch this movie and then you got into the Beatles. He's kind of the argument for maybe the Beatles. I think it's why they wanted this movie that, there's a film here.

[00:42:03] If we get the Beatles catalog and you focus in on the Beatles and not anything else because it's just that notion of like, are the Beatles is kind of undeniable, right? Like undefeated little kids like them as much as old people do.

[00:42:16] Part of that is they're so ever present. Because even though I never intentionally sought out the Beatles, they're a band that you just know every song just from living. So at least the tunes are familiar. Right. There's a built-in nostalgia,

[00:42:29] even though I never like put them on on purpose. What do you think, Ben? Like, do you think like today, today? Right. I just, I'm dropped. My new single is dropping. And we know that Ben thinks that England has never produced a single note of good music. Wrong!

[00:42:44] Dammit! No, but no, but come on. He said that many times in private text threads. That is not true at all. No, and then, and this isn't a world where Ed Sheeran is still a stadium filling success. Huge. Which is very perplexing. Which is a question perhaps.

[00:42:57] And the reality of that one. No offense to Mr. Sheeran, but I think the songs are of course incredible. Right? Sure. The production value, the way that these songs are like recorded and played in this movie leads me to believe

[00:43:11] that maybe they wouldn't necessarily resonate as much as the Beatles actual catalog does. He's doing them unavoidably. They are different. I mean, you need the instrumentation. You need the, even there's the, the, the different recording studio techniques, the sound.

[00:43:30] And they don't really get into it much at all. It's just the one moment where he's like, the guitarist gently weep this way. But you have, you have the scene later where he performs help at the hotel and he really kind of makes it his own thing. Yes.

[00:43:42] Because he's anguished. And you're like, well yeah, these songs are so like just fucking structurally sound right? And potent that like, yes, maybe the way these songs become big again is someone reinterprets them into the musical taste of the time without fucking them up, you know?

[00:43:58] And he's doing cover band version of them. Uh, uh, Josie and the Pussycats, one of the 10 best movies we've ever covered on the podcast. Have you seen Josie and the Pussycats? I don't think I have. I think you'd enjoy it. It's a good movie. Josie and the Pussycats,

[00:44:11] scathing, uh, indictment. Of my character. Of your character. I'm pointing at you. Uh, no, no, no, but it's, it's like a real, uh, angry satire of, uh, the music industry, and if it's a band in the world, it will become the number one band in the world.

[00:44:32] This is like Britney Spears boy band kind of era of music. I might go watch this immediately. I kept thinking about the similarities between these two movies in weird ways, even though that film's less supernatural,

[00:44:42] but basically they're like a band playing to no attention in the back of a bowling alley and they can't get booked. And then a record executive is like, you have the right look. We're going to put you up on a billboard. We'll just put the machine behind you.

[00:44:56] We can make anyone a star. And it starts to become this whole conspiracy in a fun way. But like that movie makes it very clear of like, Oh, this is how the machinery can make an audience like anything.

[00:45:06] This movie has such a weird switch flip of being like, well, the songs are undeniably a hit, but then everyone acts like he's not sellable. So they try to transform them, but they don't change them that much. Yeah. That part was a little, I don't know,

[00:45:23] but I have a question about Joes and the Pussycats. Do they play original songs in that movie? Yes. Because I always find that tricky in movies where you're supposed to believe that, Oh, this song hits super hard. This is one of the biggest hits of the year.

[00:45:36] The Joes and the Pussycats songs are bangers. It's why the movie works. But I feel like with this movie, you solve that problem by just putting Beagle songs. Which works. And even if you're maybe like, Hey, maybe that actually wouldn't be how it went.

[00:45:50] You can still accept like, yes, people like yesterday. Now, would I go see a dude play by himself, like just an electric guitar and be like as like blown away? I don't know. It is interesting that he's a solo act when the Beatles are such an iconic group.

[00:46:08] It's such a weird choice. But if you try and make him a group, you got to get into how the other people. No, it wouldn't be. I understand. It really is the only logical way to do it. We have to touch on Boyle in between Trainspotting 2 and Yesterday,

[00:46:22] of course, mostly Bond. First, he directed a nativity play with Banksy called Alternativity, which is a pretty funny name. Damn, that's sick. At the Waldorf Hotel in Bethlehem. I don't know what that was like. What a career this guy has had.

[00:46:41] Do you know what he's doing right now, Zach? Beyond Pistol, I couldn't tell you. He's working on a dance production based on The Matrix. Wow. Like live? Like a Matrix ballet. It's a Matrix musical event of some sort in Manchester, right? A dance base, not like a musical.

[00:47:03] I have to see it. As we briefly mentioned, he does Trust. That was for FX, correct? Which comes out like two months after All the Money in the World is the same story with like an alternate universe cast.

[00:47:15] It is the reason why they wouldn't push All the Money in the World back and did that in saying we're going to re-shoot Christopher Plummer. This TV show. Because they were like, if we don't come out before the end of the year,

[00:47:27] not only are we going to miss Oscar season, but also this show's coming out in like February. And it was Brendan Fraser, Hilary Swank, Donald Sutherland. Like it had big names in it. Donald Sutherland as J. Paul Getty. It is a really good physical match. He is.

[00:47:41] Apparently it was going to be a multi-season, like their original concept for season two would go to the 30s and you would see like the birth of Getty's monstrousness or whatever. They had a whole idea. But they did get kind of completely overshadowed

[00:47:52] by All the Money in the World, even though that movie wasn't very successful. Now, according to JJ, our researcher, Boyle actually agreed to direct yesterday before he went to James Bond 25. And he was going to do them like somehow in the same year or something insane.

[00:48:06] This would be a quick shoot. It probably was a quick shoot. He loves Richard Curtis. It's come up in previous episodes that he always sort of had this like, I'd love to make that kind of movie at some point.

[00:48:16] And that Life Less Ordinary was him trying to like make a rom-com in a more traditional bent. Yes, which he was, you know. But throughout that early career, especially post-Beach, he's like, I don't want to do big budget movies. Right. So he's never really in touch.

[00:48:29] Don't want to be playing in the studio system. Want to be working small. Post-Spectre, he is tapped. And he and John Hodge start working on a James Bond screenplay. He and Craig had done a thing together for the Olympics. Craig liked him, goes to the broccoli,

[00:48:41] said, what if we brought Danny Boyle in? Boyle brings Hodge in. I can't, I can't get over just the broccoli. Anytime I hear someone say the broccoli, I gotta come in broccoli. It is very funny. You just imagine a bunch of guys in suits.

[00:48:55] You know, they invented broccoli. They invented broccoli. But it's named after. If The Beatles had not existed, would they have? That would be funny if that was a little sly joke too. It was called Little Trees or something. There is a movie in which James Bond doesn't exist.

[00:49:09] And the guy's Googling furiously and then 45 minutes and he realizes broccoli doesn't all have to be in the title. It's because the family never. They never had the money for it. Right. By August of 2018, he was, he departed the project. Yes. Now Boyle said the primary creative dispute

[00:49:25] was between the producers and John Hodge, the screenwriter. They asked him to fire Hodge and Boyle said, no, no. Like I work in partnership with my writers, especially with someone like John Hodge who I've worked with many times. So I'll be leaving the project. And then Boyle left.

[00:49:40] I've worked with many times, so I'll be leaving too. And those Bond movies almost always start in the recent history, start with director bringing in writer or Craig bringing in writer and then the broccolis go, perfect some way it's going to rewrite. To do this.

[00:49:54] Thank you for your new ideas. We're going to run it through the Bond machine and make it Mark Tildesley, a longtime production designer who also did end up working with Boyle, but he also actually worked on No Time to Die said that Danny had quote crazy madcap ideas.

[00:50:06] This is what everyone didn't tie in with whatever was planned. And the whisper at the time, that movie is obviously very elegant. Right. But it just kept on being this. He's trying to do something really weird and the broccolis are pushing back

[00:50:21] and who knows what's going to happen. And this, this scuttlebutt even at that time was he wants to kill off James Bond. And that was a nonstarter. And so he quit the project, which is not sure because No Time to Die ends with James Bond.

[00:50:35] That's not what it was. No, it wasn't. And then they go back to the origins of James Bond in the Cold War. They lost confidence in it. Apparently he wanted to cast Thomas Cote from Cold War, the Polish film as the Russian villain. And I don't know, whatever.

[00:50:53] Well, then the story became, but Danny Boyle is threatening to quit because MGM and the broccolis don't want him to hire this guy. Yeah. And this guy had to put out a statement being like, I'm not a part of this. This movie isn't not happening

[00:51:09] He did meet with Boyle says the big thing he, his big idea was that James Bond had a kid. Yeah. And that's in the movie. He's like, that's the one thing they kept from me. He says they did differently, but still. All right.

[00:51:22] Yesterday, he got to go to Russia after all in this movie. So yeah, he did. He went to the US. Right. Yes, that's absolutely right. Yeah. They don't dig into whether the Cold War may be under a different time or anything like that.

[00:51:36] Just a little remark from Sheeran. I mean, I'm not going to get into all the stuff with this. Obviously. But, you know, this is interesting. Oh my. Did you read this quote, Griff? Richard Curtis talking about how he works. Okay. He'll get his characters together and write conversations

[00:51:54] between them. He says this is a huge part of his creative process. Okay. Have dinner with the characters, spend the night with them. So they discover how to, how they talk. Quote, I'm slightly obsessed with crocodile Dundee. Everyone remembers this is a knife and all that stuff.

[00:52:08] That movie spends a whole hour in Australia. He's like, I like the conversational vibe of early crocodile Dundee. A film we've covered on this. Have you seen crocodile Dundee? I don't think I have. Well, maybe you should as a Yesterday fan. Apparently he was a huge influence.

[00:52:24] I will say when we were watching. We loved all that. That first hour. Him hanging in the bush. Loved it. He was so cool. You never hear people cite that though as like a key point. No, I mean, the movie is like a contemporary of his career.

[00:52:43] It's not like he saw that when he was five. Right. Clearly he must have seen when he was 20 or whatever. This is already working at that point. And then he sees that and he's like, this is what I need to strive for.

[00:52:55] Fair warning when he, if you do watch it, when he comes to New York, things get a little bit more dicey. Oh, just so you know, of Richard Curtis watching Paul Hogan's career and being like, I'm the Beatles and he's the beach boys. We're competing with each other.

[00:53:06] Yeah. Now he said that specifically about this movie or just all his movies. He's talking, he's talking about this movie, but he does seem to just sort of cite Crocodile Dundee. He's always aiming for loose conversational style. It's the high watermark. He also likes the deer hunter.

[00:53:22] That's the other movie. Funny. Which, which ultimate just hang out movie. That's my other comfort food that I didn't think I would like. Right. And you never used to be into Russian roulette. I mean, I think that's a really strong first act. The first hour is the one.

[00:53:42] Vietnam yet. Yeah. I guess that's what he's thinking of. Yeah. Now Richard Curtis also says, I could have done a more complicated piece of sci-fi where you, you know, notice the things have changed because there's no lung cancer or something, you know,

[00:53:58] like, but we didn't want to do that. You know, I wanted to keep everything else ultra realistic. So he's basically telling me not to worry about it. Which is pretty much his previous project. Yes. Right. I mean, he writes a mommy. Here we go again in between.

[00:54:16] Or is that the same year? No, that's 2018. That's the year before. Yeah. But yes, about time. Have you seen about time? His time travel rom-com. Yes. And Mama Mia in those movies does ABBA exist? Yeah. That's their song. Those movies are basically like yesterday.

[00:54:40] If there was no Himesh Patel character who to realize that ABBA didn't exist. And also where like, even though they were a band that had Dancing Queen, they never had much success. That's the thing. Right. Meryl Streep, Julie Walters, and Christine Baranski

[00:54:53] did write Dancing Queen, but none of the other ABBA songs. Only the one came to them. Every other ABBA song has come to them only in moments of great emotion. Correct. And they never had to perform Waterloo. It comes straight out of their soul. Yeah.

[00:55:11] I didn't realize there was such a robust sci-fi adjacent musical. Lily James, of course. Yes. Which films? You know, her and Mama Mia, Here We Go Again is just an insane movie star performance. I think so too. And I love that movie.

[00:55:29] That's a movie that should not work. I haven't seen that one either. And this is what I mean. Oh, wait. I literally just thought of the exact perfect comp to this. The movie Sing. The animated movie Sing. Oh, sure. The animated movie Sing. Yes.

[00:55:50] Which one were you thinking of? Sing Street is another. Sing Street I love. So I went into both of those movies, but Sing really, really hit me where I was like, I don't think I'm going to like this. I'm not even a big...

[00:56:03] You know, guavas don't do it for me. They have their sexual disease problem that concerns me. But I went and saw Sing and I loved it. I did see that one in theaters. And that's a perfect comp. I just loved it. And it made me laugh too.

[00:56:21] I thought it was funny. I figure I'm seeing Sing and Sing 2 in the next couple of years. Sean Clements said in our 127 Hours episode where he's now filling in every gap of an animated film he missed in the last 15 years. Yeah.

[00:56:35] Wait, thing I was going to say about Mami, here we go again. First, Mamma Mia, Meryl Streep lives on Greek Island, runs a hotel, Man of Seafreed's her daughter, never knew her father, finds her mother's old journal, founds out she slept with three guys in the same week

[00:56:49] around the time that she would have gotten pregnant, invites all three to the island to try to figure out which one's her dad. Right? Meryl Streep says, I refuse to do a sequel, even though the first one's huge. And Richard Curtis comes up with, with his

[00:57:02] own head, you should make the sequel, The Godfather Part 2. So the movie is half Amanda Seafreed post Meryl Streep's death trying to run the island, grieving her mother, and half her going back into the journals and trying to imagine what her mother's life

[00:57:16] was like where Lily James plays young Meryl Streep. Wow. And they recreate the three things. You know what happens because they say it in the first week, she meets three guys, she's heartbroken three times. Yeah, but then when you see it.

[00:57:32] And then you see Meryl Streep, which is a thankless task. Oh my God. That it's very clear that her getting cast in this movie is like working title Richard Curtis, everyone being like we're in on this. And she's so cute in this movie. She's got those bangs. Yes.

[00:57:51] Which came first yesterday or Mama Mia? Mama Mia came first. Yeah. Of course, the biggest question is why didn't Richard Curtis direct this? He just doesn't think he's very good at it and he's like, this is the last one I'm ever going to direct.

[00:58:06] Now about time I brought up just because I think about time is a perfect Richard Curtis sci-fi movie in terms of how you time travel. You go into a closet and you close the door and you hug your chest, you're back in time. Right. And I'm like, great.

[00:58:23] I don't need to talk about fucking time loops. I don't need to talk about time loops. I don't need to talk about time. And the movie's concept is so much more complicated, though it is. And yet it works perfectly for everything. Yeah, it's just fun.

[00:58:41] There's a big blackout in the Beatles. I will also say they I will mention that they had also worked together explicitly on the Mr. Bean bit in the whole of Olympics. Curtis did write that. He wrote if you haven't seen it, Zack, he wrote for the Olympics.

[00:58:59] I have not seen it. Which Mr. Bean is playing the Chariots of Fire theme song. They bring out a full orchestra to play the Chariots of Fire theme song and then you realize the camera starts to slowly push in on one member of the band.

[00:59:15] And in fact, it is Mr. Bean stuck among them. He's up to no good. And he's like blowing his nose and then throwing the used tissue into the opening of a baby grand piano. The joke is he's playing like the same thing, but he's like,

[00:59:31] I'm not going to watch the movie. I'm going to watch the movies because they are the only things I'm going to watch immediately now. That's both mamma mia. And Mr. Bean is the only I'll send that right to you. Danny Boyle considers Richard Curtis, our poet laureate of

[00:59:49] romance and comedy, whatever that means. OK, he called the script like Coleridge or Wordsworth unborrowed genius. full of energy and light. Sure, and look, when this movie starts, I'm like, I re-watched Notting Hill pretty recently and you and I got into a bit of a scuffle. We did?

[01:00:08] Yeah, because I was like, that's a perfect movie and you were like, I have some gripes, these things are weird. I have some gripes. No, that's a sterling, perfect screenplay. I'm not kidding, I do believe that this movie is in your perfect movie.

[01:00:18] Can I, okay, can I pose the theory? So we will be scuffling as we continue. That's fine, that's fine. Can I pose the theory? Yeah. You guys, you don't smoke pot, right? Famously. Yeah, once in a while. My friend, I'm hitting dad grass on a nightly basis now.

[01:00:32] Okay, that's true. Gummies, gummies only, gummies only, very low dosage. But they really got you, huh? They really like, you're on the monthly plan at this point basically? Yeah, it's working for me. It's the exact right amount. CBD, I mean, you know, it can help people relax.

[01:00:47] Yeah, a thing I'm notoriously great at. Yeah. But okay, so growing up though, you weren't like big potheads, right? You weren't stoned. No, no. Okay, because I feel like with this movie, it's that thing of being like, dude, did you ever think about?

[01:01:03] And then you're just on board because you're high with your friend. You're like, damn man, I never did think about that. Right, like the sort of, one might say, half-baked ideas that emerge during a little smoke sesh. Sure. Or let's say there's like four characters

[01:01:20] from that 70s show and they're kind of sitting in a circle and the camera's whipping around. Yeah, but I'm just saying, I feel like I'm just immediately like, all right, yeah, so the Beatles, only one guy knows about it.

[01:01:31] This is funny too because when I first saw this movie, I had a little bit of a weed era in college, but I had left it behind completely. So when I first watched the movie on the plane, no weed in my life at the time.

[01:01:44] In between, weed returned slightly to my life. And yet the movie worked exactly the same for me in both circumstances. So there you go. I did take a dad grasp before watching this last night. I watched it, the nighttime formula, I'm just saying, I was looping myself up

[01:02:01] to enjoy this as much as possible. But this opening chunk, I bring up Notting Hill just because I think this is getting at the great Hugh Bonneville, Hugh Grant friend group stuff in Notting Hill that, you know, and four weddings and a funeral

[01:02:17] is running off the same gas as well. Richard Grant is very good at just the old friends hanging out thing. Richard Curtis, you're saying? Oh, Richard Grant. Yes, Jesus, Richard Grant also I would love to hang out with. He probably is a fun hang.

[01:02:29] But Richard Curtis, that's like secretly one of his strongest skill sets is here's a group of people who have clearly known each other since they were 15 and all poke fun at each other but love each other and what nice little traditions

[01:02:41] they have and their fun little activities they do and all their peculiarities. We're like, I wanna hang out with these people. Right. This is nice. Yeah, and then they disappear from this movie. That's a little bit of a bummer for me.

[01:02:51] Yes, yeah, I will admit I did find that odd a bit. Yeah. And it seemed like, oh, okay, here's his group of friends and then you see them maybe one more time at the very end. But the other thing we're setting up

[01:03:02] at the very beginning of this film is Lily James is Himesh Patel's pro bono manager. She drives him everywhere, she books his gigs, she carries his equipment, she sets it up. She does everything for him. Now, Ben, I agree with you.

[01:03:17] I am the king of it just never happened, right? In terms of romantic what if, what could have been. Why are you friends with this beautiful single lady who clearly holds a torch for you? I know this too well, okay?

[01:03:30] What gets me hung up in this movie is it takes the approach of he never once considered it. I buy it, there are minor adjustments that make this relationship work for me where it's like, I buy it if it's like we were both two in our heads

[01:03:47] and we never had the conversation, we were scared to ruin this or whatever. Instead, she's here devoting her entire life to him at the beginning. And he appreciates her so much as a friend. She is the most luminous woman on the planet, right?

[01:04:02] She's this like perfect idealized Richard Curtis, charming girl next door who does everything for him, is his biggest cheerleader. And 40 minutes in she's like, can I ask you the tough question? Why did you never fall in love with me? And he seems gobsmacked at the notion.

[01:04:16] He does, good use of the word gobsmacked. Because he does do the old drop jaw. What do you mean? But maybe he was just gobsmacked by how he thought he would just never have the conversation. Maybe he thought they had reached this sort of equilibrium

[01:04:31] of like, we're just not gonna talk about it, we're never gonna bring it up. Also when you cross that line with a friend, it's like you can't ever go back on the other side. So it's hard to have that. Yeah, there's the risk, sure.

[01:04:45] You know what you guys are saying right now? Am I gonna ruin it? If that is what he said in the scene, I would still be in. Griffin, it's called subtext my man. I just think, David back me up here. He literally makes the gobsmacked face.

[01:04:59] His jaw drops, he's like, what do you mean? Like he's confused by the notion. And that's where I start to go like, what the fuck is going on here? Okay, here's what I will say about their relationship. I do agree her character,

[01:05:15] it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of, yeah, she's devoted her entire kind of life to this guy and his dreams and that kind of thing. And quick rewrite fix. Maybe he was in a relationship for 15 years. Sure, sure. And the timing never worked out.

[01:05:28] Oh, you just broke up with Sarah. Right. You verbalize the, we're such good friends, we don't wanna do anything to jeopardize that, right? Any of those things. There's so many quick one sentence things you can put in there that explains why

[01:05:43] there's clearly a simmering feeling there that is mutual, but it just never happened. I think it might be fixed also by, I think it makes sense on a shorter timeline. Yes. If they hadn't been friends since they were 14. When you go like, oh, she saw him swooning

[01:05:59] through the curtains at his first performance. Then it doesn't hit as hard when it finally comes about because then you don't have that half a life, then what would you have said at the beginning of the podcast? You wouldn't have had anything to say about half a life.

[01:06:13] Half a life is really brutal when she says that. Yes. It's really sort of hammering home like TikTok, like I've wasted time here. Yeah, I just don't buy that he never noticed or considered her in that way. And then we'll get to,

[01:06:28] but some of her decisions later in the movie also are bizarre. Look, we don't have a sense of who he is, really, as a person. Sweet, floppy haired Richard Curtis boy. Well, I've got a couple addendums. He does live at home with his parents,

[01:06:45] lovingly played by Sanjeev Bhaskar and Meera Sehwag. He's like a sitcom legend. Those are two great actors. They're so funny. They were the leads, two of the four characters, two of the four actors on the iconic sort of culturally pivotal British sketch show, Goodness Gracious Me,

[01:07:02] which was like the first time that British Indian people had like a big sketch comedy show. And it's one of those shows, it was so pivotal for me because I had just moved to England and I was like,

[01:07:12] this is a window on humor that doesn't exist in America. Sure. And it's like one of those sketches where like now you watch it and you're like almost all these sketches hold up. There's a couple of things where you're like, eh, it's a little like 90s or whatever.

[01:07:23] Of course. But like the most, maybe the most famous sketch ever. Have you ever heard of Going for an English? Yes. It's like, it's all of them at an English restaurant, all the Indian characters, you know, and they're basically like behaving like English people behave in Indian restaurants.

[01:07:38] Where they're like, what's the blandest thing on the menu? Can you get us four of those? Like, and like things like that, where it's like instead of asking for the spiciest thing and then they're like, we have fries, we need chips, we need chips. 40 plates of chips, please.

[01:07:50] And the guy's like, I think that's too much. And they're like, don't you tell me how to behave! Like, it's so funny. It's a good bit. It like held a mirror up to society. Yeah. It transformed Britain a little bit. Okay. They rule. Yeah.

[01:08:02] They're also really funny in this movie. Yeah. Like he's home with his parents. Yeah. Is it supposed to be kind of an Arrested Development thing? Yes. Right? Like he's kind of an eternal teenager. Yeah, and there's- It's hard to have game when you live with your parents.

[01:08:13] It reminded me a lot of Elton John in Rocketman. He's living with his parents and playing on the piano. I mean, he was like a child at the time. Yeah, he is. Wait a second, he's a child. But, you know, I don't know. He's a little boy.

[01:08:27] That all felt good to me. I do think it's funny that they're like, we need songs that are his own songs that he wrote that just inherently don't connect. Hamash, do you want to try writing them yourself? Did he write them really? He gets the writing credit,

[01:08:39] at least on the summer song I saw. That's amazing. But like there's something kind of passive aggressive about like, we need songs that are close but they're not really good. There is something insipid about the summer song, isn't there? Yes. That's so funny.

[01:08:52] Do you guys think he tries to sneak the summer song onto the track list for the album? Absolutely. That he's like, okay, we can have Yesterday, I saw her standing there, she loves it. Summer song, like track eight. And they're like, I would cut that. That's a B-side.

[01:09:05] He's like, I insist. There's the scene where McKinnon's like, I hate it and I don't want to know anything more about it. Which is funny. Yeah. Like the way she does that. I hate it but I'm not interested. Right. Yeah. She's kind of right.

[01:09:16] That song's kind of insipid. Yeah. I don't even remember the song at all. Something all summer long. But it's also one of these questions where I'm like, this guy is talented, right? Like, you know, singer not the song, he performs these well.

[01:09:30] When he gets the Beatles songs in hand, he performs them well. You kind of understand why like Lily James as a little girl watching him play Wonderwall would be like, this guy's got the goods. Little local papers are gonna write about him

[01:09:43] because the kid knows how to sing and play guitar. But his songs suck. And there's something to the fact that like, at the beginning of the movie, it's not like, I'm here, I'm grinding out and it's just not connecting and I don't know why.

[01:09:56] When he's writing original songs, I'm not getting booked as a cover guy. I almost want him at the beginning of the movie to be like, outwardly, specifically obsessed with the Beatles. He kind of is in terms of his relationship

[01:10:14] with his friends, the language he uses with Lily James. They reference the Beatles a few times. They do. It comes up in his regular vernacular. But I'm like, I kind of like, I was stewing on different things as I was watching it.

[01:10:30] I was like, if this guy's a crazy Beatles super fan and at the start of the movie, he's like, the Beatles had already broken up by the time that they were my age. It's never gonna happen. And you're sort of obsessed with this burst

[01:10:43] of insane creativity, youth, right time, right place, right energy that these guys had that he feels like he's never gonna get and suddenly he's handed their whole library. Do you think he has to be a super fan to know the songs that well?

[01:10:57] Because I feel like the songs are so ubiquitous. No, but I would forget lyrics. It's a weird balance. But he does. He does, which is sort of fun. The Eleanor Rigby bit I think is great. I kind of want more of that.

[01:11:08] I know, because that is the one time, because obviously the early Beatles songs are fairly simple. Maybe I could pretty much do those from memory. Maybe, I mean, I don't know how to play music or I haven't played music in a long time,

[01:11:19] so it'd take a while to figure that out. But I could still probably figure it out. I could release some really great poems. Yeah, right, right. I could just sing yesterday to someone and be like, what chords are these? Yeah, that's part of the power of songs.

[01:11:31] You get on with Ed Sheeran and you could make it happen. But then Eleanor Rigby, it's like, yeah, that's a pretty complex song. It's lyrically pretty dense. I don't remember every word of Eleanor Rigby right off the top of my head. Maybe if I, as he does,

[01:11:45] kind of really went to my memory palace, maybe then I could do it. Look, that's some good Boyle cinematic visualization, him replaying the tape trying to find the... He doesn't phone it in. He doesn't. And he is a way better actor than Richard Curtis is.

[01:11:59] Like, Richard Curtis is a pretty perfunctory visual filmmaker whenever he's directing. About time I think is very good. Yeah, I've only seen that movie once. Some people really love that movie and some people really hate it. They find it manipulative, I guess.

[01:12:13] That's kind of the Richard Curtis thing, though. It's like, he's kind of manipulative. Yeah, it's whether or not it works for you. I have two thoughts that just came up. One is about the relationship between, I don't even remember their characters' names. Jack. Jack Malick.

[01:12:30] Jack and Ellie. Ellie. So I agree, in the script it's a little weak, but I just felt like their performances were so human. I just felt it. I got it from her. I got it from him. I think they're both selling it really hard. Totally, totally.

[01:12:46] So I was willing to kind of let that stuff slide. The other thought I just had is, I cannot believe he didn't perform Wonderwall ever. Because we know that that song doesn't exist as well. Throw that in, add that onto the album. So here's another logic question.

[01:13:03] I'm sorry. And I'm also about to get very frustrated. Why did he invent cigarettes? He could have made a lot of money. That's true. He could have crushed it up to Maccabees. Maybe he did because he's decided he won't, you know. I'm not gonna profit off the Beatles.

[01:13:13] I will profit off of cigarettes. Yes. Beatles open source. Cigarettes, you gotta pay. What's your complaint? And then I have a question. Their origin story of their relationship is she sees him perform Wonderwall at the talent show and she never gets over it. Why not a Beatles?

[01:13:32] If Oasis doesn't exist and he asks her, why do we know each other? What is her memory? Does she exist in alternate timeline where she's like, of course you perform Truly Madly Deeply. Damn dude. I didn't even think of that. That's a great question.

[01:13:44] This is what I think it is Griffin. I know you weren't in Spider-Man Far From Home. But if Beatles had not existed, I may have would have been. Well that is probably true. And I also maybe kind of was a little bit. Okay.

[01:13:57] Oh no, not Far From Home. You're not in Far From Home. Yes, yes, yes. But you're in Homecoming. You're in Homecoming and what do you make an appearance in? Wait, which fucking one is it? The last one. What is the last one? Is that No Way Home? Yes.

[01:14:09] They really should've switched. The home thing was too complicated. It was. The home I think about as being the most important element of Spider-Man and his mythology. The guy's always in his house. Yeah. At the end of No Way Home where it's like, everyone has forgotten about Spider-Man,

[01:14:21] but that's just, or Peter Parker. But that's just kind of like, we just lifted that out and everything else is the same. I think it's the same. She's just like, if you were just like sitting her down being like, well do you remember?

[01:14:32] She'd be like, I don't know, you performed a song. Right. Like it's just sort of like blurry in her memory now. Or it was a cake song. That's my question. No, but I'm saying, I think she just doesn't remember. It's my question.

[01:14:41] In her mind is she just like, huh, what song was it? Or does she now, is there like some timeline mush up that's happened where she's like, I'm from the timeline where you did Savage Garden. But this is the thing. I think she just doesn't remember.

[01:14:53] I'm with you. I think she doesn't remember, but then of course the one thing that kind of. They flash back to it? They do, but I'm saying like. It's just a blur. If you ask her, she'd just be like, oh I don't remember.

[01:15:02] But they flash back to it for us, the audience. We're existing on the outside of both of these universes. Well that's also true. So we do get to see the flashback. Cut to a young him just like, woohoo! When I feel heavy metal! Here's the other thing. Yeah.

[01:15:16] I would love to see that. I can make that argument of like, oh it just, everyone forgot about the beat. Sure. But then John Lennon exists. Yep. The, you know, the. Now this I did want to get into. The on fire ace of spades that this movie plays

[01:15:28] at the poker table. I did want to get into this. You cannot get to that yet. Okay, okay. I'm just saying, that kind of messes. Because I have a lot to say about it. We're gonna get to that, I know. World's largest pin. I know, I know.

[01:15:36] And right here, like we're sort of like, urgh! Like putting this. Urgh! We're trying to get a. But here's my other complaint. We're getting fiery here. Yeah. He's obviously not like, my first album should be called Please Please Me and it should be sequenced this way.

[01:15:52] And I'm gonna, like he's not going to release the exact same album as the Beatles. No, he's like two disc basically Beatles number one. This is my question. What is the sequencing of this album? Yes. Is he putting like songs from Abbey Road

[01:16:05] on the same fucking album as songs from Please Please Me? Because that makes no sense! Yeah, I think he is. You can't pack it all into one record. The guy has no respect for the art of the album. And I think they're all mixed the fuck up too.

[01:16:15] What the fuck is going on? Hey, as somebody who didn't care about the Beatles at all. Didn't matter. Yeah, you're just like, that wave comes and your boat just goes right over it. To the point where, just this is a,

[01:16:29] I'm gonna take the pin out of the linen very briefly. But hold it against the wall so it doesn't fall down to the ground. Pin in one hand holding linen against the wall. I believe when I first saw the movie,

[01:16:39] I maybe didn't know who that was at all. Zach is miming holding the pin. When I, I have. The pin. And when I re-watched it two days ago with my wife, John Lennon opened the door and I turned to my wife and said, who is that?

[01:16:51] So you had seen the film. And this is post watching the entire documentary. Yeah, I've seen the film twice. And you've seen Get Back? I've watched the documentary. Loved it. I watched Get Back, loved Get Back. And still I said, who is that? Wow.

[01:17:04] So that's my level of Beatles knowledge going. Okay, put the pin back. Pin back in the wall. Zach, I'm just thinking about like us talking about the Richard Curtis dynamics, right? And the proper like, Notting Hill, another thing I think it does really well,

[01:17:19] which this movie tries to do a little bit is the sort of insecurity of, am I worthy of being with this person? This person's so successful and they're so beloved and they're destined for greatness. And look at me, I own my little travel bookshop.

[01:17:31] There's the sort of self doubt where the person self-defeatingly fucks up the relationship because they feel insignificant next to this famous person, right? But there's also just this weird sliding doors. Is he just the most oblivious man in the world

[01:17:46] for how outwardly aggressively on his side she is, right? Your story of you meeting your wife and the two of you ending up together is like a good Richard Curtis story. Of like you almost blowing it in your sort of like, this couldn't be. Sure, I mean-

[01:18:04] I think it's incredibly charming story. Sure. But that's like a realistic one where I'm like, yes. Now, just to clarify what you're speaking about. The way I met my wife is she came to an improv show of mine. She tweeted at me, asked me out for a drink.

[01:18:21] And I thought to myself, hmm, I wonder if this woman wants to talk about improv comedy. Right, you jumped to the assumption that she was looking for advice on how to make it onto- Not advice, but more just like pick my brain about improv or whatever.

[01:18:36] Turns out that was not the case. Spoiler alert, we're married now. So yeah, sure, I see that. And now if Danny Boyle made a movie about this, you'd be in here yelling about how little- No, this is what I'm saying.

[01:18:48] I buy, like that makes sense where it's like- Because it was only over the course of about 15 minutes where I had that thought as opposed to half a life. Your wife goes to the show with her friends and she's out at the bar, Ben's smiling.

[01:18:59] It's a charming story. It is, it is. It is a story. It's wonderful, it's wonderful. She goes to the bar with her friends. What a nice surprise to be at a talk improv. Great for me, yeah. Na na na na na. Sorry, go on. And instead talk romance.

[01:19:11] Yes. She like goes to the bar with her friends. She's like, I think that guy was cute. They're like, do it, tweet at him. Zach sees it. He's like, I guess sure, I have some stature in the improv scene. We can talk about improv. Goes out with her.

[01:19:24] And as I remember you telling it, you're only talking about improv for like 15 or 20 minutes. I think even not at all. And then she basically says, you know this is like a date, right? We don't have to talk about improv? No, no, we didn't.

[01:19:37] See, now just like in this movie, we didn't have to make it text. It was subtext. I made a baffled face. And then I quietly in my head went, oh, this is a date. And then we had a date is how it went.

[01:19:54] So maybe that's why I like this movie because I'm equally one of the most oblivious. No, but I mean like. Right, right. You just let, that stuff bounces off you. That is my way that is charming and does not make you seem dumb. Sure, I am dumb.

[01:20:07] You're not. Well, I think you're highly intelligent. I got some old, some tests I could show you. I got some report cards. Some people laying in on this stuff. This is a true story. I once in college took a midterm for a lot of credit in my course.

[01:20:25] And the professor at the top just wrote, yikes. Wow. Did not give me a number grade or a letter grade. Just wrote, yikes. I'm sorry for laughing. No, it was wonderful. It's just very weird. I wasn't trying to. I used to get. Sure, okay, okay.

[01:20:40] I used to get frowny faces on tests. Like in college? I dropped out of college pretty fucking quickly. You ever got a yikes? Yeah, did you ever get a yikes? I don't think I ever got a yikes, but in high school I would do that.

[01:20:52] I mean my stupid high school where David's wife also went. Yeah, they don't do grades. Like pride themselves on we don't do grades. Yeah, but you know what that means? They give you a test. You do frowny face. They give you a test and they go,

[01:21:00] you got five out of 80 questions right. Frowny face. You still know how you did. Sure, it's a score of sorts. And then there's a real frowny face next. They use that like doctor pain scale. Yes, yes. Where it's like decreasing. With gritty teeth.

[01:21:14] Yeah, it's got lots to live. Have you ever gotten a box of ashes because they had to burn it and then give it back to you? Ben, do you? Did that happen to you? No, I'm just joking. Yikes is funny. I just think there, I'm watching this movie

[01:21:30] and for the whole first part of it, I'm like, is the notion that he's like so in his head, caught up in his own shit, so oblivious. She's never considering this stuff. Is this guy kind of adult? He almost reads as a romantic

[01:21:43] for the first like hour of the movie. He seems to have no interest in any woman. It almost seems like it's a topic the movie doesn't even want to brush up against. And then the scene where she flies out to meet him

[01:21:53] when he's there or takes the train. Goes to Liverpool. To Liverpool. To Liverpool. Where he's there on a research trip. Or at Lyons Street Station. Basically, right? And suddenly he becomes like perfect rom-com leading man. Their chemistry is crackling. He's wearing a sweater so fucking well.

[01:22:09] They're hot together. They're very hot. And you're like, great, now have to be together and the movie can test their relationship. And instead she's like, I can't do this, I have to leave. Which I sympathize with her. It seems like you do too, Zayn.

[01:22:21] Yeah, but you know what? Something you just said made me clock. Maybe it's just that he was so focused on am I worthy as a musician? Am I ever gonna get my career off the ground? He couldn't even think about that.

[01:22:32] Now that he's having success in that area, he's able to open his eyes and go, oh, what's been going on in my romantic life? That's called getting self-confidence. It is the interpretation that comes closest to working for me. When I was trying to make the headcanon

[01:22:48] to make it all click for me, I still think they don't quite pull that. It's just the scale of the thing. Of how into him she is. But her saying, it honestly hurts that you've never made a move. I get it.

[01:23:04] But it does come out of nowhere just in this movie. I can understand in the scope of their lives why that would be frustrating. But I am kind of saying to her at the same time, I don't know man, you guys have barely flirted. Rich and famous contract,

[01:23:20] he's getting on a plane the next day and she's like, I'm gonna ask you the eight big questions I've been holding onto for half of my life. If you're gonna do this, then this is it. It's over and I'm gonna date Train Tracks Man. Right. Yes.

[01:23:31] I'm gonna date, I'm gonna date a, you know. Did you watch all of the deleted scenes? I don't think I watched all of them but I watched a significant portion of them. A thing I found very interesting

[01:23:40] and I was sort of trying to like puzzle piece this together. It feels like from watching the deleted scenes, the movie originally had a somewhat different order. Uh-huh, three sequences. And he basically flies himself out to LA to try to pursue the career.

[01:23:55] He gets fired from his day job. Yeah. And he's like, this is the motivation I need. Yeah, which is kind of a thread they dangle and then forget about. Yes, I did not watch that. This is the motivation I need to get on the plane

[01:24:04] and go out there with Joel Fry and they're like staying at a shitty hotel and it feels like the hookup hasn't happened. It almost feels like, from the deleted scenes. This is interesting because it's- Ed Sheeran hires him to be the support act

[01:24:18] for the one show in Russia. Right. Kate McKinnon does not discover him for another like 20 to 30 minutes of the movie. This is just a different version of the movie where it's like him getting famous is- Takes a little longer. Part of the stakes.

[01:24:30] Whereas this, the movie we actually have, him getting famous is almost like inevitable. But within that- The minute anyone he sees him perform, they're like, I'm into you. Within that, in these deleted scenes, he's out in LA and he calls her

[01:24:42] and he's talking about how bad it is, betting himself he still can't get any attention, this and that. And she's like, well, I have some big news to tell you. Right. He's like, what? I'm seeing somebody. I'm seeing somebody. I'm seeing Trainman. Much earlier.

[01:24:54] And he, well, she doesn't say Trainman. She says, I'm seeing somebody. He goes, who? She goes, that's too much information for one call. And then it cuts back to her and you see Trainman in the background. And then there are multiple deleted scenes

[01:25:05] that are her back home with Trainman and her friend. And her friend, who they clearly established as sort of pining for Trainman. Yes. Okay. I was going to say, it feels like that was deleted because in the movie,

[01:25:16] she sort of steps up and is excited to be with Trainman, but you basically don't ever see her. Trainman also has much more of a setup, which is they go, they rent a recording studio. The guy at the recording studio is like,

[01:25:30] oh, I'd buy that song from you if you rewrote it into a jingle for this or whatever. And he's so offended. He's like, that's the greatest song ever written and you want to turn it into a fucking jingle. And he storms out and he's like complaining about it

[01:25:42] at the cafe afterwards. And then Trainman follows them to the cafe. And he's like, I'm so sorry. I just quit my job. I love that we're calling him Trainman. That song is a masterpiece. I'm in on this. I want to produce your album, right?

[01:25:55] His name is Gavin, I believe. Right. Yes. So it's sort of like, Trainman is the first guy who really bets on him and like stakes his career on it. Again, right. This is a more complex version of the movie that's career focused. And you see Gavin-

[01:26:06] But instead they made perfect choices and a perfect movie. You see Gavin and Ellie connecting from that early moment. So then when he's in LA before he's successful, she tells him, I'm dating somebody. You see her having fun with Gavin, right?

[01:26:19] Then when she would go out to Liverpool, she has already had a boyfriend, which in this movie, she says, I don't want to be a one night stand. Perpetually single. She goes, this is your final chance. He says, I got to get on the plane.

[01:26:31] And then when he goes to LA, she calls him and goes, now I'm dating somebody in your absence because you just fucked it up. Which is a pretty big shift. It is. There's a logic to it. I understand- To like, she's held the torch. Yes.

[01:26:46] And when she finally lets it out, she's like, the spell is kind of broken. She's like, I should just date Train Boy. Right. I mean, he's tall. Yeah. Friendly. Music adjacent. Yeah, exactly. And it's late. It's just a little chiller.

[01:26:59] You see her having chemistry with Train Guy earlier versus it being like, I don't know. Lily, Lily James could have chemistry with a fucking fern. Yeah, but it feels like she goes back almost with contempt and she's like, who's the last guy I met?

[01:27:09] Train Guy, come over here. You're my boyfriend. Maybe they have a lovely thing going on. In the deleted scenes, they do. But also when you get your fucking heart broken, sometimes you just need to reach for some comfort. It was easy.

[01:27:21] I mean, the thing about Train Boy is he even takes the breakup like Bill Pullman in fucking Sleepless in Seattle where he's like, what can I do? Yes. I can't fight love. He's extremely chill. And then they did, it ain't bad being number two.

[01:27:34] Pulp were never number one. And then they need to like cut to her teacher friend standing looking at Train Boy being like, well, you're not gonna be alone because I've been secretly pining over you the whole time. He basically just gets Lily James, Diet Lily James.

[01:27:47] He gets like Lily James generic brand. So quickly, so cleanly where he's like, no one is sad. And like, and this is a world without Coke. I was gonna say he gets the Pepsi to her Coke, but there's no Coke. No, Mr. Pibb.

[01:27:57] He gets the, yeah, he gets the RC Cola. Shasta Cola. Here's another thing in deleted scenes. When he does the concert in Russia, he sleeps with hot, mean Russian tech woman. He mentions there's a lady. Yes. A brief. They have a one night stand.

[01:28:15] You're like, oh, he's like cashing in on the Beatles thing. And then most infamously, this movie has this deleted flirtation with Ana de Armas, which was in the trailer. You see him on the James Corden couch playing something and Ana de Armas sitting next to him.

[01:28:31] Is she playing herself? No, she's playing a fake movie star. Sure. Just named, I forget, but. Right, like Vanessa, Vanessa Showbiz. I like Ana de Armas. Me too. I will say watching this deleted scene, Zach, I don't know if you had this feeling. I did watch the scene.

[01:28:48] Most of this scene is. And I did call my lawyer. Okay. Okay. Okay. Most of this scene is James Corden, famous gotcha journalist. Yeah, in this movie, it makes it seem like going to, it's like going on meet the press with Tim Ross or whoever.

[01:29:06] He's gonna hold your feet to the fire. But one is a nightmare sequence. This one is reality. This is reality. But I swear in the actual trailer for the film, you presented the nightmare as if it was in the movie. Right. As if it was in real life.

[01:29:19] Right. And she's not in the nightmare. She's not. Right. Okay, so in real life. He says, so part of your famous lure, not only do you write all these songs, you play them by yourself, you're one man only, whatever.

[01:29:30] But also apparently you write all of these in 15 minutes. People have watched you write these in real time. Here you go. Here's a guitar, write a song right now on TV. Yes. Which is the kind of thing Corden does.

[01:29:40] Also happens in other moments in the movie as well. People do keep being like, all right, come on. Right. So he goes, write something. And then he's like, ah, plays something. Right? What does he play? He plays the song Something. One of my favorite Beatles songs. Good, clever.

[01:29:55] One of my favorite Beatles songs as well. And then most of the sequence. Didn't even pick up on that, but love it. It's a true character song. It just cuts to Ana de Armas watching him play this song. Sure. And it is one of the most convincing,

[01:30:05] silent, wordless, watching someone fall in love acting performances I have seen. Basically for just like 40 minutes, you watch Ana de Armas go through an entire life with this man. As Richard Curtis says, she's brilliant and radiant in the scene. Yes. And that was the problem.

[01:30:22] That people got flipped out in test screenings because they were like, why is he not dating her? They were like, it's just too complicated. Either they want him to just get with her or they're mad that he's like, Even considering. Briefly very entangled. Right.

[01:30:37] Where they're like, this is unsympathetic. I want him to be with Lily James. Now unless there's a deleted scene that is not included on the iTunes extras. No, no, that's it. That's it. It's just the performance, the two of them next to each other

[01:30:45] and it cuts to her in bed watching it on TV and crying. Richard Curtis says, Seeing the connection. His favorite joke in the film, which apparently his son came up with is that he plays something when being asked to play something. Funny.

[01:30:56] And he was really sad to cut that, but he was like, the Ana de Armas thing was too complicated. It was messing with the test screenings and all that. It's gotta go now. And of course, when they cut it out, all complications were over. Psych, just kidding.

[01:31:08] Ben, do you know what this movie's number one lasting legacy? A thing that is still unresolved is? No. Ana de Armas fans. A big thing. Ana de Armas fans who are rabid. Even by the standards of online movie fans. Of like modern movie stars,

[01:31:23] she weirdly has like the most organized, intense- Like if you put them in a gladiator pit with like Zack Snyder fans, they would dismantle them. It's truly up there with like Snyder bros and like Swifties. To the point where I may not even wanna weigh in to any-

[01:31:37] I may not even mention her. But they're crazy about her. For someone who, when this movie comes out, is like pretty much just starting to connect, right? But they include in the trailer her sitting next to him at the James Corden show. There is a class action lawsuit-

[01:31:56] Still unresolved. That is still unresolved from Ana de Armas fans saying that they were sold this movie on false premises. Because she's in the trailer for a second or something. That it was false advertising. That basically they never, ever, under any circumstances

[01:32:14] would have paid $15 in theater or 4.99 for a digital rental if Ana de Armas had not been in the trailer, they watched it only for her. She does not appear even for a second. And because of that, they demand their money back

[01:32:25] and it has become a lawsuit that might end up like ripple effect- Changing like the advertising. The way trailers are allowed to be made. That you're not allowed to put anything that's not in the final cut in a trailer. Because right now it's still ongoing.

[01:32:36] It keeps on getting approved. It keeps on getting pushed to further and further courts. And it's like, they might have to refund every Ana de Armas fan who rented this movie. Oh my God. At least some amount of damages.

[01:32:48] They might have to send out like $5 iTunes gift cards. What is that? Thousands of Ana de Armas fans. Who are they suing? Universal Pictures! Universal I think, yeah. Okay, okay. Comcast, the owners of Universal. The owners, okay. Yeah. For sure, you know. That's really funny.

[01:33:05] I find it so funny that like, A, there are many instances- Just to be clear to the Ana de Armas fans listening, I agree with you 100%. We all support your call. I'm trying to sign on to the lawsuit. We're signing on. That's super serious.

[01:33:16] I do think it is genuinely, I'm kind of like, hats off to you. If you can win a battle against this corporate BMO, fine. I just think it's so funny that there are so many movies that feature like alternate takes, shots.

[01:33:28] Because they make these trailers before the movie is done. If not even clips of scenes that do not exist in any form in the movie. And then one step beyond that, Marvel and some of the other blockbuster films now will purposefully design things

[01:33:40] only to be in the trailer to throw people off their scent. Like they finish visual effects for fake scenes, putting characters in things to not spoil that this character dies at the beginning of the movie or whatever it is. And this is the movie that breaks everything.

[01:33:54] It's putting Ana de Armas on a couch in one shot is the one where they were like, we are being lied to. Yeah, well, they were lied to. It's so funny too because even if the scene had made it in,

[01:34:06] do you think they would have all been like fully satisfied? No, they would have been furious. Because she's barely in the movie. That he doesn't end up with her. Wait, but what if they made a movie where it was about her character? Like a side movie?

[01:34:20] That would be such a funny settlement that they're like, thank you. Like it's like we order you to make, right, exactly. We have to make tomorrow starring Ana de Armas showing the parallel plot in which she interacts with him briefly. Every member of the suit gets a voucher

[01:34:34] for one free ticket to tomorrow. This future film, which has to have a budget of at least $30 million. That would be good. That would be good if that's how movies get made, going for the judges to just order them. It's coupon the movie shit.

[01:34:47] It is your favorite sketch. I mean, I will say this about Ana de Armas fans and I say this with all due respect. They're right and correct and smart and keep it up. But I also think they will never be satisfied.

[01:34:57] We love you, stand back and stand tall. Right, stand by. I think you're correct. Sure, stand by. But they'll never be satisfied. No. It's an endless mall. It's never gonna be enough. Right, but like that's fine. That's part of what fuels it. Of course.

[01:35:09] Right, there's always another battle to fight. Right, they thought Ana de Armas didn't have enough screen time in Blonde. Oh boy. And I have contacted my lawyer about that as well. Yeah, I mean, I've got a lawsuit to file about Blonde,

[01:35:23] but it's definitely not enough time being spent on it. Um, what are we, you know, okay, so like, you know, he's about the plot. I mean, we haven't really talked about Sheeran. Obviously we got the opening. He's a lovely boy.

[01:35:37] His one break he gets is doing the song on local TV, which bombs and the host is dismissive, but it happens. And he does the festival when he plays it, like the chill out tent. Right, but I like all these bits of like him playing

[01:35:51] for his parents and them taking phone calls and all this sort of stuff. Little cameo for Michael Kewanuka, British musician. He's the one who fires Joel Fry. I went to school with his brother, Robert. Oh, I love that scene. Yeah, that scene's funny.

[01:36:04] This is when I'm enjoying the movie the most. The opening of the movie was so well-paced for me. Like I loved every little like, you know, yeah, he does it on the show and it doesn't quite work. And then he does it and he incrementally gets the success.

[01:36:19] Like it felt like a compressed, like biopic, like of a real band, basically. You see them kind of make their way up and they get bigger gigs and then another band sees them, invites them on the road. I loved all of it.

[01:36:33] So he does this local TV appearance. It feels like it doesn't make any difference, but it turns out that quietly superstar Ed Sheeran lives in this small town because he wants to have his off the grid. Yeah, he's within the local TV catchment area.

[01:36:47] Right, and he happened to catch it and he thinks it's a great song. And he comes over to Jack's house for some reason. I will say this film is set, I believe in Suffolk and Ed Sheeran is from Suffolk. So I guess that tracks.

[01:37:02] It was another logic loop closed. Perfect screenplay status confirmed. Ed Sheeran. That just turned to me with the energy of a lawyer in like a divorce settlement. So we agree on next item. Ed Sheeran. His hands were crossed. Can I just say? Yes.

[01:37:22] I bear this man no good or ill will. Sure. Here's my entire knowledge of Ed Sheeran. I know he's a famous musician. Game of Thrones actor, of course. I remember when he was on Game of Thrones and everyone got grumpy about it.

[01:37:33] I've listened to his off menu episode. Anyone who's been on off menu is a good in my book and his episode was very fun. James the Caster come on blank check. Yeah, please. Or Ed Gamble. And I know he's sort of just this little ginger boy

[01:37:44] with glasses, but he also raps. And all his albums are called like plus or minus or division or times. Sure. And square root. What is he? He looks like a human Muppet. He's a little Muppety boy. I know also that he writes songs for a ton of, yes.

[01:38:05] Right, he's generally a very successful songwriter. This is what I think is kind of. And I know he's sort of in the Taylor's, like he's sort of Taylor Swift, he toured with her. He got discovered as a busker too. Right, yeah. He's got that back.

[01:38:17] This is what I think is kind of interesting about it being Ed Sheeran in this movie is it was written to be Chris Martin. Oh, interesting. Which sure, but Ed Sheeran is more the classic like one man with a guitar actual success story.

[01:38:29] But not only that, basically like here's this guy who looks in no way like a traditional pop star who does not have that swagger, that energy, right? Is kind of inherently goofy and, but like voice of an angel and wow, listen to these songs he writes.

[01:38:45] And it's sort of like he is the model for what they're trying to argue Jack Malick would be in this movie. Where it's like this guy out of nowhere, but the songs work. It just cuts through. Do any of y'all like Ed Sheeran?

[01:38:57] I have no opinion of him whatsoever. You've heard some of the big songs. I like the shape of you, you know, I like any time I hear him, I enjoy him. He was a guy where I like, I was hearing the name everywhere

[01:39:08] and I was seeing pictures of him and I was like, really, this guy's a pop star? And then I was like, I've never heard an Ed Sheeran song. I've never heard an Ed Sheeran song. It's weird that he's so successful. And then you realize, oh I've heard some.

[01:39:19] Right, and I was just like, none of these sound like what I assumed this guy was. But yeah, it's like his songs play at every fucking Supermarket. I mean, I feel the same way. Yeah, I like completely like ignore, actively ignored this guy.

[01:39:33] And then realized, oh actually I know like five of his. Which is essentially how I felt about the Beatles prior to this movie. Sure, sure. Truly. But you needed to be him, I think, in the sense that like he bucks against the idea of

[01:39:47] things are only gonna get successful if the machinery is already behind it. Sure, right. Because he's basically like game recognize game. I know a good song when I hear it. If I put you in front of my fans, this is undeniable.

[01:39:56] Slowly you will just worm your way into people's ears. This is what's funny about, again, like this movie isn't too worried about the complexity of his career. It's also not that worried about another very obvious concept for a movie like this,

[01:40:11] which is once the corporate machinery gets going, you're doomed. They corrupt. I would suggest that. Yeah. Mostly just to have a little fun. Exactly, the McKinnon character's kind of annoying. Yes. The scene with... Lamorne Morris. Lamorne Morris from New Girl, you know, is funny.

[01:40:28] I think it's like, oh corporate record speak. Lamorne Morris, forever underused. We deserve so much more of him. Yeah. But neither of those things are like, oh my God, this guy's fucking lost. No, and especially with the pacing of this movie.

[01:40:41] It's just kind of like, he is wearing that corny vest. And that's an indicator of like, uh oh, something's going awry. There's a scene in Josie and the Pussycat Sack where you have this montage of everything like blowing up for them, right?

[01:40:56] And then like Josie turns to the other two and she's like, does anyone else find it weird that this has all happened in the last two days? And it's kind of like a good meta joke, but it's also part of the thing of like,

[01:41:06] the machinery is so fast. Right, and also just the structure of these movies work so quickly. There are parts of this movie where I feel like, has it been two days? How quickly are things advancing? I will say, I don't think this movie's worried about anything.

[01:41:19] No, I agree with you on that. That's what's interesting about the deleted scenes is that they thought about worrying about it. They fleshed all of that out. And then they were like, why don't we just not? Just vibe it out. And then of course, the most pivotal example,

[01:41:32] the final act twist that there are other people like him who we assume were also in a traumatic injury the second this magical event happened or something. You see them do a concert and they cut to a large bearded man in the back and he looks mortified.

[01:41:46] And then you start seeing him follow him down the street at different points in time. There's also deleted scene where they establish the other woman and you see her watching them on TV. So you pin her into that. But when they confront him, they're just like,

[01:41:59] thanks, it's really nice to hear the Beatles. I think that's nice. I loved it. I don't mind it. I just like that they- Well first, there's the press conference. There's a press conference where you hear one of them say, who is your favorite Beatle?

[01:42:11] And one of them is holding up a yellow submarine. And in that moment you're like, oh no, is he about to get a mountain crumble? Do they want to expose Miss Gammer or also, you know, my mind jumps to, are they gonna fucking assassinate him?

[01:42:22] It does feel like ominous. No, this movie's too gentle. Yeah, should've- Cutting to them following him in the streets and shit. Yeah, I mean, I know what you're saying. I was getting on edge watching it. I thought they were just gonna call him out

[01:42:37] and be like, you're a frat. Which they start to do. And then he's backstage, Joel Fry goes like, these two people, they brought a yellow submarine. They seem weird, I can send them away. Which that's another logic thing. How does the yellow submarine still exist?

[01:42:49] Because his records disappeared. My wife and I had a 10 minute conversation about this. We were like, did they paint a submarine yellow? It might just be from some other, maybe it's a Paw Patrol toy or something. I mean, and then I- That could be true.

[01:43:00] Ben just lit up. Ben liked that. And then I start thinking like, sure he's coming out with, she loves, you know, I wanna hold your hand. But is he gonna bust out yellow submarine or people are going to be like, the fuck is this? Yeah.

[01:43:15] I do like the joke of when Ed Sheeran is so impressed with Back in the USSR that he's like, what a weird choice to call it the USSR. Why would you today write the song? That is one of the riskier ones, he busts out.

[01:43:32] What's the most difficult Beatles song to try and sell in 2019? I will say, I was surprised they did not comment with a meta joke about the, she was just 17. I know, they do that and then they just move past it. And people lose their minds.

[01:43:49] And place it twice. People enjoy it. They love it. They could have easily had a joke there about him making it, she was just 21 or something. Right, because of course they have, hey dude, right? There are other things that get altered.

[01:44:01] They make the comment about he fucked up all the lyrics to being the benefit of Mr. Kite. Yeah, right. Being for the benefit of Mr. Kite. The arrangement's wrong. I'm surprised you even tried to do that. Way over my head, that's a weird one.

[01:44:12] That's again where I start to get hung up on like, what is that just track eight on your fucking album? Like, Sgt. Pepper is a concept album. Those songs build into each other. Even on a double disc, that's not making the debut. Yeah, all right.

[01:44:24] Is he just going for Maxwell Silverhammer? The fucking, you know, I wanna hold your hand? Like this doesn't work. Those songs are supposed to be, this was an album ban. They basically invented the rock album. Yeah, also look, I'm a movie guy.

[01:44:38] I wanna see him pitch the movies. Oh, that would be funny. They did not touch the movies at all. If he's just like, okay, listen, we're on this magical mystery tour. Yeah. I like when one of, at one point someone's like- Well, that's the other thing,

[01:44:49] the Beatles are so psychedelic and that's the other thing where it's like, well, that wouldn't track now. No, yeah. All the later stuff. Someone asked like, what does Hard Day's Night mean? He's like, I don't know. Yeah, good question. It's kind of a funny joke.

[01:45:00] Yeah, I like that. My guess is I Am The Walrus. I think that song, if people heard that, they'd be like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, I Am The Walrus is up there. Cuckoo, ca-choo. Or if he was just like trying to recreate like Revolution 9

[01:45:16] or he's like, okay, and then it's like, you know, the sound- They'd have a great scene of Kate McKinnon reacting to that. That would be funny. If she's like, uh, what? She'd be like that. So we're all on the same page

[01:45:27] that this movie should have been longer, I think. I mean, would Charles Manson not exist? Okay, look, you can't even touch that one. They already do the absolute insanity of bringing John Lennon back. They can't also, I mean, a truly daring transgressive filmmaker, and I love Danny Boyle,

[01:45:44] would show her watching a Sharon Tate movie that was clearly made that year. Okay? Something really crazy like that. She plays the mom in My Best Friend's Wedding or some shit. Because that's what I would do. I Google Beevils don't exist. Okay, Sharon Tate.

[01:45:58] Like, I just immediately, I would be like, how deep does this go? You don't go to Childish Gambino next? Okay, that's also insane. Clearly his second favorite musical act is Childish Gambino. Yeah. In the universe in which you are the main character in this movie,

[01:46:14] and you're the only one who remembers the Beatles. And I'm probably almost immediately like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to record those songs. The movie cuts to two weeks later, your wife knocking on the door, you haven't showered, your beard is to the floor.

[01:46:25] David, you haven't eaten anything. I got to Google 15 more things! There's so many implications! And I have like a list of like, still exists, doesn't exist, that have like been scrawled on the wall. You're looking for the connections? I think if it was me,

[01:46:40] I genuinely, when I first discovered that no one else remembered, I would go, huh. And then it would never come up again. You'd forget. It would just never come up. Does this mean in this universe the Rudles don't exist, David? Probably not!

[01:46:54] And what a tragic moment that would be. Oh, the monkeys wouldn't exist. The monkeys wouldn't exist. Or do they? Did the monkeys become the definitive rock act of the early 60s? Damn! Last train to Clarksville? The thing with the two fans who remember.

[01:47:10] Yeah, and they are essentially just like, which makes sense that they can't be, they can't expose him, who would listen to them. They would sound crazy. So instead they're just like, it's nice to hear the song. Which that felt very real to me. It is nice.

[01:47:21] If you did remember the Beatles and it all disappeared and all of a sudden you hear a guy doing pretty fun, good versions of the songs, you'd be like, this is great. I love hearing them again. So a sterling kind friend of the show, past and future guest,

[01:47:35] I ran into her at a birthday party last week. Oh, all right. And she said, you have a defender on for yesterday, right? And I said, Zach Cherry. And she said, he'll be great. You don't like it, right?

[01:47:45] I've heard you make a last night comments over the years. And I said, yeah, I have a lot of problems with this movie. And she went, look, I saw it, I think they were working on Search Party. She was a writer on that.

[01:47:56] She saw it with Charles Rogers, another past and future guest friend of the show who also threw his hat in the ring too yesterday. He said, I'd either do train spotting or yesterday. And we were like, why don't you take train spotting? And Craig Rowan,

[01:48:08] who is in that boardroom scene with Lamar Morris, great UCB guy, comedy writer, Craig Rowan. Very funny. And all of his dialogue is cut out and they went to go see it. I think Danny Bull sent him an email, but like only the day the movie came out

[01:48:22] that was like, I'm so sorry, mate, we did cut your stuff out of the movie. They all went to see it and we're like, we had this like near religious experience where we almost went in upset like that he was cut out of the film

[01:48:33] our friend was seeing it with. And then had such a good time. And then had such a good time. And she was like, I don't know if it was just right place, right time, but we all have continued talking about this.

[01:48:40] Charles and I texted each other four weeks ago and just said, still thinking about yesterday. And I said, me too, I was just thinking about it on the drive home years later. And she said, I think I understand all the things that bug you about this movie,

[01:48:54] but I think you're missing the core. And I said, what's the core Starley? And she said, I don't wanna tell you, I wanna see if you find it. I trust you, I wanna see if you find it. And so I watched the movie last night

[01:49:05] and I email Starley today and I go Starley for the love of God, please help me. I am befuddled. Yeah, I'm Stanley Tucci, but I haven't made it to the core. What is the core? And she said, when are you recording?

[01:49:16] And I said about an hour and a half. And she went, okay, standby, core incoming. And then she sent me a very long email. Which is like Starley's want. Yes, and by the way, very well written. We love it. But I will not read the full thing here,

[01:49:31] but this was the cornerstone of her, like that this movie really as a text about the Beatles first and foremost, about the just sort of like odd ephemeral power of the Beatles and the cultural good of them existing and almost like the public resource

[01:49:49] of needing them in our world combined with what she views as the ultimate act of kindness in this film. I think she said made her cry and still makes her cry and rewatching it, which is the John Lennon reveal, which happens after this confrontation.

[01:50:04] The guy knows he's now off the hook. The woman hands him a slip of paper. She went, by the way, it took a lot of searching, but I thought you might want this. You don't know where it's going. You see him driving to the countryside, right?

[01:50:14] They're on the beach. He knocks on a door. Who opens the door? It is Robert Carlyle in what let's say is a pretty eerily accurate makeup job. Is it too eerie? There's something almost disturbing about it.

[01:50:31] I was watching and I was like, is this a deep fake thing? Like at certain point you realize, cause he's uncredited. I didn't know he was going to be in the movie. I didn't know the character was getting in the movie. I certainly know it was Carlyle.

[01:50:40] And it was when I saw it at Tribeca, which was obviously like two months before it came out, they did the whole like, and please don't spoil the thing we do at the end of this movie before the movie. So I was like, all right, something's coming.

[01:50:51] When he first opens the door, I went like, did they find some guy who just looks exactly like him? Is this weird digital shit? I also did not initially clock that it was Robert Carlyle. When it goes to their longer conversation and you're mostly seeing him in profile,

[01:51:06] the makeup kind of falls apart. It feels like it only works dead on. And then you realize, oh, it is just prosthetics and it's prosthetics that basically benefit from like forced perspective. It almost looks like he's wearing like a sort of- Like a mascot head.

[01:51:20] Yes, yes, like a P, what's the word? Butt? Maybe that's- Plastered, you know? But head on it totally works. But head on it totally works. If he got to that age. We don't know. Head on it's weird. Zach's like, you can't prove to me

[01:51:30] that he wouldn't look like that. That might be exactly what he would have looked like. But let's interrogate the logic of the scene for a second. And for one, of course, we're told these other two fans found him. Yes. That they, I guess they were like me.

[01:51:42] They started Googling so furiously that they tracked John Lennon down. Right. He knocks on his door. He goes, oh my God, are you him? Are you John? He goes, yes. Then it cuts to them like walking on the beach, sipping tea, having deep philosophical conversations, right? Absolutely.

[01:52:03] In this sort of very vague sense where John's like, I had a good life. I had a job I loved. I fought for the woman I was with. Like I've won some battles. The biggest questions. Are you happy? Right. Did you do what you wanted in your life?

[01:52:17] This guy clearly just chills in his seaside hut. And if a stranger comes by being like, hi. He's like, all right, buddy, let's take a walk. How are you doing? Because you're seeing this time lapse. And then like three minutes in he goes like,

[01:52:28] by the way, who are you? He asks it late. Yeah. He lets him in, cup of tea, long walk. I'll tell you about my dead wife. Here are my wins. Here are my losses. By the way, what's your name again? Not asking why, who are you?

[01:52:42] Why are you here? What are you probing me? And to that I will say, vibes. Hell yeah. He goes, how old are you? He says, what, 78? 78? Oh my God, you live to be. You made it to 78. Right. And he's like, you're crazy. A weird intense conversation.

[01:52:56] But he's sort of trying to bite like, oh, well I guess you should get help. Like a little help from your friends. Whatever he said. Right, exactly. Double fantasy. Imagine if there's no people. It's nice to see that he made it to old age. I love John Lennon.

[01:53:10] I think he's a great guy. But here is my question. Does that imply that the other Beatles were assassinated in this universe? It is weird that when. They don't answer the other questions. Because they never come up. That's true.

[01:53:24] The only time they come up is in the nightmare. They mention Paul and Ringo, who are of course to him, to Jack, the two living Beatles. So I guess in his nightmare he would be like, well they'd still be alive. They dodge George entirely,

[01:53:38] because I guess they just don't want to touch that, you know, he died of cancer. I guess you can't really virtual history that in the same way, although of course, cigarettes don't exist, maybe you could. But we don't have to talk about that right now.

[01:53:49] But you're saying what? They all got, they all died? No, I'm just posing the question. Because in the world where the Beatles don't exist, if it's just an inverse, if the plane is Beatles don't exist, then John Lennon doesn't get assassinated.

[01:54:09] If the Beatles do exist, other Beatles do get assassinated. You're saying it's a, is it a direct mirror? Yeah, exactly. I could see McCartney becoming a politician. I mean, you know, he's like, he's likable. He's an intelligent guy. Handsome, pretty.

[01:54:27] Ringo probably still just has like a viral Twitter account where he's like peace and love, peace and love. People are like, ah, it's the peace and love guy. I love that guy. He just becomes a float model. He just only posts this one thing every day.

[01:54:37] No, but it's weird. So, you know, he then has this moment of like clarity, right? He pulls all the strings. He asked to take over a Sheeran concert. He invites everyone in his entire life. He hooks up all the cameras. Joel Fry taps into the mainframe.

[01:54:51] This is of course after he's done his rooftop concert where he screams help and it's sort of like, which I love. I think that's a good, yeah. He really kind of kills that. And also the first time I watched it,

[01:55:02] I did not know that Beatles did a famous rooftop concert. Of course. So that went over my head. That went over your head, but you still like, I mean, I want to point out of course, all the songs in this film were sung live. Yes.

[01:55:13] And you can feel it, you know, like it's not lip synced at all. Boyle wanted that. He's a star. That immediacy, yes. So he does this Sheeran concert where he seemingly does an hour of new songs. Yeah, he really, yeah, that's the thing.

[01:55:26] What is this concert where Sheeran's like, hello, my 70,000 fans assembled here at Wembley Stadium, Britain's largest stadium. Anyway, ta-ta, here comes Jack to do not like one or two songs. I think Sheeran has been so thoroughly like little brothered by him. Yeah, yeah, just fucking ruins.

[01:55:45] After their songwriting competition that he's just like, all right, man. He can't get it up. Whatever you want, ruins. For people. He's just like stalking the earth. For people who have not watched this movie, it's not like Sheeran's in a cameo. He's in two scenes playing himself.

[01:56:00] No, he's like the fourth character. With Ed Sheeran. Yeah, he gets the win. And Kate McKinnon. He's in it so fucking much. And there's the scene where post concert, when this guy's fucking killed, he goes like, here, let's do it. Challenge. Right, right, right.

[01:56:16] We both go to separate rooms. 15 minutes. I'll write a song, you'll write a song. And he comes out and he sings them's chord in challenge. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, Jack is like, he does Long and Winding Road. Right. And he goes, Ed Sheeran says,

[01:56:31] my friends always told me someday it would happen. Who are your fucking friends? What the fuck are you talking about? They're just like, Sheeran, you might be on top now and I will expect you to pay for this dinner. Right. But someone's coming.

[01:56:43] But he frames it like his friends go, Ed, we know of course you are uncontested the greatest songwriter of all time. Number one. No one could challenge this. Wait, hold on, let me look this up. Ed Sheeran's friends. But someday. Nothing's coming up. Oh no! Oh my God.

[01:56:57] You're just seeing a Friends the TV show. Someday there will be another. It's almost like a Jedi prophecy. Someday there will be the one man who can write songs better and faster than you. I think Kate McKinnon says he's John the Baptist, you're Jesus.

[01:57:09] She does make a John the Baptist joke. And he makes the Salieri Mozart joke. But there is this attitude that he has where he's like, I was told this day would come. My time is up. Yep, it's over. Don't even let the audience vote.

[01:57:21] You are the shadow that has been stalking me. So he's had the debut concert. The album, I assume, has now come out. Or is about to or whatever. I think it's about to. Yeah, it hasn't come out yet because Kate McKinnon makes no money. Of course, of course.

[01:57:32] So machinery's all in place but the guy has made his big landing. Everyone's amped for this album. Ed Sheeran goes, I got a surprise for you. He's the greatest songwriter in the world. He cucked me. He fucked my wife and she liked it. Ladies and gentlemen, Jack Malek.

[01:57:46] Right? And then he does a bunch, and one assumes this was actually filmed at a Sheeran concert because the whole crowd's there. A bunching band comes out. There's like production. They do a bunch of bits. Yes. And then he goes like. Do you like this stuff, I'm assuming?

[01:57:57] I love this stuff. It's pretty fun. I love it. And the big screen, Lily James. That's a real Danny Boyle conceit. When I saw that, I was like, as an actor, that is my nightmare to have to perform this intimate scene with all of these background actors

[01:58:17] just watching you on a massive closeup on a huge 100 foot television screen but she is so good in this movie. It works. He's a winning presence, Miss Lily James. He makes his grand plea for her love that he fucked it up, right?

[01:58:35] They cut to Gavin the train man in the audience. At first he's kind of like. Yeah, and then he's kind of just like. And then they cut to him again and he's got tears in his eyes. Yeah, he's kind of like carving his own name in his gravestone.

[01:58:45] He's like, he got me. Right, and also meanwhile his other friends are holding up a sign that says play summer song. Yeah, that's true. That's like their bit. Yeah. It's a pretty good bit. Also, rude to invite Gavin to the concert. I understand maybe.

[01:58:56] He knew what was happening. He's like, hey, you have to give me a plus one. You can not invite him. Yeah, maybe that's what it was. Trust me, three hours from now you're gonna thank me if he's not there. It's better for everyone if he's not here.

[01:59:06] But he says, I have to admit, I didn't write the songs. I didn't write it. And there's earlier scenes in the movie where he basically tries to say that he didn't write them. People are like. Right at the start and then he drops it.

[01:59:14] What are you talking about? What do you mean, right? And he is like, no, I'm gonna make the impassioned plea to make people believe me. And he goes, I didn't write them. They were written by four men. John Ball, Ringo George, yes. Right.

[01:59:25] John Lennon sitting in his cottage whenever word gets back to him. That's a fair question. Right, it's gonna go, what are you talking about? I've never written a song. When I was 13, maybe I noodled along guitar a bit. I'm out here collecting seashells. I didn't write shit.

[01:59:39] He's gonna sue Jack Malick for spreading misinformation. Wait, they're trying to. He'll join into the Anadarmus lawsuit as a side suit. They're trying to frame this like everyone goes like, holy shit, he stole it from four men. This is not gonna be the end of this media coverage.

[01:59:53] There's gonna be a news story. People are gonna try to track down these four guys who just cited. There's going to be so many stories. And then those four guys are gonna go, I never, I don't write songs. Truly. I'm a shoe salesman. Maybe my favorite part.

[02:00:04] Peace and love. Is that the audience in this stadium goes on such a roller coaster. Yes. First they boo. Then they're back in. They process this information so quickly. Yes. Their first reaction is boo. Which I don't even understand because I think no one would believe him.

[02:00:19] No, everyone would just be like, you're being weird. They would think he's having a manic episode. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. It would absolutely be TMZ cell phone footage of a really weird thing happening. All of us would be saying, hey, let's not make jokes.

[02:00:31] Clearly something's wrong with this guy. Totally. It would be very quickly right. Boo immediately. Disassociated. Yeah. We believe what you're saying, which makes no sense and we hate you right away. Then he gets to the next part about the love of his life and they essentially collectively, aw.

[02:00:48] Right, right. Then they went and back. It's true, literally James is punim. Then they're almost like angry at Lily James for almost not wanting to like. Come on, what are you doing? You better do it. He's charming. Then he announces. He conned us all.

[02:01:01] He will be uploading the songs for free. Yes, sure. At which point they cheer. And thank this great man. We love your songs again. That whole thing happens in about the course of 15 seconds. The entire audience praises it together in perfect harmony and I love that.

[02:01:19] And Richard Curtis is kind of just like you said. He's like. Yeah, done. Just vibes. British society is updated to this. Right, then they go backstage. They go to each other. Gavin comes out of the shadows. Well, I have a pretty funny perspective on this whole thing.

[02:01:32] Friend peering around the corner. She's like, don't worry, we'll probably get married. Move you over. Right, and then well they flee Kate McKinnon who's like, oh yeah. But then they get out and then there is the kind of thing that just always gets me these days.

[02:01:46] A little montage of them with their beautiful children after they have a beautiful wedding. You know, and they're playing with their cute little kids. I am fully on board with watching these two actors be in love. It is a thing that frustrates me in the movie.

[02:02:00] That it's not happening enough. That both of them are so self-defeating for so long. It'd be one thing if they're trying to make the relationship work and it's being tested by all of this. But I'm like that scene where they spend the day

[02:02:10] in Liverpool is so fucking charming. And when they're in the hotel and they start kissing, I'm like fucking hooting and hollering like David. I'm like thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Absolutely. And then for her to say, I don't wanna be a one night stand.

[02:02:25] I'm leaving right now. He wakes up, runs to her. She's like, I'm giving you one last chance but it's an ultimatum. You have to pick one or the other. I the person who have told you to prioritize your career above all else forever am now saying

[02:02:38] you have to choose these two things can't exist. Oh, you also see him, I forgot, playing Obla-de-Obladah for a bunch of school kids because he's become a teacher. And Danny Boyle goes, see? And then there's the Harry Potter joke. He both changed their minds.

[02:02:52] Which I know, I just think her behavior is pretty erratic in this one. Well because it's an insane situation that he's been put in and that she's been put in. And I think that she may have for years and years been in his corner when he was nobody

[02:03:06] and then all of a sudden when he gets this opportunity she's like well I'm not gonna be able to be a part of your life anymore. He also goes I need you to be part of my life and she goes like I can't, I'm a school teacher.

[02:03:16] Obla-de-Obladah, life goes on. That's true. Well, Obla-de-Obladah goes on. It's partially I think what inspires her to finally be like enough of this is he's now writing these love songs and she's like how am I not the one you're writing these songs about?

[02:03:30] And he's like you don't understand it's kind of just the middle of their career. It was when they excelled at. I do think that is such a good little Curtis moment. Yeah, that she's like what the fuck? Penny Lane, Eleanor Rigby, who are we talking about here?

[02:03:43] But also the end I love her of just seeing that song written on a board and being like who is the her? I think that's why she's finally like enough of this. You gotta make your move work. But he also tries to confess to her

[02:03:57] and she shuts it down. Well, she shuts it down because it's nonsense. Yes. What she liked about it was like Griffin, all my reviews I didn't write them. Jim Smith wrote them and you're like who's Jim Smith? I'm like you don't know who he is

[02:04:07] because he doesn't exist but he used to exist and only I know about him. She doesn't know that he wrote them. He would just be like what are you talking about? If you held a gun to Jim Smith's head,

[02:04:17] he would say I've never seen a movie in my life. It would just, we would not be able to further the conversation because she'd just be like I don't know what you're talking about. I'll be like well I have no proof of what I'm talking about. Yes.

[02:04:27] That would be it. Now there are the iTunes extras. No, no wait. Okay, yes, Harry Potter. Harry Potter, yes. What I'm gonna say is off that as well. Yes, in the extras they have an alternate ending. Here we go. We're rushing. I actually preferred I think. I agree.

[02:04:42] Okay, what happens in the alternate ending? In the movie as is we see that they're having their life together and he says like. He makes a Voldemort reference. He says like this is so weird. I feel like I'm Harry Potter and I just you know.

[02:04:54] Which is an incredibly trite thing to say but whatever. And he's like and now everything's supposed to go back to normal but you know. And she's like who's Harry Potter? She says who's Harry Potter. In the deleted scene in the alternate ending

[02:05:06] she is the one who makes the Harry Potter reference and he says who's Harry Potter. The exact same scene. No, I can't handle that. No, no, no, no, no, that's too much. And I love it so much. I prefer it.

[02:05:18] Because it implies that she has her own little kind of like thing that she's the only one who remembers. David is truly spinning in his chair. That's good, that's good. Tearing the yarn down. No, that makes sense. After she says this there is quite a lingering shot

[02:05:33] on her face where it almost is implied that she makes the decision to not write Harry Potter books. Like Himesh Patel does more of a nevermind where he's like I've been down this road before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. That way lies trouble.

[02:05:45] Right, she's, you and Lily James plays it very well is doing the math in her head of like I could just fucking write books. But then she's already got the life she wants so she goes back to it. I'm sorry. No, I can't handle that.

[02:05:58] Another change in the alternate ending which I actually also preferred is at the end of the movie an Ed Sheeran song plays as they're getting in the car and driving off together when they're finally like together. In the alternate ending he's in the car

[02:06:11] playing that song for her and it's Himesh Patel performing it. And it's really nice. It's beautiful. He's got a great voice. He's got a lovely voice. They're so charming. I imagine the reason they got rid of that is they didn't want to get into did he write this

[02:06:25] or did Ed Sheeran write this? It took a further logic sinkhole. So I assume that led to it being kind of on the soundtrack. No, I just cannot handle that alternate ending. Oh, I love it. David, follow me down this road for a little bit. No, I can't.

[02:06:39] I thought it was that he got hit by the bus which is why he's like somehow- But then why do the other two people remember? I just assumed that they similarly in that split second had some traumatic event that had kind of removed them from it.

[02:06:53] Here's one little director's commentary tidbit. Because he also doesn't know what the other things are. Right? Or he does know what the other, he knows what cigarettes and coke and Oasis. What happens to the director's commentary? There's one moment where I think Richard Curtis,

[02:07:06] I couldn't really tell that which is a part. That was my one shred of sanity and now you're taking off. Let's see how this hits you. I truly cannot remember the last time I've seen David be this worked up. Let's see how this hits you

[02:07:16] because I believe what Richard Curtis says, he's always asked, you know, well, why didn't you like it? Or like, what caused this? Like, what happened? What was it that caused it? And he says, like, I don't really know specifically

[02:07:30] but I always kind of thought of it as in that, cause the moment before he gets hit by the bus is that moment where Lily James is in the car and she like almost reaches out to like almost kiss him.

[02:07:41] And then you see her face kind of fall. And he says, I always thought of it as the force of her love is so strong and she wants something to change that can make them be together. Like cosmically wills that causes a global shift in reality.

[02:07:57] And yes, she's like the Scarlet Witch ultimately leads to them being together. This is a house of M situation. That is wild. Tessa, another thing left on the cutting room floor. The soundtrack for this movie, track two is Daniel Pemberton who did the score for this film.

[02:08:12] He did the score obviously mostly, you know, sort of supporting stuff to the Beatles music. I tell you what, Beatles music maybe takes front seat on this movie. I mean, they spent enough money on that one. Yeah. But Daniel Pemberton is great.

[02:08:26] Track two on the soundtrack is Daniel Pemberton's version of the universal fanfare done in the style of the Beatles. Oh, that's cute. Fanfare aficionados. I think it is incredibly well done. That's because Daniel Pemberton? Good. I don't know why they did not use this. They should have.

[02:08:48] I'm going to check that out later. It's like 15 seconds and you're just like, and it even, he does a really good job of like, it's somehow within the very limited amount of universal fanfare covers different eras of the Beatles. That's fun. Yeah. Pemberton is such a genius.

[02:09:05] He did the Steve Jobs score, obviously. He did one of my favorite movie scores that I listened to more than I've seen the movie, King Arthur, Legend of the Sword. Right, you fucking love that thing. I'll crank it after we're done recording.

[02:09:16] Do you like listen to that when you're like at the gym? Yeah, it's like pump up music. Yeah. Yeah. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, like that. It's like very big. It's like all of David's top 25 most played on iTunes

[02:09:27] is the King Arthur, Legend of the Sword. I'm going to have to add that to my list of things to check out after the episode. You absolutely must. Most important American media. Should we talk about what's next for Danny Boyle? I have one final iTunes extras moment.

[02:09:42] Did you watch the gag reel? No. Okay, so the gag reel, it's a couple minutes. It's pretty fun. Unfortunately, a lot of it in the beginning is just things falling over. Not very funny. I feel like that's not that fun.

[02:09:53] But there is one moment which was so funny and it's one of the best bits in the movie where, what is the guy's name? Rocky. His roadie friend. Joel Fry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're at the hotel concert. He's about to lead him out in front of his

[02:10:10] thousands of adoring fans and he starts to give him this emotional speech of like, up until now I kind of felt like my life had no purpose. I didn't know why I was born. But now I feel like it's to help you bring your music to everyone.

[02:10:24] And then he opens the door and says, oops, wrong door. And then leads him the other way to the crowd. Yes, funny moment. Very funny moment in the movie. And in the gag reel, it's very funny because Himesh Patel cannot keep it together

[02:10:38] during the emotional part of the speech. Because he knows what's coming. So he sees this. So Joel Fry is really trying to give him his best and he keeps laughing and he keeps being like, why are you laughing at this? And that is, to me, that's worth paying

[02:10:51] for the iTunes extra on your phone. Or you can probably find it on YouTube, I imagine. Well, it's not on, it better be on my damn Blu-ray. Two other long tail effects of this movie. On and down lawsuits number one, right?

[02:11:04] After it comes out, the writer Jack Barth went to do a bunch of interviews to talk about how he felt. You know, there was a lot of- Unsurprisingly, he did leap for his moment of fame after searching for so long. Dust kicked over that, right?

[02:11:17] So that got like a couple news cycle rotations. And then the other thing is, Deadline every year now does their like most valuable blockbusters and their biggest failings where they try to, using some sort of like anonymous data they have,

[02:11:32] tabulate for different movies what their net profit was. So it's like, you know, which movies relative to cost. Money versus cost. But they're trying to factor in all these other things like marketing and theater splits and all that sort of stuff.

[02:11:47] So they said that this film made like a $45 million profit within its original theatrical run. That's not- Tidy. Tidy, right? And they were like, it was a $40 million budget or so. With tax incentives, it was 23. It was cheap. Yeah, it played well over the world.

[02:12:04] And like this movie is probably gonna have a long tail. Right? And then like four months later, Deadline ran a story which was like, we never get these, but someone sent us the full like write down on this movie, the like classic Hollywood accounting

[02:12:18] where Universal tried to argue that this film was- Made no money. $90 million in the red. Right, right, right, right. So that they wouldn't have to pay any profits on it. And it's one of the, like this and Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

[02:12:30] or the two times those documents- That Harry Potter one is sort of a notorious one. Have basically leaked out. This is like, they were like, not since Harry Potter has one of these hit the internet. You can read it. It's pretty fascinating because it includes stuff

[02:12:40] like the way this all works where they're like, NBC Universal, the company, paid Universal Studios to distribute the film. Right. And they paid them $40 million to distribute it to be able to say, well, we made a mistake. We paid- Paid too much money, uh oh. To ourselves.

[02:12:58] To ourselves. We bought way too many TV ads on NBC. So now this company's losing money for this company. Right. The company we own that owns the billboards. We bought too many of them. Anyway. All of that shit. That doesn't even include that I spent 14.95

[02:13:13] to buy it on iTunes two days ago. And you talked them up, right? iTunes was like, we'll give it to you for 10 and you were like, higher, higher. I'm negotiating this up. I'm paying you what it's worth, right? You bought it on iTunes and immediately

[02:13:28] Himesh Patel got a call where he was like, we need you to wire us $15. Yeah. And he's like, why? And he's like, Zach Churry bought it and for some reason now you have to pay us. Yeah, exactly. For that time.

[02:13:38] I'm sorry that that happened but I had to get the extras. Yes, the extras are good. The late scenes fast. Danny Boyle's career. I'm sure he will make another film. God bless, you know, we'll see. Will he make Methuselah? Will he make Miss Saigon?

[02:13:51] Obviously he worked on Pistol. You can watch that. I would love to see him jump off of FX and back into the theater. I agree, so yes. I wanna see him make a movie about someone trying to pitch this movie in a world

[02:14:04] where the Beatles do not exist. That's what I want. That's insane. That's insane. That movie would be bleak psychological horror. That's what I want. That movie is like William Franken's book. He can return to his roots of extremely stressful psychological situations. You just cast Michael Shannon

[02:14:20] and it's about a man losing his mind. The Beatles are not really there. Obviously, yes, he's been attached to Warner Brothers Methuselah, a very long running project about a thousand year old man. It's an action movie starring Michael B. Jordan

[02:14:32] and was originally developed as a Tom Cruise vehicle about the world's oldest man. Various people have been, anyway. But look, Michael B. Jordan has the juice now. If he wants to make that movie, I'm sure. He may or may not. That could get made.

[02:14:44] There is also of course the long running rumors that he wants to make a 28 months or years later. The only other thing he's been linked to very recently is Fox Searchlight's Antarctica, which is we were texting about this. Some sort of survival against the odds type movie

[02:15:02] about a guy who ran a thousand miles across Antarctica. This has come up since we started our miniseries. Is that in the Australia cinematic universe? Well, you know what? I mean, it would be fun if there was a project to get every continent a movie. Yeah.

[02:15:17] Like we got, no, no, just you wait. You could imagine five years ago someone going to the studios and going globe cinematic universe. Listen guys, we start out with Europe. Everybody knows it. Post credits though, Africa! I don't know. Do you have-

[02:15:34] And Mr. Sigon, he does talk about a lot as sort of like, we haven't gotten the script there but I really want to do a musical. I'd love to see him do a musical. It would be bizarre. I'm not sure I want to do that one.

[02:15:42] Do you have Danny Boyle rankings? Oh, he does! Look at me, I did it in advance. I prepped it. I put up a private letter box list and I made sure my rankings were settled before I came into that. But should we play the box office game

[02:15:54] before we do that? Absolutely. I don't have Danny Boyle rankings but Yesterday is my number one. It's your number one! I'm not joking, it is definitely my number one. We're gonna read them out and so you're gonna hear all his films.

[02:16:03] I have not seen all of his films. I know, but maybe you'll think like, oh, do I like it more than that? Yeah. The answer is yes, I do like it more than that. So this film opened June 28th, 2019. Okay. It opened number three to a healthy $17 million.

[02:16:19] It ended up making 16? Yeah, it legs that out to 73. Jesus. Pretty good. And it does like 150 worldwide? 154 worldwide. And I did not even see it at that time. You know, Zach wasn't even pumping money into the fuckin' arcade machine at that point.

[02:16:35] Number one at the box office, however, in its second week is a gigantic animated sequel. Although I think it didn't make quite as much money as hoped. It is a weird case. Obviously, no one would ever talk about a Toy Story 4.

[02:16:48] The film was Toy Story 4 and it made a billion dollars. It outgrossed Toy Story 3, but the jump between two and three was so huge and the jump between one and two was so huge that I think they assumed this one will also make 30% more than the previous one.

[02:17:01] But it basically made the same amount, right? It made a tiny bit more. It was a huge hit that somehow was still seen as almost quietly a disappointment. The other thing was, the year before that was Incredibles 2, which overperformed so greatly. So they were like, these Pixar sequels

[02:17:14] are running in the bank. And it made money! Made a lot of money. What do you think of Toy Story 4? I remember liking it, but I don't have strong feelings. How do you feel about Forky? I do enjoy Forky. Forky's a good guy. He gets a turtle.

[02:17:26] I do enjoy Forky. Yeah, Forky's fun. Got my big old Forky mug over there against the wall. I've now seen Toy Story 4 several times and I really, I do like it. Lucky you. I've always liked it. Lucky you. Rewatching Toy Story 4 and finding a new appreciation for it.

[02:17:40] I feel vindicated. Vindicated I am. Number two, New This Week is a horror sequel. It is the third in this specific series, which is part of a larger universe. And so it's a sub-series. Correct. Is it third Annabelle? It's the third Annabelle, which is called. Comes Home?

[02:18:00] Annabelle Comes Home. Right. Which is weird because it's also like Annabelle 3 Conjuring 3. I mean, don't even. Tom Holland is not in that one. Even though it's in the home version. That's true. Annabelle's coming home. Spider-Man, I guess, remains far from it. He can't touch Annabelle.

[02:18:21] They should cut to you standing to the side of Annabelle's glass case saying. With like a cell phone? Do nothing. You mean. Have you seen? I think people haven't seen, no. I haven't seen Comes Home. I have seen Annabelle 1, which is fairly bad.

[02:18:35] And the second one's the Sandberg one. And I have seen Annabelle 2, Annabelle Creation, the prequel, which is pretty good. David Sandberg's a pretty good director. Yes, but it's not as good as Ouija. No. Ouija Argent of Evil, which is fantastic. Which is the, what's his name? Flanagan. Flanagan.

[02:18:52] Yeah. But it's just funny that there are two prequels within these sort of silly horror franchises that were both made by kind of like slightly elevated horror directors that are better than the movies around. Where that was their launch pad. Yes, and Annabelle Creation, that's the Sandberg movie.

[02:19:07] That's the one with like Anthony LaPaglia running an orphanage. Sure. It's just so funny that like, I think people who haven't seen any of these movies don't realize she's not like Megan or Chucky. She doesn't move. She sits in a glass case and bad things happen.

[02:19:22] Annabelle never like gets out and is possessed and does shit. No, she's always just kind of there. She's just there. She's just in a glass case. I've never seen her go like. Maybe sometimes they look over and she's sitting in a different place. But she never moves.

[02:19:37] And which franchise did that spin off of? Conjuring. In Conjuring 1, she's in the basement and they're like, we dealt with her. Woo! You do not want to open that fucking case. They talk about that as like their worst case.

[02:19:49] And then Annabelle Comes Home is about them getting her. Annabelle Comes, well Annabelle 1 is about that case. And Annabelle Comes Home is the prequel. And of course, as we always have to point out, the real Annabelle is just a raggedy and all. Just a raggedy and all.

[02:20:07] It's just a raggedy and all. But it is a real doll and it is in the Warren Spooky Connecticut Museum of Crap. Wait, really? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And she really is in a case and it really does say do not open.

[02:20:17] For Megan and Wilson are in Come Home. They are in both movies. But I think like not main characters. They pop up in both. Yeah. You know, it's a pop-up. I get it, it's a pop-up. Number three, Yesterday. Number four is a Disney remake.

[02:20:32] Should have been number one, sorry. Is it Aladdin? It's Aladdin. Another quick bill for Disney. Right, yeah, it's true. Just, just. Just racking them up. I mean this was the year where it was like. It was like this is gonna work. Oh, it worked.

[02:20:45] Right, and then they had Star Wars at the end of the. They had like five billion dollar movies in this one year. Number five. Frozen 2 was the same year too. It was like insane. They had a mermaid. Number five animated sequel. This was the year that caused us

[02:20:57] for when people replay the clips. To say it's all gonna end. Why is it all ending? Why is Disney releasing every big sequel this year? Anyway, whatever, go on. Number five animated sequel. I just hate talking about this movie. You hate this movie?

[02:21:08] I know, I hate it coming up with a box office game because I'm bored of it. I don't care. It's an animated sequel, it's Illumination. Who cares? Who cares? It's from Illumination. Secret Life of Pets 2? Exactly. Why are you so. I'm sick of talking about it. Well you.

[02:21:23] Secret Life of Pets 2. You say this like it's coming up all the time. It's always coming up. When? I don't know, anytime we do a movie for around now. I think we just did our Men in Black International. Oh that's what it is. Because that's number six. Okay.

[02:21:35] Then Avengers Endgame is seven. Okay. You got Child's Play. Another insane Disney two billion dollars. You got Child's Play, the remake without Mancini. So this Annabelle kinda underperformed a little bit. Did it outgrow. It was opening 20s. Remake Chucky? You split the doll vote. That's the thing. Yeah.

[02:21:53] They kinda might have fucked each other. It's opening a week after Chucky. Yeah. Well that's the thing also. You know he's not Chucky in that movie, right? That was the weird split of the rights. I can't talk about this with you. He's not Chucky, his name's Buddy.

[02:22:05] Well he's not Chucky in the originals. His name is like Buddy Good Guy or something. Right, right. And then Chucky is the serial possessing. He's a good guy doll. Chucky is the Charles Lee, is like the villain himself. Right. So the weird split of the rights

[02:22:20] is that Don Mancini owns Chucky. And MGM owned Child's Play. So this movie is about, it's Megan. It's an AI doll. Fascinating. I hate it. It's not possessed. It's an AI doll named Buddy. Number nine. Yeah. Is a film that Zach already referenced

[02:22:33] that I'm a fan of and I think you're a fan of. Okay. Rocketman. Oh yes, I thought, Harlem Williams, I thought, did Disney re-release it this year? No, Rocketman is very, I wasn't making a joke. I got confused. Harlem Williams too busy recording endless episodes

[02:22:46] of Puppy Dog Pals that I have to watch. Disney did a live action Rocketman. They did. Bringing it back. State of the art ILM. Yeah, right, motion capture. Stage craft. No, it's the charming Elton John. Do you like Rocketman? Yes, I loved it. Very pro-Rocketman.

[02:23:03] And then number 10, John Wick Chapter Three. The best, Parabellum. Parabellum. Yeah. And that was what was doing at the box office in that glorious summer of 2019. I went to see this film with Emma Stefansky at the Tribeca Film Festival. I don't remember it well.

[02:23:19] We went to Mudville Nine afterwards, which I believe closed during the pandemic. No, it's still open. Well, Humblebrag. I want to end this episode because we've already taken up enough of Zach's time that he missed his showing of Dungeons and Dragons on our main feed.

[02:23:32] You got to catch the seven o'clock or whatever. Sorry, Zach. Boil list. Do you want to go first? No, you go first. Down to up? Whatever you want. Whatever you think. What do we usually do? I don't know. Ben, what do we usually do?

[02:23:46] You usually go bottom up. Okay, bottom up. Okay. Bottom of the list for me? Or no. It's never consistent. It's never consistent, so it doesn't matter. Bottom of the list. So do whatever you want. You want to do this. Middle out. Middle out compression.

[02:23:58] You want to do it. I know what you're going to do. Just do it. Number 13 for you. It's, no, that's not what I want to do. Oh, okay. Fair enough. Number 13, lucky number 13, Life Less Ordinary. Wow, yeah. Right at the bottom for you. My apologies, number 12 yesterday.

[02:24:16] That's what I thought you were about to do. No, I wasn't going to do it. I apologize. I hope we can remain friends. I'm just stewing over here. I hope we can remain friends. My father still wants to take you out to dinner. Number 11? Slumdog Millionaire. Wow!

[02:24:28] It's really low. I don't even hate it, but truly, I know he said this in the re-watch, it just did nothing for me. Okay, what's 10? Trance. Yeah. Compellingly weird. Keep going, nine. Millions. Here, eight. Shallow Grave. Eighth, wow, okay, keep going. Seven. Da Beach. Okay, six. 127 hours.

[02:24:49] Yeah, you like that one? I have not seen that one. Didn't even know that was a boil. This is what I mean. Who knows, this guy does everything. Five. Go ahead. T2, Trainspotting. Yeah. Which- A secret winner. And has jumped up in the three days

[02:25:03] since we recorded that episode. Oh, you thought, yeah. It was at six, it went right up to the top five. Number four, 28 Days Later. Yep. David, congratulations. Number three, Steve Jobs. I'm happy you made it that high. Good job, Steve. It would have, without a rewatch,

[02:25:22] been bottom three for me, no question. I was so sour on it the first time. Sorry, which Steve Jobs? He did the- He did the Fassbender. The Fassbender one, not the Ashton Kutcher one. It would be really funny if it was the Ashton Kutcher one

[02:25:33] and I had told you before. The Fassbender one is the Sorkin- Correct. Got you. Yeah, number two on my ranking, Jobs. The Ashton Kutcher movie. I just included it. No, it's, well what is it? Number two is Trainspotting. Which means of course that number one is Darkman.

[02:25:51] Very good, yes. My number one is Sunshine. Yeah, there you go. Can I say, well no, you do your list and then I'll say this. Number 13 Yesterday, I'm sorry, Zach, don't get mad at me. I like all his movies. I mean, everyone's allowed to be wrong.

[02:26:04] I like all his movies. And maybe this one will rise for me. This has actually been a very pleasant conversation about it. I really did have a nice time with it. Zach's one of the kindest men in the world. Number 12, Trance. Number 11, A Lifeless Ordinary.

[02:26:14] Those are certainly, those three are kind of just like in the kind of like mixed bag territory for me. Yes. What's up, Ben? Just, wow. Okay. Well then I put Trance over it. Yeah. Wow, you guys are really making me feel like a bully. Yeah, come on.

[02:26:29] I don't know, I have a lot of problems with this movie. Why don't cigarettes exist? I'm not even sure either of you watched the movie. I watched it! You want me to call my wife right now? I got the 4K. There was no steel bar.

[02:26:40] I got the 4K, you sound like Tim Blaine Nelson. Look at the O. I just shot him pointing at him. Look at the O. Number 10, The Beach. Yeah. Number nine, Millions. Number eight, 127 Hours. Number seven, Slumdog Millionaire. I have a little more respect for it.

[02:26:55] Number six, T2 Train Spotting. Number five, Shallow Grave. Four, 28 Days Later. Three, Train Spotting. Two, Sunshine. One, Steve Jobs, I have to listen to my heart. Steve Jobs number one. Yeah. That was close though, this top two. Yeah. And sorry, where does Yesterday rank with the alternate ending?

[02:27:13] Oh, that would put it in a new terrifying zone. It's number would be some elder troon that's on fire. I'll say this Zach, watching the deleted scenes, I was like, there is possibly a version of this movie that I'd bump up. Right, there's a movie you prefer

[02:27:29] in the alternate cut. I get why they smoothed it all out. Yeah, I was like just get all the decisions they made. Just vibes. Yeah, vibes. Give me the vibes. You're the producer who when they're running these, you're just like vibes, man. Make the vibe-iest choice.

[02:27:44] What are you looking up Griffin? I want to pull this up, because we were just obviously so. He's bringing up his apology letter that he's written me up. Right, there's no tap. Yeah. He's screenshotting it, he's gonna tweet it out. We were obviously very,

[02:27:57] just very gung ho pro Sunshine in our episode. I did love Sunshine to be clear. And we were like, anyone who doesn't like the ending is stupid, right? And then I saw some people on the Reddit be like, can you at least explain why you liked the ending?

[02:28:11] Even if you're gonna argue that it works, can you explain it? And then one Redditor I just thought fucking nailed it. And I've been sitting on this since the episode came out. Where I'm like, I wish I had said this, okay? Go ahead. Big moment.

[02:28:24] 226 upvotes from death underscore mullet. My argument when it comes to the ending is that when you think about the theme of mental health survival and Christian fascist proselytization, the last third isn't so much quote unquote devolving into a slasher as it's more humanity meeting with its final obstacle,

[02:28:41] a version of itself so imbued with zealotry, it turns against all notions of self preservation or hope for the collective. It's pretty much perfect. That is my feeling is that the ending is a literalization of the themes that have been there the entire time.

[02:28:54] So whereas for some people, it feels like a wild swing in terms of genre reality. I'm like, it's the escalation of a movie in which humanity keeps on failing to rewrite the rules of its universe. I'm all for that. That's just terrific.

[02:29:06] And literally the same could be said about the ending of yesterday. I don't really know. I would not be surprised if I found out that Pinbacker was a producer on yesterday. That's all I'm gonna say. That too, when he gives the record label, he's just like,

[02:29:20] I am God. The sun is your only boss. One man only. Here comes the sun. I love that song you have about what a good day, sunshine. Oh my God. Danny Boyle, I think it's been a July for us to cover. I've just liked the swings and roundabouts.

[02:29:40] It's been a fun ride. Hey, let's say what's happening next. I was about to tell you. You gotta set it up. David's had his choice. Let's, yeah, let's say what the next series is gonna be. Ben is holding up an intertitle card

[02:29:56] that says the films of Buster Keaton. Hey, you guys already guessed it basically. My guy, I've wanted to do for a very long time. Here's what we're doing. It is the run of films that he directed, Buster Keaton Productions,

[02:30:10] with his first two MGM films tacked on at the end. It's going to be double banger episodes because his films are very short. They're short. So next week, with no break. Going straight in. We have Three Ages and Our Hospitality. Our hospitality. Three Ages and Our Hospitality.

[02:30:30] Three Ages and Our Hospitality. And then we're gonna be doing Sherlock Jr. and The Navigator, Seven Chances and Go West, Battling Butler and the General, College and Scene by Bill Jr. And then The Cameraman and Spite Marriage. Those are the first two MGM movies.

[02:30:42] But those are the films that he either directed or sort of goes direct. That are long enough to qualify as. Sap House, Sap House. The Sap Head is his first feature film, but he did not direct that. We're not including that.

[02:30:55] We're starting with, as you said, Three Ages, which is his first directorial credit. Now, important to note. I've seen some people when they saw it, or started to surmise that perhaps we were doing this. Oh, are these movies gonna be so hard to watch? Hey, guess what?

[02:31:12] These movies are public domain. They are the easiest movies to watch. They're on YouTube. We have ever covered on this podcast. But they're also all collected quite nicely on the Criterion Collection. The Criterion Collection right now has like basically a near complete run of Buster Keaton

[02:31:26] in really good transfers. The thing that obviously changes is the transfers, the color timing, where for some of the films they're tinted even though they're in black and white. The scores, those things can be trademarked. But Criterion has a really good collection

[02:31:39] including basically his entire surviving short film. Right. Collection. And we're going to do an episode with a bunch of those short films with the great Dana Stevens, who of course wrote Cameraman, the Buster Keaton book. So that will be happening on Patreon.

[02:31:54] But those will be the Buster Keaton episodes. And it's going to be fun. It's gonna be fun. Let's all laugh. Please don't be daunted by the fact that we're doing silent films from the 30s. I want everyone to like this. It'll be fun. It'll be fun.

[02:32:09] Do you want to get a player piano in the studio? Absolutely. I do want to get a X-Men versus Street Fighter arcade cabinet. Well, we could talk about that. I've had some thoughts. Oh, okay, fair enough. I think you should experiment with the medium and do silent episodes.

[02:32:24] God, that sounds easy. I'm really in on that. Let's do that. That's a great idea. We should do silent cuts on Patreon. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like the way we did the version of the They Live episode. Yeah, which got mostly just people posting in the Reddit,

[02:32:39] what is this and what is going on? I don't understand. Every week on Patreon, we should post the silent cut and it should be the exact same runtime as our main feed episode, but with no audio. All right. Good. I think that's good. Funny. I think that's good.

[02:32:56] Zach, you are a prince among men. Thank you. There's people out there on the planet. Hey, love that. You know what, Zach? We exist in a world of bitter, angry, jealous people in this industry. Everyone's angling, trying to get one over on the other person,

[02:33:13] trying to get the big job. Sure. I can think of very few people where this is the case. I do not know a single person who is not thrilled for your success. That's nice to hear. In our world of like bitter comedy people.

[02:33:27] They don't know that I stole all my performances from the Beatles. Well. That's true. And you have to, are you going to confess it now? Yes. In front of everybody? Yes. You're going to put your wife on a big screen behind you?

[02:33:38] I'll be releasing all my bits for free. In the timeline you're from that only you remember, the Beatles were the best Herald team of all time and you saw all of their parodies on Herald Night and I haven't memorized them. Yeah. But you're the best.

[02:33:53] Severance is coming out sometime. Season two, but go watch season one. The Great American Baking Show. Yes. Yeah. The main season will also come out sometime. Check that out. But the holiday special is available. Cool. That's pretty much it.

[02:34:10] And hey, I got a thing I want to plug. You coming back on the show again. Oh yeah. Keep your eyes peeled. Yeah. Cause we've got to make up for lost time. Yeah. Come back anytime. I'll do yesterday again. That's fine. You come on again for yesterday.

[02:34:26] Thank you for being here. Yeah, it was great. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show. Thank you to AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing,

[02:34:40] Lane Montgomery in The Great American Novel for our theme song, JJ Burt for our research, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including links to our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features

[02:34:57] where we do film series such as Planet of the Apes and stuff like the Buster Keaton short films we just talked about. Tune in next week for Three Ages in Our Hospitality and as always in this universe, do cigars exist? What song are you going to sing? No.

[02:35:26] Riff. I don't want to. Don't do it. Do whatever you want. She loves you, yeah. But you know, she podcasts too, yeah.